Honestly going full damage on ADCs is overrated and a force of habit

HàrrowR··33 votes·14,258 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65P5nDhUfb8

Unless you're playing with a support that has a ton of shields/heals like Soraka Lulu Janna or vs a favorable match up vs opponents that just can't dive through your frontline,i think going for a defensive item early in the game can be very beneficial.

I main adcs since S1 basically,well mostly mained Graves,and i was used to the idea of them being somewhat hard to kill,but ever since he was reworked (gutted) i realized i really really reaaally don't like playing the glass canon type,but it was a challenge and i already started loving the role. Although i always tried to make the class better at surviving and dueling,i always loved the "Korean builds" item 3153 item 3071 item 3046 for Ashe and Lucian and still use them. I always build item 3071 on MissFortune and i love how well Ezreal synergizes with item 3078 .

But what i never liked is how apparently the crit adcs always went full damage,with maybe going GA as their last item,and if you try and build something else you get flamed,but lately i've been trying out item 3071 or item 3143 as my 3rd or 4th item on different carries and to me personally it feels very very good,maybe its because i hate being squishy in the first place.

As you can see in the video above,sometimes going full damage means jack sh*t when you don't have a proper support to protect you or the enemy has a wild Zed in their team that can quickly flank you or just dash over your backline to one shot you. Instead of dying this fight to Zed i get the kill on him,Kled dies cause he overextended and stayed too long trying to kill me and i pick up another kill on Lee when we started chasing him in the jungle,we end up winning the game after we also take Baron,i cant help thinking that we'd lose if i went the standard full damage build,their Zed was obviously bad but fed since our mid had 5/13,i went from 5/3 to 5/6 cause of him oneshotting me,but buying item 3143 after item 3087 item 3031 and he just couldn't kill me as easy as before,he would throw himself at me trying to one shot me but i would repeatedly survive on 300-400 hp and he would either lose his ult or die trying to kill me,afterwards i went for item 3072 and item 3026 ,thats basically 750 hp and 100 armor more,which honestly felt a lot more useful than having more damage,i survived a couple of times somewhere around 300 hp and then managed to get some kills or destroy some turrets.

What are your opinions on this? Did anyone else have any success with this,cause it appears to me its better to do less damage but keep doing it,then to have potentially insane damage but never get to deal it,or lose time having to wait out the enemy ults before going in. Either way i think going item 3143 as a 3rd or 4th item will be my go to pick lol

Edit: Im not saying rush Omen,all im saying including one or all of these items item 3047 item 3072 item 3026 in your build instead of item 3006 another item 3087 item 3508 is a lot more worth if you don't have a good support/team,buying Omen instead of GA can work too,since without the revive its not as worth

81 Comments

Colton14748 votes

Ashe item 3075

[sg-ezreal]

BLIGHTBRINGER7 votes

We won't ever forget the Thornmail Ashe.

###RIPOldTutorial

wildfox997 votes

_any champion that went full damage and got oneshoted _: what do you expect? you didn't buy any defensive items...

ADC with no defensive item that got oneshoted : [insert any role] so broken he just threw a full rotation and killed me,ADCs got gutted


you are right,ADCs have many (and strong) defensive options but they were used to go full glass cannon and diving a team like a tank (well,it's an hyperbole but remember item 3504 meta?) and now that they can get killed like any other champion they feel weak for the ones used to play them before they don't even need to build a tank item when stuff like item 3140 item 3155 item 1031 (into item 3026 ) exist,now that you are NOT forced to rush item 3031 + item 3087 before your enemy and you can delay a bit your build,especially when one of them is enought for surviving an assassin/mage rotation in mid game

D357R0Y3R14 votes

adcs have many defensive options but NONE OF THEM are rushable

hexdrinker is the only rushable option and is extremely situational

HàrrowR5 votes

Yup,thats why i think its optimal to go Omen 3rd item if you need that defense,before you would go 2 zeal items and IE,that would give you 80% crit,i never liked this build and i sure as hell like it even less now that you would actually waste 20% of that crit,and for the same gold you can buy an item that will basically fuck over the enemy carry/bruiser/assassin.

