How I see the 2016 season masteries

YumaS2Astral·Dec 28, 2015·180 votes·10,543 views

http://i.imgur.com/reKnmLx.jpg

119 Comments

Maximum MordeDec 28, 201557 votes

It isn't even thunderlord that is op. It's just that deep cunning is better than deep ferocity, and Thunderlord is the only cunning keystone that doesn't suck

RalanrDec 28, 201531 votes

Precision gives better armor and magic pen then the ferocity tree right?

Why? It shouldn't do that.

BirefringenceDec 28, 20158 votes

They did that in an effort to help out AD assassins and it sort of backfired. IIRC they are nerfing it back to normal on the PBE as well as buffing the other keystones to give people more reason to use the ferocity keystones.

AbyssphereDec 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They did that in an effort to help out AD assassins and it sort of backfired. IIRC they are nerfing it back to normal on the PBE as well as buffing the other keystones to give people more reason to use the ferocity keystones.

I don't get why they didn't just buff the AD assassins themselves. Why was "let's make the Cunning tree overpowered" the response to a few champions being weak?

UtilityPunkDec 29, 20152 votes

joking tone Because it affects more than just AD assassins? badum-tsh

In seriousness, I think the biggest problem is that Riot is trying so hard to make winrates and pickrates equal by giving champions a chance to be in the spotlight. In my opinion, everyone just needs to relax and look at the design decisions they make.

In order to add something, you are mitigating part of the meta. for example, if you improve tanky items, you reduce the viability of sustain. Thus burst and piercing come into fashion as a compensatory measure. If the game's elements (what Riot has control over), are unbalanced, then the way players play the game effectively compensates for this, creating a balanced meta.

That meta remains stable until another compensatory gameplay style is found, or until the game elements change. From what I've seen in my short time, the game elements are changing very frequently (and sometimes to a large degree) in this game, so the entire meta shifts every other update.

SpecterVonBarenDec 28, 20152 votes

Not anymore since they nerfed it.

AbyssphereDec 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Not anymore since they nerfed it.

The nerf isn't live yet.

NineTailedMysticDec 28, 20158 votes

Ferocity gives % pen, while Cunning gives Flat pen making it significantly better for laning phase, aka most of a game in this meta.

YumaS2AstralDec 28, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Ferocity gives % pen, while Cunning gives Flat pen making it significantly better for laning phase, aka most of a game in this meta.

Actually, the flat pen from Cunning is better than the % pen from ferocity, until your enemy has 200 armor (or 120 magic resistance for magic damage).

This means that the flat pen is actually better against bruisers unless they are stacking a lot of armor. It is also worse against tanks but other than Malphite, Shen, Mundo, and Volibear, tanks are not popular enough for that to matter.

Talon12Dec 29, 20152 votes

compared to fighter shen, tank shen sucks ballz

YumaS2AstralDec 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

compared to fighter shen, tank shen sucks ballz

Is there any difference between fighter and tank Shen?

Talon12Jan 1, 20161 votes

massive

NineTailedMysticDec 29, 20153 votes

I thought that was what I implied. I had attempted to say Cunning's Flat Pen is FAR greater than Ferocity's % Pen.

The Yetii RiderDec 28, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Precision gives better armor and magic pen then the ferocity tree right?

Why? It shouldn't do that.

Because assassins need pen more than marksmen and mages

Blue Moon WolfDec 28, 201515 votes

Rito: We've noticed Thunderlords is getting picked more than other masteries while only going secondary with ferocity, so we lowered the number of points you can spend on masteries to one skill trees worth. now if you want a keystone mastery, you have to use all your points in one tree :D

GubaguyDec 28, 20151 votes

no, pretty sure its because thunderlords is OP as fck

XonraDec 28, 20157 votes

{quoted}

no, pretty sure its because thunderlords is OP as fck

Sadly it is less Thunderlords being OP and so many other things being lackluster as all hell. They need to further buff the other keystone masteries to an equal level.

GubaguyDec 29, 20152 votes

Lucian at level 1, with a "default" build gains +9 damage. so at level 1 lucian has 66 AD. Now, at level 1 lucian can auto, Q, passive auto auto and isntantl proc thunderlords.

so that means 66+83+66+22+thunderlords 13, now adding all that together you have 250 damage. thats ONE burst in under 2 seconds. at level 1 lucian can burst HALF most ADC's HP, IN ONE SINGLE BURST.

