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Nasus should be a late game champ, and here's one way to do it

Tychusfindlay919··2 votes·979 views

Give his ult a passive along the lines of:

For every 100 stacks, gain 1/1.5/2% base armor, mr, and base AD

The scale would be great since Lord domis grants nothing against this passive and his sheen Qs continually get stronger.

Besides, his base stats kind of suck compared to other juggernauts, so this would be a good way to reinforce the idea of him being that late game hyperscale juggernaut. His tank stats are mediocre and his base AD is an absolute joke. Something like this would truly fit into nasus becoming that imposing juggernaut that you have to stop before he scales into oblivion.

Nasus should feel like the ticking time bomb that you have to defuse, not the mid game potential-horror and late game laughing stock.

EDIT

the % scaling is ONLY OFF BASE STATS. It's not going to be massively oppressive people, its just something to really reward nasus for getting to that point of stacking. There is a reason champions are given infinite scaling, and its not for them to be useful early or mid game...

29 Comments

Eevee In A Jar2 votes

No TY. When Nasus reaches late game, sure he falls off a bit but he's still not WEAK. He's a fucking juggernaut; the only problem is he gets kited easily late game. YOu make Nasus' armor and MR and base AD to start scaling based on stacks, that's going to break Nasus to a point where if you aren't banning Nasus, your jungler will camp and get Nasus fed and that's all you'll see literally. And once Nasus snowballs, it'll be impossible to shut him down.

Nasus is pretty good where he is right now. Good Nasus players will split push or know when to just disengage rather than blindly chase and get kited and killed.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee In A Jar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xfO2UpO9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-24T16:16:31.415+0000)

No TY. When Nasus reaches late game, sure he falls off a bit but he's still not WEAK. He's a fucking juggernaut; the only problem is he gets kited easily late game. YOu make Nasus' armor and MR and base AD to start scaling based on stacks, that's going to break Nasus to a point where if you aren't banning Nasus, your jungler will camp and get Nasus fed and that's all you'll see literally. And once Nasus snowballs, it'll be impossible to shut him down.

Nasus is pretty good where he is right now. Good Nasus players will split push or know when to just disengage rather than blindly chase and get kited and killed.

2% isn't particularly that oppressive. Check out his base stats some time.

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

Oh 2% armor and MR off his base stat, not total? I must have misread that. But still a snowballing Nasus is already a juggernaut that builds full tank and does a million damage. Of course you can say "just deny farm" but that's always simpler said than done. If Riot can implement the right scaling %, I wouldn't be that against it.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee In A Jar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xfO2UpO9,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-10-24T16:34:43.137+0000)

Oh 2% armor and MR off his base stat, not total? I must have misread that. But still a snowballing Nasus is already a juggernaut that builds full tank and does a million damage. Of course you can say "just deny farm" but that's always simpler said than done. If Riot can implement the right scaling %, I wouldn't be that against it.

Nasus doesnt usually snowball... If he does, whoever he went against fucked up hard.

In any case, believe me you that the idea proposed in the OP certainly gives him an edge after a certain stack point, but it's not some excessive god mode nasus.

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

Nasus snowballs quite often when I was in plat games usually and that's thanks to the jungler. no one loses lane to nasus. There's always a reason why Nasus ends up fed. It's either a mistake or a jungler intereference.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee In A Jar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xfO2UpO9,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-24T16:49:42.415+0000)

Nasus snowballs quite often when I was in plat games usually and that's thanks to the jungler. no one loses lane to nasus. There's always a reason why Nasus ends up fed. It's either a mistake or a jungler intereference.

But none of that is nasus himself, that's all outside interference.

Ceteris paribus my friend.

ZenithEevee2 votes

ah, yes, because you know, Its not like getting Infinityx3 damage on a low cooldown spell isnt totally already late-game scaling.

Big Lincoln2 votes

an yes because having millions of damage on spell you'll never get in range to hit with is a strong late game

ZenithEevee2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xfO2UpO9,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-10-24T16:26:39.449+0000)

an yes because having millions of damage on spell you'll never get in range to hit with is a strong late game

...

You know, its not like he has probably one of THE BEST targeted slows..

Not to mention teh fact he's almost complete tank, With an ult that Gasps Gives more tank stats.

Big Lincoln1 votes

you will not get in range to use either on a competent ADC late game

Also that tanks stats are garbage as soon as they finish dominiks

franticFurball1 votes

you will not get in range to use either on a competent ADC late game

I will not get into range of a range 600 point & click ability, on a tanky toplaner, with an ult that makes him, you guessed it, more tanky?