i'd like to see someone try out a fight against 2 adcs,one going item 3031 item 3087 item 3143 and the other one item 3031 item 3087 item 3094

D357R0Y3R6 votes

First of all omen is also situational Second, it's still not rushable and you need IE/shiv which costs a massive amount of gold

meanwhile mages are able to build banshee against leblanc and zhonya against zed, or even build HP from morello/rylai/hunted guise, or Rod of ages

our rushable defensive option is item 3153 item 3072 which is a fucking terrible design in my opinion, i would gladly remove lifesteal and put flat HP on bork/BT

HàrrowR4 votes

We should be friends my friend,i always thought BoTRK or BT would be better if they had some HP on them instead of that shield on BT or that %HP steal active that BOtrk had.

I also admire mage itemization even though every mage will tell you their items are shit and ADCs have the best itemization ever,even though ADC build paths are just terrible,now worse than ever with IE being 2 BF swords,disgusting.

What i like the most about Mage items is that they give both offensive and defensive stats,usually AP and HP and how most mages can build something like item 3027 or item 3040 as their first core item,or just build any of these item 3116 item 3165 item 3151 item 3102 item 3157 after going item 3285

Always wanted some ADC items that would also give HP,like imagine PD being 3300 but also giving 300 hp,or just reverting item 3071 changes when it used to give 300 hp 55 damage and 30% Armor shred

wildfox991 votes

now worse than ever with IE being 2 BF swords,disgusting.

item 3089 = item 1058 + item 1058

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

how most mages can build something like

just few mages build those as core item,same for the others you mentaioned there is always a certain built path for mages (you build the same items on every burst mage)

like imagine PD being 3300 but also giving 300

on top of %damage reduction? no thanks,this item is strong enought

or just reverting item 3071 changes when it used to give 300 hp 55 damage and 30% Armor shred

i think this item is fine as it is,it's a really nice bruiser item

but another similar item for ADCs wouldn't be too bad

HàrrowR2 votes

Raba isnt a core build for any mage,its always bought somewhere 5th or 6th item or not even bought at all,IE is core for every crit ADC,and it is bought as your first item + zeal

wildfox991 votes

except for some mages like brand,it is,it gives a similar powerspike but since they know it's too expensive they buy it later

an AP wont go full damage if he's playing against a zed but he will delay its damage spike for buying a item 3157 so he can survive,now if any ADC would buy item 3026 (and eventually item 3047) he could at least survive if not win in some cases (assuming the assassin is NOT ahead and you are in early/mid game)

i really don't get ADC players,you are squishy and you expect an assassin (whose only purpose is killing squishy targets) not to kill you,a certain build path got nerfed (zeal into IE) and you expect it to be still broken (because it was),just change your playstyle

yes crit ADC feels weak,but not because they really are but because the meta doesn't really fit them,i know it's just a game so it doesn't mean anything but for example i saw a vayne with the item 3153 on hit build and she was literally melting everyone with 2 items + boots (she wasn't fed)

HàrrowR1 votes

{quoted}

except for some mages like brand,it is,it gives a similar powerspike but since they know it's too expensive they buy it later

an AP wont go full damage if he's playing against a zed but he will delay its damage spike for buying a item 3157 so he can survive,now if any ADC would buy item 3026 (and eventually item 3047) he could at least survive if not win in some cases (assuming the assassin is NOT ahead and you are in early/mid game)

i really don't get ADC players,you are squishy and you expect an assassin (whose only purpose is killing squishy targets) not to kill you,a certain build path got nerfed (zeal into IE) and you expect it to be still broken (because it was),just change your playstyle

yes crit ADC feels weak,but not because they really are but because the meta doesn't really fit them,i know it's just a game so it doesn't mean anything but for example i saw a vayne with the item 3153 on hit build and she was literally melting everyone with 2 items + boots (she wasn't fed)

Hell im not complaining,i know ADCs can still melt,i played Vayne yesterday,my supp left 10 mins before we WON,i had 17/7 and solo carried the game.

