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Riot can you please take a look at Zed???

WolfChases··22 votes·2,228 views

Honestly he is beyond broken atm. I don't really give a damn about his skill shoots, since they are too easy to land comparing to other skill shoots in the game. Let me mention, I am not a kid who got annihilated by a good Zed player, I AM A ZED PLAYER...or at least..........I WAS a Zed player until he became FOTM. If I can remember well, I had around 600-700 Zed games last season and just a few of them since the start of the season 5. That champion is such unfair. Why the hell is Zed allowed to have stronger AAs han Talon for example? Why is Zed allowed to have almost as good weave clear as Xerath? Why is Zed allowed to have such a safe laning phase even if he CAN poke from the distance either with his Q or Q in combination with W and E? Why the hell is Zed allowed to have a passive that empower his ALREADY strong AAs against damn minions? Why? Why are Zed players allowed to lasthit with close to no effort even if they are pushed under the turret? Is there a single reason that a SINGLE champion should determine the build order for every single mage who's fighting against him? What if I am playing Orianna and I want to improve my resources with more mana regeneration but Zed's constant poke and all ins doesn't let me to so I am forced to build Seekers/Zhonyas while Zed doesn't give a damn about his resources?Why do I have to optimise my build against Zed while Zed rushes his core as fast as he can without even thinking about who is he fighting against?

  • Why don't you simply remove his passive against minions? So that bad Zed can't get fed by lasthiting if they can't score a kill.
  • Why don't you reduce the AD scalings on his E against minions? So Zed can't weaveclear as AOE mage.
  • What the hell is the damn reason why Zed should have infinite range on the second cast of his ultimate? So he is unpunished when he made a mistake.

I am really pissed seeing all those kids claiming how Zed is hardest champion in league. HA-HA well, maybe a donkey would believe in that nonsnse but not me, not a guy who probably plays Zed much much better than all those ''Bjerg wannabes''. Currently Zed is obnoxiously OP that you can't even say ''But get the QSS''..QSS MY .!. Zed can easily rape enemy ADC right after 6 and don't you tell me that as an ADC I should rush QSS that early??? If I am building QSS to protect my ass from a Zed I want to build it as my 4th item not as my damn 2nd Item, and until than, zed will be fed to the point when he doesn't even need his ultimate to kill me.

47 Comments

ChargeItDownMid7 votes

[deleted]

WolfChases6 votes

Well I am not in bronze or silver :D I am lurking around Gold/Plat elo so yes, Zed is A problem...There Is a problem when a fed Zed can straight 1v1 an equally fed Thrundle........

Saianna6 votes

I enjoy playing Zed. Why? Because even if i suck hard with him i still get the kills.. I agree that he should recieve some nerfs.

TomA3X5 votes

I've downvoted so many anti Zed posts, but you've actually suggested some reasonable ideas. The Passive against minions one is something I've wanted for a while. (Would be good to leave it on monsters though, I like my Zed jungle)

WolfChases2 votes

Yup...remove his passive against minions and cut in half his E scalings against minions so he cant clear so good. Look at other assassins, every single one of them has weak lanning phase except Zed. Talon's AA is similar to ADCs AA, his spells can clear but they cost a lot of mana, Akali's E deals close to no damage since it can't trigger Q anymore, Katarina needs some AP in order to clear with spells etc..only Damn zed can lasthit when minion is at 50% HP :D :D :D

TomA3X2 votes

Yup, if you're playing as Zed, last hitting isn't a thing, and that's stupid.

deadlychuck2 votes

i remember the first game i ever played as zed, i managed to get every creep for the first 10 minutes of the game (excluding the ones that died while i had gone back or roamed). Though i can more or less do that on most champions, the difference was that i wasn't even trying to get perfect CS, i just did innately.

TomA3X2 votes

Its true, it is too easy. However, when you look at other assassins, Kata, Ahri, they can waveclear very efficiently. For Zed to do it burns his entire combo. I'm not sure whether reducing by 50% to minions on his E would hurt more than we intend, because he needs to have that clear later game. Fully back the removal of last hit passive though.

Rustling Bush4 votes

"WAS a Zed player until he became FOTM"

just a hipster guys, nothing to see here move along

WolfChases4 votes

Exactly. I don't want to play something that's obnoxiously strong and unfair. I was playing Zed before the QOL buff and before the item 3174 nerf so back than it was actually fair and you needed some skills to play Zed...Now? LOOOOOOLOLOLO...Just look at one of my ADC games when I have played Caitlyn (I think my score was 9-6-x idk, I had almost full build) Zed did +- 1980 damage to me in 3.1 seconds while I had 1350 HP and there was not his AA damage included when I rad the death recap so that was straight 1 SHOOT from his kit. In one single combo without AA he did lot more damage than I have HP.

IcyPepper8 votes

well to be fair you were the adc. Assassins are supposed to 100-0 adc's, that's their job.

And it's your tank/support's job to protect you (and yours to position), especially in teamfights.

But currently he is a bit strong... :/

Saianna2 votes

That's true, mate. But considering Zed just killed him with abilities only, then well.. Don't you think it's unfair? Leaves no counterplay for ADC. You just get hit and wait till your mark explodes along with your head..

IcyPepper2 votes

I'll be honest here, his ult is kinda bs. Assassins going invisible has counterplay (think Akali's weakness being a pink ward...), but becoming untargetable and free to use all your skills is kinda... eh.

