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An addiction to failure.

Lost R··5 votes·792 views

This is the only logical explanation I can come up with to explain the wave of ultra-defeatism that's sweeping the community right now. People don't want to win; they want to lose.

And yes, I'm going to get the flood of people who think I'm talking about lost causes, like 40/0. Shut the bloody hell up, I'm not. I'm talking about games where the scores and objectives are tied, or where YOUR team is in the lead and someone gets it into their head that the game is unwinnable. My two most recent games are examples of this. We're leading 43/26 and we have two turrets and dragons over the enemy. Someone tries to start a surrender vote and declares the game unwinnable. My most recent game had the scores and objectives basically tied, and we were able to get a 21-minute baron. Then half the team declares the game unwinnable, COMPLETELY squanders the 3-minutes baron buff (I'm busy solo-pushing the top turret... AS A MAGE), and Pantheon sits in the fountain basically crying for the latter half of the game about how "useless" everyone is except him, even though we're all outperforming him throughout most of the game.

Enough of this. Either play the game or don't. I know it might be excruciatingly painful to actually... you know, put in some effort, but this fad of defeatism needs to go bye-bye. PERMANENTLY. Riot hasn't ruined this game, YOU have. You refuse to play the game, learn how to deal with the threats before you, and ruin the experience for the rest of us who actually do, yet you don't have the common decency to just sit at a blank monitor to bitch and moan about it. You have to come into the game and ruin it. You have to bring the negativity to us so we become as pitiful and depressed as you.

By the way, that is a reportable offense, at least in my eyes. A persistent negative attitude is not allowed, and if you keep it up, you'll have to go sit in the timeout corner. Now get out of here!

22 Comments

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Lost R2 votes

People drown themselves too much in numbers and statistics, identifying themselves more with elo and mmr rather than what they can do in game, identifying who might and will become a problem as the game goes on, thinking about how to adapt to developing situations and what openings in the enemy's defenses to exploit and spotting where your own fall short. That's one of the major banes of the game right now. It has become too meta. People are too obsessed with win rates and bans and professional level plays. They let the reaction and statistics of the community at large dictate who or what they play over their own judgement.

I played jungle Nautilus back in Season Four, before the Quill Coat, back when tank junglers SUCKED, and you could get autoreported for even thinking about it, and I got GOOD with him. Lately I've been playing support Vel'Koz; how many Vel'Kozes do you see running around? I'm getting good with him, poking for days on end and providing artillery fire for my team.

Some months back I was top lane Darius against Vladmir. I was told that he counters Darius, but I played smart. I stacked up on magic resist, the Maw of Malmortius and Scimitar, struck hard and fast when I could and I kicked his ass so hard he nearly rage quit. None of this is based on statistics or meta analysis. These are all decisions made in the moment, simply by understanding what form Vlad's damage comes in, and what I can build to prevent it.

I don't care what the community or what statistics or numbers show; I care about what I can do as the character. I don't care how low the pick rate is for Lulu; I will still beat you like a rented mule with her if you play stupid around me. While I enjoy seeing Tristana in the spotlight in the professional games, that's not going to affect my decisions in my games.

By the way, you completely missed my original point. Even with a MASSIVE lead, my team squandered their advantages and declared the game unwinnable, even as I attempt to rally them, even as I push a lane solo as a MAGE, even as we have Baron at 21 minutes. No one did anything with it, and I watched as our massive lead disintegrated and we were slowly pushed back to our fountain as the team basically gave up. This is not the first time it's happened, nor the second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth time. Even with a huge early lead, people give up, declare the game impossible to win, even as we have the enemy against the ropes, we're double the kills over them and half of their turrets are demolished. I once saw my team squander a baron buff AND five dragons AND two inhibitors down. Nah, that game was impossible to win, too, even with all those advantages.

That's the kind of addiction to failure I'm talking about.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Lost R1 votes

You have more or less confirmed my point about obsessing over numbers. You want to know how many games of ranked I've played this season? If you don't count the preliminaries, less than 10. I don't play ranked. People are titanic assholes in ranked, and the incorrigible assholes that ruin games in normal and hide behind the aegis that it's just normals will not suddenly become patron saints of civility in ranked. You ban the wrong champion, an ally gives first blood, the support doesn't buy a sightstone soon enough, doesn't ward enough, the enemy gets the first dragon, destroys a turret, the enemy goes on a killing spree, the laners need help, and that list continues for several thousand feet, people will fly off the handle SOONER than they do in normals. I've had such nasty experiences in the preliminaries alone (which amazingly didn't put me in bronze 5 after losing 8 of the 10 games because of said assholes) that I elected to just stop playing ranked all together.

On top of that, you've completely missed my original point that it doesn't matter how far you are ahead. People want to surrender to bitch about how impossible and imbalanced the game is, no matter how much of an advantage they have, no matter if all the odds are stacked in their favor. The enemy team can be played by five hat racks and they'd still complain that they're too hard. They are addicted to their own defeatism. It has become synonymous with their very essence of existence.

