These PBE jungle changes won't help. They'll make things worse.

Monstermushmush··10 votes·5,716 views
1/11 PBE Update: Lunar Revel 2019 Login Theme

From the PBE patch notes: >Camp scaling >General Camps : Experience scales to 150% >>> Experience scales to 125% >Buff Camps : Experience scales to 157% >>> Experience scales to 125% >Scuttle Crab : Gold and Experience Scales to Double base value >>> Scales to 180% of base value

Making the jungle worth less gold and xp will just make junglers camp lanes more often because jungle camps are worth even less now. Why would you want to farm monsters if you could just farm champions? I don't know what the best solution is for nerfing jungle, but this isn't it.

21 Comments

IP Masquerena5 votes

Well, just shows you how smart the boards are, but not my fault people just refuse to ward.

In Diamond+, level 2 gankers like Camille and Xin barely have 50% wr, with Cam being at 49%, on the other hand, people who'd like to powerfarm to level 6 like Eve who has 51%, Kindred who although they can gank, they aren't heavy gankers but quite enjoy some farm have 52%.

And both Eve and Kindred are "so super powerful at contesting scuttler at level 2".

Point being that although jungle is a strong, it's not the level 2 ganks as people make them be, so lowering the jungle xp will do weaken the jungle. Level 2 ganks will still happen if people don't ward (if you notice in high elo, both teams ward the pixel bush at level 1, but in low elo, it's a miracle if I see someone use a ward level 1).

Tormentula6 votes

Level 2 gankers and their contesters will still always dictate the meta as long as it requires 4 jungle camps and there is importance on crab XP. Its a fact that junglers will gank more if they don't have anything to farm, or their XP is piss poor and they're forced to just gank and rubber band it afterwards to be efficient, and its even more of a fact that only the most efficient junglers will be viable, which with the delayed level 3, puts too much emphasis on those with level 2. A level 2 powerspike jungler can essentially gain a lane priority, river control for additional XP (a camille clear path can be red - > same quadrant side crab - > mid lane - > other crab - > blue), and deny XP to the other jungler that can't contest while also denying invade opportunities or gank pressure due to river and camille getting too much priority and information.

The only way to remove level 2 emphasis, would be to make it so river isnt an XP cut-off (revert crabs), and revert the XP gains for level 3 back to 3 camps (even if they each take twice as long to take, it will enable junglers to adapt or hide in specific quadrants rather than being forced to look for a 4th camp after doing a quadrant and losing crab)

Even nerfing camille/xin isn't the answer as you'd just see a surge of other level 2 replacements, namely twitch, warwick, shaco, and more, stuff currently being held back by their playstyles just being outclassed by the meta picks right now.

For non-level 2 gankers to be viable, they have to have really good clears and clearing options (such as early krugs and raptors as needed) and have a massive payoff for giving up the early pressure, ex Elise cannot level 2 gank but once she's 3 she can be online everywhere relentlessly, and evelynn can be detrimental to the early game but if she plays it out safe, she can become a monster and solo carry herself.

{quoted}

Well, just shows you how smart the boards are, but not my fault people just refuse to ward.

In Diamond+, level 2 gankers like Camille and Xin barely have 50% wr, with Cam being at 49%, on the other hand, people who'd like to powerfarm to level 6 like Eve who has 51%, Kindred who although they can gank, they aren't heavy gankers but quite enjoy some farm have 52%.

?

Camille has triple evelynn's pickrate, and xin zhao has been strong for just as long with the same pickrate. Kindred has 52% winrate because their 5% sample size are mostly experienced players rather than meta slaves spamming camille even if they don't know how to play her.

IP Masquerena1 votes

You can still get level 3 off of 3 camps:

Red -> Krugs -> Any

So it's not mandatory to get 4 camps unless you skip krugs.

Now, I don't know about your all, but in mine, in the last 3 days I've seen 1 single ally jungler that started red, everyone else, including 3 Lee Sin started blue and of course, all got outjungled.

As for Camille has 3 times Eve's play rate, yes, general play rate she does have more, but her jg play rate is 10% at 48.2% win rate while Eve is at 51.6% winrate. Are you going to tell me that that almost 4% wr difference is just because of the pickrate? It's a bit much to be just that.

Now, I won't deny that her level 2 is strong, but as I said, higher elos do ward the pixel bushes, which makes it that if she's seen by one ward, the other jungler will take the opposite side scuttler or just invade her raptors, as the pixel bush ward would've expired by that time while the new wards aren't charged yet.

General Matty1 votes

{quoted}

The only way to remove level 2 emphasis, would be to make it so river isnt an XP cut-off (revert crabs), and revert the XP gains for level 3 back to 3 camps (even if they each take twice as long to take, it will enable junglers to adapt or hide in specific quadrants rather than being forced to look for a 4th camp after doing a quadrant and losing crab)

crab change was garbage anyways.

