The problem isn't mages being bad. Is that AP items are unsatisfying

YumaS2Astral··133 votes·3,949 views

Riot has been shifting most AP items to utility instead of making them purely offensive. Another problem is that they have been shoving CDR into most AP items, taking away power budget that could instead be relocated into more AP, or other useful stats for mages, or even their passives. The few purely offensive AP items are too expensive and have poor build paths, or are situtional (can't be used effectively by most mages).

item 3165 has been a staple to mages for a long time. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but there are no good alternative items for most mages to solve their mana problems. item 3027 and item 3030 both lack the CDR from Morellonomicon. item 3003 has a horrible build path, takes too long to stack, and by the time that you stack it, most games are over. By purchasing item 3070 you also kill your early game potential. This item is great late game, but as long as this meta is early game focused, Tear will simply not be an option save for like Cassiopeia or Ryze. Not to mention, item 3174 has been reworked into a support item.

Speaking of which, item 1056 had to be nerfed because it has been abused by tanks, despite the fact that it is an item geared towards mages. This item has NEVER been a problem on mages, even during the time where you could stack this. It was the tanks that made it be nerfed. Stacking this was an option on mages that wished to skip or delay item 3165 so that you could purchase an item that would serve you better during the mid game.

item 3157 has had its AP heavily reduced. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but Zhonya was one of the few big AP items. Now we have very few big AP items. Also, this is the only option for APs for an AP + armor item, It has been asked for years to allow us to have another AP + armor item to be an alternative to Zhonyas.

item 3116 had its slow nerfed and its AP reduced. This item is now only really used by champions which absolutely need it, like Brand or Malzahar. It also used to be one of the few viable big AP items. Having its AP reduced is fine to not make it a staple and make it only attractive for AP bruisers. But they could alt least increase the slow a bit.

Speaking of which, there are very few items for AP bruisers. item 3027 item 3151 item 3116 come close, but each has its own problem that make them not as attractive for AP bruisers as they should be. Meanwhile ADs have tons of options for AD bruisers item 3078 item 3071 item 3812 item 3022 item 3748 item 3053 the latter two which also scale with the user's defensive stats. Meanwhile there is nothing like that for AP bruisers, no AP items scale defensively.

item 3136 is an item that has the potential to be really good for many champions, namely AP assassins and burst mages. Unfortunately, the only thing it builds into is item 3151, which is actually a bad item for AP assassins and burst mages, but good for DPS mages. The only other flat magic penetration option for mages is item 3020, which forces you to take a boot slot that could be used for something like item 3158 item 3111 item 3047. Meanwhile ADs have item 3147 item 3814 item 3142, each of them with a very useful passive (or active) for AD assassins, and do not take up their boot slot.

item 3170 could have the potential to be one of the best AP items, and would be a staple for AP bruisers. But this item doesn't exist in Summoner's Rift.

item 3115 isn't a bad item, but there are almost no auto-attack focused APs. Apart from Azir and Kayle (and sometimes Teemo) this item is rarely purchased. Most mages have nothing on their kits that supports a playstyle focused into auto-attacking. To a lesser extent this also applies to item 3100, which is not bad, but few mages can use it effectively.

item 3146 is being taken by AP assassins because it is one of the very few options they have for an AP item that offers pure offense and helps them do their job. The fact that it is taken despite the fact that it has AD in its build path (a wasted stat for many mages and AP assassins) says all about the state of AP items currently. It is also the closest thing to a viable spellvamp option for APs, but as long as Vladimir or Akali exist, at least with their current kit, it will be hard to introduce a viable spellvamp option for APs in this game.

item 3285 is simply too expensive for what it does. Sure, it is one of the very few big AP items left. But it is just too expensive. And apart from its stats, you don't get a lot, since its passive doesn't deal that much damage. For that amount of gold, you could purchase a item 3146 instead, which would better help you with bursting down a target if you are playing an AP assassin or burst mage. This item's problem could easily be solved by just decreasing its cost.

And finally, there is item 3089. The item that is supposed to be THE core item for mages. But, it is incredibly expensive. There are games where you don't even have the opportunity to build this because this item is just so damn expensive, and all that it offers is a lot of AP (other items offer more than just tons of AP). Its build path and combine cost are also atrocious, further discouraging mages from purchasing this. I get that it is supposed to be a late game item, but at the moment this item is too late game focused for an item that is supposed to be the mage staple. I mean, ADCs have item 3031 and this item, while expensive, it is not as much compared to Rabadon. It also has a better build path and ADs don't need to wait until super late game to be able to build this. There is a reason why item 3135 is almost always purchased instead; it offers you similar amounts of damage, is cheaper, and even allows you to deal with the multiple ADs and tanks that stack magic resistance. This item should either have a better build path, have its cost reduced, or be removed. The latter solution would require an overhaul of champion's AP ratios, which have been balanced with Rabadon's Deathcap in mind. In the long run, however, it could potentially be a healthier solution.


