Lets's talk about Gangplank.

Sahn Uzal··46 votes·4,981 views

I am a Gangplank main, this is not going to be just another QQ thread. Wanted to get that out of the way first. For those who don't want to read my wall of text with explanations and reasoning, I'll write a tl;dr at the end of the thread.

Ever since Gangplanks rework hit the live servers, he has been a very strong champion. He was intended to build like a fighter, but ended up being hilariously strong as a lategame full damage hypercarry. Ever since his (re?)release in Patch 5.14, he has gotten nothing but nerfs. Deserved nerfs, but nerfs nontheless.

And even after the recent nerfs, the ones that finally got his winrate below 50%, he is still a strong champion who often gets banned. He is a lategame monster, but is also a pain to shut down in the early game.

His ultimate allows him to get random kills/assists on the map. His Plunder Passive on Q allows him to stay even when he should be behind, or to get ahead when he should be going even. And his abuse of the Bandit mastery allows him to constantly harrass the enemy toplaner. Bandit allows him to get above average Gold income even when he doesn't use Parrley to farm, the only downside here is that it'll take him longer to get to his Ult upgrades.

Some people have suggested ''why not give his ultimate a max range?'' That won't fix jack shit, it would kill Toplane Gangplank, and force him to become a Midlaner so he can ult Bot and Toplane from his centrall position on the map. His ultimate can stay as it is, a lategame hyper carry with Global Pressure can exist without being problematic/horribly weak. Karthus Karthus is 'living' proof for that statement. He is a lategame hypercarry, he has a global ultimate, he is definetly playable/not weak.

Let's move on to his Gold Plunder and Abuse of the bandit mastery.

I understand Gangplanks Gold plunder has thematic value. He is a pirate who will burn your village to the ground http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/12/Trial_by_Fire.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/20?cb=20150707190028&format=webp Blow up your houses, your friends, your families, your hopes, your dreams and your health bars http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/4/4e/Powder_Keg.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/20?cb=20150707190027&format=webp and leave with a movementspeed boost and his pockets full of gold.

But sometimes, gamehealth should be prioritised over thematic. A similar thing happened to Draven when he lost his Bleed passive. Rip Blood Brothers Draven Darius

Removing or reducing his Gold income on Parrrley would give him a much harder time staying relevant when he is behind, and would delay his scaling to be more in line with other lategame carries.

On the other hand, without the bandit abuse, Gangplank should use his Q to farm, which automatically allows lanebullies to do a lot more work versus him. And I could see Gangplanks start maxing E first if there is not enough reason to keep maxing Q first.

With his Gold plunder having strong arguements for and against it, I'll move on to the main fucking issue: His bandit abuse.

The way Toplane Gangplank plays the laningphase is by placing a powder keg, hugging it, being indirectly tankier because it's risky to enter that zone, and then spam his Q on the enemy toplaner to force them out of lane. Bandit gives 10 gold per Q. Parrley ha sa 4 second cooldown. It adds up, and it adds up fast. Gangplank should be forced to use Parrley to farm. Using it to harrass should have some SERIOUS downsides. to it. IF Gangplank has to use his Q to farm, Melee lane bullies won't get harrassed from range nearly as much, so they can trade with Gangplank (who won't trade well with them in melee range) more confidently. He'd be a lategame hypercarry with a shitty early game, like he should be.

My suggestion; change Bandit to only give gold if the attack deals it's damage up to 250 units away. You could change it so Parrley is considered a ranged attack... But do we really want Gangplanks running around with a Runans item 3085, shooting 3 bullets instead of 1?


#tl;dr

Gangplank is too hard to shut down and keep down because of his ultimate, his Gold plunder and his abuse of the bandit mastery. His ultimate is a necessary evil and can't really be fixed, luckily, fixing his other issues should make it less problematic aswell.

His Gold plunder has good arguements for and against it. It could get removed I don't think a world where Gangplank can be healthy with this mechanic is impossible.

His abuse of the Bandit mastery NEEDS to go, because being forced to farm with Q to get your gold allows lanebullies to actualy bully him. Because Currently Gangplank does not miss out on gold if he spams Q to harrass.

EDIT: FUCK THERE IS A GODDAMN TYPO IN THE TITLE

123 Comments

Marshbouy13 votes

Lets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets'sLets's

sorry i come from from 9gag

Sahn Uzal23 votes

#DicksOutForHarambe

Sorry I came from 9gag

Marshbouy3 votes

Actually the posts ive seen have been completely hating on harambe... #He'sNotJustAnApe

Sahn Uzal15 votes

I am a German engineer who vapes, does crossfit and I have Girlfriend. And I am offended.

https://media.giphy.com/media/JVqeFxl3Qo8/giphy.gif

Because Tradition.

