The boards summed up in one post so you don't have to go read all of them

Barkley·Aug 5, 2019·63 votes·15,897 views

Riot has become EA games, only cares about cash grab and how much money they can squeeze out of their dying, obsolete game.

They're already moving on to TFT and their new CS:GO clone.

The only thing League is to them anymore is a source of revenue for their future projects. They will continue to nerf/buff whatever they want regardless of player feedback. Eventually everyone gets sick of it and leaves and guess what? Nobody cares.

Because all the little sheep kids will be lining up around the block to buy new Little Legends and TFT skins and everyone will be jumping for joy to play the new CS:GO ripoff when it comes out -- Forgetting completely the fact that Riot took its LOL playerbase and just took a big, steaming shit on it over the past year or 3.

At the end of the day, Riot is a business. Businesses need to make money. LOL is dying, they know it, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it -- so they're planning for the future with things like TFT and CS:GO Legends or whatever they end up calling it. Its actually quite smart, from a business perspective.

Done. All of your complaints, all of your ramblings and essays and dissertations summed up in one easy to read paragraph.

You're welcome.

110 Comments

Caitlyn FTWAug 5, 201917 votes

[deleted]

BarkleyAug 5, 201924 votes

No.

Lol.

Power creep is -A- problem in league of legends.

Even if someone somehow found a way to solve this issue, it doesn't change the fact that Riot is literally just doing whatever the fuck they want, damn the community feedback (if they even READ community feedback anymore)

How long are we gonna have item RNG in TFT even though LITERALLY EVERYONE hates it?
I bet they remove TT even though LITERALLY NOBODY wants it removed.
What about the pointless buffs? Pointless nerfs? Pointless Re-works?
Removal of legacy cursor ---- WHO ASKED FOR THIS? The file is probably 100k, what the fuck does it matter???
How long is smurfing gonna be an issue before we look into it and realize it ruins competitive value?
How long have we had this absolute garbage legacy client, and they're JUST NOW -TALKING- about fixing it. See the fix in another 5 years.

Power creep is not -THE- problem with league of legends. Riot Games is -THE- problem with League of Legends. They've lost their way.

CrazyMonkeyCZAug 5, 20194 votes

Turned yourself into thread lol

Why shouldn't they remove TT? Smurfing isn't problem(git gud or play normals). Legacy cursor wasn't used, but oh, now we all use it. Game is getting better compared to S6, 7, 8. They lost their way, let me guess, you know the way, right?

(you missed one in op, Riot defenders)

BarkleyAug 5, 201915 votes

Oh hey look, one of about 100 people who thinks the game is in a good state right now.

Explain to us how this game is in a better state right now than it was in idk.... S4, S5? S3? Explain to us how this game hasn't been steadily getting worse and worse since then.

You had the stones to come in here and start barking like you're about something -- be about it. Lets hear some actual reasons. Lets put down some tangible discussion points, and discuss.

Or did you just swing by to talk some shit and then disappear?

CrazyMonkeyCZAug 5, 20197 votes

Oh hey look, one of about 100 people who thinks the game is in a good state right now.

Oh yeah, you mean the vocal minority? That's the whole community, right? Not millions of silent players? Nope, only us and reddit 👌

Explain to us how this game is in a better state right now than it was in idk.... S4, S5? S3?

Well, I said S6, 7, 8. But when we are at it. S5 jugg update was worse than current state. In S5 cinderhulk was already op and whole S5 was already close to tank meta. S3 assassin meta was worse, S3 BC meta was worse than current state, S3 Warmogs meta was worse.

We can go further if you want, we can go to exact patches/matchups/strats in each season to show how beautiful and good other seasons were with their op picks/items etc...

But hey, nostalgia is my drug as well, so don't worry, I get you.

(hint - it all comes down to opinion)

Also, the current boring state in any serious elo is caused by low elo scrubs crying like little birds for food(nerfs) to mama bird(Riot) and yeah, everything sucks to the point of Azir/Corki being the best picks for mid... The vocal minority...

No idea why Riot even react and act like it is what community wants... They should ignore all input from reddit and boards and focus on stats and consider possible feedback from highest elos/coaches/analysts.

BarkleyAug 5, 201912 votes

So the game should be centered/balanced around less than 1% of its playerbase.... got it.

CrazyMonkeyCZAug 5, 20196 votes

Yes? Why should they balance game about skill around players that can't play the game? Unfurtunetely, they still give a fuck about masters below...

