Aatrox's Passive needs to be a little bit stronger. He lacks movement speed.

DonnieDarkin·Mar 20, 2017·15 votes·1,682 views

I get that Riot wants to not have his revive always available. Fine. However, his current Blood Rush is not the easiest thing to keep active or sometimes even acquire depending on the situation.

One thing that would help is improving his ability to chase down enemies. Keep it windowed in Blood Rush and allow it to be something that benefits him based on how much missing health the last champion that Aatrox hit has.

So for example "During Blood Rush Aatrox is Ghosted (he looks cool hovering) and gains 1% movement speeds for every 5% of the targets missing health"

This would make reward him for getting an enemy down to low health, and allow him to chase, which in turn helps him of course get kills but also makes it easier to keep his Blood Rush active. If you run the numbers I think you would see the bonus movement speed is going to range from 5%-25%, but more typically 10%-20% if chasing a squishy carry missing half health thru nearly all of it.

Too strong? Still not enough for Aatrox?

49 Comments

Troy242621Mar 20, 20172 votes

They could just throw a flat MS boost onto Massacre, since you pretty much need your ultimate to sustain your passive anyways. That way it's less universally accessible and limited solely to his all-ins.

Because of his massive cooldowns and profoundly telegraphed CC, there is still ample counterplay; juke the CC (possible without using mobility, so it's universal counterplay), CC him or focus him down to pop his passive.

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

That could work too.

Also what could work is just move his base movement speed to 350. There is no reason for him to be moving at 345 while Nasus moves at 350 for some reason.

Mostro GalloMar 20, 20171 votes

What I don't understand is why his ultimate doesn't fill up, at the very least, 20% of his bloodwell upon cast.

What a lazy rework, I'm still embarrassed for Riot for releasing something so unpolished.

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

Trash tier company posing as something they are not.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20172 votes

as a one trick aatrox, his passive needs 1 adjustment, to be capped at 80 and not 100 so its actually viable to proc it when needed.

Take ghost / flash if youre laning, flash / blue smite if youre jungling, he doesnt need mobility, he needs his passive to be more accessable

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20172 votes

As a 1 trick as well, what are you saying is the same as making his abilties and W fill 25% percent. I would rather keep the nice while number of 100.

I always run ghost for the very reason that his chase is so poor. I would run flash if his chase was better.

With respect, I think you are very much underestimating the overall negative effect of an Aatrox not being able to chase down a malphite or Jihn while he has Black Cleaver and BOTRK.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

As a 1 trick as well, what are you saying is the same as making his abilties and W fill 25% percent. I would rather keep the nice while number of 100.

I always run ghost for the very reason that his chase is so poor. I would run flash if his chase was better.

With respect, I think you are very much underestimating the overall negative effect of an Aatrox not being able to chase down a malphite or Jihn while he has Black Cleaver and BOTRK.

malphite can spam Q on you all day long... plus... why would you chase a TANK?

jhin cant out run you, if youre getting kited by jhin, youre playing aatrox very VERY wrong. he can hit you then root you, very telegraphed. His move speed is negligable because landing a single E lets you stick to him unless you miss that or your Q. Also you should be bursting him 100-0 ( you probably run fervor when you should be running thunderlords )

as far as black cleaver, theres better options given the current aatrox kit ( granted phylol hasnt posted a video on new good builds so people think the old shit is still whats best, when its really not )

item 3153 item 3124 item 3047 item 3046 item 3143 this is your new core: 6th item is your choice

Tiamat / hydras have no place in the new aatrox setup

You need guinsoos for double proc opression

Randuins helps with crit / sticking / heavy range damage

Tabis are obvious expecially with lethality

Phantom isnt for the chase, its for the 12% reductiona and attack speed which synergizes stupidly well with tabis / phantom

MR is covered by scaling blues, or you can opt for an MR item, but its typically pointless.

Black cleavers shred isnt neccesary, nor is its HP / damage. About the only reason to take BC is for the CDR which isnt really that helpful because aatrox is primarily AA based, and his ult is already a very low CD

Regardless of whos a one trick or not, adaptation is the only way to excell.

The slow on randuins is so undervalued in aatrox its actually kinda funny.

Q-> randuin -> botrk-> E = damn near 8-10 seconds of slows, which gives your Q time to refresh, if you havent killed your target by this point, youre probably gonna die

Ghost + flash are the ONLY viable summoners unless you jungle.

Exhaust / ignite serve little use compared to these 2.