I've seen a game of four AD melee assassins completely refuse to push the lanes even as the enemy team is aced and there's no lane that needs defense. They all immediately run into the jungle and start basic attacking the camps (sometimes as a group!) and complain that nobody is doing anything. I've been pushing lanes as the support and mages AND made more progress in one game in that fashion than most of those players will ever achieve in an entire season. God help the enemy if I am playing a champion that actually has attack damage.

People have given up at the five and ten minute marks, LONG before there is ever a serious dichotomy in scores, and LONG before a surrender vote can be cast, and all because of extraordinarily stupid reasons. People want to obsess over their elos, mmrs and other arbitrary stats; you say it's important, but keep in mind that most of the player base is fucking DUMB. These are the same people whose mindsets haven't changed since Season three, who think the support items are worthless, that if the support doesn't have a sightstone, they aren't warding at all, even if they are, even if they're overcapped on wards and is in fact the_ only_ one warding, who refuse to build anything that isn't straight damage, who will refuse to upgrade their trinkets, prioritize kills over objectives, refuse to even LOOK at the status of a lane until they have Sated Devourer, will command everyone to build Thornmail even when the enemy team is composed almost entirely of magic damage, and generally believe commanding "group" or "ward" makes them more tactically proficient than Sun Tzu. These people are also obsessing over stats and numbers and are the main meat of people who are, thinking that they understand the meaning behind them. They understand them in the same way as if you are taught that 2+2=4, but are NOT taught how to count. All they know is the answer, but not the process that leads to the answer, and it's not even the full answer.

I could talk about this all day (and I've made countless threads on it), and my point will continue to fly so high over your head that it leaves orbit and disappears into empty space while you're still fumbling around in the shadows.

LadyRenly1 votes

People like you ruin the game. If the game is lost, just ff and move on. But if the game isn't "unwinnable", then why the hell would you stop? If you can't take the time to complete the match, then don't play. I play to win, and it irritates me beyond measure when people give up because they didn't have the game won at 20 minutes. It's as if if a win isn't spoonfed to them, you just throw your arms in the air and give up without an effort?

In that case you deserve to be low ELO. Too many people quit too early because they didn't win in a stylist and flawless way. I'm not going to play a game that gives me a brain aneurysm because I would like to move on too, but if there is any win condition for us, you owe it to yourself and your teammates to take one for the team, suck it up and keep playing. Your time isn't any more precious than anyone elses

Archon X1 votes

They need to have surrender votes be unanimous.

Lost R1 votes

I prefer it being an overwhelming majority than be unanimous. You'll always get the one guy who is trolling and stalling the game to waste everyone's time. I tend to stand my ground because people surrender too early or too quickly at opposition... as if you didn't already understand that from my original post.

TheSeltzerBaron3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiZ5bXbP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-16T00:30:57.889+0000)

They need to have surrender votes be unanimous.

You may as well not even have them, then. There is no middle ground in this game for the casual player or the player who isn't very good. You have the elite class that plays hardcore and then you have people like me who aren't very good. The balance of champs is severely broken and matchmaking unbalances things even more. When you lose a turret in ARAM at ~3 minutes into the game with full player participation, it's broken.

It's not defeatism, it's wanting to not be stuck in a loop of stupidity when you can't play your champ, the other team has much better comp AND much better players. I, for one, think it's better to surrender and move on to the next match than sit there and figuratively bang your head against the wall over and over wasting time and making yourself even more frustrated. I don't play rift much (and I don't play ranked at all) because it's too rife with rage and people who can't chill the fuck out when you screw up.

In the majority of these matches I experience there is no attempt to change tactics and the people who criticize me for giving up are flinging themselves at the other team mindlessly, accomplishing nothing except feeding them further. They say "come on, we can still win" There's a name for that kind of mindset, it's called delusional.

I have to ask a question. Is it satisfying for you (in general) to get your ass hammered all game and be defeated in everything you try to do no matter how hard you try? I don't think it is. I love back and forth games where you have good teamfights, good exchanges and it ends up being really close but that accounts for an extreme minority of games I play. Most, MOST of the games are horribly one-sided and one team gets handed an asswhooping. I have a hard time being part of a WINNING team when the situation is like that because I'm so often on the bad side of it myself.

I don't understand the stigma behind surrendering. If anything, surrendering willingly, to me, is a way of denying the other team victory by not allowing them to forcibly defeat you. Not to mention, in getting back to my major point, it allows you to move on instead of wasting time. If Riot could get better player and champ balance so that there are fewer instances of one-sided whole-match-long clobberings and more back and forth games the surrender option wouldn't be a problem.

I don't mind if someone calls surrender as a joke or even if we're currently losing because it rarely gets agreed upon. When we're being trampled by ranked players in ARAM with lopsided team comp the smart thing to do is let it end as fast as possible and move on.

Einstein himself said, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Archon X1 votes

your mastery score is 6, play more before you call yourself qualified to say the balance of champs is broken.

