Warmog's is a noob trap

IllllllIIIIlllll·Jul 13, 2015·9 votes·2,135 views

You don't want to get it early, because then you won't have resistances (guess what health is worthless without). Besides, there's , which is infinitely more slot efficient and puts pressure on the enemy carries. But what about the sustain? Guess what? You don't need sustain by the time you get Warmog's. In a 15 second long teamfight, Warmogs will give you around 100 more health. 100 health... gee.

Seriously, please don't include Warmog's in your core build and buy it every single game. There are better alternatives.

41 Comments

DurzakaJul 13, 20156 votes

Totally gonna build Frozen Mallet on Zac.

Yep.

Definitely.

TikailJul 13, 20151 votes

The no shit first thing that popped into my head after reading this was a skin idea for Zac.

It's Boogeyman Zac. He's dressed up to look like a big blobby(?) Fiddlesticks and he swings a hammer that's the shape of Poppy (who in turn swings a hammer.)

NemeBroJul 13, 20155 votes

I thought that was common knowledge. Only weird guys like Mundo and Garen can get a Warmog's every game and consider it a good purchase. I still get it on other people, but it's situational.

ShuffledPancakeJul 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I thought that was common knowledge. Only weird guys like Mundo and Garen can get a Warmog's every game and consider it a good purchase. I still get it on other people, but it's situational.

Shen can too, even soraka.

NemeBroJul 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Shen can too, even soraka.

I forgot about Shen, but yeah I do usually build it on him.

BeerOfRoot4843Jul 13, 20151 votes

I buy it on Trundle sometimes for health regen overkill.

5000000000000000Jul 13, 20153 votes

It's a horrible purchase on Soraka. The passive health regen is not worth the increased healing cost.

Duke AnaxJul 13, 20151 votes

The passive directly counters the health cost, because it is percentage as well. When you heal once you get your health back after 20 seconds. Which is quite a lot, especially if you have trouble using Q.

5000000000000000Jul 13, 20151 votes

20 seconds? How long do teamfights last?

Duke AnaxJul 13, 20151 votes

the game is more than just teamfights.

also after two heals you have 640 health more left than without Warmogs, that makes it easier to survive the teamfight long enough for a third heal.

5000000000000000Jul 14, 20151 votes

You have your Q to heal yourself. With 40% CDR you can spam Q and W to heal yourself and your allies.

The12thman94Jul 14, 20151 votes

Zac

KoldheartedjspJul 13, 20154 votes

what if I'm building cinderhulk?

isn't warmogs one of the betterp urchases?

Critmaster GarenJul 13, 20154 votes

the real reason why warmorgs is a noob trap.

item 3153

"lets give the adc a larger health pool to lifesteal off"

health is a noob trap, armor is a noob trap. there is no right way to itemize a tank anymore. you might aswell build straight damage, because past 30 minutes all those defensive items in your inventory lose 50% of their value.

you just need enough health to not get bursted by stray aoe damage. but other than that, tanks are dead again imo. theyll soon be entirely replaced by long range mages again, to snipe those broken ass adc from a distance.

TaredomJul 13, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvQHXaxw,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-07-13T10:52:03.907+0000)

the real reason why warmorgs is a noob trap.

"lets give the adc a larger health pool to lifesteal off"

health is a noob trap, armor is a noob trap. there is no right way to itemize a tank anymore. you might aswell build straight damage, because past 30 minutes all those defensive items in your inventory lose 50% of their value.

you just need enough health to not get bursted by stray aoe damage. but other than that, tanks are dead again imo. theyll soon be entirely replaced by long range mages again, to snipe those broken ass adc from a distance.

Bork is very strong, I agree but I feel like you're inflating it's value against armor and health, it's current health (aside from the on use) that is mitigated by armor, you don't literally hit something for 8% of their health (unless you managed to snag a crazy amount of ArP and a LW) Also if it's such an issue, build a Randuins or Frozen Heart? Tanks can itemize against carries as well, that's the point.

On a separate note, ADCs are supposed to be able to shred tanks in a sustained environment. There is a reason that people say that Tanks > burst (assassin or typical APC) > ADC > Tanks, etc., it's also why it's important to nuke the enemy adc as fast as possible, it takes them time for their damage to level out.