And it only scales up from there, i wont even bother trying to figure out riven's damage, or literally any other rapid ability spamming champion, but the fact is that any ability that can give you a way to deal out 1/3-1/2 a champions HP at level 1 is broken.

GetMariahCarriedDec 28, 20155 votes

I bet it's just the mains you choose. Fervor is pretty beastly on a lot of attack-speed champions. Deathfire grasp is great for dot/aoe champions, like karthus and teemo (don't let the description fool you. The nerfs to dots are to prevent it from being TOO broken on dot champions). I would just say that, while those two types of champions do make a big splash, League has a lot more burst champions, which is why thunderlord's gets all the action.

TerchioDec 29, 20152 votes

I don't get why Deathfire is so hot on DoT/AoE (DoT in particular). Most single-target spell champions can keep DFT up indefinitely without a DoT, as they have a 4-second duration, the same amount as a 3-second DoT. Not many skills get crazy enough durations to obscenely abuse that. I feel Pantheon and Urgot would be best with it, in fact, as they can poke with high power and have basically no lagtime without DFT. The AD focus helps immensely, as well (50% AD is far better than 20% AP).

GetMariahCarriedDec 29, 20152 votes

I think it's more about how long you actually WILL be keeping things up. If you're karthus, you'll be keeping it going for a LOOOOONG time. If you're leblanc though... you basically do you all your damage in a .5 second interval and then walk away for 8 seconds hoping your target is already dead anyway so who cares about dots.

I think to truly identify the advantage of deathfire over thunderlord's, you have to think about how long, during the usual teamfight (which aren't that long usually anyway), you'll be doing damage and to how many champions. Pantheon's in the thick of it for a while, but he only has one short burst aoe (other than his ult), and for the most part focuses a single target, usually a squish that, if he has his way, will be dead in a few seconds anyway. Urgot I can understand more, even though he primarily focuses one or two targets, he spams all day from the beginning to the end of a fight.

Of course there's lane phase to consider also, Panth with deathfire in lane is probably a LOT more effective than thunderlord's. Duel's and trades are a lot more spread out than all-out teamfights.

SpecterVonBarenDec 29, 20152 votes

50% bonus AD isn't better than 20% AP, because AP champions have access to items with higher amounts of AP. As an example, look at Xerath and Zed's most frequent core builds on Champion.gg, Zed at full build has 260 bonus AD from items while Xerath has 648 AP from items.

MysticFlameHazeDec 28, 20152 votes

that's the same excuse everyone gives, thunderlords is broken because the base damage is far to high in the early stages

Maximum MordeDec 28, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kazuto Ishin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FeLr5deg,comment-id=00020004,timestamp=2015-12-28T21:09:56.006+0000)

that's the same excuse everyone gives, thunderlords is broken because the base damage is far to high in the early stages

It's damage is 10xLevel +30% Bonus AD + 10% AP. On a 20 second cooldown. Yeah that's super high. Can I have what you are smoking man? Cause even AP champs have stronger auto attacks than that crap till around level 7 or 8. To put that in perspective three ranged auto attacks with Fervor of Battle that you used to proc Thunderlord at level 1 will do ~8 damage. If you are melee, the number is even better. I mean, every single one of the Ferocity keystones outdamages Thunderlord early except for Warlord's cause you might not have any crit yet to proc it.

YumaS2AstralDec 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FeLr5deg,comment-id=000200040000,timestamp=2015-12-28T21:33:40.944+0000)

It's damage is 10xLevel +30% Bonus AD + 10% AP. On a 20 second cooldown. Yeah that's super high. Can I have what you are smoking man? Cause even AP champs have stronger auto attacks than that crap till around level 7 or 8. To put that in perspective three ranged auto attacks with Fervor of Battle that you used to proc Thunderlord at level 1 will do ~8 damage. If you are melee, the number is even better. I mean, every single one of the Ferocity keystones outdamages Thunderlord early except for Warlord's cause you might not have any crit yet to proc it.

Actually, Warlord's do not do any damage. What this keystone does is giving more sustain to crit based champions.

