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Most of the complaints about Vladimir come from mid laners which play mages

YumaS2Astral··4 votes·655 views

And this makes sense since when playing against an AP champion Vlad can just rush a item 3065 then become virtually unkillable, both due to the magic resistance and due to the increased sustain. From there he can build full AP. If for some reason Spirit Visage is not enough to deal with the enemy APs, Vlad can also opt to rush item 3001 (or he can even use it in lieu of Spirit Visage for more damage, but this latter is usually considered better as a single magic resistance item for Vlad due to the increased sustain)

It is important to note that Vlad didn't purchased Spirit Visage before because not only he was not allowed to do that due to Will of the Ancients being a mandatory purchase, but also because WotA itself offered enough sustain for Vlad and he didn't needed to use Spirit Visage. Now he does that not only because of the lack of WotA, but also because Vlad's sustain by itself isn't actually that amazing, he needs Spirit Visage for it to be relevant.

Also, APs do not have a good options to itemize against Vlad, for example, Grievous Wounds: They have item 3165, but good luck even getting Vlad below 35% health, especially since with Spirit Visage he becomes incredibly resilient to magic damage. Morellonomicon is also bad for manaless APs due to the mana and passive mana restore on kills being completely wasted. Also, APs do not have a consistent magic resistance option which works for everyone. The closest thing is item 3001 but this item is not attractive for mages which have too long range on their spells due to the aura range being limited. There is also item 3102 but this item does not offer any AP.

Compare to AD champions.

Vlad's currently only good option for armor is item 3157 and this item does not offer that much armor. Other armor options are not nearly as good for Vlad, for various reasons (Thornmail actually used to be viable back before they nerfed the passive)

Also, AD champions have a very good consistent GW option: item 3123. Not only this item activate at any level of health, but all you have to do is deal any sort of physical damage (auto-attacks or spells) and GW is already affecting him.

They also have very good magic resistance options which work for every single AD champion with no downsides: item 3156 item 3139 on top of that, ADs also have lifesteal if they want sustain themselves, while APs have no spellvamp options ever since WotA has been removed (and even when WotA existed, it was good only for very few APs)

TL;DR: Vladimir works very well against APs and is not very good against ADs, and that's due to itemization. I don't know exactly how they could solve this without directly nerfing Vlad, but I think that buffing Morellonomicon is a good start. I don't even know why they nerfed it to begin with.

13 Comments

Erockandroll2 votes

Based on the LCS, the only AD counter to Vlad has been Yasuo. And most of those plays I've seen had lead something to be desired.

I'm just a little skeptical about the idea that AD is the counter to Vlad. I say this mainly because most of your AD midlaners are Assassins. And even when Armor isn't Vlad's strong suit, Your still not going to Just Assassinate a Vald. He's too HP focused.

Maybe you could get away with a siege AD like Varius or Jayce, but that would only work if you can deal more damage than he can sustain.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

Based on the LCS, the only AD counter to Vlad has been Yasuo. And most of those plays I've seen had lead something to be desired.

I'm just a little skeptical about the idea that AD is the counter to Vlad. I say this mainly because most of your AD midlaners are Assassins. And even when Armor isn't Vlad's strong suit, Your still not going to Just Assassinate a Vald. He's too HP focused.

Maybe you could get away with a siege AD like Varius or Jayce, but that would only work if you can deal more damage than he can sustain.

It is not that AD is the counter to Vlad. Is that AD have better itemization against Vlad, and Vlad has worse itemization against AD.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

most of the vlad complaints come from people who have never played against vlad and have no fucking clue what to do not realizing that vlad is one of the many toxic and unbalancable extremes of this game, hence why he is kept perpetually undertuned.

BloodyTompon2 votes

Also range. Vladimir is a short ranged mage with no gap closer. He can't damage you if he can't get near you.

Narvuntien1 votes

{quoted}

Also range. Vladimir is a short ranged mage with no gap closer. He can't damage you if he can't get near you.