Marshbouy2 votes

I'm gonna shove those wieners up your bootyhole. http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/862/065/0e9.jpg

Because tradition (Sorry im not good at lewd comments)

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Just say something about Dry anal rape. That's what 9gag usually does.

Marshbouy1 votes

[deleted]

Sahn Uzal1 votes

You really suck at this.

Marshbouy1 votes

sobs I know. I rarely comment on 9gag anyway. The last times I really said anything was when peopl were saying that the no mans Sky dev didnt lie

Sahn Uzal1 votes

I've never commented on 9gag, but I enjoy reading the comments. They're often funnier than the actual posts.

Marshbouy1 votes

Often yeah, 70% of the posts are garbage @dm1n posts.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

So Let's talk about Gangplank turned into Let's talk about 9gag.... 9gagplank I suppose...

Sahn Uzal2 votes

It doesn't matter what you are doing, it won't be more important than memes.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Why aren't u vegan !?!? You are a disgrace to the german masterrace :>

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Fuck I knew I missed something... EDIT: Fuck I didn't mention atheïsm either...

dapositiveviking6 votes

could they code bandit to only work on auto attacks, but not abilities that apply on hit effects? it would hit fizz and ezreal too but they arent very known for abusing it

Sahn Uzal15 votes

On attack rather than on hit? Like Rageblade?

That's a great idea actually!

elon wątroba1 votes

That would fuck up supports.

dapositiveviking4 votes

bandit already only applies to basic attacks and on hit effect abilities so not really

It Hertz When IP6 votes

Supports for the most part don't have many abilities that proc on-hit effects, this wouldn't really affect them.

Sona x Rubick3 votes

I played a thousand times against gangplank and imo you're right, there are two problems i found against him: -gangplank denying melees with barrels (can't kill them) i don't know if you feel the same, but it's really hard to kill his barrels as melees and he can keep them for a lot of time. -not being able to shutdown gangplank due to his ulti and his gold generation like you said.

how i would fixe them: -reduce barrels life time to 10 seconds -remove the gold generation on parrrley -give a delay to gangplank's ulti if it's cast beyond 2000 range -revert hsi useless nerfs

feel free to write your thoughts.

Theorchero2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona x Rubick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0E2I6rL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-09-09T12:21:51.839+0000)

I played a thousand times against gangplank and imo you're right, there are two problems i found against him: -gangplank denying melees with barrels (can't kill them) i don't know if you feel the same, but it's really hard to kill his barrels as melees and he can keep them for a lot of time. -not being able to shutdown gangplank due to his ulti and his gold generation like you said.

how i would fixe them: -reduce barrels life time to 10 seconds

Might as well delete the champion because 80% of his barrel combos would be impossible. It's extremely difficult to triple barrel without having an existing one up, and if you start the fight by using all 3 of your barrels, even if you hit unless you seriously nuke the backline you will be useless for 5-7 seconds, by then the fight could be decided.

-remove the gold generation on parrrley

You're fucking joking right? It used to give like 10 gold, then 8, now 6 at max rank. The problem isn't the bonus gold on plunder. It doesn't even start stacking up until mid game at best.

-give a delay to gangplank's ulti if it's cast beyond 2000 range

No. GP is all about global pressure.

-revert hsi useless nerfs

The nerfs are the only things that are keeping him in check.

Gangplanks current ultimate is garbage until level 11. The rank 1 has a long ass cooldown and doesn't do dick for damage apart from thunderlords.

If you make his barrels pen 60% armor, have 5 max and .25 cast time instead of .5, he'd broken as shit again.

His W mana cost and health nerfs were needed. He needs a weaker early game.

feel free to write your thoughts.

Only thing Riot needs to do is make abilities like Grasp, Bandit, etc, proc like they should. A ranged Poppy attack or a ranged Parrley should not proc them as if they are melee.

That's it.

