There are some problems with the game that I don't want to ignore

Shiroyashayami··97 votes·19,050 views
  1. Damage is too high. Overall. People here oneshot with 3 abilities which wouldn't happen in S5 except for overpowered champions (there were always 2-3 broken ass champions that were permabanned).
  2. Too many dashes. It makes playing champions without dashes too risky to pick. You get out of position once and you are dead (wouldn't be a problem if damage wasn't this high).
  3. Meta is favouring high mobility champions which makes the game more action based than tactical.
  4. Inting, afk and trolling is even more often than it was in previous season, even tho punishments are increased and banning rate is higher.
  5. Some champions have skills that are undodgable, which makes the whole design of them questionable.
  6. Self-healing on some champions is disgusting (mostly Kayn, he ults you and is full hp again).
  7. Cdr are too easy to obtain, so we don't sacrifice anything (i would prefer cdr to be more for supporting characters than for basically everybody) people walk with 40-45% cdr every game. Sometimes after 2 items.
  8. Crowd Control skills are too long. In damage meta getting stunned for 3-4 or even 5 seconds means that you are dead. (again, wouldn't be such a big problem if damage was lower)
  9. Scaling is too important (if you buy one ap item you might as well go full ap), in previous seasons we would get some mr or ad on a mage to survive longer or be more useful. There were more variations of builds.
  10. Jungle is the worst role (nerfed hard) and boring (reworked into a weird crab hunting minigame) but for some reason it has the most impact over the games so a bad jungler can lose you a game.
  11. Early game junglers have a lot of pressure and can decide the games, while mid-late game junglers don't exist because playing them is basically inting (if you don't play an early game jungler your team will be 0-10 before you even clear your camps and get level 6)
  12. Ap items are not diverse at all. They are just there to give stats (except for zhonia, which is a badly designed item and should be removed) (basically an "you activated my trap card" kind of item)
  13. Ad items do damage on their own which is why Shaco ended up in such a bad state (Duskblade does damage instead of just giving stats and maybe having an active use just like other items of the sort, i can tolerate Triforce tho)
  14. Adc meta doesn't budge. Some champions are left to rot and others are slightly overpowered (Jinx is an exception, she is not slightly overpowered but massively broken, I love her but I usually don't play broken champions, it makes me feel like I don't deserve to win)
  15. Mordekaisers ultimate makes some champions unable to even get close to him (they are dead if they do, because 1v1 against him is too much for them, looking at Twitch here but other champions have similar problems with that ult).

If you disagree just write it down. Downvoting only closes the topic, which is important and should be talked about more often. Ignoring problems doesn't solve them.

71 Comments

Beacon Academy30 votes

I just don't understand.

If you have many options (CC/Mobility/Other effects), you should have low damage and/or durability If you have low options, you should have high damage and/or durability

Its so fucking simple, but Riot has been fucking up for years

ZeroSixTeen8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xcV8KF52,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-09-22T01:16:08.626+0000)

I just don't understand.

If you have many options (CC/Mobility/Other effects), you should have low damage and/or durability If you have low options, you should have high damage and/or durability

Its so fucking simple, but Riot has been fucking up for years

This! Riot has gone off the rails on giving new champions and reworks a bit of everything. They are tanky assassins with high mobility and ranged cc. There should be made a compromise, you get one or the other. You dont get to both cc the enemy and have mobility yourself, you dont get to take damage and deal damage. If you build a warmogs then you should not deal damage any more, you dont get to both have 3000 hp and oneshot people at the same time. It should be like that for everthing, cc, mobility, sustain, poke. If you have more stuff then it should be jack of all trades master of none. You should have to choose, not get everything.

BrokenRayquaza2 votes

The issue is that they have to make new and diverse champions to have that champ be played. That's why Qiyana is a slightly mobile assassin that specializes in massive teamfights. No other assassin does that, so they made her. Also people nowadays just say everything is broken without even playing against it and at least trying to learn to play against it.

LegendmakerGTX4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xcV8KF52,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-09-22T01:16:08.626+0000)

I just don't understand.

If you have many options (CC/Mobility/Other effects), you should have low damage and/or durability If you have low options, you should have high damage and/or durability

Its so fucking simple, but Riot has been fucking up for years

Anyone remember the day when champions who have CC or a slow never have mobility or if they have mobility they never have a CC/slow? Ya Riot hired rookies who think stuffing a champion full of ability/second effect was smart.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

Anyone remember the day when champions who have CC or a slow never have mobility or if they have mobility they never have a CC/slow? Ya Riot hired rookies who think stuffing a champion full of ability/second effect was smart.