We can debate all day, this is my 2 cents, take it or leave it, but aatrox is actually getting better when you learn to manage his passive at 4 stacks, but i do agree 100% that he should get 25% per ability whether its reducing the passive to 80 and making each give him 20 flat, or keeping it at 100 and making the abilities grant 25 flat

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

Name me which top laners don't have a way to increase their movement speed?

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Name me which top laners don't have a way to increase their movement speed?

no one is saying they dont have a way to increase their move speed, but if you insist Tryndamere - has a mobility ability but no way to increase actual move speed Renekton - has a mobility ability but no way to increase actual move speed Nasus - has no way to increase move speed Quinn - asside from ult which is an ENGAGE, has no way to increase actual move speed Camille - has a mobility ability ( 2 actually ) has no way to increase move speed Darius - has no way to increase actual move speed Fiora - has a mobility ability, but no way to increase actual move speed Gangplank - has no way to increase his move speed Vayne -not typically a top laner but ( her passive increases her engage speed, but not disengage ) outside that has no way to increase move speed

I could go on, but i just gave you plenty of cases where youre wrong. If you cant stick to a target, the issue is still YOU and YOUR build, and missing your skill shots / abilities, and has nothing to do with aatrox's kit.

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

Tryndamere Darius do way more damage. They have built in crits and true damage.

Renekton does way more damage and has a better and harder to predict hard CC, and his dash gives him very good mobility

Quinn is not melee nor comparable. She doesn't factor into this debate

Nasus has 5 more base movement speed. And if you say it doesnt matter, than there should be no reason not to let Aatrox start at 350 as well

Camille has incredibly mobility and also gets to do all sorts of mixed damage, unlike Aatrox

Fiora can block incoming damage and do way more damage than Aatrox.

Innate: Gangplank's next basic attack burns the target, dealing 30 - 200 (based on level) (+ 100% bonus AD) bonus true damage over 2.5 seconds and granting Gangplank Trial by Fire2 30% bonus movement speed for 2 seconds. Turrets receive 「 50% reduced damage 」.

Nice research on that one.

And you can't go on. Generally speaking the ones you listed are champions that are compensated by having more damage and better CC and/or defensive abilities like parrying or gaining instead health or resistances. So I am fine with Aatrox not having extra movement speed in his kit if he gets some magic damage, true damage, %health damage or a way to reduce incoming damage.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

As a 1 trick as well, what are you saying is the same as making his abilties and W fill 25% percent. I would rather keep the nice while number of 100.

I always run ghost for the very reason that his chase is so poor. I would run flash if his chase was better.

With respect, I think you are very much underestimating the overall negative effect of an Aatrox not being able to chase down a malphite or Jihn while he has Black Cleaver and BOTRK.

Just another response to your post

in your last 30 games you have 7 aatrox games

in my last 30 games, i have 29 aatrox games.

Maining vs 1 trick is slightly different.

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

Okay, well if you are not smart enough to figure out that this is a new account, you shouldn't comment on my post. I have thousands and thousands of ranked Aatrox games. Stop trying to stroke your own ego and cut me down by looking at the match history and ADDRESS THE TOPIC AND ARGUMENTS.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Okay, well if you are not smart enough to figure out that this is a new account, you shouldn't comment on my post. I have thousands and thousands of ranked Aatrox games. Stop trying to stroke your own ego and cut me down by looking at the match history and ADDRESS THE TOPIC AND ARGUMENTS.

go ahead and post the names of those accounts since you wanna turn to being toxic or better yet get on one of them and post on here

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

No. The fact that the first thing you thought to do when you disagreed with me is try to prop yourself up and cut me down shows that you are not a person worth talking to.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No. The fact that the first thing you thought to do when you disagreed with me is try to prop yourself up and cut me down shows that you are not a person worth talking to.

there is no cutting you down, only you being proven wrong over and over and over and over and over, and youre just posting in here because you lost a game with aatrox and not because of any other reason

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

Haha how have you proved me wrong? You agree that Aatrox is weak right now right?

So there are a few options

1)buff his base stats 2)change/buff his passive 3)buff his abilities

If i argued he need more base stats, you would argue against me. I argue his passive needs movement boost, you argue it, if were to argue his abilities needed buffing, you would argue that.

That is just what you do. So there is no point. type so much but really you say very little.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Haha how have you proved me wrong? You agree that Aatrox is weak right now right?

So there are a few options

1)buff his base stats 2)change/buff his passive 3)buff his abilities

If i argued he need more base stats, you would argue against me. I argue his passive needs movement boost, you argue it, if were to argue his abilities needed buffing, you would argue that.

That is just what you do. So there is no point. type so much but really you say very little.

i agreed he was weak? no i agreed his passive needed a 5% tweak on his abilities filling his bloodwell to make him feel smoothe and well rounded.