As a GP main I regularly get about 300-400 gold from Qing a melee laner. Usually about 800ish from Parrley bonus gold if it's not an excessive farm lane. Make Q on face give 3 gold, not 10. I'll still Q your face over and over, but I'll be getting 100-150 gold instead of almost 500 gold every game from doing so. That's a very significant nerf.

hhaavviikk3 votes

what about adding a mana cost to his barrels? from what I can tell he doesn't have to manage his mana much since the barrels he spams all over the place carefree cost no mana

statelesskiller7 votes

W mana cost is actually stupid high. giving him a mana cost on his barrels would make things . . . very difficult for him. might be worth looking into. but if they did i would think they should revert his W mana nerfs they did

Punching Top6 votes

revert his W mana nerfs they did

Reverting old nerfs? Nice joke, we are talking about Riot Games here.

Spoofghoul2 votes

compensation buffs then

ekko gets them all the time i say we do a similar thing to GP

+10 manacost on barrel +20.0 total ad ratio per wave on ult

thats rougly how ekko is treated so GP should be treated the same kappa

The Deckowner3 votes

Honestly his ult need to be changed in some way, maybe make it less global like ryze's ult, or reduce the slow or the dmg.

Sahn Uzal12 votes

They already nerfed the damage, the cooldown, and I think the slow got nerfed aswell at some point. It feels fuckign aweful to use at rank 1

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

I'm just answering here so my post doesn't get lost. What do you say about his Q proccing grasp? Imo that's one of the most oppressive mechanics of his kit. Same with yasuo btw on his Q. I'm fine with GP in general but against a hard matchup he just takes grasp and not only deals crazy dmg with Q+Sheen+grasp but also heals himself on TOP of the problems with bandit u mentioned...

Sahn Uzal1 votes

I think its a toxic strategy that should not be kept Viable. Which it is not, right now. IMO, Grasp needs to be changed so it's stronger on tanks, but won't appeal to champs like GP. Removing the damage on Grasp and increasing the healing could be a good change....

Ralanr2 votes

I'll be completely honest, I didn't know that bandit gave gold from hitting enemy champions till about a week ago.

And your nerf would hurt melee supports in their gold income.

Granted my idea is to remove the gold on hit and maybe increase the gold gain from minions dying around you to +2 instead of +1, but this may break things a lot more.

Sahn Uzal4 votes

Why would it? Melee supports won't attack outside of melee range. Gangplanks Q is a melee attack outside of melee range.

Also, someone just posted a potentially better alternative anyway right here

Ralanr2 votes

I'm just guessing (and I'm an unranked scrub so bear with me) (probably used the wrong word) it's because a melee support will then get less money out of short trades.

Sahn Uzal4 votes

No, what I suggested is that Bandit only counts an attack as melee, if the damage is actually dealt in melee range. A melee support would never notice a difference. Gangplank, who has a melee attack at ranged-range, would notice it.

Ralanr4 votes

Ah. I must have misinterpreted your content. My apologies.

Getcuxcd2 votes

tldr im a scared GP main that doesnt want his real overpoweredness (which is his ult DMG) to be balanced out so i propose some shtty nerf that wont affect my manfu much just think how overloaded his ult is 0 ap super high base MAGIC dmg low CD GLOBAL AOE SLOW C C LONG DURATION PROCS THUNDERLORD WHYY?!?

Sahn Uzal6 votes

tldr im a scared GP main that doesnt want his real overpoweredness (which is his ult DMG) to be balanced out so i propose some shtty nerf that wont affect my manfu much just think how overloaded his ult is

What? If that were true I would just claim he is perfectly fine and use his shitty winrates as an arguement.

low CD

180 seconds is low? The only ult with a longer CD is Karthus, who has a 200 seconds CD. Are you fucking high?

Getcuxcd2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0E2I6rL,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2016-09-09T17:36:20.526+0000)

just think how overloaded his ult is

What? If that were true I would just claim he is perfectly fine and use his shitty winrates as an arguement.

180 seconds is low? The only ult with a longer CD is Karthus, who has a 200 seconds CD. Are you fucking high?

first of all his winrates are pretty high they dropped alittle bit but like weeks ago they were about 53% LOL and winrates and statistics lie ALOT second GPs build is based around upping his %CDR increasing it by runes/mastery boots yomuus etc so its easy to max it and when its maxed (which is super easy to achieve hell it doesnt even need to be maxed abt 20-25% is enough) its way too low for the impact that it has on the game (about a minute)

Sahn Uzal3 votes

4-5% is not a little bit. Practically everyone gets max CDR these days because its pretty hard to not build CDR. Ganpglanks ult CD is still extremely long compared to most. Also,

180/160/140

108/96/84 with max CDR. At rank 3 it starts getting close to a minute.

Really dude? Fucking really?