JimTheSnailAug 5, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Yes? Why should they balance game about skill around players that can't play the game? Unfurtunetely, they still give a fuck about masters below...

If they did anything like that it would destroy there game. Any ideas like the one you have rn is what league is avoiding. Any game dev, politician, or businessman would agree. You need to balance your patches for all skill levels or you will not only lose money but lose supporters.

JamareeAug 5, 20195 votes

{quoted}

So the game should be centered/balanced around less than 1% of its playerbase.... got it.

Tbf, when 99% suck, you should and the times it has been balanced around those 99%, champions have been neutered into non viability.

BarkleyAug 5, 201910 votes

90% of buffs/nerfs that happen nowadays are centered around pro play and top level streamers. And I don't think I need to say much more than that, tbh -- The results are obvious.

You're just wrong, and honestly its elitists like you that drive players away from this game.

JamareeAug 5, 20198 votes

{quoted}

90% of buffs/nerfs that happen nowadays are centered around pro play and top level streamers. And I don't think I need to say much more than that, tbh -- The results are obvious.

You're just wrong, and honestly its elitists like you that drive players away from this game.

Again, when most players idea of balance is "This thing I itemized poorly against, played against poorly against, and generally don't know how to fight beat me, and thus needs nerfs." I think it is fair that their ideas shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Players should strive to improve and get better, but most players here don't want to even make an attempt, they lose and want to be blame balance, it is never their own fault so yes, they should be ignored if they tend to take that stance.

It isn't an elitist mindset, it is a game shouldn't be made worst for the bad players because they aren't willing to get better, mindset.

BarkleyAug 5, 20194 votes

Ok lets put this in a different context...

Lets say you're the designer for a new software application. It'll be used by businesses and personal use. Businesses will account for about 10% of overall use. Personal use will account for about 90% of overall use.

You want to make money on this app. You want people to use it, to buy it, to pay for it, and to recommend it to their friends.

When feedback starts coming in about your app -- things to fix, things that could be better, things that people generally want to see implemented in this application that would make them more likely to use it, more likely to recommend it to their friends, and more likely to pay for it -- do you listen to the 10% of users, or the 90% of users?

If you answer 10%, I hope you never get into software design -- because you will fail at it.

Now obviously you can't ignore the 10% -- because that's likely a higher package at a higher price point for business. So that feedback is important too. But the brunt of your profit is going to come from the 90% of users.

If you make them unhappy, that 10% isn't going to keep your application afloat, and you will crash and burn.

JamareeAug 5, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Ok lets put this in a different context...

Lets say you're the designer for a new software application. It'll be used by businesses and personal use. Businesses will account for about 10% of overall use. Personal use will account for about 90% of overall use.

You want to make money on this app. You want people to use it, to buy it, to pay for it, and to recommend it to their friends.

When feedback starts coming in about your app -- things to fix, things that could be better, things that people generally want to see implemented in this application that would make them more likely to use it, more likely to recommend it to their friends, and more likely to pay for it -- do you listen to the 10% of users, or the 90% of users?

If you answer 10%, I hope you never get into software design -- because you will fail at it.

You can't compare software to video games, of course you design to build around the most people and making them happy.

If you take that stance with video games, all you do is make things worst in the long time, sure in the short term, people are more happy, but the people at the top end you are jilting get pissed, and leave and thus has less notice to your own video game because they don't have anything at the top to watch.

That is what is happening with Street Fighter 5 right now, functions and options in the game have been made purposely easier and simplier for the sake of trying to draw in casuals and the game has suffered from it, the numbers of retention between Street Fighter 5 are down compared to 4 with plenty of plays going disenfranchised with it and some even going back to play 4.

BarkleyAug 5, 20196 votes

{quoted}

You can't compare software to video games,

..... I'm sorry..... what?

I just...

What?

JamareeAug 5, 20193 votes

{quoted}

..... I'm sorry..... what?

I just...

What?

You can't compare them, they are nothing alike. Everything from the development to the execution is different.

Let's go back to that video game example again in fact, let's say you make a video game character that for new players, is incredibly fun, easy, and overpowered, you give them a button that literally says I just win, for the lower dredges of a video game, they love it, they can now beat their friends who have spent hours or days practicing because of said button, the people at the higher end have spent so much time practicing or getting good to actually play said game, and they of course hate, they don't bother going to tournaments anymore, they don't bother supporting it, they go to other games. Eventually, said casuals leave because they are casuals and their interest are fickle and the people at the top aren't coming back because the character is still there and thus your game suffers.