Also you're right,ADC players don't know how to itemize properly,mostly because they're used to having a support to cover their ass and if they die they think its the supports fault,also they think they are the ONLY source of damage in the team,so losing even 5% dps is obviously a 100% lose.

You can see in my video i was experimenting with even Omen to try and adapt adcs to my plastyle,aggressive and independent from supports,and Omen does that pretty good,but it isnt worth the hustle your team gives you for building it,everyone starts pinging you and flaming you if you start to lose the game even though you have the most damage done and the best score.

Better alternative was always right in front of me item 3047 item 3026 item 3139 item 3046 i mean i know its not real news that this items work,people build them all the time,pros build them all the time,its just that i never liked Armor/MR as much as i like flat HP,so i never bothered with them much,i'd maybe build Tabi on Lucian or MF,i never likd GA cause i felt like i always waste that revive,PD was good,but shiv burst felt better,and Merc just felt sub par compared to BT or BotRk.

But recently i got interested again in making ADCs more durable,as you can see from my post,so i wanted to give a try to these items again,and i also did the math on them,and holy shit,never knew armor/mr was that good,i mean just getting item 3047 item 3026 gives you 30% more hp effectively,without the revive ofc. So it would be like an ADC without it having almost 700 more hp. You throw in a item 3046 in there and now your opponent is doing 10% less damage to you,and if youre worried about some AP threat, you can always buy item 3139 that also gives you lifesteal and that cleanse can save your life in situations where 10k hp wouldnt.

So my recent builds look something like this:

item 3047 item 3046 item 3031 item 3026 item 3139 item 3036

If you change item 3046 item 3031 item 3036 for item 3153 item 3124 item 3091 you get an on-hit build and if you change it for item 3142 item 3147 item 3071 you get a lethality build

Basically with this builds i've seen Zeds straight up running past me in a team fight to ult someone else just cause they are afraid of wasting that ult,just how before they would always ult me even if a mage is on 30% hp just because of zhonyas.

Also your 1v1 potential skyrockets,you deal similar amounts of damage as going full damage,but Tabi,PD,GA make your enemy deal so much less damage not to mention QSS can really screw over some mages.

People just dont realize that those defensive items are there for a reason,going full damage can in the end hurt your overall damage,how many times i've survived an assassin rush with 100 hp thanks to tabi/ga and then i go on to murder the enemy team. Going full damage is viable only when you are insanely ahead,your support is very good or is playing janna/lulu/soraka or when youre in a coordinated 5 man team that will peel for you like crazy,anything other than that,and its Tabi PD IE GA MERC all the way

Nyarlathοtep6 votes

Wait what? While mages can indeed rush banshee's and zhonyas against lb and zed respectably, THEY HATE THEM. They cripple their damage and mana output by a lot. Hp items dont really make you tanky, they just make you beefy. Morello/rylai,hunted guise have no mana whatsoever (as such they are bad items to go first unless you have no mana) and roa is shit because it takes time to scale.

D357R0Y3R4 votes

{quoted}

Wait what? While mages can indeed rush banshee's and zhonyas against lb and zed respectably, THEY HATE THEM. They cripple their damage and mana output by a lot.

why do i care? it allows you to survive

what the fuck can adc do to survive against zed? nothing what can we do to survive against leblanc? you think 110 hp shield will help you? don't make me fucking laugh especially when the shield depends on lvl and adcs are underleveled

it cripples your damage? do you wanna talk about adcs building randuin that gives zero fucking offensive stat?

ye u don't

Hp items dont really make you tanky

yes they do hp is a tank stat

Nyarlathοtep5 votes

why do i care? it allows you to survive

Survive and do what? Aa? Because your mana pool aint gonna hold.

what the fuck can adc do to survive against zed? nothing

Hug your support maybe? There is a reason why adcs are going on duo lane and mages are not.

what can we do to survive against leblanc? you think 110 hp shield will help you? don't make me fucking laugh especially when the shield depends on lvl and adcs are underleveled

Nullifying Orb, boneplate, your supp and death's dancer.

it cripples your damage? do you wanna talk about adcs building randuin that gives zero fucking offensive stat?

