The issues with Yorick and why he's getting reworked.

Lost R··37 votes·6,558 views

There's no argument that Yorick needs a rework, but like every champion that came before him, from Sion to Poppy to Ryze, there are always going to be critics behind changing his mechanics. There are ALWAYS sincere naysayers, even if you had a champion that just made a different obnoxious squeaky noise globally on each skill.

So what's up with Yorick? Yeah, he sucks. Yeah, he looks like ass. Yeah, he's never played or banned (by anyone except me). But then you have the fanatics who won't shut up about how awesome he is and how everyone else just doesn't get how he's supposed to work and at least one who will inevitably lament his relaunch with threats of suicide.

But why, specifically, is Yorick twelve different grades of ass? It's easy enough to just say "This champion sucks" and expect everyone to agree with you, but if you are a game designer, you have to pin down a champion's core identity, figure out what's wrong about them and then decide where you want to go from there. If you don't do this, among many other things, you risk repeating the same mistakes.


Out of all the champions that have been reworked thus far, I think Yorick's core identity is the hardest to pin down. Poppy was the frontline Yordle with a hammer, shield and heavy armor (by Yordle standards) known for shoving around enemies like a schoolyard bully and being too stubborn to die. Sion was an undead guy with an axe who refused to die. Ryze was a salty frontline mage with an emphasis on spell combos. These elements, while different in their relaunches, are similar enough to their old incarnations that they feel like the same character, just made better.

So what is Yorick's core identity? Well, he's a gravedigger. He's undead. He's got a shovel, and he summons minions. That uhh.... isn't much to go on. Even more confusingly, despite building attack damage, Yorick's kit doesn't emphasize his own involvement in the fighting. Yeah, he can basic attack, but his ghouls do most of the fighting. His kit says mage like Azir, but his ratios mostly say brawler (with one ghoul mechanically identical to the others being AP for no reason). His ghouls also look so similar to one another that in the heat of battle, it's impossible to tell which ghoul is which and why you should care about that specific one. His ult, while the most interesting part of him, also scales off of AD and can be dreadfully underwhelming in many circumstances compared to Zilean's ult, which, despite being full of cheesy bullshit is functionally superior. All that aside, his ghouls are very unrewarding to fight against. Their hitbox is unbelievably small, difficult to hit, they usually died before you could make the killing blow, and up until a relatively recent patch, you didn't even get rewarded for killing them.

What does this mean for future Yorick? It'd be fine enough to make him a minionmancer like Azir, focusing on one type of minion and using the rest of his kit to command them around, but we already have that with Azir. We also have Elise, and Malzahar, and even Heimerdinger, whom their minions feel less of a core identity and more of just one part of their kit and overall menace (not to mention they are much easier and satisfying to hit). More than likely this will remain with Yorick with his relaunch, but Riot will have to show something really creative to make him stand out from the others who took his job.


Next up is his story, which has to be hands down the absolute worst story in all of League history. If you haven't read it, you aren't missing much. In short, Yorick was a gravedigger in a family line of gravediggers on the Shadow Isles who died before he could have children, and now is cursed to continue his family trade in undeath. He's basically a boring zombie or ghoul even by zombieghoul standards. It's a far cry from other "normal" characters like Braum, who despite being a humble goat herder is portrayed as a folk hero who once punched through a mountain and fought off an avalanche to save a troll child.

Given that Yorick is still a gravedigger, identified by his shovel in the social media teaser, I don't imagine his backstory will change all THAT much, but no doubt he will be made more interesting. He deserves it, hanging around dead things long before the region went to hell and EVERYTHING died and undied (not always in that order). He might have some ancestral gift, either before or after the Isle transformation, possibly even being a necromancer. We don't really have one of those at the moment (Borom Darkwill doesn't count; he's not a playable champion).


Finally, his appearance.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/d/d3/Yorick_OriginalSkin.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110623115350

It's a face not even a mother could bring herself to love.