Critmaster GarenJul 13, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Bork is very strong, I agree but I feel like you're inflating it's value against armor and health, it's current health (aside from the on use) that is mitigated by armor, you don't literally hit something for 8% of their health (unless you managed to snag a crazy amount of ArP and a LW) Also if it's such an issue, build a Randuins or Frozen Heart? Tanks can itemize against carries as well, that's the point.

On a separate note, ADCs are supposed to be able to shred tanks in a sustained environment. There is a reason that people say that Tanks > burst (assassin or typical APC) > ADC > Tanks, etc., it's also why it's important to nuke the enemy adc as fast as possible, it takes them time for their damage to level out.

no, sorry. tanks are supposed to even endure adc for a certain time. and that has changed the moment, they buffed borks passive to apply lifesteal. health gets completely countered by bork alone. the value of armor gets cut in half by last whisper and other armor pen sources.

sustained magic damage also puts a damper on your equation. so do adc who have inbuilt burst damage. this game cant be simplified down to rock paper scissors.

would you say this game is too fair, if mages and assassins could kill adc without any chance to avoid the burst? even if a class of champions is supposed to be able to deal with another class of champions, there is a point where theyre too strong.

and dont forget, that adc arent just tank shredders. they shred everyone. their lategame sustained damage is so high because of critical strikes, that they burst other squishies aswell as killing tanks. theyre not forced to specialize their builds against tanks or shquishies. with 3 items, last whisper, bork and infinity edge they can already deal with anyone they want.

TaredomJul 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvQHXaxw,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2015-07-13T11:42:34.670+0000)

no, sorry. tanks are supposed to even endure adc for a certain time. and that has changed the moment, they buffed borks passive to apply lifesteal. health gets completely countered by bork alone. the value of armor gets cut in half by last whisper and other armor pen sources.

Unless you're playing a poke comp, just about anything that latches onto the adc is going to kill it, so the lifesteal isn't as much of the issue. Also most tanks are building around 150-180 armor and MR against balanced teams with about 4-5k health, an adc generally has like 9 ArP and the 30% from last whisper, my math is likely off but that leaves tanks with at least 45% mitigation against AD, so bork is doing about 4% CURRENT health per hit, now that's still potent but everything has to have a counter, ADCs are the counter to tanks. Also it's worth mentioning that a majority of ADCs don't even build bork, you most often see it on tanky duelists, etc.

Also what do you define as a "certain time?" ADCs shred tanks, sure, but even being in the frontline soaking everything, rarely do I feel like I was just bursted down, even late game.

Critmaster GarenJul 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Unless you're playing a poke comp, just about anything that latches onto the adc is going to kill it, so the lifesteal isn't as much of the issue. Also most tanks are building around 150-180 armor and MR against balanced teams with about 4-5k health, an adc generally has like 9 ArP and the 30% from last whisper, my math is likely off but that leaves tanks with at least 45% mitigation against AD, so bork is doing about 4% CURRENT health per hit, now that's still potent but everything has to have a counter, ADCs are the counter to tanks. Also it's worth mentioning that a majority of ADCs don't even build bork, you most often see it on tanky duelists, etc.

Also what do you define as a "certain time?" ADCs shred tanks, sure, but even being in the frontline soaking everything, rarely do I feel like I was just bursted down, even late game.

armorpenetration sources are from runes, masteries, last whisper, and maybe someone on the enemy team with a cleaver. overall it adds up to half your armor being worthless.

bork deals 8% current health in damage and applies lifesteal. its also not affected by thornmail.

and a 4.5k health tank dies in less than 5 seconds to focus fire by lategame. at least if youre not alistar or someone else with high % damage reduction steroids somewhere in your kit. lategame tanks get blown up way too fast. and the buff to borks passive only makes it worse.

TaredomJul 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvQHXaxw,comment-id=00090000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-13T12:11:28.873+0000)

bork deals 8% current health in damage and applies lifesteal. its also not affected by thornmail.

I'm well aware but isn't it physical damage? Unless it reads true damage, it is still affected by resistances, if you build in a balanced manner, you should be sitting at enough resistances to half that (Before black cleaver shredding, which is only somewhat reliable in fights, they say it's rare that in a team fight that you will hit the same target more than 3 times as a melee) 4% is still a lot, but it's still pretty mandatory to have someone taking those hits, rather then the squishies.

Also I stand by my statement of building a randuins or frozenheart, the latter being the better option if this specific scenario is really giving you this much trouble.

On a separate note, thank you for keeping this discussion civil, even though it's likely that you'll not see things my way, it's good to see people mature enough to not resort to insults.