Then dont build it? You are buying a pure tank item. OF COURSE IT WONT GIVE OFFENSIVE STATS.

Outside of some cases, adcs shouldnt be buying omen.

yes they do hp is a tank stat

facepalm Dude, its not going to decrease the damage you are taking. You are just going to increase the time the enemy is going to kill you. Compared to DAMAGE REDUCTION, hp sucks sweet ass.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

{quoted}

facepalm Dude, its not going to decrease the damage you are taking. You are just going to increase the time the enemy is going to kill you. Compared to DAMAGE REDUCTION, hp sucks sweet ass.

https://i.gyazo.com/4332c9c56a6ddfed357c5d4b349d8355.png

i'm going to teach you something

if you get 200 damage and you have 2000 hp, you get -10% max health if you get 200 damage and you have 3000 hp suddenly you -6.5% max health

so YES IT DOES DECREASE the damage you receive

Nyarlathοtep5 votes

facepalm x3

Is it really difficult to understand? No tell me. Hp with no RESISTANCES MAKES YOU BEEFY. Yes OFC overall it helps BUT with no resistances to back hp up IT HELPS WAY LESS compared to raw resistances. Especially considering what kind of items adc's have access too.

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

You know what else cripples your damage output? Dying instantly. It doesn't matter how much damage you do when you are LITERALLY a free kill against Zed because you still have like 40 armor and he just ults you.

wildfox992 votes

{quoted}

First of all omen is also situational Second, it's still not rushable and you need IE/shiv which costs a massive amount of gold

meanwhile mages are able to build banshee against leblanc and zhonya against zed, or even build HP from morello/rylai/hunted guise, or Rod of ages

those items give less AP than others and no mana pool,so wonder what happen? like for an ADC building a defensive item they lose damage and their sustain,if they go full damage they get oneshoted as well

then mages have way less choices than ADs and can build only 1 def item

our rushable defensive option is item 3153 item 3072 which is a fucking terrible design in my opinion, i would gladly remove lifesteal and put flat HP on bork/BT

lifesteal is too weak early game and too strong lategame where you start to draintank everything

replacing some lifesteal with HP/AR/MR or more interactive passives doesn't sound like a bad idea

PhDs Nuts3 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, adc dont need to go omen for survivability. Death's dancers is more than enough to do the trick.

Death's. Dance. Doesn't. Reduce. Damage.

Tegash2 votes

UNIQUE: Stores 30% of all physical and magic damage received, and is taken as damage over time true damage instead, dealing one-third of the stored damage every second.

No, it doesn't. But it does mitigate damage. You shave off 30% of 1000 damage, you get 700. Over the next 3 seconds, you take 100 true damage per second.

Combine this with Phantom Dancer and ONE other Lifesteal item. You are now healing in battle for the same amount being mitigated, PLUS taking an additional 12% less damage from your primary target. If that's an assassin with Lethality, that's almost as good as having an additional 30-40 armor.

BestPudgeNA6 votes

Same shit different year man "ADCs in 2017 LUL, lethality is busted what do you mean i should get armor, i'm a challenger ADC your Silver STFU" Buys item 3006 instead of item 3047 while greyscreened.

It took 3+ months of ADCs getting one shotted to convince challenger ADCs to even try building ninja tabi. Good luck trying to get ADC mains to use their brains, shit is never gonna happen

HàrrowR2 votes

ikr,if pros started going omen then everyone would jump on the bandwagon,the problem is people think what's best for the pros is best for them,yet they don't realize those pros are a team that play thousands of games together and coordinate their every move,specifically speaking about adcs,their whole team works to protect him,and the support doesn't leave his side. That's why you don't see a lot of assassins in LCS games,but when you go play a plat game,not to mention lower elo,you can see Zed having 25/4 cause people can't group up,or don't care to protect the carry,ping miss,play safe etc.

ChaddyFantome5 votes

There is merit to what you are saying. Every other role adapts with the ranges in the meta.

SanKakU4 votes

I have success with it when my allies aren't spamming concede and typing 'you bought item X on champ Y'.