What game are you talking about, because it can't be league.

Ralanr1 votes

If the ability was more reliable he would be nerfed.

He's tanky as heck when fully built. If he had an easy time hitting you with his late game Q then he'd be beyond broken.

franticFurball1 votes

you'll never get in range to hit with

You know why that is? I guess not, so let me explain:

Its because 9/10 nasus players

  • are still dumb enough, to play him with deep-Cunning masteries instead of resolve
  • most of them either buy item 3009 or item 3047

Try kiting a Nasus with both Swiftness Mastery + item 3111 who, just as a reminder, has the most powerful single target slow in the game, on an 6.6 second cooldown.

Just to emphasive my point, go here, and scroll down to the masteries. Notice the difference in the most commonly used masteries (cunning) and the highest winrate masteries (resolve).

There are not many champs with a 10% difference in that regard.

Big Lincoln1 votes

because the ADC has QSS and a team and most of the meta ones have self peel

nasus is not a late game champion. when it gets to that point he's better off split pushing unless the enemy somehow has a worse 5v5

franticFurball1 votes

because the ADC has QSS

  • QSS has a 90s cooldown. Wither has 6s.
  • Nasus slow is not the only CC

and a team

So does Nasus. And if I can use a 6s cooldown ability to shut down their ADCs only defense against getting blown up, I am happy.

and most of the meta ones have self peel

And? Nasus has 45% tenacity and 15% slow resist. Please show me an adc that can self-peel against that, while still maintaining damage.

Oh, so you say he doesn't have to? He can just run away? Good. Then its now a 4v5 for them, and I have, purely by my presence, taken away their most important source of damage.

nasus is not a late game champion. when it gets to that point he's better off split pushing unless the enemy somehow has a worse 5v5

Wait, so you are saying Nasus is a good split pusher?

EVERYONE, WE GOT A VERITABLE GENIUS OVER HERE! :D

And do you also know what makes him so good at this? The fact that he is such a strong lategame duelist.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

ah, yes, because you know, Its not like getting Infinityx3 damage on a low cooldown spell isnt totally already late-game scaling.

Except nasus doesnt have the luxury of build armor pen, and like most juggernauts, his interaction is usually with tanks.

Jax Cramer1 votes

Melee champs will always suck lategame. Having to be in melee range to do your dmg puts you at full risk and any coordinated team will take advantage of it. Being able to dish out dmg from the safetey of RANGE is the most valuable thing in this game.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax Cramer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xfO2UpO9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-24T16:11:40.489+0000)

Melee champs will always suck lategame. Having to be in melee range to do your dmg puts you at full risk and any coordinated team will take advantage of it. Being able to dish out dmg from the safetey of RANGE is the most valuable thing in this game.

Not true, many melee champions have great late games or at least have traditionally had great late games

Jax Cramer1 votes

Yes had.

Nasus never was one of them btw. Maybe back in Season 2.

Currently the only melee champs with respectable lategames are Gangplank, Yasuo and Fiora and even those are much harder to pull off than ranged lategame carries.

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

Had is the key word. Take a look at Jax, Sion. Both champs that are melee and both have good engage/gap closers; better than Nasus anyways. Yet both of them still fall off even though both count as strong late game (jax a hyper carry and Sion infinitely scaling). There are a lot of melee champs that were very strong melee but many of them has fallen off. Nasus for example hasn't had that title of being a good melee late game hypercarry for few seasons now.

Just remember like with Nasus and Sion; infinitely scaling does not mean unbeatable late game. In fact, infinitely scaling champs usually fall off late game.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee In A Jar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xfO2UpO9,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-10-24T16:36:47.352+0000)

Had is the key word. Take a look at Jax, Sion. Both champs that are melee and both have good engage/gap closers; better than Nasus anyways. Yet both of them still fall off even though both count as strong late game (jax a hyper carry and Sion infinitely scaling). There are a lot of melee champs that were very strong melee but many of them has fallen off. Nasus for example hasn't had that title of being a good melee late game hypercarry for few seasons now.

Just remember like with Nasus and Sion; infinitely scaling does not mean unbeatable late game. In fact, infinitely scaling champs usually fall off late game.

Infinitely scaling should mean excessively difficult to shut down late game.

Do you not find it ironic that a champion would be given an infinitely scaling mechanic only to be useful any time other than late game?

It's moronic.

The only champion that truly does get excessively difficult to deal with is veigar, because, true to his infinitely scaling mechanic, he gets to the point where he fucking deletes almost anything.