Overall, mages are fine. They are not problematic, and there are actually some mages like Orianna which have proven to be too strong. The problem lies in the AP itemization, and that's why I think people constantly complain about mages being "unviable" - which is not true, but doesn't mean that AP itemization is good.

138 Comments

WoonStruck31 votes

Nice thread, but you forgot to mention how massively item 3155 changes AD vs AP laning dynamics, while APs have no effective way to outplay, mitigate, or match the purchase.

That's a large part of why APs end up feeling weak. FFS, Kennen goes mid more than top now because of it.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Except all ADs Ap champions lane against get outscaled by the AP.

GGLineaR5 votes

Ehh, not always. AP items are getting nerfed so often it feels like every other patch, unless you're talking someone like Vladimir Veigar or Ryze Ryze ap scaling is almost entirely dependant on how hard you shit on the enemy laner, rather than items. (and even then, Veigar is still like that)

AP items just lack the numbers nowadays to do the scaling game. Especially given how many defensive options ad champs have against ap, while STILL being able to do damage.

Yrzen15 votes

Everything you outlined perfectly sums up the state of AP items.

Why on Earth is the only non-boot item with flat magic penetration an AP Bruiser item? Not to mention one that, if your champion lacks innate synergy with it, one you'd want to buy alongside another AP Bruiser/Utility item item 3116.

Why, oh god why, does Teemo, an auto-attack focused "Mage", build Gunblade for burst damage/assassinations, instead of Luden's or Lichbane? Fizz? Katarina? Ahri? Gunblade, the only equivalent to AP lifesteal in the entire game. Gunblade, a hybrid damage item, whose attack damage mostly goes to waste on mages. Gunblade, who apparently fills Luden's niche better than Luden's by accident? It's honestly sad.

Enraged Piglet4 votes

I think Ludens is more for poking with things like Viktor. It also helps waveclear a bit. Honestly about the only way I can see them giving more ap into items right now is if they added a nerf to the items as well for instance you get less mana regain if you build deathcap but now it gives more ap or negative cdr. Which honestly wouldn't be bad because a lot of build give to much cdr. So you could sacrafice some early and make it back later for stronger late game scaling while having better early game while just having your abilities down more or having less mana.

Wimbledofy3 votes

{quoted}

Why, oh god why, does Teemo, an auto-attack focused "Mage", build Gunblade for burst damage/assassinations, instead of Luden's or Lichbane? Fizz? Katarina? Ahri? Gunblade, the only equivalent to AP lifesteal in the entire game. Gunblade, a hybrid damage item, whose attack damage mostly goes to waste on mages. Gunblade, who apparently fills Luden's niche better than Luden's by accident? It's honestly sad.

This doesn't make sense, why wouldn't teemo build gunblade? He should be one of the few ap champs it would make sense to build it on since he auto attacks and would give him consistent dps, and why would/should Ludens make more sense than that? Also teemo doesn't have any auto resets and only his q/w can activate lich bane so that's why he would take gunblade, since it offers more consistent dps.

Professor Ward2 votes

{quoted}

Everything you outlined perfectly sums up the state of AP items.

Why on Earth is the only non-boot item with flat magic penetration an AP Bruiser item? Not to mention one that, if your champion lacks innate synergy with it, one you'd want to buy alongside another AP Bruiser/Utility item item 3116.

Why, oh god why, does Teemo, an auto-attack focused "Mage", build Gunblade for burst damage/assassinations, instead of Luden's or Lichbane? Fizz? Katarina? Ahri? Gunblade, the only equivalent to AP lifesteal in the entire game. Gunblade, a hybrid damage item, whose attack damage mostly goes to waste on mages. Gunblade, who apparently fills Luden's niche better than Luden's by accident? It's honestly sad.

Because mages dont actually want full damage, they want utility?>?>

This thread is complaining about not enough damage, then saying its because utility is op? This thread is literally a circle fallacy

I havent seen a rabadons built in 1000 games, damage sucks, utility is king in this meta.

