Can Kalista get a rework. (Dead Champions)

HàrrowR··11 votes·9,910 views
https://i.imgur.com/16nLBJp.jpg[/img]

Someone posted this earlier in a thread called "I feel so bad for anyone that doesn't play a popular champion."

I'm just trying to make some waves,i don't think its fair to have so many useless champs laying around like Kalista or Morde,but lets stick to Kalista.

I know many of you hate her now,and the reason she's purposely kept down is because of how problematic her kit can be when she's strong.

I think the biggest problem in reworking her is,ironically,how strong of an identity she has,i mean when you think of kalista you think about her hopping around,you think about her Rend skill and you think about her ultimate that can save her team mate and completely blast you to hell with a Leona coming straight to your face.

But the truth is,even though this all makes her very unique and is at the core of her identity,its just too much. When she's strong she can hop hop hop and kill anyone she wants,when her support is a premade who uses voice chat with her, her R can be a devastating tool,her E can be a pain in the ass to deal with early,yet late game any regular crit ADC will do 2x more damage than you without having that gimmicky stack mechanic,i mean just look at Tristana,she doesn't have to stack anything cause she literally deals more damage with one auto than Kalista would do with auto + rend,and she also gets a cool 110% bonus AS if i remember correctly,plus two point and click damage abilities where one of them is also a peel.

What im trying to say is,Kalista is obviously purposely being kept down,its a game,people at Riot make it how they see fit,if they buffed her E tomorrow and removed that 90% basic aa damage handicap she would be god tier,but they realize her kit is problematic,its toxic,yet they do nothing about it (similar to Yasuo,yet he doesn't get the 44% winrate treatment).

Why the hell does it feel like even Riot has given up on some of these champs,there's so many dead champs laying around in the champion pool. They're there,just nobody or almost nobody plays them anymore,and Riot seemingly doesn't have the time to give them a proper rework like they did for Warwick,to make them into basically new champs that will actually be played,not just fill up space.

32 Comments

saltran6 votes

She needs a Xin Zao esque update.

Until then she will be nerfed to the point she's the worst adc on SoloQ and only KT Rolster plays her sometimes for Pro Play with an ultra agressive team comp.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

It's k, as long as Deft is able to play Kalista riot doesn't care

meanwhile they give works to taliyah galio azir ryze ornn and much more to be less good in pro and better in soloq

saltran1 votes

Is more about team playstyle than Deft skill what causes that KT sometimes play Kalista imo.

And yes, I hope that after Azir-Taliyah-Ryze changes they focus on Kalista.

Khristophoros4 votes

The particular kind of mobility Yasuo and Kalista have is fundamentally toxic. There's no way to balance them in such a way that they're not infuriating to play against.

FurriesAreHot2 votes

She has a long animation and a set distance leap, and needs to be in a close range to pull off her hops.

Khristophoros2 votes

Enemy Kalista can dash off your own allied minions with no cooldown. Your own minions should not be such a powerful resource for an enemy player. It is fundamentally bad design.

saltran1 votes

What makes her op for pro play is the second life to her supp and the rend on Nashor/Drake. And in SoloQ she wasn't even strong when she had 100% pick/ban for pro play.

I don't think that her jumps are the problem.

Khristophoros1 votes

0 cooldown dash is toxic.

TheZacStreetBoys1 votes

People like to play champs with toxic kits, TBH (look at Yasuo and Zoe--not op, but not fun to play against.) If other people found Kalista's kit that toxic and not fun to play against, she'd probably be played more.

Khristophoros1 votes

I understand what you mean, but you have to remember that Kalista was nerfed pretty hard due to being so toxic. If a champion is undertuned enough people stop playing it because while the power fantasy the champ offers is fun, it's basically impossible to achieve it so nobody wants to play them anymore. And that is the goal of undertuning a toxic champ. Get it out of the meta because everyone hates playing against it.

They haven't undertuned Yasuo or Zoe nearly as much because for whatever reason they think those champs are less toxic than Kalista. So those champs still see a lot of play because Riot kept them in a viable state.

MLDzXnRRR3 votes

There are like 10-20 champs in dire need of rework and visual update more than her. She is very strong in e-sports in the right teamcomp. Unlike 50-60 champs that never say any play there.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

There are like 10-20 champs in dire need of rework and visual update more than her. She is very strong in e-sports in the right teamcomp. Unlike 50-60 champs that never say any play there.