There's a lot to say about the old art. Everything looks insanely cartoony and overstylized, which even by the standards of way back when is pretty abysmal. Keep in mind that Orianna and Vayne came right before him, with Leona and Wukong right after. His face is mostly ashen, and unlike Nocturne, he doesn't even have the excuse of being a living shadow. His shovel looks all kinds of fucked up, and not even in the damaged way; more like someone wanted to overdesign it and never knew when to stop. His hair looks like a combination of moss and leather. His anatomy is all kinds of fucked up (even Dampe from Zelda looks better than him!), and he's got patches even where patches shouldn't be. Where do the clothes begin and where do they end? Is he naked? Do we need to censor this picture?

Now don't take this the wrong way, whoever designed him. I'm sure you're a much better artist now, but honestly, what were you thinking back then? Did you lose a bet?

I have no idea what New Yorick will look like, but I have endless faith in Riot. Ever since they started the Visual Update and relaunch shtick, they've never failed to disappoint. No doubt he will look awesome. If a prison warden can transform into this

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/f/f3/Thresh_OriginalSkin.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160522024023

a tree transforms into this

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/0/02/Maokai_OriginalSkin.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160520004142

and whatever the hell Evelynn is supposed to be transforms into this

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/a/a2/Evelynn_OriginalSkin.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160413184544

A gravedigger on the Shadow Isles must look pretty bitchin'. His shovel alone looks really cool. An impossibly cool appearance must be part of the benefits in the Shadow Isles.

So in conclusion, Yorick is even more of a wild card to predict than previous champions that went under the knife. He was never a distinctive champion to begin with, he looked fuck ugly, and his playstyle was all over the shop. With only a handful of champions left that I haven't unlocked, I might be forced to unlock him before the others rather than dead last, now that his relaunch has been announced.


A day after I post this thread, Riot teased us with a preview gif of Yorick.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zqyFktEODhM/V7tB6dDYeII/AAAAAAAA9wI/lyAtWawvmMUErv-IuP8TH8B9IwoTei0qACLcB/s400/giphy.gif

Now THIS is what I like to see!

Okay, so Yorick's theme largely remained the same; it just looks infinitely better than his previous artwork. He's a pale blue, fitting in with the Shadow Isle aesthetic and the asian color theme for undead characters, so it's plenty safe to say that he's undead or in whatever way affected by the curse of the Shadow Isles.

He's got a MASSIVE build; Yorick's old art had him rather bulky-looking, and while I doubt he's as large as Sion or Braum, he definitely looks like he lifts (and doesn't skip leg day). It stands to reason; digging is grueling exercise, and a career of gravedigging will build you up right quick.

His face is hidden only partially under the hood now (for those who said his old ashen face was just shadow, you don't know how shadows work), his eyes glow blue rather than yellow (keeping in with the whole Shadow Isles color theme), and he's got a very cool beard.

There's something odd on his back. I can't tell what it is from this angle, but whatever it is, it's generating a black mist like a cape behind him. It probably means something, like some metaphorical and literal burden he has to carry like Ryze's scroll. He also has a pendant. I will guess it's not an ordinary pendant. It shines right out at you. Perhaps it's the source of his power? Perhaps its a phylactery, and if so, whose is it?

His shovel is also huge. I have two shovels and they are nothing near this size. I'm going to guess he's at least six feet tall, the shovel is taller than he is, and the general aesthetic around it and how he wields it makes it seem more like a staff. Based on how it glows at the very end and its general appearance basically confirms that the shovel is not mundane. It probably has powers over the dead that you bury with it, which would all but confirm Yorick's new status as a necromancer.

Finally, he has minions still, backing up his status as a close range mage or magelike; possibly an AP brawler like Gragas. They all appear to be the same type of ghoul, physical ones over ethereal, and they better fit the theme of League. They are still twisted abominations, far from being human; closer to imps than people. They also run very fast. I counted four of them, and it's likely his maximum is four (probably maxes out automatically when he ults or something).

Great, now the rest of the week will be spent watching the Riot news feed waiting for Yorick updates. You have officially intrigued me about Yorick, Riot, and those are words that are baffling to say in that order.