Yrzen1 votes

AP Supports want utility. Battle Mages (as Riot has called them) frequently make use of utility as part of doing their job. (Such as Vladimir slowing enemies with Rylai's so that he can chase them down, thus increasing his damage with a utility item) Siege Mages and Burst Mages can make use of these items, but they would usually rather build something else. The problem is that several of them have little options for doing so, (item 3135item 3285item 3089?) and thus have to build in a roundabout manner (item 3146item 3151item 3030?) to prevent wasted gold. This feels unsatisfying for them, because they don't benefit as directly from these items, nor do these items as directly help their playstyle. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't see what's circular about this.

Professor Ward1 votes

{quoted}

AP Supports want utility. Battle Mages (as Riot has called them) frequently make use of utility as part of doing their job. (Such as Vladimir slowing enemies with Rylai's so that he can chase them down, thus increasing his damage with a utility item) Siege Mages and Burst Mages can make use of these items, but they would usually rather build something else. The problem is that several of them have little options for doing so, (item 3135item 3285item 3089?) and thus have to build in a roundabout manner (item 3146item 3151item 3030?) to prevent wasted gold. This feels unsatisfying for them, because they don't benefit as directly from these items, nor do these items as directly help their playstyle. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't see what's circular about this.

Im not getting how Rabadons Ludens And Void are "little options"

you can only build 5 items and boots bubba, You want more than 3 items for max damage builds? Never gonna happen, rabadons is at 161 ap at first buy(with extra for any purchase of ap before or after), ludens is hitting an average of 120 at first buy(with the highest % movespeed buff in the game) And void makes building tank worthless?

There is every option to build 1k ap if you want every game.

And theyre never gonna put 20% cdr on rabadons so you can have your damage and utility too. im sorry.

Yrzen1 votes

It's little options because Luden's is 80% gold efficient with a generally worse passive than more efficient items, Void Staff is inefficient unless the opponent has magic resist items (Merc treads is insufficient) and Rabadon's is simultaneously the most expensive item and has the worst build path out of any item in the game.

If you're going to misrepresent my arguments by saying I want utility on Rabadon's or pull bullshit like "Any mage can build 1k AP every game and not gimp themselves" then I see you're not willing to have an actual discussion on the topic.

fuffychan11 votes

Riot is so biased towards AD they dont even try to hide it.

Weasel Kensei9 votes

Iv been playing since late season 4, about 1 month before preseason 5 give or take.

In my time AP has been reduced, then reduced again, and reduced some more.

item 3025 had AP removed Will of the Ancients deleted Deathfire Grasp deleted item 3157 AP reduced item 3027 AP reduced item 3116 AP reduced item 3174 Reworked to a support item and AP reduced, then reworked again with mana regen AP and still no one builds it

We used to have three 120 AP items, and you could build item 3040 on top of those.

Granted weve had some AP items added.

item 3102 Making it crap for the tanky champs that liked it, and still kinda on the low side (though its a hybrid offense defense item AP assassins like it) item 3030 item 3152 Then there is these abortions that I only see like Vlad and Ekko building the Proto Belt (and sometimes Annie), and these are also lower AP offerings, I hate these things

item 3165 Then there is this thing which I would like to say there is an alternative to... but there isnt. Now just about every class has that item thats core, that is a strong rush option. This is the AP champ (that uses mana) core item. It has decent amounts of everything they need, and the build path provides strong mana sustain and some CDR, as well as some AP.

Like most problems, the AP champs issues stem in some part from Riots attempts to shorten matches. Snowballing is harder for a class that relies on a resource they cant fight without, and have few ways to replenish without backing allowing relief from the pressure they have while out on the map (with mana).

Honestly I wouldnt be surprised if another AP item was nerfed soon, probably Moro, just cause.

I agree, AP items are unsatisfying. In part due to the constant reworking, nerfing, and deleting. Hell I used to really enjoy building Zekes Herald, thats gone too. I mean we got a Zekes replacement... oh yeah...

item 3050 AP removed

Just... HAHAhahahaa.... Sad. AP itemization is so funny. Items being deleted, the AP stat is just disappearing from the game slowly.

EkyonKun8 votes

Honestly I wouldnt be surprised if another AP item was nerfed soon, probably Moro, just cause.

I can see it now. Patch 7.19.