90% of the players here are casuals, are bad, aren't willing to improve so if you did what they say, they would be happy until they got bored and left and the 10% that are good and are set in actually getting good would leave.

BarkleyAug 5, 20195 votes

I'm still really stuck on the fact that you think software and video games are different design processes and different entities all together. They're remarkably similar.

But we'll move past that and I'll play along.

The fact of the matter is that high elo league players are less than 1% of the population.

Without the other 99% you don't matter. There's no game for you to play. Riot closes its doors and League of Legends goes the way of the dodo.

Your elitist stance is absolutely self-destructive.

And your "I win button" is an absolutely ridiculous example, nothing in League is like that, and so its absolute nonsense to even try to use as a talking point. No developer in their right mind implements something like this and gets away with it. Riot is fucking stupid, but they're not THAT stupid. I don't think anyone's THAT stupid -- and if they are, you probably don't see their games for sale anywhere because they just keeled over and died after about a month of availability.

No, we're talking more about things like .02% play rate champs getting nerfed because some top-level streamer or pro happened to find some kind of exploit with them that literally only works at a very, very high skill level, or with coordinated team play.

The result is an absolutely gutted champion that now NOBODY plays, all because some .01% player did something nobody else is doing, and 90% of the playerbase wouldn't even be able to do if they wanted to.

But now 100% of people can't play that champion. Ah! Good example right now -- Tristana. In normal play, this champion is basically fine, save for some cancer in her buffer jump mechanic -- but that's been around forever and people have dealt with it. Fine. Whatever.

But now that its being spammed by top level players and pro play, it'll get nerfed into the gutter and then literally nobody will play Tristana -- even though its not the champion that's the problem -- its the pro player/top level players abusing a small, minuscule aspect of her kit that NOBODY else is going to pull off. I've personally seen people playing trist into just about anything now "Because pros did it" and they get absolutely shat on. absolutely train wrecked. Trist is not OP. Top-level performers abusing a small aspect of Tristana is what's OP.

But that won't matter -- Riot will nerf her into the ground because of it, and Tristana will be the least played ADC for the next 6 months afterward -- all because some pro player did one thing that worked in one small circumstance, and is in no way indicative of the champion's overall performance.

These are the types of changes that high elo players want. These niche things that don't matter anywhere else but in the .01%. And it absolutely fucks everyone else.

And if Riot continues to make changes like this (I'm speculating, but I'm speculating from a good bit of experience, and I'm fairly sure I'm gonna be right about Tristana nerfs) they will continue to lose the 99%.

John WestlinAug 5, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Again, when most players idea of balance is "This thing I itemized poorly against, played against poorly against, and generally don't know how to fight beat me, and thus needs nerfs." I think it is fair that their ideas shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Players should strive to improve and get better, but most players here don't want to even make an attempt, they lose and want to be blame balance, it is never their own fault so yes, they should be ignored if they tend to take that stance.

It isn't an elitist mindset, it is a game shouldn't be made worst for the bad players because they aren't willing to get better, mindset.

Unfortunately, even diamond players and above are criticizing the game in terms of balance. So your claims are invalid.

JamareeAug 5, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=John Westlin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xOkudMz8,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000001000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-05T19:33:10.388+0000)

Unfortunately, even diamond players and above are criticizing the game in terms of balance. So your claims are invalid.

Indeed, hence why I think we should balance around the challenger and master level

John WestlinAug 5, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Indeed, hence why I think we should balance around the challenger and master level

Damage meta makes tank useless. And btw, Riot balance team is ignorant.

JamareeAug 6, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=John Westlin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xOkudMz8,comment-id=000100000001000000000000000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-05T21:33:40.140+0000)

Damage meta makes tank useless. And btw, Riot balance team is ignorant.

So are the forums but hey

Pika FoxAug 5, 20193 votes

{quoted}

So the game should be centered/balanced around less than 1% of its playerbase.... got it.

Yes, balance SHOULD be centered around the top skilled players primarily. Players that are less skilled get better over time, and top play skill moves down as players watch and learn.

A bronze today would run circles around hotshotgg 8 years ago

inuitmailmanAug 5, 20193 votes

{quoted}

No.

Lol.

Power creep is -A- problem in league of legends.

Even if someone somehow found a way to solve this issue, it doesn't change the fact that Riot is literally just doing whatever the fuck they want, damn the community feedback (if they even READ community feedback anymore)

How long are we gonna have item RNG in TFT even though LITERALLY EVERYONE hates it?

I bet they remove TT even though LITERALLY NOBODY wants it removed.