By the way, there's a dead Thresh in the background. This was probably ripped from their champion spotlight video, and dead Thresh also implies that he and Yorick don't see eye to eye, likely regarding to the dead and their souls. If that's the case, then Yorick's story and motives likely revolve around trying to bring order to the mortal chaos in the Shadow Isles and at the very least putting souls to rest, as opposed to Thresh who revels in the torment and seeks to torture souls forever. Possibly the closest thing to a good guy the Shadow Isles has.

64 Comments

ModCaptainMårvelous12 votes

You wanna know Yorick's biggest flaw?

He's false advertising since Day 1. Bear with me because this is Season 2 and beyond salt:

When Yorick was announced, I was hyped as fuck. Oh SHIT, a minion-mancer/overlord champion. Fucking finally! It was a lot to wish for but I almost thought Riot had cracked the code on minion AI. We'd get a sick-nasty micro intensive complex character. Hell even if he wasn't super complex we might at least get a champion who has some micro or cool things he can do with minions. Fast forward to release. The HELL happened?

On top of having a bland kit, the ghouls were just addons. Here's a fun experiment: Remove the ghouls from Yorick's kit....what do you lose? Sure, he needs a new passive, but otherwise he's just about the same as before. The ghouls are literally just an addon with zero thought to them. You can remove them and there is next-to-nothing that Yorick loses besides some jungle cheese. It's disgusting, especially for someone we were told would be -the- minion controller champion.

Yorick's look isn't bad. In fact I like it. It makes him stand out as the apathetic "I'm just doing my job" zombie of the shadow isles. I like his lore. I like his character. I like the idea of a gravedigger employing a cavalcade of minions to help him dig graves. But the fact that Yorick was billed as a minion controller and never given the tools or kit to reflect minion control has always left a sour taste in my mouth.

morris13 votes

{quoted}

On top of having a bland kit, the ghouls were just addons. Here's a fun experiment: Remove the ghouls from Yorick's kit....what do you lose? Sure, he needs a new passive, but otherwise he's just about the same as before. The ghouls are literally just an addon with zero thought to them. You can remove them and there is next-to-nothing that Yorick loses besides some jungle cheese. It's disgusting, especially for someone we were told would be -the- minion controller champion.

Yes, his kit is flawed. Yes, his ghouls are boring to use. Still, please remember there are other people out there that enjoy his current kit (thematically or gameplay-wise, not just because of the toxicity in it). Riot seems to forget about this aspect when reworking champions. If you're gonna delete each and every single one of his ghouls, you may as well rename him.

ModCaptainMårvelous5 votes

Two things about your comment:

  • I'm not advocating for the removal of ghouls. If anything I want Riot to expand upon them and make them complex and necessary for his kit.

  • The "Well some people enjoy this" argument is flawed because that's true for everything. In a world of billions with at least 60-ish million players, at least ONE PERSON consider Yorick to be their favorite kit in the game. I'm certain there's at least one person in the world who misses old Poppy/Taric/Sion, regardless of how healthy they are for the game.

Lao Fu the Tiger3 votes

I love Yorick. He's fun as hell.

Why? Not because of his game health, but because the absolutely absurd cheese you can do with him in the laning phase just spamming ghouls and watching the enemy laner try to auto attack the ghouls as he dies leaves me crying in laughter every time.

Lost R1 votes

It's not about removing all of the ghouls. It's about removing all but one type of ghoul (maybe two if they do a Heimerdinger thing) and then either focus his kit around commanding them like Azir or making them just one part of his kit and menace. I'm thinking in the Azir route.

RamRanchDressing1 votes

What if you combine elements of Sona's kit into his? I.e, one mechanism casts the ghouls (maybe his passive?) and each of his abilities alters the effect the ghouls have? Combined with the ability to manipulate them manually, Tibbers style, if you please...