I play aatrox just fine.

Feel free to continue posting, i will no longer reply to someone with an IQ lower than an apple

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

This is my post. You are free to not reply to future posts.

Troy242621Mar 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ultra Rapid Fyre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-03-20T17:42:57.190+0000)

as a one trick aatrox, his passive needs 1 adjustment, to be capped at 80 and not 100 so its actually viable to proc it when needed.

Take ghost / flash if youre laning, flash / blue smite if youre jungling, he doesnt need mobility, he needs his passive to be more accessable

My experience has been that, outside of early game, if you use Q to go in, you're getting CCed or they're popping a mobility skill and you'll never see them again, assuming you even land it. If you save it in anticipation of this, they'll outrun you before you can drop bork/smite.

Granted I'm no Aatrox one trick, so pardon my anecdote.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

My experience has been that, outside of early game, if you use Q to go in, you're getting CCed or they're popping a mobility skill and you'll never see them again, assuming you even land it. If you save it in anticipation of this, they'll outrun you before you can drop bork/smite.

Granted I'm no Aatrox one trick, so pardon my anecdote.

you have a valid point, but again it comes down to knowing when to use an ability and when not to. realistically he NEEDS the 25% of his passive instead of the current 20% per ability to make it useful. Too often, you have to use E and Q randomly just to stack it to 2-3 to make an all in even viable ( granted his ult gives 20% PER target hit with it, but usually this is only 1-2 targets, sometimes 3 ) this is why he needs it to be 25% per ability

Troy242621Mar 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ultra Rapid Fyre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2017-03-20T18:04:03.005+0000)

you have a valid point, but again it comes down to knowing when to use an ability and when not to. realistically he NEEDS the 25% of his passive instead of the current 20% per ability to make it useful. Too often, you have to use E and Q randomly just to stack it to 2-3 to make an all in even viable ( granted his ult gives 20% PER target hit with it, but usually this is only 1-2 targets, sometimes 3 ) this is why he needs it to be 25% per ability

If he could actually stick to people, he could use his ultimate to get/sustain his passive properly. He can trigger his passive all day long, doesn't matter when he literally can't use it.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If he could actually stick to people, he could use his ultimate to get/sustain his passive properly. He can trigger his passive all day long, doesn't matter when he literally can't use it.

no... to "trigger" the passive, you need to fill the blood well, thats aatroxs issue, actually filling the blood well PRECISELY when he needs it. You are missing the point about his problem completely

Troy242621Mar 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ultra Rapid Fyre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-20T18:44:26.733+0000)

no... to "trigger" the passive, you need to fill the blood well, thats aatroxs issue, actually filling the blood well PRECISELY when he needs it. You are missing the point about his problem completely

You can trigger it if you'd like, unless we're talking early game as a laner, it won't do much good when you're kited into oblivion by any competent player.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You can trigger it if you'd like, unless we're talking early game as a laner, it won't do much good when you're kited into oblivion by any competent player.

the point is aatrox has always had his passive available ( the revive portion ) and they have shifted that mechanic to a place where its difficult to properly use.

Sure the active on the passive with the AS boost is a nice feature, and the changes to removing the Q and W health costs is awesome, but that doesnt mean there isnt more work to be done.

Aatrox to even be aatrox, should be able to have that revive either always available when its off CD ( obviously ) OR have it be more easily accessable.

Theres too many times aatrox players are dying with the passive NOT on cooldown, and fundamentally that is wrong for this champion because he has always been based around the "drain tank" and / or the "self revive" champion.

Granted the drain tank aspect has been gone for 2 seasons now, but that revive is more or less his identity, and its almost negligable.

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20172 votes

Very Valid. Stop trying to argue this. Aatrox chase is one of the worst in the game for a fighter or bruiser

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Very Valid. Stop trying to argue this. Aatrox chase is one of the worst in the game for a fighter or bruiser

no hes not. You simply play him poorly MR.ONETRICK even though youre at 7/30 games with aatrox in match history

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

Really? Lets consider the fact that now you build less damage on him and his blood price does less damage..that means even if you catch up to en enemy you aren't going to kill them as quickly as you would used to.

Troy242621Mar 20, 20172 votes

Woah woah. Look, we're all on team Buff Aatrox Into Viability. Let's not be hostile.

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

F that. People come onto my post, which is reasonable and try to say that Aatrox is basically fine, and their arguments are very subejctive, myopic and close minded.

Troy242621Mar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

F that. People come onto my post, which is reasonable and try to say that Aatrox is basically fine, and their arguments are very subejctive, myopic and close minded.

