To support mains: when ap carry bot becomes viable, here is how to support one:

Dasdi96·Apr 30, 2018·2 votes·1,469 views

So you go into a game I pick a mage like to carry, please do not rage and call me a troll just because you are so used to only supporting adcs. Here are some tips: 1: champion picks I, a mage synergize with many picks including most tank supports, poke supports, and some enchanter supports. However, please don't pick as your shield will be extremely inefficient. Also, I don't benefit as much from your ult because it usually pushes the enemy I am bursting away from me. 2: laning phase Don't go aggressive until I hit at least level 3. This is because we need all of our basic abilities to be able to fight, and our auto attacks are generally weak. So please don't be mad if I don't follow up on your level 2 engage. However, at level 6, we should be more aggressive as my ult is usually stronger than an adc ult. 3: teamfighting Just peel for me as you would with an adc.

17 Comments

Shukr4nApr 30, 20185 votes

WHEN adc will be still bot with its support and will get fed on you, dont start blaming support about how it is useless and incompetent.

remember this

AptestApr 30, 20183 votes

To future bot mage mains: here is how to play with a support.

As you are probably not used to playing with a support on bot lane, here is a short guide on how to play with one:

Your job is to eat your CS, develop your champion's build, and when asked you heel, sit, or roll over.

OleandervineApr 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

However, please don't pick as your shield will be extremely inefficient. Also, I don't benefit as much from your ult because it usually pushes the enemy I am bursting away from me. ... 3: teamfighting Just peel for me as you would with an adc.

So do you want peel or do you not want peel? It's difficult for Janna to NOT work well with pretty much any champion, and claiming that her peeling for you is bad, followed by a point specifically requesting that the support peel do not make sense. And a shield is not more efficient on an ADC than a mage. Not dying as any squishy because of a shield is always important. And Janna has loads of slows and CC, things which help incredibly immobile mages like Annie, Veigar, and Cassiopeia.

Dasdi96Apr 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So do you want peel or do you not want peel? It's difficult for Janna to NOT work well with pretty much any champion, and claiming that her peeling for you is bad, followed by a point specifically requesting that the support peel do not make sense. And a shield is not more efficient on an ADC than a mage. Not dying as any squishy because of a shield is always important.

There are other support champions that provide peel. Janna has horrible synergy with anyone that isn't an adc.

OleandervineApr 30, 20182 votes

No she doesn't. Her Q knocks up enemies, her W slows them, and her E is one of the strongest shields on a short cooldown. Her ult also is one of the most powerful peel tools in the game. She works wonderfully with any champion simply because she can help close some of their weak points, like say, a short range mage's inability to catch up to an enemy that is fleeing.

HethaleanApr 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No she doesn't. Her Q knocks up enemies, her W slows them, and her E is one of the strongest shields on a short cooldown. Her ult also is one of the most powerful peel tools in the game. She works wonderfully with any champion simply because she can help close some of their weak points, like say, a short range mage's inability to catch up to an enemy that is fleeing.

A lot of the power budget of Janna shield is in the AD that it gives. That's what I think that person is saying.

EleshakaiApr 30, 20182 votes

However, smart mage players still do regular attacks. And thus that damage is still not lost. They won't get quite as many such attacks, but for a SMART mage player, it will still be beneficial and thus... not inefficient. Additionally, a not-insignificant portion of early-game mage poke comes from auto-attacks.

HethaleanApr 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

However, smart mage players still autoattack. And thus that damage is still not lost. They won't get quite as many auto-attacks, but for a SMART mage player, it will still be beneficial and thus... not inefficient.

I mean... that's still inefficient. I can still dig a 4 foot radius pit for a fire pit in my backyard with a spoon. It will work. It still has some use. It's just inefficient when comparing doing so with a shovel. Things can still provide utility but also be inefficient at it. Another example, an old school ox and plow vs an industrial Big Bud 525 with a 21 bottom plow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcXEOjdjJP4)

The part where Janna's shielding is inefficient is that it is tuned/balanced towards putting it on people who use AD scaling, and probably have AS bonuses to attack more. Thus, when using it on someone who doesn't scale with AD, and doesn't have more AS to attack more during the duration. Those users will not maximize the bonus... That's kind of the definition of inefficient. It still applies more damage through AA's, but not nearly as much so on an AD user. Thus mages are an inefficient user of the AD bonus of Janna shield. They do not itemize to maximize their use of it.

EleshakaiApr 30, 20182 votes

Let's be real here, Janna's shield doesn't last very long late-game, so the AD is gone pretty quickly, so the benefit of damage lategame is mostly pretty small.

The primary damage benefit is in early trades... so early game, there's not that much of a difference between an ADC and an APC in attack speed. A bit, but not huge. So the number of attacks you'll get before the shield breaks is probably pretty similar. So the actual raw benefit an ADC or an APC gets from the damage component of a Janna shield is pretty similar, unless you also have AD ratio abilities that hit while the shield is up... and to me, that seems more like a benefit of coordination than a lack of synergy.

HethaleanApr 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Let's be real here, Janna's shield doesn't last very long late-game, so the AD is gone pretty quickly, so the benefit of damage lategame is mostly pretty small.

The primary damage benefit is in early trades... so early game, there's not that much of a difference between an ADC and an APC in attack speed. A bit, but not huge. So the number of attacks you'll get before the shield breaks is probably pretty similar. So the actual raw benefit an ADC or an APC gets from the damage component of a Janna shield is pretty similar, unless you also have AD ratio abilities that hit while the shield is up... and to me, that seems more like a benefit of coordination than a lack of synergy.

For late game, that's most certainly true. As for early, it might be a tighter difference actually. But with things like Doran's Blade (3% lifesteal might net you a few HP over a few attacks from the bonus AD) or if they got a Fleet Footwork proc off that's another 3-12 HP (depending on your rank of E ignoring AP cuz i'm lazy atm) Those small advantages start adding up. Especially on some of the bully ADCs like Lucian, MF, or Jhin. It's hard to say. I wasn't trying to say the OP was right in saying "extremely inefficient". I don't think the small advantages will add up enough to make it not worthwhile to bring Janna with an AP. Especially since Janna right now maxes W I think, and she bullies in lane which synergizes well with an AP I think.

KhristophorosApr 30, 20182 votes

If AP carries are ever common in bot lane it's going to depend a lot more on champion synergy. There is no generalizing how the support should play. It depends on the specific AP carry being played.