Autrah Fang8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0y43ckv,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-22T02:03:23.121+0000)

Next up is his story, which has to be hands down the absolute worst story in all of League history.

personally, i prefer Yorick's over Evelynn's, which is basically "Evelynn is a spoooooky assassin! no one knows where she's from. people think she's from Shadow Isles but she won't tell lol."

Lost R3 votes

Evelynn's backstory is just lazy. They said they would eventually address it.

underscores2221 votes

League has several depressingly boring backstories

Fiddlesticks - super old lore, some weird summoned thing of terror Gragas - Angry drunk Nautilus - guy in a diving suit? Nocturne - a nightmare?

Those are just off the top of my head. Of course, they are all older lore, not updated to the current style. I know Riots working on it

Votable Jester1 votes

I actually kinda like Nocturnes just in that it adds another group to Runeterra. Didn't it say something along the lines of there possibly being many more nightmare creatures just like Nocturne?

Zerenza2 votes

Nautilus was a diver on a very large boat investigated the Guardian Sea, while investigating he and his crew stumbled upon a portion of the sea that was painted black (This is presumably the result of the shadow isles presence), none of the other men were willing enough to investigate, but he was. So he put on the diving suit and just as he was getting over the rail, the shadow's grabbed him and started to pull him down, rocking his entire ship. His crew unhinged his hands from the rails and just before he plunged into the depths, he grabbed an anchor but it was too late and the darkness consumed him as he fell to the bottom of the sea.

When he awoke his suit felt more like his own body (the shadow isles turned him into a soul and he became trapped in his suit), it was pitch black and he was to heavy to run or swim, so he walked. When he reached the shore, his ship, his crew and his family had long since been dead and his entire life was lost to the darkness.

"When lost in utter darkness, there is nothing left but forward."

Nautilus also fought off half of the harrowing completely alone, it usually took Miss Fortune, Twisted Fate, Gangplank, Graves and Illaoi just to get it to go away but nautilus completely destroyed it.

He's one of my favorite champions lore wise.

underscores2221 votes

I generally only remember the original lore (or any minor changes to it) so if some of this was addressed in supplemental lore, please direct me to the proper locations so I can expand my knowledge.

As far as I can remember:

  • Something in the black water pulled him in (not necessarily the water itself)
  • The crew sacrificed him to save themselves (the ship was going to sink)
  • He is never linked to the shadow isles in any way.
    • The black water did not behave as the black mist (and even predates the idea of the black mist)
    • He is not confirmed as dead/undead.
  • We don't know how long it took him to return to Valoran (implied a long while, since his house and family are "gone" but did he just not remember clearly enough to find them?)
  • He joined the league to find his shipmates who left him to die because the league commissioned the journey, which implies they might not be dead

All we really know (from his lore directly) is the strange water (or something in it) changed him and fused him with the suit.

As far as I recall, he never fought off the black mist (again, if this was part of a harrowing lore event from 2-3 years ago, please direct me)

All in all, his actual lore is rather bland - sacrificed, transformed into a monster and seeking revenge with only dim memories to help.

I think there is a lot more to be added to his story - a lot of room to make him more interesting. There are a lot of unknowns around him and his lore, which was rather common for champ lores back then (old morde, eve, rammus, etc)

Zerenza1 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Harrowing

II - 1 Year. The Drowned Anchor. One element of the Harrowing stalled. Reports of a large figure(Nautilus) encased in a rusted diving suit seen in the heart of the fighting.

It's referenced by Illaoi that nautilus is the result of the black mist because she uses her "Shadow Isles" Quotes when taunting Nautilus. She only uses these quote's against Shadow Isles champions, so the fact she says them to Nautilus is an indication he's a result of the black mist.

Im The Jayce God2 votes

I like nocturnes..

underscores2221 votes

There's nothing wrong with liking their lore, I was merely trying to comment on the lack of substance and detail within the lore itself. Nocturne is a shadowy nightmare creature that is from the world of dreams and feeds on magical energy of sleeping summoners. He somehow managed to jump to the physical world. Then he was promptly locked up in a magic cage and forced to fight.