HàrrowR1 votes

I honestly have to mute all when i want to try something different,hell even when you build black cleaver on MF as a third,fourth or last item someone in your team is bound to ping it for some reason even though its a good buy,its interesting that no one does that for any other lane,they only inspect what the ADC is building

PopcornBunni2 votes

{quoted}

I honestly have to mute all when i want to try something different,hell even when you build black cleaver on MF as a third,fourth or last item someone in your team is bound to ping it for some reason even though its a good buy,its interesting that no one does that for any other lane,they only inspect what the ADC is building

Nah it happens if you build battlemage or bruiser items midlane too.

Leblanc item 3065 item 3001 Talon item 3748

Wild Geese4 votes

There was a time when going full damage on ADC was frowned upon, but something changed... Whatever changed to make them think BF Sword building into GA was a good idea.

HàrrowR2 votes

I kinda remember going Warmong on Ashe as your 4th or 5th item was a normal thing to do during S1 or S2

Wild Geese2 votes

{quoted}

I kinda remember going Warmong on Ashe as your 4th or 5th item was a normal thing to do during S1 or S2

Banshee used to be a thing on ADC, when it had MR and health, that was nice..

Yeah Warmogs was sometimes a late item, especially on Graves..

The thing is the tank items aren't as efficient to build one anymore; and Phantom Dancer used to be such a good DPS item, you didn't need a ton of damage items (BT+ IE+PD)

ProfDrDeath2 votes

That change was called preseason 6, when Riot started balancing ADCs around 3 crit items instead of 2 and made Last Whisper only apply against bonus Armor.

Now, that is reverted - so, ffs, ADCs, build some defenses.

Pierce The Veal4 votes

I keep telling that to people but they just won’t accept ranged adc building anything other than full damage.

They say “we need to build full synergistic offense items or we’re useless.” But the reality is they’re not, they bring dps to the table, and tower taking potential. Building somewhat tanky on them isn’t bad.

HàrrowR3 votes

Honestly sometimes you're gonna feel like you cant make a dent in the enemy team even when youre full build and all damage. But 90% of the time item 3087 item 3031 item 3153 is enough damage,that leaves enough room for two defensive items,most people buy GA or Maw anyways,adding another Spirit Visage/Omen or whatever you need in there can make a world of difference vs poke or all ins.

Also people give more credit to ADCs than they deserve honestly,i mean when i play a mid mage i usually have the most damage dealt,even when i play ADC sometimes my mid or top laner out damage me or have only 10k damage less than me,its a team game,you aren't meant to be the only one dealing damage,if your team mates think you've lost the game because you bought omen instead of another zeal item while they have 1/12 they're just trying to shift the blame onto you.

I mean i've carried games with ADCs but some times i get carried by my mid/jg/top no matter my build,and lets face it,people going standard build will still lose 50% of the time,if you switch up one offensive for one defensive item i doubt that you will change your win rate,it could just make the game more enjoyable,if you hate being a glass canon like me that is. I just feel like it evens out,going more damage means you kill something faster but die faster,so you might deal 3k damage in 5 seconds and die,or on the other hand you might get some defensive stats,deal less damage,but stay alive longer to do it,and again deal 3k damage but in 8 seconds or something,where you bought yourself 3 extra seconds of shooting time.

Also i don't think people realize some extra benefits of having some surviveability,like starving an enemy assassin that can't one shot you anymore,people diving you and over committing and ending up dead like you can see kled in the video does,having more time for your supp to react,or get his spells back up,i mean those 3 seconds of extra life can save your life if your support gets another round of shields and heals to protect you with.

Pierce The Veal3 votes

{quoted}

Honestly sometimes you're gonna feel like you cant make a dent in the enemy team even when youre full build and all damage. But 90% of the time item 3087 item 3031 item 3153 is enough damage,that leaves enough room for two defensive items,most people buy GA or Maw anyways,adding another Spirit Visage/Omen or whatever you need in there can make a world of difference vs poke or all ins.