Jax Cramer1 votes

Yes because his infinite scaling dmg is ranged whereas Nasus' is melee. If you made Nasus Q ranged and Veigar's dmg melee, Nasus would be the better lategame champ.

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

Not really. What you're talking about is different from what I'm talking about. infinite scaling doesn't mean they are hyper carries. It just means part of their kit scales infinitely as long as there is provided resources for it. For instance, Nasus can reach 1600 stacks or more if he really wanted to and game lasted that long. But does that make him any more efficient in chasing down a target that's going to kite him? No. Same goes for Sion. He can scale infinitely as long as you stack HP on him. But again he can get kited and his ult easily dodged.

It's one part of their kit that is seemingly extremely powerful but the rest of their kit is lacking. Infinitely scaling should not mean excessively difficult to shut down late game because the process for which it takes to "infinitely scale" is simply just farming up. Same for Vayne; could you imagine if Vayne was an extremely difficult champ to kill rather than the squish ball she is now?

I remember I used to think the same thing> i was debating with this guy from challenger and he said something like "infinite scaling =/= strong late game per-se." Just having late game strength doesn't make the champ into a late game hypercarry. Vayne for instance by all intents and purposes IS a late game hypercarry but add into some late game counters in opposing team and Vayne could be nonexistent or a non-factor even if they have the farm/items/mechanics for it. The best one he said though was if scaling infinitely really was that strong, there'd be plenty of other champions who by default of scaling stats would also become OP as well to a point where literally you need to ban minimum of like 15 champs to not deal with that kind of BS. Hope this made sense as English is my 3rd language so I'm not the best at communicating through English.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee In A Jar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xfO2UpO9,comment-id=00000000000100000001,timestamp=2016-10-24T17:01:11.912+0000)

Not really. What you're talking about is different from what I'm talking about. infinite scaling doesn't mean they are hyper carries. It just means part of their kit scales infinitely as long as there is provided resources for it. For instance, Nasus can reach 1600 stacks or more if he really wanted to and game lasted that long. But does that make him any more efficient in chasing down a target that's going to kite him? No. Same goes for Sion. He can scale infinitely as long as you stack HP on him. But again he can get kited and his ult easily dodged.

It's one part of their kit that is seemingly extremely powerful but the rest of their kit is lacking. Infinitely scaling should not mean excessively difficult to shut down late game because the process for which it takes to "infinitely scale" is simply just farming up. Same for Vayne; could you imagine if Vayne was an extremely difficult champ to kill rather than the squish ball she is now?

I remember I used to think the same thing> i was debating with this guy from challenger and he said something like "infinite scaling =/= strong late game per-se." Just having late game strength doesn't make the champ into a late game hypercarry. Vayne for instance by all intents and purposes IS a late game hypercarry but add into some late game counters in opposing team and Vayne could be nonexistent or a non-factor even if they have the farm/items/mechanics for it. The best one he said though was if scaling infinitely really was that strong, there'd be plenty of other champions who by default of scaling stats would also become OP as well to a point where literally you need to ban minimum of like 15 champs to not deal with that kind of BS. Hope this made sense as English is my 3rd language so I'm not the best at communicating through English.

Wall of text that I wont bother responding in equal length.

To counter said text wall, the scaling is all off of his strengths, which are tank and damage (juggernaut). Yes he can still get kited, and that shouldnt be changed, nor do I want it changed. I just think that his scaling is insufficient in its current state.

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

That's fine bro I don't expect people to reply with an essay like I do. I just bad at English so I have to type alot to make sure people get my point. I am often misunderstood.

Perhaps Riot will look at it pre season.

Big Lincoln1 votes

make his E's shred % based so he can actually fight tanks on it

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xfO2UpO9,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-10-24T16:27:26.462+0000)

make his E's shred % based so he can actually fight tanks on it

That also makes him unnecessarily weaker against squishies, unless you do a GA type of thing where the game checks which value is greater.

Big Lincoln1 votes

he already crushes squishies assuming 500-600 stacks late game

the problem is he tickles front line when any other meta juggernaut would fuck them up

Atreus Jones1 votes

2% for every 100 stacks, a game would have to last long enough for that to really make a difference in the late game, although a good Susan player usually has 200 - 300 before 20 mins. that's 2-3/3-4.5/4-6% at 20 mins, that isn't exactly the biggest increase. And on his base AD, which if you build tank still doesn't increase much.

And only when he ults, they could just increase the ult cooldown. Statistically a buff like this would either benefit Tank or on the opposite side of the spectrum, Full AD, Susan, not both

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