Maximum MordeDec 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Actually, Warlord's do not do any damage. What this keystone does is giving more sustain to crit based champions.

Warlords grants attack speed, which given that auto attack do more damage than Thunderlord, means Warlords after a single proc grants more damage output than Thunderlord from the extra autos granted. The heal is just icing on the cake.

AkabaneKunDec 28, 201534 votes

"Diversity".

RalanrDec 28, 201510 votes

Blame sheep for only picking what's "OP" not Riots reasons for redoing masteries.

I like the new system, it provides interesting options. I just fucking hate people who only grab something when it's broken.

That's my biggest gripe about the league community. The amount of people who ruin attempts to be diverse.

Fuck thunderlords.

TheDeviceDec 28, 201515 votes

{quoted}

Blame sheep for only picking what's "OP" not Riots reasons for redoing masteries.

I like the new system, it provides interesting options. I just fucking hate people who only grab something when it's broken.

That's my biggest gripe about the league community. The amount of people who ruin attempts to be diverse.

Fuck thunderlords.

Some people might want to use something else... The reason most people choose TL is because they know the enemy team will most likely be all TL lol. So at this point its about trying to mitigate the imbalance, not so much about just picking whats op. If that makes any sense.

KaisadiIIaDec 28, 201513 votes

I grab Thunderlord's Decree on almost every champion because it's far more powerful than any other keystone mastery, or that's my experience, at least. I won't be renouncing to the best mastery and pick a sub-par one just because you think I'm a "sheep".

RalanrDec 28, 20155 votes

My apologies. I was ranting. It's a good option, I just don't like that everyone is taking it because it's the "best" option.

I hate seeing juggernauts with it, I just feel like people don't think about their masteries most of the time.

dr lichdeathDec 28, 20153 votes

well it is broken imo the team with most thunderlords almost autowins

Kuroi86Dec 28, 20151 votes

You've not seen Twitch ult a team with DFT have you?

Diananmen SquareDec 28, 20152 votes

I've tried it and I his poison doesn't apply DFT (if that is what you mean)

manliestdinoDec 29, 20152 votes

Grasp of the Undying is almost always better for champs who are tanky that last long in a fight.

MhihnjDec 30, 20151 votes

I used full ad morde in legend of the poro king with thunderlord's. Items: Sterak's, trinity, Cdr boots, warmogs, hydra and BotRK. any suggestions

Xenos11111Dec 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Blame sheep for only picking what's "OP" not Riots reasons for redoing masteries.

I like the new system, it provides interesting options. I just fucking hate people who only grab something when it's broken.

That's my biggest gripe about the league community. The amount of people who ruin attempts to be diverse.

Fuck thunderlords.

When one option is clearly better than the others and taking anything else decreases your chances of winning lane, that's not the community's fault... it's just Rito's OP balancing.

Remember when Warlord's Bloodlust worked on minions and Yasuo got 15% free lifesteal with 2 items?

RalanrDec 29, 20151 votes

I hated it when everyone grabbed warlords too. I still see Darius Illaoi and Gnar with warlords despite NEVER building crit items.

Xenos11111Dec 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I hated it when everyone grabbed warlords too. I still see and with warlords despite NEVER building crit items.

Then they obviously don't know how to read descriptions.

Linna ExcelDec 28, 201515 votes

Maybe riot should delete masteries and give everyone thunderlords as compensation.

KaisadiIIaDec 28, 201513 votes

Just a regular game this pre-season: http://i.imgur.com/HI4GUpK.png

Kuroi86Dec 28, 20155 votes

Oh gosh. Jax seriously would benefit more from Fervor of Battle. Vayne either from Fervor or Warlords Bloodlust. Nautilus from Strength of the Ages.

Twitch drools over Deathfire Touch Udyr... well he can get away with any keystone except Warlords...