That's a really cool concept, but the old idea of the Institute of War kinda crimped it - preventing more interesting things from happening. He's not out there feeding on people anymore, he's stuck being an arena fighter. There could be so much more going on with him and his interactions in the world - and I think that is what the new lore is working on showing for all the champions.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Exactly like Shaco's

Wyrmblade7 votes

I believe evelynn could be described as a "spooky strumpet"

Lost R16 votes

A creepy concubine?

No, she's closer to a scary succubus.

Ralanr10 votes

Demonic Dominatrix?

Leonerdo9 votes

Shadowy Seductress?

Apparently Evelynn belongs in Fallen London (obscure reference, don't worry about it)

Shrek Luigi2 votes

Sneaky Snoopster!!! ^---^

Argomecha Perdix1 votes

{quoted}

Shadowy Seductress?

Apparently Evelynn belongs in Fallen London (obscure reference, don't worry about it)

Nah, she looks like she is at home at the Iron Republic.

Lost R1 votes

A horrific harlot.

GULAG 4 U6 votes

"salty frontline mage"

XD I'm dying

Ralanr6 votes

I think he might become a minionmancer juggernaut.

One thing I've grasped that's unique with Yorick's theme is that he's not some squishy necromancer that gets his undead to do everything for him. He's someone who will literally beat you over the head with a shovel despite having the power to raise zombies to fight you.

He's kinda like a death knight in wow.

DorkunedAuras3 votes

I think I heard whoever is doing the rework mention this. He's not squishy, and he's not going to be. He will remain a necromancer minionmancer Juggernaut. Everything after that line is getting changed.

Dovahkiin4165 votes

As someone who has played his fair share of Yorick, around 34k mastery. In a way it makes me sad to know that the Yorick I know and love very much will be gone.

But on the other hand, it makes me excited to see what Riot has in store for him.

If it's anything on the level of Poppy's rework, I'll be very happy.

But if it's like Skarner's.... Well.... item 3070

Cenobite Azaziel2 votes

{quoted}

As someone who has played his fair share of Yorick, around 34k mastery. In a way it makes me sad to know that the Yorick I know and love very much will be gone.

But on the other hand, it makes me excited to see what Riot has in store for him.

If it's anything on the level of Poppy's rework, I'll be very happy.

But if it's like Skarner's.... Well.... item 3070

Skaner got rocks. I call them kidney stones.

cope moment1 votes

poppy's super fun, but really atm I feel she's a bit underpowered

An Undead brat5 votes

I came here and expected an analysis of Yorick's kit and why he's unhealthy.

But what the hell is this? A roast of the Yorick's designers and fans? Besides this is not his hair, that's a hood and a reason why his face is ashy -because it's hidden in the hood's shadow. I don't say his kit or his splash art are good, just that this post is highly misleading...

BloodyTompon4 votes

His hard to pin down core identity is him not having enough of one. That's one of the core problems. The other problem is playing against him.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Remembers season 2