TaredomJul 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvQHXaxw,comment-id=00090000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-13T12:11:28.873+0000)

armorpenetration sources are from runes, masteries, last whisper, and maybe someone on the enemy team with a cleaver. overall it adds up to half your armor being worthless.

bork deals 8% current health in damage and applies lifesteal. its also not affected by thornmail.

and a 4.5k health tank dies in less than 5 seconds to focus fire by lategame. at least if youre not alistar or someone else with high % damage reduction steroids somewhere in your kit. lategame tanks get blown up way too fast. and the buff to borks passive only makes it worse.

Do keep in mind that armor and MR plateau in such a way that at lower amounts of armor, an increase yields a higher actual % physical damage reduction than you would get if you applied the same amount after say 200 armor. The graph that I attached should better explain it, what I'm getting at though is that when considering say the 30% from LW and the 9 ArP from runes and the like 6% from masteries, LoL calculates that against your enemies armor as such: Percent goes against it first, so say you have 180 armor, which means that you are probably level 18, with some armor seals and one armor item (you'll likely have a bit more, but for the sake of the argument) after the 36% shred you end up with 115,2 armor, subtract the flat pen that you get from runes, leaving you with about 105 armor, as we can see from the graph, that brings you from 65% damage reduction to a hair over 50%.

If an ADC has built bork to counter you, because there isn't a hell of a lot of other reason (they likely dropped a defensive item or a second PD for it) you'll still likely be alright.

Critmaster GarenJul 13, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Do keep in mind that armor and MR plateau in such a way that at lower amounts of armor, an increase yields a higher actual % physical damage reduction than you would get if you applied the same amount after say 200 armor. The graph that I attached should better explain it, what I'm getting at though is that when considering say the 30% from LW and the 9 ArP from runes and the like 6% from masteries, LoL calculates that against your enemies armor as such: Percent goes against it first, so say you have 180 armor, which means that you are probably level 18, with some armor seals and one armor item (you'll likely have a bit more, but for the sake of the argument) after the 36% shred you end up with 115,2 armor, subtract the flat pen that you get from runes, leaving you with about 105 armor, as we can see from the graph, that brings you from 65% damage reduction to a hair over 50%.

If an ADC has built bork to counter you, because there isn't a hell of a lot of other reason (they likely dropped a defensive item or a second PD for it) you'll still likely be alright.

thats not how it works.

the resistance formula works in a way, where each point of resistance increases your effective health against a damage type by 1%

meaning if you have 1000 health, and 100 armor you have effectively 2000 health against physical damage.

resistances dont cap out or have diminishing returns. each point of resistance is in principle worth the same. if you get another point of armor when you already have 300, the 1% health increase is less compared with the health pool you already have from the 300 armor.

but the value of resistances does not diminish if you stack more of it. this is a misconception, as a result of how the tooltip for the resistances is formulated. it compares the health you would get from next point of resistance, to the total health pool you already have. it makes people think, that resistances have diminishing returns, when its not the case.

taken from the lol wiki:

Every point of magic resistance requires a unit to take 1% more of its maximum health in magic damage to be killed. This is called "effective health."

Example: A unit with 60 magic resistance has 160% of its maximum health in its effective health, so if the unit has 1000 maximum health, it will take 1600 magic damage to kill it.

What this means: by definition, magic resistance does not have diminishing returns, because each point increases the unit's effective health against magic damage by 1% of its current actual health value whether the unit has 10 magic resistance or 1000 magic resistance.

this means, if you reduce the resistances of a champion by 50%, you cut his effective health in half.

TaredomJul 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvQHXaxw,comment-id=0009000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-07-13T12:36:01.726+0000)

thats not how it works.

the resistance formula works in a way, where each point of resistance increases your effective health against a damage type by 1%

meaning if you have 1000 health, and 100 armor you have effectively 2000 health against physical damage.

resistances dont cap out or have diminishing returns. each point of resistance is in principle worth the same. if you get another point of armor when you already have 300, the 1% health increase is less compared with the health pool you already have from the 300 armor.

but the value of resistances does not diminish if you stack more of it.

The simple math that you gave is right, however (unless they've changed it, if so, please provide a reputable source) the only reason that works is because 100 armor = 50% damage reduction, whereas 200 is only 67%. as indicated by the graph that I linked. I understand how physical health versus a certain damage type works, for simplicity, we are talking about armor versus AD and how health factors in.