"Morellonomicon has been utilized by burst mages sustain mages control mages all mages for its damage, cooldown reduction, mana, mana restoration, and grievous wounds passive. We felt this was a bit overboard, so we're stepping back a bit on its power budget."

item 3165 Cost reduced to 2300 gold from 2900 gold. Ability Power reduced to 75 from 100. Mana reduced to 250 from 400. Cooldown Reduction reduced to 10% from 20%. No longer applies grievous wounds on targets below 35% health. Mana restore on kills and assists reduced to 10% from 20%.

"Lost Chapter has shared many of the same problems as Morellonomicon in that "Every mage needs one" so we're toning that necessity down as well."

item 3802

Ability Power reduced to 20 from 25 Mana reduced to 250 from 300. Mana restore on level up reduced to 10% from 20%.

korg0234 votes

Its sad how this is actually what is going to happen not even a joke.

EkyonKun4 votes

But hey, it costs 600 less gold now. C: all good amirite. .

.

. item 3116 RIP

Weasel Kensei3 votes

I like how you perfectly captured the "formulaic tone" of their "why were nerfing this" reasons. I mean they may aswell copy paste that if they do nerf it.

EkyonKun2 votes

If they do end of nerfing it in this specific way, I shall give my sincerest apologies across all the boards to every single mage main (including myself)

RainXBlade1 votes

As much as how funny this comment is in a meme-kind of sense, I hope this isn't gonna push through. AP itemization has been underwhelming for a long time. Hell, I've been building this trinity of items for Malz and Swain (item 3151 item 3027 item 3116) in almost all of my games that it's getting a bit boring.

I miss the times when I could get my AP past 500 by fitting in Rabadon's, but the item's too build inefficient in the meta we are in right now.

EkyonKun2 votes

I typically get Deathcap as a fourth item. I get item 3003, item 3020 , item 3151 then item 3089 . I do this so I can get around the glaring fact that Deathcap requires 3 basic items, and I don't feel like having to sit on thousands of gold waiting for a power-spike. I WOULD like to get item 3135 first, but then I'm sitting on an extra 435 gold due to item 1052 being in the way. With void staff as a fifth item, instead, I just build item 1026 +item 1052 into item 3135 since void staff only requires two item slots to work with. Is it great? Not really. Does it work? About as well as any other AP build I can think of. Also if you're wondering why no item 3165, I play a lot of Annie so I basically just want a ton of AP and Mpen. If I ever do get Morellos, it's as a 6th item unless we NEED it sooner for the grievous wounds. But yeah I completely understand you. Unless you're specifically itemizing for it, there's no way to get good AP anymore. And even if you do, it's still sub-par. Too many AP nerfs, and the only AP item buff in the past year was, of course, item 3165 during the MYMU.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

For Malzahar, you want to build Morellonomicon instead of Rod of Ages. He really needs the CDR from Morello due to lots of reasons. And he doesn't really need the durability from RoA, especially with his passive. Swain can get away with building RoA because he doesn't really need CDR and he needs the durability.

RainXBlade1 votes

I'm often reckless as Malz so I can often skip out my Morello for extra durability. Although when I'm ahead, I usually get my Morello early.

FatedSaviour6 votes

. By purchasing item 3070 you also kill your early game potential.

ummm, 'scuse me Anivia Ryze Karthus

YumaS2Astral39 votes

Ryze is the exception because he scales with mana.

However, Karthus and Anivia are no exception. There is a reason why it is common for them to skip Tear and go directly for RoA.

Handin Out Naps6 votes

Anivia still kills people with just mana items lol.

It Hertz When IP3 votes

Only if they stay in her ult.

Votable Jester2 votes

Her base damage is pretty insane...

korg0236 votes

That moment when i have 3 fully built ap items and just 189 ap ... feels ap man... The utility those items give are not near enough compensate for such huge loss in AP stat. Especially compared to AD items.

Squidward Dab3 votes

I really hate the fact that almost everything now has CDR as a lame compensation for losing out on more AP. Some of u honestly think mages would rather have 10% cdr over more Ap on zhonyas but imo I would much rather have 30-50 more Ap than 10% cdr

Poske2 votes

Judging by my last 100 games

I wouldnt reccomend nashor tooth on azir ever since berserkers got buff

You want to take full attacskpeed marks + quints

You want to max W

and you want to build berserkers

Soldiers do not apply on hit effects So the Nashors passive is quite gold innificient compared to something simple as berserkers and Quints (Attackspeed quints are known for theirs power)

Nomicon > berserkers > ludens > voidstaff > rylai

Thats what I would suggest

Ludens can be skipped if behind

Nashor Tooth is in horrible state aside of Kayle... its a really bad item Maybe One day they ll update first 3 teemos abilities and make it good on him yet again

DuskDaUmbreon5 votes

Nashor's Tooth is built on Azir for the turret taking potential, CDR, AP, and AS.