Shudders

Meep Man3 votes

There is even more "ass" in the Gameplay department when it comes to Yorick as well. Not only does his kit have little overall direction and synergy with itself, but it also somehow ends up being both potentially game breaking if not balanced the way it currently is. First up, we have the "on surface" issue, being Yorick's sustain. His E is an extremely poorly designed ability. It gives him a huge amount of instant healing for a target of any kind simply being in range, and then gives him even more healing, which ends up being a ton against champions, through the ghoul's attacks. As mentioned, ghouls are terrible units to target and kill, so they usually just end up living their full duration. This just makes Yorick incredibly annoying to lane against because you essentially either out damage his E healing (which is harder than it sounds) or flat out lose the lane. It's that simple. Secondly, his minions themselves (the current form of them). Now, anyone who has been here for a LONG TIME will have seen at least one of these guys lurking the Rift. I'm talking about Jungle Yorick. Yes, that's a thing and, secretly, it's the most limiting factor of his current kit. If his cool downs were any shorter or his ghouls lasted for any longer, he could very effectively solo Epic Monsters at nearly all stages of the game. Currently, at Level 3, if Yorick has Blue Buff, he can solo Dragon. At Level 5, if the Rift Herald's back hitbox cooperates and properly gives you the % health true damage for hitting his back (seriously this needs a fix) and Yorick had Blue Buff, he can solo Rift Herald. Once Yorick is nearing full build and has Blue Buff, he can vary narrowly solo Baron Nashor. If Yorick's ghoul durations or cool downs were buffed in any way, he could probably solo Baron Nashor with as little as 2-3 items. It's ridiculous. Finally, his ultimate itself. You mentioned the cheese, but I will highlight it. If Yorick has a Vayne, Teemo, Jax, or anyone who builds Muramana or on-hit effects on his team, his ultimate's effectiveness is increased infinitely. The clone has the targeted ally's items and will apply all passive effects the target has. This ultimate in and of itself I am willing to bet has limited design space a ton in on-hit items and just makes playing on-hit characters with Yorick almost mandatory. To top it all off, Yorick's current kit is pretty braindead. Other than directing the ultimate clone, Yorick essentially just spams spells when they come up and wins. Great!

Lao Fu the Tiger1 votes

I swear to you I am not joking when I say that Yorick jungle carried me to Gold in Season 5 with nearly an 80% win rate. As such, reading this post made me laugh harder than anything I've read in the last week. It's total bull, but it's so hilarious to hear the enemy team saying "WTF YORICK IS SOLOING BARON" that I can't bring myself to stop being "that guy."

Shrek Luigi3 votes

I disagree with your sentiments on Yorick's kit/identity and how that makes him bad, but I appreciate the rest of the post as someone who avidly used to play Yorick back when he first started playing. Prior to being abandoned from a balance standpoint, Yorick had a very cool identity as a mixed-damage lane bully with all the sustain, poke and disengage tools he needed to come ahead in lane, while having the tradeoff of a low sphere-of-influence and overall damage-output later into the game that reduced his role to that of a watered-down (but still functional) bodyguard.

The inherent issue with champions like Yorick is that a huge portion of their power-budget goes toward a safer game, be it mindless effective bullying or bottomless sustain, which effectively puts a consistent cap on how influential they can be in a match. When this happens, there are two outcomes--either the champion needs to be reigned in balance-wise to the point where they are overshadowed by less-safe but more rewarding champions, or they are affected by balance changes in a way that causes their combination of sustain and harass to spiral into uncontrollable snowbally top-tier filth and they become The Best Champ For That Role. Both of these things have happened to Yorick on numerous occasions, although mostly the former, as seasons have passed, and Riot is finally dropping the hamm....the shovel.

Weathered2 votes

I'm still waiting for a champion that is ACTUALLY two units.

Cenobite Azaziel1 votes

You actually ban yorick?

Rito Staff1 votes

I think his face is out and I must say I prefer 100x the old one.

I mean, what the hell is wrong with his old design? I played him recently for maybe the first time, and I thought he was really cool looking.

Lost R1 votes

It is. I will have to add to this thread.

Killer of Poros1 votes

Personally I find yorick story pretty interesting because of how tragic it is. If you still consider his old league judgement it shows how he has been around long enough to see how empty he's become and what he lost.

Emojay1 votes

This looks awesome!

d4rkshock1 votes

Yorick has been scheduled for a rework ever since s3. Riot has neglected to rework him. He was strong in s3 until riot nerfed him into the ground. He is the worst champion in the game. Spam gouls and win lane but lose game and lose pick ban phase. Piss the hell out of your teammates before you even enter the queue. His kit didn't age well either. Nobody plays this guy anymore. He's picked just as much as urgot who is also a shit champion. Yorick's visuals are far below the industry standard. Shark tale has better graphics. He has no counterplay and is just a bitch to play against. All his abilities do the se thing. They spawn a goul. The ult is just used for the carry to finish off a low target before dying. I'm curious how crazy it would be if you had an aatrox jg with ga, and a zillean with yorick. What does yorick do after the lanning phase??? NOTHING!!! I'd buy him when his rework actually gets announced and play him and if he sucks, he sucks. Honestly, even when yorick was strong and to this day, every champion in the game has been competitively viable at some point except yorick. Don't believe me, look at lucian and how many times he's been in esports events this year and look at yorick and they're all spread out throughout the years. They were released the same year. It's just like Huskar in dota. Never competitively viable.