Queš3 votes

Good,jungle shouldnt be able to have the most impact early game and scale like mofos(haha me same exp me red smite me good player hehe)

Warlord Rhinark3 votes

{quoted}

Good,jungle shouldnt be able to have the most impact early game and scale like mofos(haha me same exp me red smite me good player hehe)

The problem here is that this change will only enforce Junglers to have even more impact early game, since they'll be ganking a lot more, since Jungle camps are worth less.

Monstermushmush1 votes

{quoted}

Good,jungle shouldnt be able to have the most impact early game and scale like mofos(haha me same exp me red smite me good player hehe)

Read the post.

14daysuspensionk2 votes

Stopppp nerfing meee jungle :(

GentlemanTrap1 votes

Déjà vu.

Anime Fizz1 votes

Of course its gonna help.

It means that if they dont snowball with their broken early game they are actually going to fall off, instead of just being godlike at all stages of the game.

Much needed nerfs.

Dr Dog3 votes

they arent "broken early game" if you use the free wards riot gave us and dont mindlessly shove early on against early game jgers

Anime Fizz3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xazlWjMA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-01-15T16:00:21.722+0000)

they arent "broken early game" if you use the free wards riot gave us and dont mindlessly shove early on against early game jgers

"shove early"

You are aware junglers can be in your lane at lvl 2 with a red buff as soon as you touch the first minion wave of the game right? You dont even have time to shove or do anything really and you can already be ganked by a overleveld jungler.

You're basically asking laners to afk under tower and concede lane until the junglers show on the map, sounds fair and balanced.

Dr Dog1 votes

or you could play safe when theres a jger notorious for level two ganks? maybe play some of the role and actually get familiar with ganking paths and you'd learn how easy it is to avoid those oh so powerful level two ganks, such as if your top or mid and the enemys red is botside your probably gonna get ganked top or mid so ward and play a bit safe or ask your own jger to path near your lane for a countergank if they have a better level 2 than the enemy if you actually play smart its not hard to avoid these things, dont blame the role you know nothing about for your own lack of game knowledge

Anime Fizz2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xazlWjMA,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-15T16:16:04.781+0000)

or you could play safe when theres a jger notorious for level two ganks? maybe play some of the role and actually get familiar with ganking paths and you'd learn how easy it is to avoid those oh so powerful level two ganks, such as if your top or mid and the enemys red is botside your probably gonna get ganked top or mid so ward and play a bit safe or ask your own jger to path near your lane for a countergank if they have a better level 2 than the enemy if you actually play smart its not hard to avoid these things, dont blame the role you know nothing about for your own lack of game knowledge

Maybe you should play top lane and try doing your so good advice of "just play safe" and completely give up lane priority for free.

Against tons of matchups you cant simply "just dont go for the creep wave lvl 1 LUL" or you'll start losing the lane, without even a jungler doing anything.

Dr Dog1 votes

ive played top its really not hard to just last hit the first wave and let yourself get pushed in a bit and throw a ward into tri, its that simple

wildfox9T2 votes

you're right...is it too hard to understand that putting yourself 1 lvl behind can lose your lane?

or also that even if we forget about all the dewarding tools we stilll can't have all bushes warded 24/7

or that playing safe means losing a lot of CS (so gold),XP (getting even more behind),giving up trades (your opponent is free to play aggressive while you can't fight back),and don't forget about the tower plating which also give gold

but it's ok,laners are supposed to be the junglers bitches right? you can't have fun playing your lane...

Lucy Pyre1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xazlWjMA,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-01-15T16:02:50.603+0000)

"shove early"

You are aware junglers can be in your lane at lvl 2 with a red buff as soon as you touch the first minion wave of the game right? You dont even have time to shove or do anything really and you can already be ganked by a overleveld jungler.

You're basically asking laners to afk under tower and concede lane until the junglers show on the map, sounds fair and balanced.

I find the "overleveled jungler" thing very funny. The only reason that junglers are level 2 when the minion waves first crash is because one camp/buff gives level 2; and this is required for most champs in order to be able to start clearing their jungle efficiently, which is why the vast majority of junglers start at their leashed buff. However, unless a jungler manages to shut down the enemy jungler extremely hard early game and either get tons of ganks off to leach XP from minions, or simply steal camps and have an XP lead that way, solo laners will generally always hit level 5-6 beforehand. This can make a level 5 gank against a level 6 laner potentially disastrous depending on which champion it is (think: Darius). Jungle certainly has a lot of influence on the game and laners, however you're making it seem far greater than the actuality.

Monstermushmush2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xazlWjMA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-01-15T15:56:07.093+0000)

Of course its gonna help.

It means that if they dont snowball with their broken early game they are actually going to fall off, instead of just being godlike at all stages of the game.

Much needed nerfs.

Oh my goodness... READ THE POST. [zombie-brand-mindblown]

A Kniƒe Cat1 votes

Oh boy

Now instead of vertical jungling being what goes down in most games, it's gonna be what goes down in ALL games

Nobody will want to risk losing scuttle exp in a fight

Hügö1 votes

It's epic to be allways 2 levels behind i wonder how far I can fall behind with this change? 5 levels maybe?

Malix Farwin1 votes

Well for starters they should of increased camps respawn timers then scaled gold/exp based on that.

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