No, when I started playing Ahri Alistar Amumu Diana Elise Gragas Hecarim JarvanIV Jax Khazix LeeSin Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Pantheon Renekton Riven Sejuani Shen Vayne Vi Warwick MonkeyKing XinZhao Zac already had both a dash and a form of CC (sometimes on the same ability, sometimes on different abilities).

At least, I think all of them did. I may be misremembering some people's pre-rework kits.

JustDonnyy26 votes

It's like the entire boards summed up into one post. All you're missing is some complaining about Loot Boxes and Eternals. Maybe with a sprinkle of skin-favoritism.

Either way, they're all pretty valid points, but as everyone finds out eventually, nothing we say on the boards matter.

Jennifer42022 votes

you dont need to ignore them, riot does it for you :D

ReySolomon3 votes

{quoted}

you dont need to ignore them, riot does it for you :D

LOL! Clever.

Rαy12 votes

The insane amount of damage destroys the feeling I had when I fell in love with this game. The calm and tactical aspect of League completely vanished and got replaced by an ADHD oneshot fiesta.

I am glad people are trying to raise their voices before pre-season.

5050BS6 votes

You missed #16 Smurfs

Icy Hot Shoto5 votes

I have a few questions on some of your points.

6; When you say Kayn, do you mean Rhaast? Kayn doesn't have any kind of healing on his ult without Death's Dance if he's not Rhaast, and even then I've yet to see a Kayn or Shadow Assassin Kayn heal a ton from his ult with Death's Dance. If I've missed Kayn himself healing like that then please point me to where I can see it, as I'm confused here.

15; While I can also agree Morde ult is a pain in the ass, there is a counter. QSS, invisibility, being unstoppable, and being untargetable cancel his ult, while spell shields block it if you can time it right. Are people just unaware of this or do they not have the stuff or have the stuff up for it?

Other than those two questions, I'm not concerned about everything else. You're basically spot on.

ExplodingFist667 votes

no one's gonna buy QSS early, Mordekaiser's R starts a snowball from the beginning

the issue is that he can 1v1 supports, champions who are not able to duel him at all, rather just kite him and hope for the best

EternalDominate2 votes

Any champion can 1v1 supports? You mean the fact he can take them out of the teamfight? So can a malphite ult I dont get what you mean.

ExplodingFist663 votes

Supports can be peeled too. If a Zed ults your Janna, your main instinct is to CC/turn quickly on him so your support doesn't die right? That's not the case for Mordekaiser at all. The only thing you can do is wait for the Death Realm suppression to ware off and the support will live with one HP.

Kazekiba3 votes

{quoted}

Supports can be peeled too. If a Zed ults your Janna, your main instinct is to CC/turn quickly on him so your support doesn't die right? That's not the case for Mordekaiser at all. The only thing you can do is wait for the Death Realm suppression to ware off and the support will live with one HP.

Janna gets Zed R?

Alright cool let me just Eye of the Storm myself, aa+W and walk backwards, charge my Q to hit Zed if he does(n't) pop W, and then R before he can ignite or right before the mark pops. Okay cool I avoided 85% of the damage im good now.

Janna gets morde R, it's time to be a track and field star and run for your life or Mordekaiser gets like 50 ms for free and a small chunk of AP to boot hurrah. I love being a walking item 3020 for the enemy top laner!!!

LightswornLance1 votes

Well if you think about it you are basically peeling the mordekaiser ultimate from your adc. If morde took your adc out of the fight and killed them the fights lost, a janna? Not so much.

Sire Hippington1 votes

well, if that morde has an assasins with him, removeing janna is probably more effective for killing tha adc than trying to 1v1 the adc

LightswornLance1 votes

Then your team lost a support for 7 seconds and the enemies lose their juggernaut. Seems like 10/10 times you should win that 4v4.

Sire Hippington3 votes

Janna is an odd example, cause unless he ults her right after she blew all her CDs, he will not be able to touch her... But yea, the fact that he can pick whoever seems a suitable victime and no one can do anything about it is rather broken. Imo it's only a matter of time till we see support morde, rushing zhonyas and ulting the enemy main carry just to remove him from the fight for 4+sec, useing zhonya's to make sure he doesn#t die to quick...

