They took old nidalee, which they said was "toxic design" and made a new champion completely based on a single nuke, except this time it's aoe and she also has a cc to guarantee she lands it.
MOuHahaHAhahaaaa63 votesshe fails all her spells but kills you... skilled and powerfull !
MythPuppy22 votesYou sure you haven't confused zoe with zed?
Barcid25 votesAre those different champions? I can't tell because I die so fast I never get to see who actually killed me nowadays.
Velzard of Koz3 votesOne of them laughs darkly when killing you, the other psychopatically. That's how I tell the difference.
Crescent Dusk2 votesYou sure you haven't confused zoe with zed?
Zed and Zoe are basically cousins, thing is most people would rather exploit Zoe (easier to teamfight with) so they ban Zed since he straight up hardcounters Zoe.
3TWarrior2 votesaren't there only two reasons he hardcounters her?
AD items have most effects
and two, he's more mobile and less resource based than she is
Crescent Dusk4 votesaren't there only two reasons he hardcounters her?
AD items have most effects
and two, he's more mobile and less resource based than she is
He hard counters her because if she ever gets within 650 range of the minion wave he WEQ's her and with electrocute that's 60% of her health gone.
He hardcounters her because he can use any of his shadows to juke her bubble.
And he hardcounters her because by lv6 his ult allows him to WEQ, port on top of her after she's slowed by shadow E, and ult when she tries to sleepy trouble bubble him. No mage can peel a well working Zed's burst.
It's why Ahri will ban a Zed but not a Talon because her ult lets her easily kite Talon and most mages outrange Talon's Q and will only get hit by first part of rake (so he can't combo them), but in the case of Zed he has a retarded range of 650, a way faster burst combo with the shadow, and he can ult, do an E>auto>ignite and shadow out and gets a guaranteed kill without having to stay in melee range.
Zed has way too much damage for the range he has and the amount of escapes he has compared to other assassins.
Then there's also the fact AD assassins get the luxury of longsword+ 3 pots and resolve whereas mages will only have 2 pots ever and resolve hurts Zoe far more than it hurts Zed since Zed's poke is so frequently available (6 sec cd shuriken is ridiculous).
Arakadia6 votesSee making up lies like this is why the boards has low credibility.
Daedric Etwahl19 votesIt's not even a lie this time, though. Zoe can completely whiff her Q and E but then proceed to kill you with her W bolts and passive autos. How is that fair?
And it does happen, it even happens here at 2:59
I dont like railing so hard against other champs, since they all have their fans, but... Zoe is not okay. They gutted her two months or so after her release to figure out what they wanted to do with her, and I'm sure they would have done it sooner were it not for the holiday break.
Crimson Zeppelin3 votes[{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U757H4h9,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2018-08-01T03:15:25.637+0000)
It's not even a lie this time, though. Zoe can completely whiff her Q and E but then proceed to kill you with her W bolts and passive autos. How is that fair?
And it does happen, it even happens here at 2:59
I dont like railing so hard against other champs, since they all have their fans, but... Zoe is not okay. They gutted her two months or so after her release to figure out what they wanted to do with her, and I'm sure they would have done it sooner were it not for the holiday break.
LMAO That is not even near a one-shot. ANY champion can kill a overextended yasuo that is sitting in front of tower. GIven more than 3 seconds! Hyperbole bias to the extreme. The screeeching never ends!
Daedric Etwahl25 votesI never said oneshot though... It's not a oneshot, NOBODY said oneshot.
It's the fact that Zoe missed ALL of her spells and yet still gets how many passive autos, and the bolts from her W.
She's a mage, that missed ALL of her skillshots, but nah, it's fine, her overloaded kit still lets her get the kill anyway, only this time it's not skillshots, it's undodgeable.
Here's another example, all over the thread, of Zoe missing all of her skillshots but it's okay, she's got loads of targeted damage and free summoner spells, she worked really hard for it so she deserves the kill /s
The Great Guava2 votesDude just ban her.
Crimson Zeppelin2 votes[{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U757H4h9,comment-id=00050001000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-01T05:39:34.003+0000)
I never said oneshot though... It's not a oneshot, NOBODY said oneshot.
It's the fact that Zoe missed ALL of her spells and yet still gets how many passive autos, and the bolts from her W.
She's a mage, that missed ALL of her skillshots, but nah, it's fine, her overloaded kit still lets her get the kill anyway, only this time it's not skillshots, it's undodgeable.
Here's another example, all over the thread, of Zoe missing all of her skillshots but it's okay, she's got loads of targeted damage and free summoner spells, she worked really hard for it so she deserves the kill /s
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
So, basically she misses one skillshot and is forced to lose? What sort of champion is this? Are you not mistaking Zoe for full ap Nunu?