What about the pointless buffs? Pointless nerfs? Pointless Re-works?

Removal of legacy cursor ---- WHO ASKED FOR THIS? The file is probably 100k, what the fuck does it matter???

How long is smurfing gonna be an issue before we look into it and realize it ruins competitive value?

How long have we had this absolute garbage legacy client, and they're JUST NOW -TALKING- about fixing it. See the fix in another 5 years.

Power creep is not -THE- problem with league of legends. Riot Games is -THE- problem with League of Legends. They've lost their way.

Idk why this is downvoted so much. Even if you don’t agree with this. He at least fleshed out his opinion unlike most of the comments on the boards:/

PermaBan FizzAug 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No.

Lol.

Power creep is -A- problem in league of legends.

Even if someone somehow found a way to solve this issue, it doesn't change the fact that Riot is literally just doing whatever the fuck they want, damn the community feedback (if they even READ community feedback anymore)

How long are we gonna have item RNG in TFT even though LITERALLY EVERYONE hates it?

I bet they remove TT even though LITERALLY NOBODY wants it removed.

What about the pointless buffs? Pointless nerfs? Pointless Re-works?

Removal of legacy cursor ---- WHO ASKED FOR THIS? The file is probably 100k, what the fuck does it matter???

How long is smurfing gonna be an issue before we look into it and realize it ruins competitive value?

How long have we had this absolute garbage legacy client, and they're JUST NOW -TALKING- about fixing it. See the fix in another 5 years.

Power creep is not -THE- problem with league of legends. Riot Games is -THE- problem with League of Legends. They've lost their way.

i want tt removed

Garen is adoptedAug 6, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yasashi Kokoro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xOkudMz8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-05T17:29:26.068+0000)

#Power creep is the problem with League of Legends

agree, this game would be much more enjoyable without that ridiculous one shot meta.

Pika FoxAug 5, 201914 votes

This is lies. Its too well written to be made by someone on the boards, and theres not enough "yasuo op, i keep spamming all my skillshots at the windwall and he doesnt die aaaaa"

BarkleyAug 5, 201923 votes

Shit I knew I forgot something.

Yasuo OP.

ŚhunpoAug 6, 20192 votes

Yasuo IS OP.

Teh SongAug 5, 20199 votes

What's this about a CS:GO clone? I heard something about a fighting game, but I have no idea what you're on about.

BarkleyAug 5, 20196 votes

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=riot+games+cs%3Ago

A google search for you. Mostly rumors.

I also heard something about a fighting game.

Point is, they're on to bigger, brighter projects.

JuiceBoxPAug 5, 20198 votes

cs:go meaning this game is turning into an arcade deathmatch where everyone pops instantly by anything, similar to fps shooters.

BarkleyAug 5, 20192 votes

Not where I was going with it, but valid nonetheless. Wp.

DisembarkAug 5, 20198 votes

Thank god. Game has been dying for 6 years according to boards. See you in 5 years.

BarkleyAug 5, 20197 votes

...... it has been. lol.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=league%20of%20legends

Edit: Idk sometimes that link works and sometimes it doesn't -- anyway, just go to google trends, set it to 5 years, worldwide, and search "League of Legends"

There's been a steady downward trajectory.

DisembarkAug 5, 20197 votes

Yeah, because less people googling league of legends means the game Is dying. Or maybe, just maybe, when a game is this popular people don’t need to google it.

Ranked players/twitch viewership has been fine and only increased from S6 to end of S8. Only dropping now with the release of TFT.

But thank god we have big brained analysts on the boards telling it to us like it is using google trends. Bravo dude.

BarkleyAug 5, 20198 votes

You're right, google searches aren't a valuable metric used by multi-billion dollar corporations around the world to project popularity or relevancy.

Search results and search queries aren't used worldwide as a measurement for anything, and aren't in and of themselves a billion dollar industry.

Ya got me. U rite. I, too, am glad we have big brained people on the boards who know more about data analysis than everyone else, even though publicly traded fortune 500 companies who make more money in an hour than you do in a lifetime would disagree.

And jeez, what business did I have citing a small, homegrown startup like Google, anyway. What was I thinking.

DisembarkAug 5, 20195 votes

“Fortune 500 companies”, ah, stock companies who try and make a quick profit based on current rise in popularity. Google metrics show if something is bubbling in popularity, not how popular it is.