That is fakers answer to the problem he plays Anivia into vlad and just never lets him near him.

redniwediS1 votes

Yeah... As a Garen main any time I end up against a high sustain opponent like Vlad, Mundo, or tank Akali I start with a longsword and three potions, just so I can more easily get an Executioner's Calling on my first back. It doesn't completely shut them down, but it definitely evens the playing field.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah... As a Garen main any time I end up against a high sustain opponent like Vlad, Mundo, or tank Akali I start with a longsword and three potions, just so I can more easily get an Executioner's Calling on my first back. It doesn't completely shut them down, but it definitely evens the playing field.

Garen itself has sustain, he could rush a Spirit Visage and become unkillable for them even if he also can't kill them directly.

redniwediS4 votes

Garen has absolutely no in combat sustain, where as all three of the champions I mentioned do. Garen's passive doesn't become meaningful in any way until level 11, which is well after the part of the game I was talking about.

To put it simply if you rely on Garen's "sustain" to help you in a matchup against any of those champions you're going to get zoned and crapped on in no time at all.

Jorencice1 votes

{quoted}

And this makes sense since when playing against an AP champion Vlad can just rush a item 3065 then become virtually unkillable, both due to the magic resistance and due to the increased sustain. From there he can build full AP. If for some reason Spirit Visage is not enough to deal with the enemy APs, Vlad can also opt to rush item 3001 (or he can even use it in lieu of Spirit Visage for more damage, but this latter is usually considered better as a single magic resistance item for Vlad due to the increased sustain)

It is important to note that Vlad didn't purchased Spirit Visage before because not only he was not allowed to do that due to Will of the Ancients being a mandatory purchase, but also because WotA itself offered enough sustain for Vlad and he didn't needed to use Spirit Visage. Now he does that not only because of the lack of WotA, but also because Vlad's sustain by itself isn't actually that amazing, he needs Spirit Visage for it to be relevant.

Also, APs do not have a good options to itemize against Vlad, for example, Grievous Wounds: They have item 3165, but good luck even getting Vlad below 35% health, especially since with Spirit Visage he becomes incredibly resilient to magic damage. Morellonomicon is also bad for manaless APs due to the mana and passive mana restore on kills being completely wasted. Also, APs do not have a consistent magic resistance option which works for everyone. The closest thing is item 3001 but this item is not attractive for mages which have too long range on their spells due to the aura range being limited. There is also item 3102 but this item does not offer any AP.

Compare to AD champions.

Vlad's currently only good option for armor is item 3157 and this item does not offer that much armor. Other armor options are not nearly as good for Vlad, for various reasons (Thornmail actually used to be viable back before they nerfed the passive)

Also, AD champions have a very good consistent GW option: item 3123. Not only this item activate at any level of health, but all you have to do is deal any sort of physical damage (auto-attacks or spells) and GW is already affecting him.

They also have very good magic resistance options which work for every single AD champion with no downsides: item 3156 item 3139 on top of that, ADs also have lifesteal if they want sustain themselves, while APs have no spellvamp options ever since WotA has been removed (and even when WotA existed, it was good only for very few APs)

TL;DR: Vladimir works very well against APs and is not very good against ADs, and that's due to itemization. I don't know exactly how they could solve this without directly nerfing Vlad, but I think that buffing Morellonomicon is a good start. I don't even know why they nerfed it to begin with.

Know a challenger ad. main that told me the best vlad build is absolutely 100% pure tank.

And boy does it deal damage and your unkillable.

VivaLaKitten1 votes

while Vlad is good at tanking and sustaining, Swain just does his job better by Tanking, Sustaining, Dealing Damage, all without having to use any skill shots

VivaLaKitten1 votes

Vlad really only shines in early game, since he becomes pretty much just a tank late game. If he doesn't build tanky, he gets shutdown by massive amounts of cc easily, having to get close to deal dmg puts him at risk his sustain is really only good in laning and he isn't all that hard to avoid either Swain on the other hand . . .

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Meanwhile most any assassin will beat vladimir anyway, because he won't be able to sustain faster than their burst damage.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

hes really strong even in top lane. he needs nerfs in some places and buffs in others. by that i dont mean he needs a straight nerf cuz his winrate aint that high

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