Getting rid of runes and masteries was possibly the stupidest choice Riot ever made.

Anatera··1 votes·1,282 views

Old runes and masteries made it possible for a whole host of characters to be viable, because you could target specific weaknesses and cover them using both OR enhance their strengths. The new runes don't do any of that. Not only that, there are fewer of them to choose from and they aren't even properly balanced in relation to each other. The only possible reason for runes to exist in the state it is right now, is that they're easier to balance because there's fewer of them (ironic, since they still aren't). No wonder people keep picking the same characters over and over again and no wonder the game is just not fun anymore. Variety is dead and with Mobas, variety is exactly what keeps people coming back.

I don't know what made Riot think Runes Reforged was a good idea, unless their plan WAS to make a select group of 30 some odd champions be the only viable characters in the game. If they have any sense, they'll revert back to the old system. This won't happen though, because that would require them to admit they made a mistake.

19 Comments

Jamaree4 votes

"We hate how runes are just stat sticks." This community before Runes Reforged

"We hate that runes aren't just stat sticks." Also this community

Btw, what champions aren't viable now that were viable before?

Paroe3 votes

Runes reforged was nice on paper. In practice they cater to; Yellow = marksmen Red = AD assassins Blue = supports Green = bruisers White = utility

Its not a very good system, and is essentially just an extremely simplified version of the previous masteries. The massive disparity between the usefulness of keystones is a very bad thing, and riot refuses to fix it.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

the old split customization system was weird and outdated.

im not saying, that the new rune system is perfect, or that they couldnt have replaced runes and masteries with something better, but it makes sense that they got rid of the two separate systems in favour of a single one.

Paroe3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEOAAdtA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-23T09:05:43.904+0000)

the old split customization system was weird and outdated.

im not saying, that the new rune system is perfect, or that they couldnt have replaced runes and masteries with something better, but it makes sense that they got rid of the two separate systems in favour of a single one.

The one thing i hate most from runes reforged... the lack of Mastery pages. I play vastly different champions, i like to have one page per champion, not one page for my main champion and one page for my secondary.

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

The one thing i hate most from runes reforged... the lack of Mastery pages. I play vastly different champions, i like to have one page per champion, not one page for my main champion and one page for my secondary.

But...you can have multiple pages?

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

But...you can have multiple pages?

Because two pages is enough when you play 5+ champions who have vastly different playstyles and require entirely different set ups, right? Masteries as a system were designed to be tailored to a specific champion. Runes as a system were designed to be general to a range of champions.

Combining runes and masteries but using the rune page limit was a terrible idea, and enforced riots (at the time anyway) desire for small champion pools and inflexible players.

Jamaree5 votes

{quoted}

Because two pages is enough when you play 5+ champions who have vastly different playstyles and require entirely different set ups, right?

But...you can buy more rune pages?

Masteries as a system were designed to be tailored to a specific champion. Runes as a system were designed to be general to a range of champions.

I don't agree with this one in the slightest, runes were just as varied as masteries were.

Combining runes and masteries but using the rune page limit was a terrible idea, and enforced riots (at the time anyway) desire for small champion pools and inflexible players.

Buy...more rune pages?

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

But...you can buy more rune pages?

I don't agree with this one in the slightest, runes were just as varied as masteries were.

Buy...more rune pages?

Do... Do you realize how expensive they are? Its something like 20 levels to reach 6300 essence, and as im someone who doesnt have all the champions im sure as frag not spending my precious currency on rune pages.

Even before runes reforged priority went; Main champions ---> Minimum required for ranked ---> Runes for your main champions ---> Champion collection ---> Rune collection/Rune pages Now, with currency being a much scarcer resource that it was before, theres next to no reason to buy rune pages ever because it simply gimps you. They were always a "rich man" thing - in fact, ill bet you that most people who have a lot of rune pages bought them for RP.

Hell there isnt even an actual REASON for there to be rune page limits now - you cant buy them for RP anymore i dont think, theyre just a newbtrap for new players and a badly implemented sink for ultra-wealthy players.

P4ppino2 votes

But do you really need more than one or two pages? I always set up my runes in champ select. I don't know though, it just seems way easier.

Paroe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=SS Pappino,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEOAAdtA,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-23T10:35:24.124+0000)

But do you really need more than one or two pages? I always set up my runes in champ select. I don't know though, it just seems way easier.

You... You really do. If you play, say; Malzahar Nocturne DrMundo Chogath and Leona your runes and what you want out of them are going to be dramatically different for each champion, because theyre different playstyles entirely. Malzahar? I take red/white as my runes (predator and magic feet) Nocturne? Red/yellow. (Hail of blades and overheal) Mundo? Yellow/red (Conqueror and ravenous hunter) Chocho? Green/white (Grasp, demolish and magic feet) Leona? Green/red. (Aftershock and ultimate hunter)

Theres very little overlap between the rune pages too, making it a pain in the butt to have to re-do my runes every time i dont get certain roles in a row.

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

Do... Do you realize how expensive they are? Its something like 20 levels to reach 6300 essence, and as im someone who doesnt have all the champions im sure as frag not spending my precious currency on rune pages.

That is the price they were before though?

Even before runes reforged priority went; Main champions ---> Minimum required for ranked ---> Runes for your main champions ---> Champion collection ---> Rune collection/Rune pages

Which technically is more since you no longer have to buy runes.