This is season 8 where ANYONE can pull this off.
Daedric Etwahl16 votesShe missed two skillshots.
Which is all of them.
She misses all of her skillshots but then still wins the fight because her passive and W fo way too much damage on top of being given free summoner spells.
If you're a skillshot champion,and you miss all of your skillshots? Yeah, you lose. That's pretty much been the rule. Except Zoe gets a pass because shes CertainlyT's baby.
That's like if Veigar missed his Q and W, but then pressed R on you and literally 100-0 you with it from full health. And that does not happen, unless the Veigar is like 40/0 or the game has gone on for like 80 minutes.
Crimson Zeppelin3 votes[{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U757H4h9,comment-id=0005000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-08-01T07:31:18.557+0000)
She missed two skillshots.
Which is all of them.
She misses all of her skillshots but then still wins the fight because her passive and W fo way too much damage on top of being given free summoner spells.
If you're a skillshot champion,and you miss all of your skillshots? Yeah, you lose. That's pretty much been the rule. Except Zoe gets a pass because shes CertainlyT's baby.
That's like if Veigar missed his Q and W, but then pressed R on you and literally 100-0 you with it from full health. And that does not happen, unless the Veigar is like 40/0 or the game has gone on for like 80 minutes.
And Jhin dies missing Q and W and not even expending 4th shot, expended stormrazors shot and is supposed to even with a burst mage 1 level higher? If I was on Qt's team I would have spammed pinged him off. She did not miss her empowered auto, her orbs, or her ignite or redemption or electrocute. Do you know how much damage ignite and electrocute does with a level ahead? It is more of a QUARTER of a enemy's health.
But well maybe his teams 0/6 berserker greaves rush 7 death Yasuo IN 14 MINS that fed the 6 kill Kled and abandoned top who forced QT to go top in the first place was probably more in focus to his teammates to ping off because that really looks like a boosted baboon that was let loose there.
Ayzev6 votes[{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U757H4h9,comment-id=000500010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-01T07:06:27.943+0000)
This is season 8 where ANYONE can pull this off.
[{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U757H4h9,comment-id=00050001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-01T07:54:52.721+0000)
She did not miss her empowered auto, her orbs, or her ignite or redemption or electrocute. Do you know how much damage ignite and electrocute does with a level ahead? It is more of a QUARTER of a enemy's health.
You're saying these things as if they weren't problems.
An explanation is not a justification.
Crimson Zeppelin5 votesYou're saying these things as if they weren't problems.
An explanation is not a justification.
I propose several changes to the whole game to counter this.
When these stuff were in the previous game, picking burst mages had a legit RISK. They should be back NOW.
Iręlía20 votesAnd yet its not "healthy" that Old Skarner would stick to one or MAYBE two people with perma slow, yet they let 
, who has been a top tier mid champ for a couple years now, can perma slow an entire team.
Time to revert Skarner but give him a new ultimate. Its too strong to have or balance around. His kit is bad because they chose to balance him around a flash ult mechanic.
I had a great idea here, check it out if you want: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/a56AYcub-riot-im-pouring-my-heart-out-for-skarner-on-this-one
BLIGHTBRINGER6 votesBut skarners ultimate ability is pretty core to his character than the rest of his abilities, and it's what makes Skarner unique, him having the ability to grab something and pull them away.
Moons of Jupiter6 votesAnd yet its not "healthy" that Old Skarner would stick to one or MAYBE two people with perma slow, yet they let
Time to revert Skarner but give him a new ultimate. Its too strong to have or balance around. His kit is bad because they chose to balance him around a flash ult mechanic.
I had a great idea here, check it out if you want: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/a56AYcub-riot-im-pouring-my-heart-out-for-skarner-on-this-one
He can slow an entire team with an item, not as part of his kit. Any CC will stop it, and also so will staying out of his star ring. Also, he has been given at least one mini rework in order to remove some power. His win rate at the time of the rework wasn't even outrageous. It was the same as Ahri's normally is, except Ahri has a consistently huge player base.
Crescent Dusk2 votesAnd yet its not "healthy" that Old Skarner would stick to one or MAYBE two people with perma slow, yet they let
Time to revert Skarner but give him a new ultimate. Its too strong to have or balance around. His kit is bad because they chose to balance him around a flash ult mechanic.