TheSeltzerBaron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiZ5bXbP,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-09-16T01:12:31.884+0000)

your mastery score is 6, play more before you call yourself qualified to say the balance of champs is broken.

ARAM doesn't contribute to mastery score yet I see all kinds of stupid imbalance like Heimer, Varus, Lux, Jinx and Teemo as the most egregious offenders. More often than not I can tell from the start what the end will be when I see one of those champs in the game. I've experienced plenty of Riot's idea of balance.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

They're are certain champions that just by nature of ARAM games are more powerful then they would be in a normal 5v5

Archon X1 votes

There are no invincible ARAM champs. If you're a defeatist then sucks to be your teammate lol.

TheSeltzerBaron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiZ5bXbP,comment-id=00000001000000000001,timestamp=2015-09-16T01:33:50.568+0000)

There are no invincible ARAM champs. If you're a defeatist then sucks to be your teammate lol.

Put a little effort into your responses instead of "...sucks to be your teammate lol." Try refuting some of the things I said instead of resorting to name-calling and character assassination.

Archon X1 votes

What you said was asinine and there's really no way to formulate a response that you would be able to comprehend. I have well over 700 ARAM wins and there is NO champion that guarantees a win or loss. Udyr, for one, is fucking OP in ARAM except noone knows how to play him there, so trade him to me and our odds improve. You saying you see one of several champs (not even Sona too) and "can tell what the end will be" means that you suck at the game and can't counterbuild/counterplay whatsoever.

TheSeltzerBaron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiZ5bXbP,comment-id=0000000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-16T03:15:57.520+0000)

What you said was asinine and there's really no way to formulate a response that you would be able to comprehend. I have well over 700 ARAM wins and there is NO champion that guarantees a win or loss. Udyr, for one, is fucking OP in ARAM except noone knows how to play him there, so trade him to me and our odds improve. You saying you see one of several champs (not even Sona too) and "can tell what the end will be" means that you suck at the game and can't counterbuild/counterplay whatsoever.

What it means is that you don't have a coherent answer at all or anything to refute what I said which is why you defaulted to typical insults "... means that you suck at the game...". There's a thing called probability and experience factors into that as well as pattern recognition. No, the results don't always turn out the same exactly but after playing with the same mess long enough you start to notice that, given a certain set of champs, a game is more or less likely to end favorable for your team. On ARAM, there are champs like Jinx, Varus, Lux that I see destroying us a VAST majority of the time. Not 100% of the time, I can't slip up and leave that unclear or you'll nitpick about me using absolutes.

More often than not, by looking at the team comp, before our games even start (based on a lot of past experiences) I can accurately predict a win or loss and whether it will be lopsided, as it often is. Nobody is 100% correct and trying to pick apart the validity of what I'm saying because I'm using generalizations is infantile.

Example: I see a the opposing team has Heimer, Jinx, Soraka, Ezreal, Ashe, and any random tanky champ, while we have little or no poke. We will most likely get our asses handed to us (maybe only a 99% chance). I base that on the dozens upon dozens of times in the past where I've encountered similar situations with the same result: a horribly lopsided loss for us. Congratulations to you if you're the one player in the entire pool who can single-handedly turn that into a victory. The other uncounted thousands of us can't do that, but go ahead and try to blame the loss on me alone and how I suck and can't play.

I try to start off games like that well but when my whole team is getting steamrolled, rather than looking at it in terms of champ composition/imbalance you'd most likely say "Well you just suck lol"

Godaren1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spiritus Noctis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiZ5bXbP,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-16T01:17:34.124+0000)

ARAM doesn't contribute to mastery score yet I see all kinds of stupid imbalance like Heimer, Varus, Lux, Jinx and Teemo as the most egregious offenders. More often than not I can tell from the start what the end will be when I see one of those champs in the game. I've experienced plenty of Riot's idea of balance.

varus and teemo are perfectly balanced in fact probably a little weak

Worgenflorgen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spiritus Noctis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiZ5bXbP,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-16T01:17:34.124+0000)

ARAM doesn't contribute to mastery score yet I see all kinds of stupid imbalance like Heimer, Varus,

Stop talking about balance please. This game isn't balanced around the Howling Abyss.

XLC1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiZ5bXbP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-16T00:30:57.889+0000)

They need to have surrender votes be unanimous.

then there would never be surrenders.

Godaren1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiZ5bXbP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-16T00:30:57.889+0000)

They need to have surrender votes be unanimous.

no they don't when someone goes 0-15 and refuses to surrender it is pretty damn frustrating

3TWarrior1 votes

i'm more concerned with the random lag spikes, disconnects and champion favoritism (to throw that in there)

not very fun to play when you can't even connect to the game

I love the game but hate where I live and when where I live is not a factor for my connection suddenly dropping out of the game, same with others

a lot of people on comcast seem to conflict with differing connections but usually, if I ask if anyone is on comcast when there's a lag spike, someone is

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