Lost R1 votes

Yorick was released in 2012. Lucian was released in 2013, just over a year later. As I said in the original post, Vayne and Orianna came right before him, and Leona and Wukong right after.

Just because he was queued up to go under the relaunch knife for three years doesn't mean Riot neglected to work on him. Others were higher up on the list of priorities, and they were easier to identify and rework. Yorick... needed a lot more attention than Poppy, Sion and Taric. He always lacked a real identity, and everything about him was a massive mess right from the start. Even when he did come out ahead, it was for all the wrong reasons due to poor programming and design.

Zerenza1 votes

Actually more of his lore can be found in the lore of the shadow isles, he apparently went there by boat and stayed ever since as a guide to the souls of the shadow isles to the multiple levels of death(there are several) so he's actually more of a guide than a gravedigger atleast when it comes to his more recent lore.

In hind sight he probably doesn't get along with thresh because thresh locks souls away and traps them. Yorick sets them free and guides them.

Sylvant1 votes

I like Yorick and i dont understand why is he considered bad champ, whenever i played him, i always found it super easy and fun. I Started reading ur post, wanted to check what the problem really is with him, but as the first paragraphs went, you only stated the questions without really give an answer and i cba read further, if you could bring some tl;dr and write the essence would be nice

Lost R1 votes

His kit is boring and lacks clarity, he's not very fun to play either as or against, his minions are near impossible to hit, and it's uncertain what he's supposed to be doing during all this. Azir basically does his job better than him at the moment. Azir is also a minionmancer, but it's made clear his and your relationship with them. They more or less act like an extension of his autoattack range rather than actual minions, and while one skill summons them, the other two interact with them, either moving them or moving himself. They can't be attacked, so you know all you need to do as Azir's opponent is to dodge them and look for openings that leaves Azir vulnerable, as he's extremely squishy once you get past his invincible guard.

Paroe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0y43ckv,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2016-08-23T13:29:22.926+0000)

His kit is boring and lacks clarity, he's not very fun to play either as or against, his minions are near impossible to hit, and it's uncertain what he's supposed to be doing during all this. Azir basically does his job better than him at the moment. Azir is also a minionmancer, but it's made clear his and your relationship with them. They more or less act like an extension of his autoattack range rather than actual minions, and while one skill summons them, the other two interact with them, either moving them or moving himself. They can't be attacked, so you know all you need to do as Azir's opponent is to dodge them and look for openings that leaves Azir vulnerable, as he's extremely squishy once you get past his invincible guard.

I wouldnt say 'boring' but it certinaly lacks some oomph in the lategame. A full build yorick with item 3043 item 3110 item 3065 item 3111 item 3083 and item 3025 /item 3748 just doesnt do a lot of anything lategame. the fall off is really hard.

Yorick actually has a ton of strategic depth, its like pre-rework malzahar and sona where they had a LOT of options but riot thought they didnt because they never paid attention to anything but the most shallow playstyles. Yorick needs a rework, but his rework needs to alleviate the issue he has of fall off. Because of how close hes coming to the assassin update im honestly thinking that yorick is going to become an assassin.

Lost R1 votes

People have said similar things about literally every pre-rework champion, but it doesn't take away the fact that their kits were outdated and/or poorly designed, and were NOT fun to be on the receiving end of.

Old Poppy's ult was definitely not fun to fight against as she ulted the weakest champion and then took her time two shotting everyone else with the nuclear warhead she called a hammer, and her laning phase was god awful because of her long basic attack animation and extreme mana hunger.