The graph shows that with 1000 health:

an AD hits you first and, to use 100 Armor increments, leaves you with the following amount of health based on your Armor:

100 Armor -> 500 health remaining

200 Armor -> 666 health remaining

300 Armor -> 750 health remaining

400 Armor -> 800 health remaining

So in the argument of armor versus AD, my statement stands.

When I say armor has diminishing returns, I'm referring to the amount of return that you get from stacking more armor and how it interacts with last whisper and armor pen. This conversation has gone far beyond what I expected.

The only point that I'm trying to make is that once you reach a certain armor point, last whisper interacts differently in that while it will reduce more armor, that armor that it is reducing is less valuable. I'm not sure how else to explain it, you seem like a bright fellow so hopefully you understand what I mean.

Sire HippingtonJul 13, 20151 votes

you prettymuch have proven Critmaster Garen right here.

The graph shows that with 1000 health:

an AD hits you first and_(going by your numbers he hit's for 1000)_, to use 100 Armor increments, leaves you with the following amount of health based on your Armor:

100 Armor -> 500 health remaining

200 Armor -> 666 health remaining

300 Armor -> 750 health remaining

400 Armor -> 800 health remaining

So vs a 0 armor target, the adc needs 1 hit to kill in this example, vs a 100 armor target he needs 2 hits, vs a 400 armor target he needs 5 hits. So every 100 armor increase your effecktive health by 1000 in this example, and thus increase the number of hits that the adc needs by 1, which looks like a perfect ecample of linear scaleing without any diminishing returns...

in fact, the armor the target has, the more effeckt LW has.

We again use 1000 health and 1000 damage as example.

If you have LW vs a 250armor target, you reduce it's armor t by 100, so 150 left( i use 40% aroen for simplicity, with the masteries+LW you'd be at ~39%) This means you need 2.5 rather than 3.5 hits, so the pen of LW would equal 1000raw damage for this scenario.

If you have LW cs a 500 armor target, the armor gets reduced by 200, down to 300. So you need 4 rather than 6 hits, which means the pen of LW equals 2000raw damage for this scenario.

note that relative to the scenario without LW, you need 33,3% less raw damage with LW vs 500 armor, while it's only ~28,6% vs 250 armor.

TaredomJul 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvQHXaxw,comment-id=000900000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-13T13:32:27.405+0000)

you prettymuch have proven Critmaster Garen right here.

The graph shows that with 1000 health:

an AD hits you first and_(going by your numbers he hit's for 1000)_, to use 100 Armor increments, leaves you with the following amount of health based on your Armor:

100 Armor -> 500 health remaining

200 Armor -> 666 health remaining

300 Armor -> 750 health remaining

400 Armor -> 800 health remaining

So vs a 0 armor target, the adc needs 1 hit to kill in this example, vs a 100 armor target he needs 2 hits, vs a 400 armor target he needs 5 hits. So every 100 armor increase your effecktive health by 1000 in this example, and thus increase the number of hits that the adc needs by 1, which looks like a perfect ecample of linear scaleing without any diminishing returns...

in fact, the armor the target has, the more effeckt LW has.

We again use 1000 health and 1000 damage as example.

If you have LW vs a 250armor target, you reduce it's armor t by 100, so 150 left( i use 40% aroen for simplicity, with the masteries+LW you'd be at ~39%) This means you need 2.5 rather than 3.5 hits, so the pen of LW would equal 1000raw damage for this scenario.

If you have LW cs a 500 armor target, the armor gets reduced by 200, down to 300. So you need 4 rather than 6 hits, which means the pen of LW equals 2000raw damage for this scenario.

note that relative to the scenario without LW, you need 33,3% less raw damage with LW vs 500 armor, while it's only ~28,6% vs 250 armor.

Yeah, apparently I had problems articulating what I was saying because I laid down for a bit and it just hit me, the simplest way that I thought to put it for the last whisper comment would be that last whisper effectively reduces the effective health of the target. The words diminishing returns seems relative in this regard, between actual armor percentages and how it interacts with health, it applies to armor but once mixed with health, it doesn't.

You worded what I've been trying to express and apparently I completely misunderstood the point that he was trying to make (apparently the same thing.) Because if you look at everything that I said in the post with the graph, it's what this follows, the logic behind it is the same, the delivery is just different, this is easier to understand once you're in the mindset. Thank you.