Also people give more credit to ADCs than they deserve honestly,i mean when i play a mid mage i usually have the most damage dealt,even when i play ADC sometimes my mid or top laner out damage me or have only 10k damage less than me,its a team game,you aren't meant to be the only one dealing damage,if your team mates think you've lost the game because you bought omen instead of another zeal item while they have 1/12 they're just trying to shift the blame onto you.

I mean i've carried games with ADCs but some times i get carried by my mid/jg/top no matter my build,and lets face it,people going standard build will still lose 50% of the time,if you switch up one offensive for one defensive item i doubt that you will change your win rate,it could just make the game more enjoyable,if you hate being a glass canon like me that is. I just feel like it evens out,going more damage means you kill something faster but die faster,so you might deal 3k damage in 5 seconds and die,or on the other hand you might get some defensive stats,deal less damage,but stay alive longer to do it,and again deal 3k damage but in 8 seconds or something,where you bought yourself 3 extra seconds of shooting time.

Also i don't think people realize some extra benefits of having some surviveability,like starving an enemy assassin that can't one shot you anymore,people diving you and over committing and ending up dead like you can see kled in the video does,having more time for your supp to react,or get his spells back up,i mean those 3 seconds of extra life can save your life if your support gets another round of shields and heals to protect you with.

I mean, it’s simple math. Aoe damage champion should deal more damage overall than a single target champion. Makes perfect sense.

People just automaticaly assume that because they’re ranged and an adc they need to deal damage. Some of the best azirs get frozen heart on him, why is that?

It seems like ADC’s just can’t accept that the rules that apply to all the other champions also apply to them.

It makes perfect sense that giving up some damage for defense end up boosting an adc’s damage dealt overall.

When an ezreal builds an iceborn gauntlet, I usually have to give up assassinating him as an AD assassin because he is too damn tanky for me to kill before his team can help him.

If every champion in the game built 1-2 defensive items, assassins like zed just end up useless, starved for gold, and just unable to do anything. Their entire purpose is to get rid of a carry, bur if the carries are tanky enough, he just becomes a melee minion.

Atmosphere1 votes

Good points, bad examples. Iceborn is built on Ezreal because it's defensive, yes, but it also synergizes with his kit because of the Sheen passive. It increases his damage output and has the 1.5 second aoe slow. Something like Randuin's isn't the same, as it's built purely for survival and adds nothing that synergizes with ADC kits.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Good points, bad examples. Iceborn is built on Ezreal because it's defensive, yes, but it also synergizes with his kit because of the Sheen passive. It increases his damage output and has the 1.5 second aoe slow. Something like Randuin's isn't the same, as it's built purely for survival and adds nothing that synergizes with ADC kits.

The point being there are useful full defense and hybrid offensive/defensive that adc’s can use to great effect. Randuin’s will keep an adv alive long than iceborn, iceborn will increase their utility and damage while making them tanky.

Azadethe3 votes

Personally I kind of love item 3025 on MissFortune because it can out tank lane a tank support AND their adc. I've actually started out a game 8/0/7 by doing this vs an Alistar and Sivir. They don't know how to react to the early game slow or the sheen proc, and the CDR makes MF's E just spammable.

I generally go Grasp of the Undying + item 3156 on Jinx vs Mage lanes along with Second wind. Creates a vacuum where I can heal, take mage spam hits, do some additional damage to the adc/supports, and still CS well, as well as low HP Life steal/Spell vamp. Can go 10/0/10 on a build like this.

I'm tempted to get item 3143 on a KogMaw or Varus though..... because they usually die trading with larger hit adcs/junglers. could give them 2-3 more shots and take 1-2 less shots before they die which could turn around the trades.

HàrrowR2 votes

Go for it man,Varus and kog basically only need item 3153 item 3124 item 3085 to start dealing a lot of damage,you can go Omen then and finish it off with Wits End,i mean going Frozen Mallet was a standard build on Kog maw,not sure if people still do it,but it was built even in the LCS

Azadethe2 votes

P.S. Just went 8/0/4 as a tank Runed Jinx with a support Shaco vs a Draven +Bard

By the time they surrendered I had some 900 more HP than Draven. Tanked more damage than anyone on either team, both in mitigation and in damage taken. 0 Deaths. Honestly went into game telling my team, "WTF we have no tanks or skirmishers? I guess I'm gonna have to tank."