Like if you look at Donald Trumps graph, it shows that it spiked at 100 in 2016 and fell off a cliff. Guess no one is talking about Trump anymore and everyone stopped paying attention to him, completely irrelevant xd. Or maybe it’s because that’s the time when people didn’t know anything about him and had to google him. But hey, let’s not use too much logic around here!

The fact that you don’t even know what google trends are indicative of and can only appeal to authority as an “argument” goes to show how clueless you are. Pathetic

BarkleyAug 5, 20195 votes

Trump? Really?

Or maybe nobody's googling him because we get him shoved down our throats every moment of every day by every media outlet known to man, so there's no need to google him. Anything you'd ever need to know is on the front of every newspaper everywhere, on every channel, on every website, on every social media outlet, all day every day because for some reason this country is absolutely obsessed with tracking and reporting his every move, every moment of every day.

No need to google trump. You can't even avoid Trump if you wanted to -- and I do.

Now, since we don't wanna "toss too much logic" around here -- how many times a day do you think people google "{Champion name} guide" or "{Champion Name} builds" or things of that nature?

Often. Probably at the beginning of 50%+ of literally every game of league of legends that's ever played. I say 50% because I'm trying to account for the people who have downloaded things like blitz, overwolf, etc that do this for them automagically.

But not everyone has those apps. Still a ton of people who google search builds at the beginning of every game. So google is still getting hit for league of legends related queries.

Not to mention people searching for streamers, talking points, LCS stats, and whatever else league-related. Most of these queries start with "League of Legends streamer" or "League of legends guide" or "League of legends forums" or what have you.

And the trend of THAT happening has gone down over the past 5 years. Which is indicative of a decrease in popularity overall.

Also, if we want to talk about "pathetic," lets talk about bolstering an argument with an outright and unprovoked character attack...

DisembarkAug 5, 20193 votes

[deleted]

BarkleyAug 5, 20194 votes

If there was a huge influx of new players googling league of legends things, wouldn't the trend go up? The trend would only go down if we WEREN'T getting new players, and thus the game becoming less and less popular... People who have been playing this game for years wouldn't have to google much. They might... but maybe not. That might cause a downward trend -- or a stable trend more likely. People who don't play the game at all anymore DEFINITELY aren't googling anything. That would DEFINITELY cause a downward trend.

New players coming to play the game for the first time because its popular? Well... shit they'd google everything. That would cause an upward trend...

But there's no upward trend... There's not even a stable trend. Its an obvious downward trend.

You're contradicting yourself. And getting angry about it.

DisembarkAug 5, 20191 votes

[deleted]

BarkleyAug 5, 20193 votes

Actually, if a game is at a stable popularity and not losing popularity, the trend will be stable -- because that's how trends work. That's literally the definition of a trend.

More popular = upward Less popular = downward Nothings changing = stable.

If you pulled out a textbook and looked up the definition of a trend, that's what you'd find.

You're not even trying to argue anymore, you're just being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. You've got nothing left to say on the matter because you're wrong, and so the only thing you've got left in your arsenal is name-calling and personal attacks.

I get the feeling you spend a lot of time banned from the boards...

TehRamboCowAug 6, 20192 votes

Actually, if you gain a lot of popularity, and then people searching you up declines, that doesn't mean you game is less popular. It depends on your retention.

Read this again: If I gain 50 players, then I have "50 new players" and have a huge spike in "popularity". If I lose 4 players next month, and gain 8, I will have a "dip in popularity" aka a downward trend. Yet I still have 54 players, more than I had before.

I would say you're being this dense on purpose but I really think you're that stupid.

BarkleyAug 6, 20191 votes

Lol this guy logged into a different account to keep this up because his other account got the big B. I wonder how many accounts you’ve had perma’d?

Riot’s super effective disciplinary system on display here.

TehRamboCowAug 6, 20191 votes

[deleted]

TehRamboCowAug 7, 20191 votes

Long post to just say that you know I’m right.

Regardless, there was never any discussion being had. I was telling you the things you were wrong about, you weren't not even responding to anything I said and just reiterating your “point” over and over again because that makes you right.

It's a matter of simple ass logic and you’re too dense to understand it. There is no discussion, I am just telling you things you should know, while you keep blabbering about nonsense.

GigglesOAug 5, 20192 votes

Its funny its about the same playerbase as before their peak,

They need to lower damage, its driving away players.

hoganftwAug 5, 20197 votes

They're milking a dying game until it is legitimately dead

3TWarriorAug 5, 20192 votes

tencent in a nutshell and when they think that a game has lost even the value to keep its servers up (even if it's not much) they kill it, despite people probably still paying money for the game