Now, with currency being a much scarcer resource that it was before, theres next to no reason to buy rune pages ever because it simply gimps you. They were always a "rich man" thing - in fact, ill bet you that most people who have a lot of rune pages bought them for RP.

It isn't scarcer, I have done the math, between lvls 35 to 50, you lose around 400 to 800 on average depending on your luck and do you know how much raw BE you get just leveling now? You get well in the 20k+ range.

I also had 8 rune pages and didn't buy a single one.

Hell there isnt even an actual REASON for there to be rune page limits now - you cant buy them for RP anymore i dont think, theyre just a newbtrap for new players and a badly implemented sink for ultra-wealthy players.

Then what is the problem if you can just change things anyway?

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

That is the price they were before though?

Which technically is more since you no longer have to buy runes.

It isn't scarcer, I have done the math, between lvls 35 to 50, you lose around 400 to 800 on average depending on your luck and do you know how much raw BE you get just leveling now? You get well in the 20k+ range.

I also had 8 rune pages and didn't buy a single one.

Then what is the problem if you can just change things anyway?

The problem is that you have to swap them on the fly to begin with. Why would you ever do that when you should just be able to make your page for your champion and use it? Why should i have to constantly swap my runes around just because i dont like onetricking?

Also... Levels 35-50 getting you 20K BE? Are you insane? Ive gone from levels 30 to 38 and gotten a whopping 7000 or so BE. In the amount of games i played to get that BE, id have gotten 10K IP... Which would have gone to champions, like it still is.

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that you have to swap them on the fly to begin with. Why would you ever do that when you should just be able to make your page for your champion and use it? Why should i have to constantly swap my runes around just because i dont like onetricking?

You don't, buy more rune pages?

Also... Levels 35-50 getting you 20K BE? Are you insane?

No, you get around 1 to 1.1 k per level over ten levels now with the current system, however when leveling, you get obscene amounts.

Ive gone from levels 30 to 38 and gotten a whopping 7000 or so BE. In the amount of games i played to get that BE, id have gotten 10K IP... Which would have gone to champions, like it still is.

No you wouldn't have, that said, you will even out to around the 10 k BE when you hit level 40.

Eedat2 votes

Do you have any idea wtf you're talking about? You realize that you only got 2 rune pages for free with the old system? Not only did you get only 2 rune pages, but you couldnt edit them period in lobby. What the actual fuck are you going on about?

Anatera1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEOAAdtA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-23T09:05:43.904+0000)

the old split customization system was weird and outdated.

im not saying, that the new rune system is perfect, or that they couldnt have replaced runes and masteries with something better, but it makes sense that they got rid of the two separate systems in favour of a single one.

Oh of course, combining the two systems into one, when the new one has nothing in common with either of the two outside of keystones. I have no problem with them combining the two, but they went too far with this one.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Oh of course, combining the two systems into one, when the new one has nothing in common with either of the two outside of keystones.

i dont think thats entirely true either.

the current rune system is a smaller mastery system. the flat stat bonuses you get from the pathes are similar to what you got out of the old rune system.

im not saying its great. for example i dont really like how those flat stat bonuses are bound to rune pathes, and you cant take the precision path without being forced to invest into attack speed for example.

instead i would have preferred a 7th neutral rune slot that lets you allow to chose a flat stat bonus to your champion. anything between ad/ap, health, 10% cdr, attack speed, 3% movement speed and possible other stats.

also, the new system is in my opinion too small to support all champions equally. some of them heavily synergize with certain champion kits, while other champions struggle to find keystone runes that fit them.

we probably need 6 available runes in every single slot, until all champions benefit from the system somewhat equally.

Anatera1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEOAAdtA,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-06-23T09:23:00.866+0000)

i dont think thats entirely true either.

the current rune system is a smaller mastery system. the flat stat bonuses you get from the pathes are similar to what you got out of the old rune system.

im not saying its great. for example i dont really like how those flat stat bonuses are bound to rune pathes, and you cant take the precision path without being forced to invest into attack speed for example.

instead i would have preferred a 7th neutral rune slot that lets you allow to chose a flat stat bonus to your champion. anything between ad/ap, health, 10% cdr, attack speed, 3% movement speed and possible other stats.

also, the new system is in my opinion too small to support all champions equally. some of them heavily synergize with certain champion kits, while other champions struggle to find keystone runes that fit them.

we probably need 6 available runes in every single slot, until all champions benefit from the system somewhat equally.

Yeah...that's what I'm saying. It's too small to cover the roster of 134 characters, whereas the old system had enough variety in runes to do so (or I should say cover more, since there were balancing issues back then too) and the masteries were general enough to compliment them. I'm hardly saying the old system was perfect either, but anything is better than this. It's like Riot managed to somehow completely misunderstand their game and how many characters they had to account for and released Runes Reforged regardless. The only solution this board can come up with is to lower damage, except that's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

They've already admitted their mistakes on something like LeBlanc, Rengar & Kogmaw's updates. Runes Reforged on the other hand is still faring well despite being unbalanced, at least they're not something like the old Runes where everyone has a confirmed 9 Armor Seals.

Anatera1 votes

{quoted}

They've already admitted their mistakes on something like LeBlanc, Rengar & Kogmaw's updates. Runes Reforged on the other hand is still faring well despite being unbalanced, at least they're not something like the old Runes where everyone has a confirmed 9 Armor Seals.

Faring well despite being unbalanced.

He said without an ounce of irony.

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