I had a great idea here, check it out if you want: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/a56AYcub-riot-im-pouring-my-heart-out-for-skarner-on-this-one
Asol is only top tier mid because he can snowball bottom. He loses 1v1 against most meta midlaners, can't split push at all, and against aggressive roamers like Khazix/Rengar/Xinzhao/Lee Sin he risks a lot when he roams. Not to mention that currently Zed, Ekko, and Talon are incredibly busted as well (and Fizz will be too come 8.15) and they all shit on him in lane, and in the case of Ekko/Talon can match his roams and kill him in the jungle (Zed can too once he gets 1-2 full items as his clear is also strong).
He's not strong himself, he just caters to a snowball meta where getting a bot fed early is all that matters. It doesn't matter how fed a midlaner gets because if their bot lane loses then the game is lost anyways.
F Ù Ń19 votesI’m getting really annoyed by people who backlash against Zoe. Her kit is FULL OF SKILLSHOTS. Dodgeable, learn the character, take advantage of her flaws. LeBlanc has been doing the job of Zoe since Season 4. Zoe has no escape. Leblanc can BURST AND DELETE YOU, AND RUN AWAY LIKE THERE’S NO TOMORROW. If you’re simply too lazy to try and DODGE skillshots, then just build MR!
EvilUnicornLord10 votesIt's kind of hard to dodge skillshots when you're asleep.
And considering the aoe on her bubble thing and how just grazing it inevitably makes you fall asleep, it's pretty hard to avoid that.
ChaddyFantome8 votesIt's kind of hard to dodge skillshots when you're asleep.
TO fall asleep, you had to have not dodged the skillshot tpo begin with....
And considering the aoe on her bubble thing and how just grazing it inevitably makes you fall asleep, it's pretty hard to avoid that.
unlike other forms of CC, Sleep has a delay that gives you a window to reposition before you can't move.
EvilUnicornLord4 votesYes, you didn't dodge this skillshot https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/kE3X_hl5AIcKJOnV1Rb_G6WsyrY=/0x0:747x460/1200x800/filters:focal(366x174:484x292)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/58925549/chrome_2018_03_06_13_01_45.0.png Which is slightly smaller than Viktor's stun or Soraka's snare, except that getting out of it won't save you from the hard CC.
And Zoe can just wait for you to fall asleepl before attacking you (that's kind of how that works). You could use a dash ability (assuming you even have one) to get away from her (and risk taking even more damage from her nuke because of that obnoxious "range=power" gimmick).
I won't say she's the worst champion in League and has absolutely zero counterplay so she should be deleted from the game entirely, that's stupid. But to say she's perfectly balanced is a misguided comment at best.
ModAcademy Kayn2 votesI mean, if you've dodged the Skillshot, you're more than likely to not get hit by the Pool that's leftover. You can easily get away before then (and they even nerfed it, so it's a lot less likely to pop from 'grazing' it.)
Anin77710 votesDodge, you say? : https://clips.twitch.tv/EnchantingDullYamKappaClaus
rtbf2234347212 votesI bet you thought I needed to land my abilities to kill you
The line said by the 
player in the end of the video is hilarious.
[sg-miss-fortune]
Baikenn14 votesriot's existence is toxic
ChaddyFantome13 votestired of the Nid comparison because it isn't accurate. Nid's problem is she had that all on a SINGLE SPELL, on top of having 5 other abilities that were all great. Half of Zoe's kit exists just to achieve similar results to what Nid Q did alone, and it still requires more commitment and setup and puts her more at risk when doing so.
Nid had no reason to not throw Qs out on CD. Zoe requires she blow her Ulti and Q and coordinate it all in a precise manner to hit someone with it.
WrÆth7 votesMy main issue with Zoe is that she can miss half her abilities and then auto you to death from full hp.A burst mage shouldn’t win extended fights after missing her entire conbo.
BlackEyesBlue4 votesMy main issue with Zoe is that she can miss half her abilities and then auto you to death from full hp.A burst mage shouldn’t win extended fights after missing her entire conbo.
If she missed her entire combo then why didn't you do something while her kit was all on cool down hmmm? :P
Crimson Zeppelin5 votesIf she missed her entire combo then why didn't you do something while her kit was all on cool down hmmm? :P
"Missing all her skills." I think there is a BIG mistake that is spread towards the community. The thing is technically, if you put ignite on the enemy, you will 100% proc a passive auto and W orbs which CANNOT miss. A meta with no MR nor exhaust really sucks.
Aram Mama 6 votesCan riot admit that
zoegamewasis a complete fucking failureof a championin this season?
Crimson Zeppelin5 votes[{quoted}](name=Aram Mama ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U757H4h9,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2018-08-01T17:56:19.380+0000)
This is pretty much it. This entire season is a cheese meta. Resistance is non-existant and you just point and click your spells and they die.
Talon, wukong. Zoe, J4 represented this very clearly.