ChiefDovahkin3 votes

{quoted}

no one's gonna buy QSS early, Mordekaiser's R starts a snowball from the beginning

the issue is that he can 1v1 supports, champions who are not able to duel him at all, rather just kite him and hope for the best

Exactly! If you spend gold on QSS he's going to auto attack you to death anyway. Very few champs are statted early game to be able to deal with him @ 6.

Kazekiba1 votes

{quoted}

no one's gonna buy QSS early, Mordekaiser's R starts a snowball from the beginning

the issue is that he can 1v1 supports, champions who are not able to duel him at all, rather just kite him and hope for the best

but supports also have very low stats, so he doesnt get as much from it as he would others. That said, "just ult th support LOL" was exactly why they didnt give this R to Fiora with her VGU like 4 years ago. Exactly why Camille's R doesnt prevent teammates from joining (just knocked them back on impact) Theyve toyed with the idea of Mordes R multiple times, decided it was a terrible idea, and then put it on mordekaiser because no one plays him anyway I guess, and that makes it somehow fine.

Spoiler: It didn't, it isn't, and it wasn't. It won't be. It won't EVER be fine, in a 5v5 team game, to isolate a specific target for a long period of time to fight to the death. Because there's always 1 or 2 people on the other team who can't solo fight or avoid death when theyre alone.

VanCanBanMan1 votes

hehehe qss/cleanse. People buy it for champs like skarner and malz why not morde

ExplodingFist661 votes

because

  1. most people who haven't played against mord knows that QSS instantly removes it
  2. its not necessary to buy QSS when mord isn't ulting you for most fights, but its least expected when he does it once
  3. it can usually be negated by spell shields, flash, and just CCing him in general
  4. the R is useless once Mord is low hp, that way he can't really 1v1 a healthy target unless he has insane healing

And the most important of all, you can just kite him because he's so immobile. All of these factors join in to not spending 1300 gold for such a counteractive ability. The issue that's spiking here is supports who are forced to 'duel' him in his realm

Shiroyashayami1 votes

Yes. When i say Kayn I mean Rhaast. Also Shadow Assassin heals a lot too. He is so mobile that I think he doesn't need any healing. His clear is briliant as well. Comparing him to my champions is like comparing a Mecha Godzilla to an ant (all my champions are Tier 5 because Riot doesn't care about them). Also his basic form, which is Kayn kinda sucks, but if a good Kayn player knows how to play in early game, he might actually be unstoppable.

To gank a Mordekaiser as Twitch I have to come close to him while invisible, if he ults me I cannot do anything. Supports get dragged into his ult and killed there in teamfights, without being able to do anything. Early QSS is like giving up the lane.

But yeah, Mordekaiser ult would be ok if it was a skillshot, because as for now when he ults his ult animation is almost unnoticable so even if you have a counter build in your kit you won't manage to use it at the exact moment that you should.

Kayn, I feel that its a good champion and only that healing feels unfair but that can be countered as well so its just a minor problem. Nothing big enough to make radical changes.

Icy Hot Shoto1 votes

I'm still iffy on Shadow Assassin healing a ton outside his w, but I'll see if I can find someone doing it later, as well as see how much people are healing from the w alone. Unfortunately I don't see him much myself in games to say much. I can come back afterwards to give my opinion on that bit if you'd like.

Kayn himself being meh when you don't know what you're doing I would hope is intended, it would be bad if he was super strong as base Kayn when you don't know him then evolved into even worse. At least this way if you get him behind then when he does change forms he's still behind for at least a little while, if not the whole game depending.

Maybe for Morde ult a much more noticable particle would help instead of it being turned into a skillshot? Perhaps fixing that first and seeing if that changes anything would be better before outright making it a skillshot. And if nothing changes, then see about making it a skillshot would help.

Though I can admit/agree that Morde ulting the support is annoying.

And thank you for taking your time to respond and explain those points more. c:

Eonslegacy1 votes

triumph and ravenous hunter with the deaths dance and or red pot results in some insane self heal. On a fed shadow. But its available for most people so its not shadow specific. But he does have a massive self heal base on his wall entrance tho.

LightswornLance4 votes

Of all the things to complain about, dont complain about a champion with a straight 50% winrate and 0% pro play time. You could at least learn what the champion does. Kayn is extremely weak early on and when he gets his form he only becomes a slightly above average teamfighter.