It's a required item on Teemo and Diana, in addition to Kayle. As well as any other AP-heavy auto attacker.

Poske1 votes

I dont need explanations really. I am just saying that the best azir build doesnt include nashoors

Its a combination between nomicon as runes and berserkers way better

Also diana and teemo are joke in my elo

Teemo works with the wierdest builds (idk why) rather then ap and diana is retarded version of fizz/akali etc

Divewing2 votes

There is a single Azir build that doesn't build Nashors, and that doesn't build Zerkers either, because it's built around Q poke w/Luden's.

If you are going for the Late-game-carry (ie, standard) Azir build. You build freaking Nashors.

But by all means, argue against myself (Azir main since release) and other Azir mains (some of which have far more mastery points than I do).

Funny thing is none of our builds include Morello, there's no room for it

Poske1 votes

After bunch of testing

The only viable build is nomicon berserkers

My azir winrate suffered alot because of those trash nashor / poke builds

Divewing1 votes

"Bunch of testing"?

You haven't played Azir in ranked for 5 days

Poske1 votes

I have been testing those trash builds for a year now not after your comment

Divewing1 votes

Not that your build seems to be giving you much success...

Poske1 votes

Played roughly 4 games with new build so cant really impact a winrate

Enough to assess it is stronger. The strongest build so far with the soonest spike

**I am confident enough to pick azir for turneys with that build however if azir seems as a fit pick **

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENKhOstU,comment-id=000800000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-21T10:09:11.918+0000)

Played roughly 4 games with new build so cant really impact a winrate

Enough to assess it is stronger. The strongest build so far with the soonest spike

**I am confident enough to pick azir for turneys with that build however if azir seems as a fit pick **

azir needs nerfing .-. maybe the soldiers should get a health bar.... he pokes way too much way too hard :/

Poske1 votes

Statisticly he is like weakest midlaner.

Divewing1 votes

If you are seriously gonna sit there and say Azir doesn't need changes you shouldn't be picking him

Also: "4 games is not enough to prove your point, but it is enough to prove mine" ok....?

Poske1 votes

I also have 400 games of testing builds on azir XD

so yeah the best build so far

Nashor tooth is waste of gold compared to boots

Does Azir directly need changes? I would have to see what Riot has in plan maybe I wouldnt mind new changes

But imo they should fix AP itemization first because it is a fking joke. Azir is hindered by bad itemization - there are no godamn item spikes for him

Ztoka1 votes

Why play a mage when you can poke just as well or better as an adc while self healing for a ton? Mages need more ability to self heal so they have a bit of a chance to survive in lane AND team fights. I get they aren't supposed to face tank stuff but neither is the adc. Yet adc's get a ridiculous amount of life steal. Get them down to 1/2 of their health, a couple autos heals them right back. No wonder adc's are played so often.

YumaS2Astral5 votes

I think it is because mages not only often do AoE damage, but they also have higher range, crowd control, and burst damage. Having sustain on top of that would be ridiculous. Remember that lifesteal is currently one of the reasons why it is difficult for assassins to burst down ADCs.

On my opinion, it's the ADCs that should have their sustain toned down (or removed). Not the mages which need to have sustain.

Frightning1 votes

Mages need a real class overhaul, have for as long as the game has existed. As an archetype, mages tend to be ranged, have high burst, AoE, and CC. That's a really busted combination of strengths to have on one champion. It's why AP itemization has had to be nerfed so much (look at deathcap's changelog to see what I mean). If the archetype is fixed, then they start buffing AP itemization back up to being satisfying without it straight up busting the game (I've been playing long enough to still remember when deathcap was 155 AP for 3300g; back in those days, mages could 1-combo a tightly grouped team, and delete all squishies+leave tanks at less than half, it was disgusting).

Theorchero4 votes

{quoted}

Mages need a real class overhaul, have for as long as the game has existed. As an archetype, mages tend to be ranged, have high burst, AoE, and CC. That's a really busted combination of strengths to have on one champion. It's why AP itemization has had to be nerfed so much (look at deathcap's changelog to see what I mean). If the archetype is fixed, then they start buffing AP itemization back up to being satisfying without it straight up busting the game (I've been playing long enough to still remember when deathcap was 155 AP for 3300g; back in those days, mages could 1-combo a tightly grouped team, and delete all squishies+leave tanks at less than half, it was disgusting).