Went item 1055 item 1083 item 3071 item 1001 item 3086 and just melted the other team. Just with those little items..... I was up to 328 Crits. I bet I could have pushed over 1200 crits late game with a BC.

HàrrowR1 votes

Nicee,does it feel better to play when you have a little thicker skin?

Azadethe2 votes

The damage taps feel a little smaller early on, but the health sustain seems better. You basically wait for the good jungler ganks or the bad plays by the support or Draven who get caught out trying to ward the river, or stay too long at low HP. 1 of my kills was a Base to Lane shot at Draven recalling blind behind his own turret. He stayed in lane low while my jungler and support taunted him, tanked too many minions and then thought he was safe recalling.

Once I had the Black Cleaver..... I just melted them. Phage move speed + Grasp damage + the armor penetration just made Bard start taking obscene amounts of damage.

Personally..... I've been doing this a long time. It works, and generally is safer than full front loaded adc. It does sometimes feel slightly weaker late game, but the sustain usually makes up for it.

Attticus Finch3 votes

Buying defensive items on ADC's is pointless because by the nature of their kits (and by the nature of how much damage is in the game now) an ADC with 1 tank item is only marginally more survivable then a marksman without a tank item, and yet the marksman with the tank item is going to do significantly less damage then the marksman with just damage items.

Basically, a Tristana rushing a spirit visage is still going to get 100-0'd by the fed Fizz. The marginal increase in survivability isn't going to make up for delaying your power spike by 15 minutes.

That said ADCs have been dipping into bruiser items like DD and frozen mallet for years, so this isn't exactly a new concept. Full tank items on marksmen will never be efficient purchases though.

HàrrowR2 votes

Honestly i strongly disagree,watch the video again,i survive a full kled and zed combo,there was a ton of situations like this in that game and in others i played after trying Omen out,the fact that you survive with 200 hp with Omen means you would be dead without it,and the fact that you can now get back in the fight and deal damage evens out the difference between full damage and having 1-2 defensive items. Yes,sometimes it will be more usefull to have a full damage build when no one can get to you,but sometimes,when you get a Pyke support that chases their backline and leaves you alone so you have to fend for yourself,that full damage build wont mean jack shit when an enemy Rene can flash on you and combo you 100-0.

Also saying that one defensive item will make you "marginally more survivable" but having an extra damage item will give you "significantly more damage" is kinda ridiculous. Going item 3006 item 3031 item 3087 item 3072 vs item 3006 item 3031 item 3087 item 3143 wont lower your damage significantly,you will be doing,after resistances,maybe 300 damage per crit vs 240,if your target has 2k hp,the difference is literally one auto (7vs8),hell even if the difference was 3 autos most of the time it would even out with you having more survivability to actually fire those 3 extra shots.

Also no one mentioned rushing Spirit Visage or Omen,again its like you didn't even read the post. I made Omen after IE and Shiv,you could even make it as a last item,but most of the time i see people opt for even 2 lifesteal items that wont do shit to prevent you from getting blown up but dont consider buying any dedicated defensive items like Omen or SV. All im saying is,if you dont have a good support,or an enchanter support,or a team that will peel for you or if an enemy has a fed assassin or something like Irelia Going item 3006 item 3087 item 3031 item 3072 item 3143 item 3026 will be better than going item 3006 item 3087 item 3031 item 3094 item 3508 item 3036

First build has effectively 750 more HP,100 more armor,20% reduced crit damage,15% AS slow when hit,active MS slow to kite if someone dives you,and a revive,while also having only one item that doesn't give you damage,while the second build can do boat loads of damage on paper,in a real game its enough for you to catch a few AOE spells or for Kha to go invis and instagib you before you or your supp can react. Like i said,i believe it kinda evens out,you will have more opportunities to deal damage,even if its less DPS it will stack up. Maybe try it out yourself,build item 3143 item 3072 item 3026 after your core items and see what happens,maybe its not for you

Häxel1 votes

you said you barely survived in this clip cause the tankitem. But you got luckily them engaging after another gave enough free time to heal you up constantly with lifesteal. Assuming none of them also got a item 3123 or item 3076 for gw.