Getcuxcd2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0E2I6rL,comment-id=0011000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T17:53:20.029+0000)

4-5% is not a little bit. Practically everyone gets max CDR these days because its pretty hard to not build CDR. Ganpglanks ult CD is still extremely long compared to most. Also,

180/160/140

108/96/84 with max CDR. At rank 3 it starts getting close to a minute.

Really dude? Fucking really?

its still too low im gonna admit the cd nerf 2 3 weeks ago was fine but what i like is to reduce the damage more nothing else its just stupid. i would be fine with it if its like 120 cd without even buying cdr if it doesnt do so much stupid damage id rather get hit by a barrel than get ulted by this stupid ult its so damn overloaded

Sahn Uzal3 votes

The base damage already feels aweful at rank 1.

In the lategame, he rarely even uses it globally. About the base damage arguement. Riot COULD reduce the base damage, but let it scale with AD... But that would mean a very AD Heavy GP build would have some rediculous value.

item 3078 item 3031 item 3158 item 3087 item 3046 item 3036 This is a pretty standard GP build atm. If we were to make GP's ult damage rely on AD.... item 3078 item 3508 item 3031 item 3009 item 3087 item 3036 Gangplank might just start building more AD, and get even higher damage output. Is that REALLY what you want?

Getcuxcd2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0E2I6rL,comment-id=001100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T18:07:45.704+0000)

The base damage already feels aweful at rank 1.

In the lategame, he rarely even uses it globally. About the base damage arguement. Riot COULD reduce the base damage, but let it scale with AD... But that would mean a very AD Heavy GP build would have some rediculous value.

item 3078 item 3031 item 3158 item 3087 item 3046 item 3036 This is a pretty standard GP build atm. If we were to make GP's ult damage rely on AD.... item 3078 item 3508 item 3031 item 3009 item 3087 item 3036 Gangplank might just start building more AD, and get even higher damage output. Is that REALLY what you want?

lmao the damage feels awful for you becuz ur the one who plays gangplank and you probs expect a fucking pentakill no they dont have to put ad scaling LMAO WHY do you think that everytime theres a nerf there should be a compensation? fkin lame logic just nerf it make it balanced gg done

Sahn Uzal2 votes

lmao the damage feels awful for you becuz ur the one who plays gangplank and you probs expect a fucking pentakill

Not really...

no they dont have to put ad scaling LMAO WHY do you think that everytime theres a nerf there should be a compensation? fkin lame logic just nerf it make it balanced gg done

You were complaining about the fact that it's a base damage spell. I point out changing it to a non-base damage reliant spell wouldn't work out well either and youre still complaining.

Bagguette2 votes

I play fiora and riven, I think fighters kind of fuck gp don't they?

MugyvrNinja1 votes

But later in the game you can Compensate for that gold loss his wave clear is top five with a shyv

Sahn Uzal3 votes

My suggested changes would make it much harder for him to reach that ''later in the game'' where he can kill minions very quick. It would not only be easier to bully him, it would also be harder for him to get the items he needs.

MugyvrNinja1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0E2I6rL,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T12:27:49.295+0000)

My suggested changes would make it much harder for him to reach that ''later in the game'' where he can kill minions very quick. It would not only be easier to bully him, it would also be harder for him to get the items he needs.

Im in silver so late game for me is pretty ruff ;/

Sahn Uzal2 votes

Imagine you are playing versus a Fiddlesticks. You want to prevent him from ulting on your team by deep warding and warding over walls, right?.

Now apply that same logic to Gangplank, you want to deep ward enemy territory, so he can't hide his barrels over walls. If you are walking up, and you see him place that second barrel, get ready to walk back as soon as he Q's, so he will miss his third barrel.

Gangplanks E cast range is 2 barrels long, so to do a 3 barrel combo in a straight line, he has to be infront of the first barrel, and behind the second one. You can kinda imagine the range in your head.

With 45% cdr, it takes Gangplank ~5.5 seconds to recharge 1 barrel. If you see Gangplank waste all 3 his barrels, you know you have 16.5 seconds before he can do another 3 barrel combo. If he tries to just place one barrel and shoot it, make sure 2 or more people just AA the barrel once so he can't out lasthit you.

Hope you can do something with those tips :)

Edinboro1 votes

You can't just say this isn't a QQ thread when it is. triggered

Sahn Uzal5 votes

I adressed the core issues that keep him from being a healthy and balance-able champion, and suggested a way to fix them. I don't see how that's considered QQ...

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