And I've been playing since season 1, where there has never, in the history of league, where an ADC has not been meta. It deletes entire teams when ahead, secures objectives and pressures towers more effectively and safely than any other class. They also tend to have more burst than modern mages.

Aoe burst mages had counterplay. Magic resist existed and mages had long cooldowns unless they specced into cdr, which would ultimately reduce their damage, and you could also not run in a tight circle and then complain when you get shit on by an aoe burst mage.

gamer time1 votes

It deletes entire teams when ahead, secures objectives and pressures towers more effectively and safely than any other class. They also tend to have more burst than modern mages.

you don't remember the "adc in 201X LUL" era we had a while ago? Sure they were strong when ahead but very weak compared to every other class. ADCs were so (relatively) useless that ziggs at one point became one of the stronger picks.

Theorchero3 votes

[{quoted}](name=let me get uhhh,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENKhOstU,comment-id=001500000000,timestamp=2017-08-19T11:25:45.635+0000)

you don't remember the "adc in 201X LUL" era we had a while ago? Sure they were strong when ahead but very weak compared to every other class. ADCs were so (relatively) useless that ziggs at one point became one of the stronger picks.

Oh please, no they were not.

ADCs were still pretty much MANDATORY and have been for pretty much ALL of league's existence, only certain ADCs ever fall out of favor due to meta, but because there's a huge host of ADCs with diverse kits, the role never loses its real power.

SteelMankind1 votes

All 3 of the Hextech items are pretty good, Haunting Guise is like old brutalizer, Morellos and Void Staff are amazing items, and lastly mages can easily itemize penetration on their boots. AD assassins would KILL for lethality boots.

Zhonyas, Rabadons, and Ludens are the feelsbadman AP items that draw the ire of the boards towards AP itemization in general. That, and Duskblade being a REALLY strong AD item that only Gunblade users can match as a first item powerspike.

The problem with Zhonyas, Rabadons, and Ludens is that their stats and actives/passives are great in any game, so if the numbers are good enough (build path in Rabs case), they crowd out other item choices.

As it stands, diversity in mage builds is pretty good. You have the bread and butter Morellos rush, you have the snowballing D.Ring+Seal into Haunting Guise+Sorcs or Gunblade, and you have the scaling Tear/RoA champs. After that, some champs get items their kit synergizes well with, like GLP/Protobelt/Lichbane/Rylais. Rabadons is a nice item after the mana/cdr item, champ-specific item, and Void Staff have been completed, but keep in mind that this may have to be delayed further for a Zhonyas or a Banshees.

Meanwhile, AD champs may have more options on paper, but rarely deviate from their champ's 5 item build aside from whether or not to get Hexdrinker, LW timing (if at all) and their boots choice.

I like mage itemization now, though I do wish Ludens was a bit better. Ofc I miss the 800+ AP with a full build, but I understand that losing the capability was the price for getting Hextech items and Dark Seal, which are more interesting from a decision-making perspective.

Jorencice5 votes

The loss of damage is simply to much. Your vastly over estimating the hextech items.

I used to be able to hit 1200+ AP on karthus. Now even max glass cannon I'm lucky to hit 800.

Thats a MAJOR loss to both the dps AND burst of AP champions which is not made up for by any of the hextech items.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

I wondered something the other day (please downvote me into infinity for this,it's just a theory) . One of the most common arguments when playing against mages is that they just spam their ability and that their resource management is ˝easy˝ , the CDR overload on their items and the lack of AP. So,what would happen(in theory) if gave Mana regen/Mana to mage items instead of CDR? If more items had something to help them manage their resource mages would have a bigger choice of 1. items. Now they mostly buy item 3802 ,but if we gave more items mana or mana regen (in different quantities ofc) ,they could get AP+ something,but also a little mana to help them out. It doesn't need to be a big amount of mana,but just enough to feel likes it does something.

Could spreading the resource management across their whole build fix something? Like instead of buying item 3165 and losing on some others stats ,make more choices with small amount of Mana. Myb making Zhonya's ring build out item 3802 and item 3191 ? Sam active,but different stats provided ? One of the concerns is that if mages were to have more AR items is that they could stack them and be more tankier than intended. By making different variations of the same effect with different stats would be a great way to give mages more build options without worrying for them to stack AR or something else.

More from Gameplay

More by YumaS2Astral