In a real where most times teamfights come with a big engage like kled ult the lee would also try to get on the caitlyn and not just ult and q on yi. Same with zed who could easily come with kleds movementspeed to the fight but just came far later. So if just 2 of them attacked you at the same time you could have been dead. Lets say kled and lee popped your ga and than zed came. Then the fight could have turnded a bit diffrent. Ofcourse still would be lost cause ez was mid so you just fighted with more people. But maybe zed could ahve killed you after ga cause you could not lifesteal enough and maybe not, who knows. Point is you survived cause they fucked up hard, not cause you had 1-2 tankitems. Mentioning flash engage of renek but fo this is not either your positioning on vision bad or you should have also flash ready when he has it? And nearly every support has some cc, even soraka can silence. Pyke has the hook and stun. and item 3047 can reduce realy strong the burst of an renekton. And then there also exists summoner 7 and summoner 3 . But on the other hand instead of having a item 3072 but having a item 3143 is a huge dmg lost with 80 less ad.. Yea even item 3026 instead of bt is an ad lost. And you having far less dmg as enemy adc who hase more or less equal protection but shreds faster your frontline then you theirs: Guess which teamcomb is gonna win?

An adc building full dmg cause a: he can cause he has range and doesn't need to go in like a jax. And b: He has no defensive tools that strenghts most tanky targets. A Nautilus with tankitems also profits far more from the shield as he can use it far more times so a full tank nautilus outtanks a full tank caitlyn. and a jax who goes ful dmg/heal with steraks and no resitances iss till tanky cause a he has his counterstrike to block and cc and b he has his ult passive to gain resistances by his dmg items. but both jax and nautilius fight most times in 5 enemies while the adc fights maybe 2. So a normal range adc is most times fine but if more as 3 attack regardless if he has 0, 1 or3 tankitems he is gonna die, especialy with mixed dmg (hey, in your clip they just had ad in this teamfight). And super especialy caitlyn with highest range, traps and her e should be super safe, only lv 18 tris is better. you know the ga i would have understanded on a vayne or kaisa but not 650 range cait.

HàrrowR1 votes

Yes in theory going full ad should win always,but in reality you will get jumped,dived,poked,etc. If every teamfight was as you describe then no adc would ever die. You forget that pros used to build ninja tabi recently,you could argue that the adc with zerkers would win a teamfight because of that dps increase but it doesnt go down like that. Also not every fight is a 5v5,most of the time you will be lucky if even your supp peels for you and doesnt chase for the kill,lets be realistic,this isnt lcs

FilDaFunk2 votes

If you include a video as an example of a good build, maybe tell us the build in the video?

HàrrowR2 votes

item 3006 item 3087 item 3031 item 3143 item 3072 item 3026 ,just tried going omen third item on Vayne and we won,i could 1v1 fed Rene that flashes on me,without Omen you'd just die right there,now you survive and go on to kite him to death

Its All Skillzz2 votes

With sated devour i always built tank on vayne jungle. item 1419 item 3153 item 3022 item 3143 item 3065 item 3006 Was like my standard build, with razor being devourer instead, i guess you could still do this and just swap razor for a rageblade. https://youtu.be/J90cuduoXIE i actually found this clip where i went tanky vayne mid in a ranked game about plat 2 i think it was. I had 2 damage items and a visage an working on my mallet.

Wood Tier IV2 votes

Omen on adc has been meta for awhile vs full ad. Ninja tabi, ga omen, then IE, 2 zeal items was my go to build vs full ad with 2 crit champs.

Nyarlathοtep

To be fair, adc dont need to go omen for survivability. Death's dancers is more than enough to do the trick.

HàrrowR4 votes

Honestly i find it hard to believe that 400 hp,60 armor,20% damage reduction from crit,15% AS slow,and an Active MS slow is worse than a lifesteal item that just delays the burst,going both though would be optimal

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