Wild Geese6 votesThey were wrong about Nidalee, and Zoe is a correction of their mistake. Zoe is awesome! She is a ton of fun to play, and playing her is unlike anything else in the game! If it's fun to play and unique that's called a smashing SUCCESS. She's more fun than like 90% of the roster so I'd place her in the top 10% of best designs
KFCeytron4 votesTo answer the question in the title, no, Riot cannot admit that a champion was a failure. They couldn't even do so for Quinn, whom they fully admitted was rushed out the door to meet an arbitrary deadline as soon as it hit an arbitrary quality standard, even though that standard was out of date.
iTaLenTZ4 votesAnd she can win lanes by RNG summoners or items showing up
QsoloPro3 votesThat is an untrue statement, she's not a complete failure, she's wildly successful at being a completely broken and unbalanced champ, which if you look at ritos lates releases is exactly what they're aiming for. I think they just said "fuck it, if we can't fix this game we'll just break it".
Netorare2 votesRiot can easily rework her W and remove the zoning from her E but if you still cant beat her after then u are bad at dodging skillshots. Teemo used to be the most hated champ but people learned how to play against him, but now people are becoming shittier and shittier at the game and gave up on learning how to play against certain champs... But i guess this is another zoe circlejerk...
Crimson Zeppelin7 votesRiot can easily rework her W and remove the zoning from her E but if you still cant beat her after then u are bad at dodging skillshots. Teemo used to be the most hated champ but people learned how to play against him, but now people are becoming shittier and shittier at the game and gave up on learning how to play against certain champs... But i guess this is another zoe circlejerk...
Back in the old days we had to use our brains and FULL teampower to counter LEGIT uncounterable stuff. Real BS like full AP Sion, Poppy, Ap Yi or Tryndamere, juggermaw, Sword of the divine rengar or feral flare. Players have become soft.
Leetri2 votesAP Sion is one of the very few champions I've done a legit one-shot with, as in only using a single ability to 100-0 them. The other was a pre-rework Critplank crit that hit for like 2k damage on an Ashe.
Infernape2 votesThe only champs I can recall doing that with is with Ekko and TF. Ekko with Chronobreak with 700+ AP, and TF with a blue card (with his E passive primed, Luden's, Lich Bane and Thunderlord's Decree going off at once).
Mast3rShake3 votesRiot can easily rework her W and remove the zoning from her E but if you still cant beat her after then u are bad at dodging skillshots.
Looks like someone doesn’t watch LCS... Guess those players need to get good
Flufflepuff42312 votesThis is an actually true I personally play Zoe in quite a bit she’s my main and they’re quite the few interesting things about her.
For starters Zoe adds some new variety to the Rossiter which is something that we desperately needed. Some may say that Zoe is too Disney but personally I find that it adds a great use of colour design and shows the new side of league that we haven’t really seen before with a ton of other champions.
Secondly Zoe is actually a pretty hard character to master. Zoe has some really great combo’s that are quite different from other champions. Let’s start with her q. Her qycan be redirected in many different directions which basically gives you so many different options to skill shot someone. Her W straight up takes everything you know about league and destroys it. I find this a spell to be really cool because you can use any spell that the enemy champions use which pretty much is basically every time an enemy uses something you use it to. It’s pretty much like clapping back at them basically saying that oh you wanted to use this well I could use it to then. Her e is pretty similar to a lot of other champions but the one difference between her e is that it actually causes the person to not be able to use any of their attacks which is super powerful. Leslie her or is different than any champion in the game that we’ve ever seen before. Where are has the shortest cool down in the game of 10 seconds but this is because it is in an attack it’s a blank and blank back through portal of a short distance. Combine this with her Q and her e this causes is some crazy skill shots in different patterns to trick and confuse your enemies.
So pretty much Zoe is a breath of fresh air. if you don’t like her you don’t have to player she was not a total screwup considering that she is super fun to play uses super different cool other types of attacks that no the champion really has in the game and she just has so much colour and fun to the game if you don’t want to use this character that’s fine but she clearly was not a mistake. RIOT intentionally decided to make this character super fun and that made her around the design aspect and less about the attacks. even though her attacks are super original I wouldn’t say that they screwed her up I would say that she is one of my favourite characters in the entire game and changes the game completely
Yung Daemon Sand1 votesAnd the worst part is all they really have to do to fix her is nerf her e or remove it all together- like that's literally it
Daedric Etwahl4 votesRight now my main two issues with Zoe are this:
The RNG drops from minions. Get rid of it, it has no place in this game.
The fact that she can completely whiff her Q and E but still kill you with her empowered autos and W bolts, all of which are targeted so no dodging those.
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