I don't think anyone can defend a sub-40% winrate. Even his mains are struggling, and his inadequacy runs the gamut across every elo.

DunkinNoobsMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't think anyone can defend a sub-40% winrate. Even his mains are struggling, and his inadequacy runs the gamut across every elo.

It's up to 48% now, at least in top lane. I don't count jungle because jungle Aatrox isn't viable anymore.

Troy242621Mar 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's up to 48% now, at least in top lane. I don't count jungle because jungle Aatrox isn't viable anymore.

I like jungletrox :c.

DunkinNoobsMar 21, 20171 votes

I like top lane Leona. They're about as viable as each other.

RalanrMar 20, 20171 votes

Wouldn't building BC help with chasing?

Troy242621Mar 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Wouldn't building BC help with chasing?

Even with BC, Bork and proper orbwalking, I have news for you; you're still probably getting kited.

Plus, with 3 damage items, he can't afford to ever be kited or he's getting bursted, passive popped, then bursted again because lol 5 year cooldowns. He needs long cooldowns to gate his passive but in his current state, it's over the top.

RalanrMar 20, 20172 votes

I'd argue that most melee champions are capable of getting kited more or less.

Why three damage items? Why not two and then go tanky?

Troy242621Mar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'd argue that most melee champions are capable of getting kited more or less.

Why three damage items? Why not two and then go tanky?

Most melees are but Aatrox already has enough counterplay and is particularly punished by kiting, since he loses his passive, and his passive now takes up even more of his power budget. You don't need to have the option of "Just have higher movement speed and walk away to gut his effectiveness" on top of it.

Universally Accessible Counterplay

His Q is hilariously telegraphed, and has a tiny radius.
His E is slightly delayed, slow moving and tapers off at longer ranges.
Kiting him deprives him of his defense and, if he loses his passive/ult, an incredibly amount of his power budget (atk spd, attack range, ad, lifesteal)

Champion Specific Counterplay

CC him, and his passive can usually be popped before it wears off.
grievous wounds
Mobility to avoid his already telegraphed skillshots and kite him until he loses most of his kit.

Semi-Universal Options

cut his lifesteal tanking down
Some champions can favorably run
He needs several items to come online, and thus is prone to being bullied both in lane and in the jungle.

TheHappyReaperzMar 20, 20175 votes

Then you don't deal damage. Your base damage isn't the greatest, and your E and W only scale of bonus AD.

Troy242621Mar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Then you don't deal damage. Your base damage isn't the greatest, and your E and W only scale of bonus AD.

And are easily avoidable. And your survivability indirectly scales with your damage, 'cause Aatrox. I probably wouldn't go 3 if behind but the point is Christ does he already need a lot of items go come online. I don't think saying build BC and be done with it is fair.

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

Yes, but so can any champion. And they mostly all have movement abilities plus a way to increase movement speed. This deficit in Aatrox's kit restricts this build options as well as being inferior to other champions movement abilities.

DunkinNoobsMar 20, 20171 votes

Make his E tag enemies for 5? seconds that grants a speed boost towards them.

DonnieDarkinMar 20, 20171 votes

yeah Ive thought of something like that too. Maybe Aatrox should simply gain movement speed towards any champion that is bleeding and his E should cause bleeding

OyddAWqJ5rMar 21, 20171 votes

Doesn't fit the theme. Just give him the same effect Vlad has on his Blood Rush: slight MS boost for a split second when reaching Blood Rush, refreshing on-hit like Phage.

DonnieDarkinMar 21, 20171 votes

Haha doesn't fit the 3 paragraph theme? What about his theme says he can't have abilities that do stuff and things? Does his theme talk about shooting magic out of his sword?

You are ridiculous

OyddAWqJ5rMar 22, 20171 votes

Lol sorry if my comment was hard to comprehend. What I meant by it is that his "3 paragraph theme" does mention his intervention in losing battles. Why give him an ability that works far better when ahead than behind? He isn't an oppressor or a blood hunter.

And if it wasn't obvious for ya he's obviously a magical being thus shooting magical blades at the cost of his own blood makes thematic sense.

Hope it makes more sense to you now

DonnieDarkinMar 22, 20171 votes

"Lol sorry if my comment was hard to comprehend. What I meant by it is that his "3 paragraph theme" does mention his intervention in losing battles. Why give him an ability that works far better when ahead than behind? He isn't an oppressor or a blood hunter."

Geezus fine, reverse it and give him bonus movement speed during Hellbent based on HIS missing health. Happy?

OyddAWqJ5rMar 23, 20171 votes

Huh, that actually makes sense.