TaredomJul 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvQHXaxw,comment-id=0009000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-07-13T12:36:01.726+0000)

thats not how it works.

the resistance formula works in a way, where each point of resistance increases your effective health against a damage type by 1%

meaning if you have 1000 health, and 100 armor you have effectively 2000 health against physical damage.

resistances dont cap out or have diminishing returns. each point of resistance is in principle worth the same. if you get another point of armor when you already have 300, the 1% health increase is less compared with the health pool you already have from the 300 armor.

but the value of resistances does not diminish if you stack more of it. this is a misconception, as a result of how the tooltip for the resistances is formulated. it compares the health you would get from next point of resistance, to the total health pool you already have. it makes people think, that resistances have diminishing returns, when its not the case.

taken from the lol wiki:

this means, if you reduce the resistances of a champion by 50%, you cut his effective health in half.

Gah, you and your edits :P

I'm simply trying to explain armors interaction beyond 100, each point of armor beyond that is less valuable, think of it as a buffer against shred.

Unless I am absolutely wrong, next time when building a tank mouse over your defensive stats though, I feel like I'm not articulating myself well at all.

Edit: So from what I'm gathering that your saying is the game looks at effective health - damage x shredding + pen? Or something like that? I would think it would look at it as Mitigation devided by shred - pen, apply damage to health? (Or something to that effect)

2nd edit: And of course effective health being a say 200 armor means 300% health, ex 1000 would be 3000 effective health vs AD applied into the first formula)

Because apparently I simply don't get it and the way that it works is not at all how I imagined.

Friggin 3rd edit: And the pen would also work in a percentage for the first formula. This all seems completely backwards and unintuitive.

Earl EulrichJul 13, 20154 votes

yea, it´s really ridiculous how little health tanks are allowed to regain infight while adcs (and vlad) are allowed to heal thousands of hitpoints while dealing massive amounts of dmg...

CindikleJul 13, 20153 votes

It's not a weak item.

But generally as a tank you want the 3k+ items that give you more.

Warmogs is a great item if you're behind in gold.

Frozen Mallet costs 800 gold more. Doesn't really compare much with that in mind since all it gives is a slow that doesn't stack anymore and some attack. Which may not really be useful to your champion.

Each item has it's use. Both are niche. Neither are worthless. Neither should be blindly built though.

TaredomJul 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's not a weak item.

But generally as a tank you want the 3k+ items that give you more.

Warmogs is a great item if you're behind in gold.

Frozen Mallet costs 800 gold more. Doesn't really compare much with that in mind since all it gives is a slow that doesn't stack anymore and some attack. Which may not really be useful to your champion.

Each item has it's use. Both are niche. Neither are worthless. Neither should be blindly built though.

I agree with everything with the exception of your second line. What tank items are about 3k gold? item 3143 is 2850, item 3065 is 2750, item 3102 also 2750, item 3725 2250, item 3190 2800, etc.

Tank builds are super cost effective.

Sire HippingtonJul 13, 20152 votes

thas one off the big problems in this game right now. A fullbuilt tank will have ~4-5k lessgold in his kite than a carry, so in the lategame with 5+items on the carry will just shred tanks apart, while the cstefficency of the items allows tanks to be massive beasts in the midgame. Some people probably like it that way, but as a plyer that is around since the statrt, i miss my lategame fantasy as tank. Back in S2, tanks didn't have that absurd midgame spike, but a lategame onpair with carrys. If the carry could kite you, u still went down eventually, but you didn't got burst down within a morganabinding if focused, which right now sadly is reality once everyone has 5+ items.

CindikleJul 14, 20151 votes

Guess I never pay attention. Could of sworn Omen/SV/BV used to be 3k+ at some point.

I just buy what I need on tanks. Damage dealers have more important choices in what to buy per gold. But they have a larger variety as well.

TaredomJul 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Guess I never pay attention. Could of sworn Omen/SV/BV used to be 3k+ at some point.

I just buy what I need on tanks. Damage dealers have more important choices in what to buy per gold. But they have a larger variety as well.

The problem is tanks scale well into the mid game and kind of well into the late, but are somewhat mandatory. Adc and apc builds cost a lot more gold as mentioned by someone else so when they reach full build they dismantle you faster than you could keep up. Not to mention you have to itemize against ad, ap, health shred and sometimes true damage.