Eonslegacy1 votes

He has a 50% winrate because people choose the wrong form 50% of the time [slayer-jinx-wink] [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] jk jk that was /s We all know most people main 1 form not the other tho so not entirely wrong XD

holystack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Icy Hot Shoto,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xcV8KF52,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-22T00:01:29.565+0000)

I have a few questions on some of your points.

6; When you say Kayn, do you mean Rhaast? Kayn doesn't have any kind of healing on his ult without Death's Dance if he's not Rhaast, and even then I've yet to see a Kayn or Shadow Assassin Kayn heal a ton from his ult with Death's Dance. If I've missed Kayn himself healing like that then please point me to where I can see it, as I'm confused here.

15; While I can also agree Morde ult is a pain in the ass, there is a counter. QSS, invisibility, being unstoppable, and being untargetable cancel his ult, while spell shields block it if you can time it right. Are people just unaware of this or do they not have the stuff or have the stuff up for it?

Other than those two questions, I'm not concerned about everything else. You're basically spot on.

Why are you even getting downvoted at all? lol

Tin Obliterates5 votes

{quoted}

  1. Too many dashes. It makes playing champions without dashes too risky to pick. You get out of position once and you are dead (wouldn't be a problem if damage wasn't this high).

Mordekaiser hue hue hue

deadmendontlie4 votes

I do agree with you 99% percent of the things you say and do wanna comment almost all adc's are viable at the moment except cough cough Kalista, and Kog maw (just way too team dependent which is an issue especially when one person can decide a game if they lose lane) is still doing well if he can scale. The jinx thing is just due to the fact that she was created as all-around solid champ. She used to suffer a large amount early game until they did the q buff on her. Now you can get level 4 with lethal and can win a large number of fights as long as you do not fight poorly (by this I mean run in at bad times, or just take way too much poke). She also just prays on people's terrible positioning in fights mid to late game so if she resets she pops off hard and is hard to hit due to high movement speed and attack speed.

Shleelpboy3 votes

You're going to have to ignore them because of riot won't care and being truthful. I agree with you on everything.

Dolfro3 votes

One thing i disagree with is to NOT removing anything(items,summoner's spells etc) just because meta is so fucked up. Why would you remove zhonya when the actual problem is damage?

Shiroyashayami3 votes

Because Zhonia has a really bad design as an item. Its an item that you can outplay somebody with by clicking one button. Nobody really enjoys it. I would prefer to have more diverse items for mages so that they really feel like mages. I wrote that damage is a problem and many of other problems would disappear if damage was lower so I also think that damage is the real problem. Zhonia on the other hand would be more interactive if it was working like phantom dancer or maw of malmortius. As for now, when somebody outplays you or is stronger than you and you have Zhonia then you click one button and you cannot be killed. That dude that tryharded to kill you would die to your teammates. There isn't really a counterplay for this item, you just need to wait for it to go down.

But you are right, its a minor problem. Not even worth mentioning. Damage is the real problem.

hoganftw3 votes

Riot is just trying to turn this game into a spectacle sport. Viewers like the high mechanical skill fast paced big plays and Riot caters to their needs. Watching a tank outmacro Riven or some other high damage high mobility teamfight assassin bruiser isn't exciting to watch.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Agree with most of it, exeot one point:

Some champions have skills that are undodgable, which makes the whole design of them questionable

Meta is favouring high mobility champions which makes the game more action based than tactical.

The typical hypocrisis of the boards, complaining about mobillity but also about the one thing that keeps mobillity in check. If all and everything is dodgeable, mobillity just has even more advantages cause it makes dodgeing stuff a lot more easy.

Back in the day, mobillity and range were acounted for in the overall survivabillity for (most) champions. If you were mobile, you didn't have high range(hello Azir) or high Survivabillity, where as short ranged imobile champs actually were tanky. This lead to point n click nukes/cc mostly beeing strong vs mobile champs, as point n click usually has low range(<700). Imobile champs that had to get that close were durable enough to tank through it, while the other imobiles had high enough range to just stay away from it, while mobile champs had to get into range while beeing compareably squishy. Now imobiles aren't tanky enough unless fed, some mobile champs have just as much or more tankiness while others have good range or other mechanics that help, like akali sitting out cc in her shroud, while the number of piont n click CCs is very low by now.