Yup

Aatrox Akali DrMundo Kayle Morgana Nunu Nocturne Malphite Pantheon Amumu Annie Skarner etc etc

TheZacStreetBoys1 votes

I'd argue against Annie and Mundo being on this list. 1: Annie has a healthy kit, especially good for new players learning the mage role. Sure, her E doesn't really fit the kit, but she really only needs minor changes IMO. 2: Mundo is, while having a kit that seems bland, both unique and fun. I, along with other Mundo players I'm guessing, enjoy the self-buff playstyle that revolves around becoming an unstoppable behemoth that can carry fights with just autos and Qs. His kit is passed of as generic, but that's what makes it unique. I hope Riot doesn't change a thing--he's the one full tank who doesn't need shitloads of hard CC to be strong.

I do agree on the rest, though.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

Yup

Aatrox Akali DrMundo Kayle Morgana Nunu Nocturne Malphite Pantheon Amumu Annie Skarner etc etc

Aatrox , Akali, and Nunu are literally in operation right now so i am not sure why they are on the list

Every other champion you listed has a higher play rate in soloq than Kalista Every champion you listed has a better functioning kit than Kalista (even the ones getting reworked soon) Annie Kit is perfectly fine and doesn't need a rework(although it was already reworked a couple seasons back) Skarner kit was reworked as well.

As far as the rest goes, yes she needs a rework over those champions, especially since through you own admission with this post, none of those champions are ADCs.

Have you even been playing the game at all or at least been keeping up with it.

Malix Farwin2 votes

{quoted}

There are like 10-20 champs in dire need of rework and visual update more than her. She is very strong in e-sports in the right teamcomp. Unlike 50-60 champs that never say any play there.

The problem is she is only used in Esports, in terms of the actual players she is just not used at all, much less then those 10-30 champs you are thinking about but can't actually list. Heck i seen champs that are getting reworked / right before their rework used more than Kalista.

Mr Mxyzptlk2 votes

List of champions bad in bot lane right now Lucian Kalista

List of champions bad in top lane right now Aatrox Akali Mordekaiser Urgot Teemo Ornn NautilusRumble Poppy Shen Nasus Kennen Chogath

List of champions bad in mid lane right now Azir Ryze Galio Taliyah Syndra Viktor Kassadin Heimerdinger

List of bad junglers right nowNunu Gragas Nidalee Sejuani Olaf Elise

nah but the adcs need attention because there definitely suffering right now.

AetherArising1 votes

{quoted}

List of champions bad in bot lane right now Lucian Kalista

List of champions bad in top lane right now Aatrox Akali Mordekaiser Urgot Teemo Ornn NautilusRumble Poppy Shen Nasus Kennen Chogath

List of champions bad in mid lane right now Azir Ryze Galio Taliyah Syndra Viktor Kassadin Heimerdinger

List of bad junglers right nowNunu Gragas Nidalee Sejuani Olaf Elise

nah but the adcs need attention because there definitely suffering right now.

Cho? bad in top..? Kennan is wayyyy off-meta but i've never seen a kennan top do poorly...

Sej isnt in a bad spot, the meta is just unfavorable due to her poor scuttle contesting ability too.

Häxel1 votes

well there are the adc changes that are probably buffs to lucian and kalista.

Then we have strategies like nunu karthus similar to yi taric. Olaf is a top tier jungle proplay. And seju will get a buff next game.

And than i kinda can't aggree on most of your midlane champions. Talijah got hit now but vik got buffed and the rest is kidna ok. Shown winrate shows not true strenght on high mechanical or high utility champions as you see msot of them regulary proplay.

Toplane? well urgot and poppy got their changes and ornn, nautilus and rumble are next for it while aatrox and akali are in for their reworks. alos toplaneitem changes come 8.12 with 2 new items.