RyzeReworkDec 28, 20153 votes

I usually use fevour then get rage blade and sated and ive 1v5 and walk away with 3 kills lategame

DustyElLionDec 28, 20155 votes

Warlord's Bloodlust is useful to about 3 champions. (Tryn, Yasuo, and maybe Yi. Maybe.)
Deathfire touch has virtually no base damage and requires a bit of AP or AD to match Thunderlord's damage. At level 6 you would need 120 bonus AD or 300 AP to match the base damage of Thunderlords alone not counting it's ratios. Not to mention most of the pokey cast that would thoeratically like Deathfire Touch have AoE poke which gets reduced effectiveness.
Fervor of Battle is decent and pickable on several champions, but since it needs to ramp up in against enemies and doesn't scale it becomes less useful. It's been nerfed already. Also if you are doing this you're missing out on a lot of good pen.
Stormraider's surge is at odds with Thunderlords. If I'm playing someone who can burst hard enough to trigger it I'd rather just burst harder and kill them. Especially since most Assassins already have a slow or evasion ability to stick to their target or get out. It just doesn't fit into the gameplan of its intended champions.
The Penetration offered in Cunning is way better in almost all cases then the percent pen offering in Ferocity. There is no real cost for going 18 cunning. It gives you damage, sustain, and an easy to proc nuke. Either some of that offensive power has to go, or Ferocity needs buffed hard in the damage department. As it is you get most of the relevant masteries in 12-18-0 already. So those last 6 points need to be where a tree REALLY differentiates itself, and right now Cunning is far and away the better choice.

ElegantDogeDec 29, 20152 votes

I'm the only one not finding Thunderlord to be useful on anyone ? Like,i almost never use it on my adc because fervor still give free ad and as a adc,i'll be doing sustained damages so i can stack it pretty quickly or i use the warlord bloodlust on champs like Caitlyn(free as is nice). Or on some bruiser like Fiora ,Riven ,Jax etc.. who can stack fervor insanely quick.Yes ,Thunderlord give me some free damage pretty fast but it's just once every 20 sec after 3 hit. On Fiora,having +80 ad late game with *10 fervor give me even more true damage and it just take a few sec to reach the 10th stack.

I don't know,i agree that because of the nerf on the others,Thunderlord is pretty much mandatory on some champions(almost any mage by example unless you're anivia,Malzahar etc..)

Otherwise i think most players are just being sheeps.

Just today i had a lucian who wanted to fight my Ashe with 6 stacks of fervor (a gank happened before and it got messy)and got completely rekt(i had the oracle lens) .I just had to AA+W+AA and i was at 10 stacks meaning i had+40 ad while his stupid thunderlord was still on CD.

I hope Riot doesn't nerf the mastery or may be change it so people can understand not everything is about Thunderlord.

YumaS2AstralDec 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm the only one not finding Thunderlord to be useful on anyone ? Like,i almost never use it on my adc because fervor still give free ad and as a adc,i'll be doing sustained damages so i can stack it pretty quickly or i use the warlord bloodlust on champs like Caitlyn(free as is nice). Or on some bruiser like Fiora ,Riven ,Jax etc.. who can stack fervor insanely quick.Yes ,Thunderlord give me some free damage pretty fast but it's just once every 20 sec after 3 hit. On Fiora,having +80 ad late game with *10 fervor give me even more true damage and it just take a few sec to reach the 10th stack.

I don't know,i agree that because of the nerf on the others,Thunderlord is pretty much mandatory on some champions(almost any mage by example unless you're anivia,Malzahar etc..)

Otherwise i think most players are just being sheeps.

Just today i had a lucian who wanted to fight my Ashe with 6 stacks of fervor (a gank happened before and it got messy)and got completely rekt(i had the oracle lens) .I just had to AA+W+AA and i was at 10 stacks meaning i had+40 ad while his stupid thunderlord was still on CD.

I hope Riot doesn't nerf the mastery or may be change it so people can understand not everything is about Thunderlord.

Fervor does not give free AD. It gives bonus physical damage to your auto-attacks. It is essentially free AD on autos, but with a key differences: it doesn't boost abilities' scalings, it doesn't crit, and it is treated as an on-hit effect.

ElegantDogeDec 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Fervor does not give free AD. It gives bonus physical damage to your auto-attacks. It is essentially free AD on autos, but with a key differences: it doesn't boost abilities' scalings, it doesn't crit, and it is treated as an on-hit effect.

Yeah i just noticed,just fiora does so much damage late game ididn't notice. But fervor is still my go to on her and any sustained damage dealer really. Especially adcs like Twitch,Ashe,Vayne,Lucian and Ezreal.