Taric, despite being a support, had little interaction with his allies, and it seemed like others were benefiting from his support status as a side effect rather than as the intended purpose. He was also one of the best anti-ADs in the entire game, since he had brawling power, a self heal, a stun, and his passive damage scaled off of armor. I once fended off three assassins alone when they all ganged up on me. None of them could even dent the armor, let alone Taric's health.

Sion had a baffling kit that made him either an AD brawler with spells or a tanky mage with brawling power with ludicrious AP scaling (which was an artifact from the beta days of League, where all skills scaled off AP). Going full AP meant he could two shot most champions with his Q and W, dealing a total of 1500 damage just by closing the gap, and his shield strength was over a thousand and prevented you from actually dealing any damage to him, and the stun didn't make things much better.

If he went AD, he would have insane lifesteal power (100% at level 16!) as his ult had an extremely low cooldown, making him the strongest duelist in the game, combined with a high attack damage, speed, AND durability, short of a whole team jumping on him to shut him down forcefully, he wasn't going to stop (and even then it was a huge gamble).

And I say all this having played more than my fair share of Taric, Sion and Poppy pre and post reworks. People may have gotten used to them and may bullshit about their "strategies", but the fact of the matter is their designs were terrible, both visually and kit-wise, and Riot knows they can do better, especially now that they have four to seven years more experience and much better talent than they had when they started.

Paroe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0y43ckv,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-23T14:29:17.429+0000)

People have said similar things about literally every pre-rework champion, but it doesn't take away the fact that their kits were outdated and/or poorly designed, and were NOT fun to be on the receiving end of.

Old Poppy's ult was definitely not fun to fight against as she ulted the weakest champion and then took her time two shotting everyone else with the nuclear warhead she called a hammer, and her laning phase was god awful because of her long basic attack animation and extreme mana hunger.

Taric, despite being a support, had little interaction with his allies, and it seemed like others were benefiting from his support status as a side effect rather than as the intended purpose. He was also one of the best anti-ADs in the entire game, since he had brawling power, a self heal, a stun, and his passive damage scaled off of armor. I once fended off three assassins alone when they all ganged up on me. None of them could even dent the armor, let alone Taric's health.

Sion had a baffling kit that made him either an AD brawler with spells or a tanky mage with brawling power with ludicrious AP scaling (which was an artifact from the beta days of League, where all skills scaled off AP). Going full AP meant he could two shot most champions with his Q and W, dealing a total of 1500 damage just by closing the gap, and his shield strength was over a thousand and prevented you from actually dealing any damage to him, and the stun didn't make things much better.

If he went AD, he would have insane lifesteal power (100% at level 16!) as his ult had an extremely low cooldown, making him the strongest duelist in the game, combined with a high attack damage, speed, AND durability, short of a whole team jumping on him to shut him down forcefully, he wasn't going to stop (and even then it was a huge gamble).

And I say all this having played more than my fair share of Taric, Sion and Poppy pre and post reworks. People may have gotten used to them and may bullshit about their "strategies", but the fact of the matter is their designs were terrible, both visually and kit-wise, and Riot knows they can do better, especially now that they have four to seven years more experience and much better talent than they had when they started.

I never said yoricks kit was uninteractive or fun to play against. I just said he has some pretty major falloff. Poppy, taric, and sion needed changes desperately. Sona did as well, but making her a slave to the ADC wasnt the right choice. Malzahar didnt need a rework, just a new W and passive (Pre-rework voidlings on an ability with a per-level cap? frag yeah. woulda been great.) But yorick isnt as boring as you think he is, hes not as flat, hes just subtle in what he does and how he does it. Hes simple, and for a lot of people, that simplicity is very fun to PLAY. You cant exactly pull the "not fun to play against" card when we have things like zed, yasuo, LB, azir, and caitlyn being extremely popular.

People who like, say, zed or sejauni or nautilus will not like yorick because of that reason. Yorick is very quiet. the rework needs to change a lot of things, i just hope the things that are changed are what actually NEEDS to be changed. Failed reworks like ryze, soraka, cass, and malzahar all come to mind.

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