TaredomJul 13, 20152 votes

Slot efficient and cost efficient are two different things, 3300g vs 2500g, so comparing the items, for warmogs you get 100 more health and a passive that is nice midgame while you roam but for 800g more, you get 25 more AD and a slow on your attacks, be sure to take into consideration that now only the strongest slow is applied, so in a team fight, more often then not there are slows going out ever where.

I consider in a lot of cases Frozen Mallet to be a niche buy and often times a noob trap. Also from a junglers perspective, I understand this is a large net loss in health but having a second sightstone on the team is amazing.

Prior to 5.13 though I would have put righteous glory way above both of the items you're comparing, now I only pick it up when the team needs hard engage.

Back to the original discussion though, even though in a lot of ways Frozen Mallet is better, you need to look at how badly you need the slow and how effectively and how reliably you can apply it to the target that you need to. Also consider what that 800g could have gotten you in advancing your build. All I'm saying is that 3300g is a lot of gold for some AD that not everyone needs, 100 less health than warmogs and a slow that might not even matter.

Sire HippingtonJul 13, 20152 votes

Health is far more efficient than resistances in ther early game, unless the enemie rushes BotrK. 800health for 2500g, thats the highest amount of tankiness you can get out of a single iem early on(unlees you fight pure ohysical or pure magical damage) By the point you can affort wamongs, you will have below 1600hp on nearly any champ, so warmongs increases you effecktive HP by over 50%, while adding nice sustain on top. you would need over 100armor and mr to achive the same with resistances, and that is asuming you have 0 armor and 0 mr...(every point of armor or mr makes the health of warmongs even more valuable compared to what resitances would offer)

Frzenmallet is the bigger noobtrap outside off specific cases, as it costs nearly 1k more gold to offer 100 less health. Unless you can really abuse the slow, it's a terrible item...

I#m not saing it's a great idea to rush warmongs as first item every game on any tanky champ, but it is far from beeing a noob trap.

pE4CbxDPQOJul 13, 20151 votes

Volibear

pleepJul 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=fght ff yr dmns,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvQHXaxw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-07-13T05:12:07.051+0000)

frozen mallet is better in every circumstance

PierreAndreisJul 13, 20151 votes

I always get in Soraka after finish the sup item, boots and sightstone. It makes me "tanky" to resist the poke from the enemy laner and gives me regen for my heal

TheVishualJul 13, 20151 votes

You know I had a match today where I was 5 item panth vs a full ad team and I already had randuin and max cdr... Very situational but I think thats one of the situations where I'd take it over something like hexdrinker

SoberToasterJul 13, 20151 votes

I will buy it as a bruiser once in awhile if i go 4 offense items, boots, then to top it with a defense i'll just throw a blanket of hp on my dude with mogs.

CoolKnightSTJul 13, 20151 votes

You missing the point on building warmogs. You buy it when you are in a situation the enemy team already has enouge penetration to gut to your defensive when you already have enouge resistances & armor or when the enemy team is full AP and you have already enouge magic resistance while your still low on health. Basicly on supportive tanks come close for a situation to buy it. Some build examples:

+
+
+ + (when the enemy only has 1 AP thread that is mostly single target or when this AP tread is AOE but your support already has )
+ + + (when the enemy team their adc is really far behind and your primary problem is burst

Note that with supportive tanks I'm reffering to champions like Nautilus Maokai Sejuani . Still note that picking item 3083 over item 3800 is mainly decided by:

How dangerious is their burst?
Do you have enouge engage tools?
Can the less tankier option finish you the game faster ( for example, if you didn't build armor yet & you have to decide between warmogs & rightious glory I would go warmogs in some of these situations because I'm not ready yet to tank turrets yet when their burst is so oppressive.

Still note I can agrea that the passive doesn't feel that effective if you don't play with a champion that already has something similar build into it ( Garen Volibear ). But honnestly I don't think their are many options. Maybe reduce the time for be into combat or disable the option that it goes into cooldown by minion agro.

CatastropJul 13, 20151 votes

Frankly I find it only useful on people with, % HP Heals, or HP related scalings. Other than that yeah, not much use.

arc95Jul 13, 20151 votes

old item 3083 was so much better 1000 hp and less HP regen...

but it kind of is a noob trap it really isnt to useful unless you looking for some "general survivability" on a carry champ but even then GA is better

that being said it is still good on certain champs and in certain situations...like Garen item 3083 item 3065 ...that 120 hp regen with his passive, the only time he would need to back is when he dies or wants to buy