Another big issue is that CC apparently isn't acounted for in the powerbudget for new champs, like Qiayna's ult beeing an as potent teamfight tool as malphs ult(which that was exeggerated, but it really isn't) while she's an mobile assasin with about the hgihest earlygame burst in the game(her lvl 3 all-in does even more damage than talons...) Aatrox getting 4 CCs that all interupt dashes and are unaffected by tenacity, Irelia haveing an aoe stun and a massive teamwide slow that even used to disarm... Why bother picking a low damage tank then new fighter/assasin designs have nearly as good engage with more damage. mobillity and a much stronger 1v1/splitpush, and if that wasn't bad enough, bruiser items just are more efficient for survivabillity(item 3026 item 3053 buy so much time all while still giveing decent AD) so they are nearly as 'tanky', though that's more an issue of tanks not nearly beeing tanky enough.

Scaling is too important (if you buy one ap item you might as well go full ap), in previous seasons we would get some mr or ad on a mage to survive longer or be more useful. There were more variations of builds.

I feel like there are two big issues here. First off, to many strong defensive option also have off stats. The main offenders beeing item 3053 item 3139 item 3026 item 3102 . Qss used to have no upgrade, later only some ad/mr, now it's an allready effective ad/mr/lifesteal item that comes with the insane active. GA used to be pure defense, same with Banshies, now you can get that revive or spellshield while hardly compromiseing your damage(atleast once your coregear is finished)

The other is that items depend to much on one another. Warmongs forces you to built other health items, Iceborn and thornmail need aditional armor items to feel good, flat pen was always good if stacked, but back in the day we had 1-2 options, now it's 3. throw in the mandatory %pen and ad-assasins/casters already have 4/5 itemslots filled. Crit hyperscaleing always was an issue, and with how overtuned the sustain from masteries is, adc don't even need a lifesteal item as they used to so they don't sacrifice alot when picking up 3-4 crit items, especially since there are two ad, 4as options, cdr, manasustain and various other effects from just going for crit. Also, tank stats are so inefficient comapred to how massive damage scales that throwing in 1-2 tank items for some def stats just doesn't do anything anymore, either you go full tank or you use cheeky effects like GA or zhonya's so there's even less reason to compromiss full damage builts.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

(except for zhonia, which is a badly designed item and should be removed

Remove zhonyas? Omegalel. Then how exactly are immobile squishy mages deal with zed, fizz, talon, trynda, yasuo, akali, or any high damage champ? Adcs have access to DD, phantom dancer, maws, scimitar and GA. Mages have zhonyas and seraphs (that needs to be stacked). Banshee's doesnt count because one stray luden's echo proc will deem it useless.

Mordekaisers ultimate makes some champions unable to even get close to him

Because its point and click? Because if then, might as well do it on a lot of champs like, kog (or any adc by late game), syndra, yi, yasuo, cass, kassadin, etc.
Here's the counterplay to morde's ulti. Cc, slows, zhonyas (or any other stasis effects) and lastly qss.

ChiefDovahkin1 votes

{quoted}

Remove zhonyas? Omegalel. Then how exactly are immobile squishy mages deal with zed, fizz, talon, trynda, yasuo, akali, or any high damage champ? Adcs have access to DD, phantom dancer, maws, scimitar and GA. Mages have zhonyas and seraphs (that needs to be stacked). Banshee's doesnt count because one stray luden's echo proc will deem it useless.

Mages already have a lot of options to deal with all in champions late. Most of them have superior range and easy to land cc, not to mention strong scaling burst. At the end of the day, a mage shouldn't be able to 1v1 any of those assassin/fighter style champions at a certain point in the game. Assassins are meant to take out a high priority target if they get in range. Adcs have certain damage reducing items with various effects (no tank stats) whereas mages get health in 3/6 items in a typical build, zhonyas having pretty decent armor and the best active in the game, potentially banshees to just walk out of their first mistake, and again peel & damage options in their kit. A mage with rylais, liandry, morello, protobelt, etc. is getting a massive chunk of health, good damage stats, and both zhonyas and seraphs give them strong defensive options (seraphs will literally give any late game mage +50% effective hp).

Because its point and click? Because if then, might as well do it on a lot of champs like, kog (or any adc by late game), syndra, yi, yasuo, cass, kassadin, etc.
Here's the counterplay to morde's ulti. Cc, slows, zhonyas (or any other stasis effects) and lastly qss.