HàrrowR1 votes

Except top lane,mid or jungle aren't played by a dedicated class of champions,you can play Assasssins,tanks,mages,fighters on all of these positions,so there's a lot more variety than when comparing to bot lane,specifically adc role,where you only have like 14 champs to chose out of,while other roles get double or triple that. Also just something else is also a problem doesn't mean we should forget about this

Mr Mxyzptlk1 votes

Yeah but that also makes it harder to balance top lane since there's so many different classifications of champions in one role appeasing all of them would be much more difficult compared to mid where you see either an assassin or a mage. So that's why top lane needs more attention then bot which is all i'm trying to say.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

List of champions bad in bot lane right now Lucian Kalista

List of champions bad in top lane right now Aatrox Akali Mordekaiser Urgot Teemo Ornn NautilusRumble Poppy Shen Nasus Kennen Chogath

List of champions bad in mid lane right now Azir Ryze Galio Taliyah Syndra Viktor Kassadin Heimerdinger

List of bad junglers right nowNunu Gragas Nidalee Sejuani Olaf Elise

nah but the adcs need attention because there definitely suffering right now.

You literally have no idea what you are talking, going beyond the clear difference between champions being bad and champions needing a rework, half those champions are not actually bad and the most that are have less to do with them and more to do with the meta and items(FYI 8.12 is the fighter patch so that list shrinks even more).

Fyi a Rework is asking for a change in their kit, not balancing. Meaning there are things in their kit that is highly unattractive(in Kalista's case its the heavy reliance of Support more then any other ADC).

DerMangoJoghurt1 votes

I think Riot decided that reworking those "strong in high elo, weak in low elo" champions usually isn't worth the time and effort for the results they're getting. They'd rather focus on more urgent reworks.

Demon King Maou1 votes

If stormrazor ever makes it to live kalista can abuse that for a comeback .. Just sayin

saltran2 votes

What helps Kalista on next patch is the item 3153 and item 3072 buff, not Stormrazor imo.

Rysophage1 votes

the crit changes will help a bit, but yeah she's just like... a worse kalisa. just like vayne.

Malix Farwin1 votes

To be Honest with you, the biggest reason Kalista is rarely picked is because of her Ultimate. Not only does it heavily rely on another player but a specifically Player you make an "Oath" with. If that person is bad or is rarely around you after laning, you basically have no ultimate. This makes it really good for competitive play but horrible for soloq.

You will simply not see a lot of Kalistas because of her R, especially when there are a lot of ADCs that do not have such a crutch of a gimmick. Imo she has the worst designed R in the game.

Metal Janna1 votes

They could improve her winrate without touching her combat power by simply making her less tilting to play with. Remove the non-consensual oath swearing Riot!

The Space Cowboy1 votes

Ya change passive to only hop after spells or something and give her all the late game dps you want.

Scuffproof1 votes

She needs some sort of change to her Passive. Kalista is probably the most broken (and by that I don't mean overpowered or underpowered) champ in the game right now and the worst case of mobility creep this game has ever experienced. The main reason for that is her Passive being extremely toxic towards any form of melee champion without a good gapcloser + stun once she gets enough attack speed. She simply can't be a balanced champion right now without a rework, she'll either be over- or underpowered. While I don't think the Passive should be removed entirely because it's still part of her identity, it should be changed in some way if you want her to be a healthy and balanced champion.

koshkyra1 votes

Rework ideas:

Passive: AA leap scaling off boot tier. It is not permanent, however, and she can use it for durations based off of her ablities. All drawbacks from the passive are removed.

Q: Damage increased moderately, range reduced slightly. Grants passive for 1 second, increased to 4 when near her soul ally (whatever its called.) Small slow added.

W: No changes to vision thing. Double-attack proc damage changed to flat magic damage with a slight AD and AP scaling (but it will be more damage) and applies slight slow. AS boost while near Soul ally increased slightly. Grants passive for 1 second, increased to 2 while near her soul ally.

E: Damage per additional spear reduced drastically. First spear damage increased slightly. Slow removed. Grants passive for 1 second per spear ripped out (only applies for the person with the most spears.) Capped at 3 seconds, increased to 10 while near her soul ally.

R: Range increased drastically. Kalista can recast while her ally is travelling to travel with them. Deals light AoE % hp magic damage to knocked up enemies. Grants passive for 12 seconds or until ally dies.

Bonipherus1 votes

I made a post a while back about how I thought she should be changed

let me know what you think

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/kBAjEAdA-kalistas-kit-and-a-possible-terriblegreat-idea

Hyquiem1 votes

Well fellow Kalista mains we azir’s waited who about you do to who knows maybe riot might give you the rework you need.

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