Morde ult is op because it takes someone out of the game and forces a 1v1. His champion class and his kit just make him stronger in a 1v1 than a lot of champions (most by far). In fact, it's hard to pick someone who will be able to fight through his ult in a level 6 fight. And this isn't even considering that his trade patterns are just so damn dominant! His q does massive damage for how spammable it is, even through the wave, and his e gives him free penetration with the longest ranged non-support grab in the game. Morde is all around stacked for lane 1v1s and few people will pick up qss by the time they need it. If you can't hard counter pick Morde, you're going to be useless in lane and a non-gigafed adc will just be ulted and killed by him over and over until they're forced to buy qss. Another note, qss is not super cheap for offering very little stats. A top laner has to sacrifice his damage stats which will actually let him fight morde to get a gimmick item so he doesn't get ulted and ran down at full hp in lane. It's so shitty bc it makes Morde useless when he can't ult. It's exactly why Zed r isn't affected by qss, but without this counterplay Morde just stomps everyone.

LightswornLance1 votes

You think that morde is good in 1v1s??? Look at fiora, she literally makes the game unplayable for her lane opponent.

ChiefDovahkin1 votes

{quoted}

You think that morde is good in 1v1s??? Look at fiora, she literally makes the game unplayable for her lane opponent.

Morde's whole kit is designed to 1v1. He's one of the best in the game by far. His ult isolates you and restricts where you can dodge/run. Just because another duelist exists doesn't mean Morde isn't a good duelist.

LightswornLance1 votes

I worded that weirdly, but mordekaisers ultimate is definitely not op. Like imagine using your ultimate to 1v1 someone and losing the 1v1 thats kinda lame.

ChiefDovahkin1 votes

{quoted}

I worded that weirdly, but mordekaisers ultimate is definitely not op. Like imagine using your ultimate to 1v1 someone and losing the 1v1 thats kinda lame.

That's exactly why it steals a scaling percentage of stats and Mordekaiser is already strong in a 1v1 due to having large aoe abilities and his Q literally doing more to single targets. His R is essentially a free kill on any marksman who isn't super fed or buying qss early.

Aatrox Airlines1 votes

2, 3: Champions without mobility areperfectly playable. Morde has been an A or above tier pick since rework. Darius is fairly decent of a pick rn and, up until he got gutted, aatrox, a champ with very limited mobility, was a good pick as well.

4: People afking more probably stems from the fact that ganes are often over at 5 minutes.

5: champions with point and click abilities are a direct counter to the mobility meta youre complaining about.

6: spend 800g and be done with it

9: there is still decent build diversity.

10: i beg to differ. Toplane is the worst role.

11: early junglers are meta. That leads to the 4th paragraph.

14: true. Adc meta needs to go.

15: euther kite him out for 7 seconds (just 4.5 if you have stopwatch) or pay 1300 gold. This is the skarner/malzahar argument all over again.

Salron881 votes

you know what is funny. on every post that makes sense the downvotes come first. its like riot has a special army to shut down any post. its just when people unite and upvote it +50 that they give up so they dnt make it obviuous. almost half of these points ive talked about and been downvoted. glad you made it though. its like you speak for all of us :)

BrokenArtist1 votes

JG is completey broken in your elo like you are just bad and cant play it, you have negative winrate with twitch a cheese champ that will work lv2 95% of the time, yi ANOTHER cheese champion that wins most of 1v1s lv2 in enemy jungle, jungle is only bad in higher elo

Pika Fox1 votes

You dont think a burst mage would kill you with 3 abilities in s5 or before? You havnt played this game then, as its been that way since s1.

AfterTheFall1 votes

no....it hasnt. deathfire grasp used to exist for a reason. you used to NEED it to oneshot all-in someone.

Pika Fox1 votes

{quoted}

no....it hasnt. deathfire grasp used to exist for a reason. you used to NEED it to oneshot all-in someone.

Not really. Annie and veigar could always kill a squishy target in one rotation without it. Dfg was overkill.

The difference was back then adcs werent a primary thing in all games, and even when they started to become the primary thing enchanters were overbuffed because supports got 0 gold income, and the full damage only builds werent standardized yet for them.

Now the optimal play is full damage and having your team and your positioning compensate for your squishiness, as opposed to before when optimal play didnt exist yet and players were still learning the game.

Eedat1 votes

Lmao hell no you didn't

Zullar1 votes

Wish riot would read this.

The mobility and damage is out of control. Yet it just keeps increasing every patch. They allow reworks like Akali.

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