Killing him with casts alone is typical for an assassin, but they should scale with AP to do that (hence ability power). Zed... I dunno, just seems too safe. At least most adc's can be screwed by lack of positioning and support, but...

Saianna1 votes

I do agree that assassins kill mostly with spells, but he can cast his abilities just once per his R and still gets the kill. While Champions like Akali have to R-Q-W-R to kill, more spells, longer time, more counetrplay

IcyPepper1 votes

maybe if his mark dealt DoT instead of outright burst, give you a chance.

Saianna1 votes

No.. i don't think it'd be ok change... He can use it once per minute.

His R is fine, but passive, Q & E are things that should be slightly nerfed i think

WolfChases1 votes

Yes, I agree that Assassin's job is to 100-0 adc, but I do not agree that assassin should be able to kill an equally fed ADC only with his abilities without a single AA in 3 damn seconds with close to no effort dealing 30-40% more damage than ADC's current HP in that phase of the game. Actually, to be honest, he killed me in less than 3 seconds considering that he used only his abilities and recasted his ultimate leaving me to explode right after, so let's say that Zed needs less than 2 seconds for R > E > Q combo and that seems unfair because I really, really had no time to react even if I used my summoner heal which obviously didn't helped me. :)

TomA3X1 votes

Says he is not a kid who got annihilated by a zed.

Is in fact a kid who got annihilated by a zed.

D1rtFarmer1 votes

which is all too easy to do... kid or no kid.. which is why You're here.. defending your champion... hm no integrity... whos the kid?

TomA3X1 votes

I was quoting him there. Yeah, I'm defending a champion which I play from time to time, and is going to be ruined if people don't stop unnecessarily whining. Surely defending something / someone, sticking to my principles shows integrity, not lack of? Do you even know what integrity means?

D1rtFarmer1 votes

no, sticking to your champ shows you can be stubborn, that is not a display of integrity. integrity would be, acknowledging the Truth, and taking responsibility for your own actions n so on. so yes you did come to defend zed. and with integrity you should be acknowledging his obvious strengths. however i can defend rapists... does that make me have integrity? because i can find a stand point? NO if you acknowledged theyre rapists and said sure they're bad people but, does that mean i cant be friends with them...That is integrity, truth spoken and a decision has been made. the fact that zed is complained about so often and elaborately is the integrity of the argument.. YOU sir should acknowledge the facts about zed, rather than being stubborn/irrational in how you feel.

D1rtFarmer3 votes

Sadly.. Riot wont comment in here.. This Thread Makes Sense. If you look around they make their best attempt to avoid Zed conversations.

Phrite2 votes

Zed's been FotM basically since Pre-season 3. Only thing that's changed is whether you wind up seeing him jungle, top, or mid.

Saianna2 votes

not really.. He got "famous" after mana & athene nerfs. Before that it was much harder for Zed to be successful with small amount of skills.

WolfChases2 votes

Exactly. I remember when I played Zed against ex item 3174 mages. It was really hard to lane against Xerath , Ziggs , Ahri , etc, those matchups were considered a skill matchups, now, when I am forced to play high mana cost mages and I am forced to rush item 3191 against Zed EVEN...EVEN if Zed doesn't even cares about +50 armor since he will rush damn item 3134 to ignore that amount of armor.

There is no way to counter Zed atm instead of going Swain mid and some tanky CC top so Zed can't switch and go top.

  • Rushing item 3191 against Zed would be fair if any mage can actually force Zed to rush item 3155 but that's not the case cuz mages will ran out of mana without mana items.

  • Countering Zed with item 3140 is plain stupid because that item is not cheap and it also puts ADC back in terms of damage which he needs. If you rush item 3140 early so asshole cant kill you can determine the outcome of your lanning phase if Enemy ADC doesn't have to rush deff items. As ADC I dont really want to take item 3140 early and be forced to fight against enemy ADC with 2 AD items.

Saianna1 votes

Yup i agree :)

LoRdJeSuS69694202 votes

You should itemize against Zed because he is an assassin designed to focus targets like yourself? I don't see what the problem is. You don't HAVE to itemize against zed either--you can still win lane against a zed without going zhonyas first, but it's riskier. He also is taking a greater risk by not building, say, a hexdrinker.

Honestly I think Zed is really weak at non-bjergsen level play, and his super low winrate supports that. I more often see them do poorly than well, and even when they do well he is shut down so easily compared to most other champions.

D1rtFarmer4 votes

you sir lack integrity.

deadlychuck3 votes

{quoted}

You should itemize against Zed

There exist no easily obtainable items which do itemize against zed, or any AD caster for that matter. Yes, Zonyas does pretty well, but you still have to break that 1600g barrier to get it. QSS, stops his ult but offers nothing against him. Health means nothing because of his passive and most get BotRK pretty early. Armor is also just generally ineffective against AD casters. Due to the amount of % pen you can obtain easily. Also armor is very weak unless paired with health, and health/armor/AP items don't exist. Oh that's also assuming you don't need to concern yourself with mana sustain.

LoRdJeSuS69694201 votes

{quoted}

There exist no easily obtainable items which do itemize against zed, or any AD caster for that matter. Yes, Zonyas does pretty well, but you still have to break that 1600g barrier to get it. QSS, stops his ult but offers nothing against him. Health means nothing because of his passive and most get BotRK pretty early. Armor is also just generally ineffective against AD casters. Due to the amount of % pen you can obtain easily. Also armor is very weak unless paired with health, and health/armor/AP items don't exist. Oh that's also assuming you don't need to concern yourself with mana sustain.

Wut? Seeker's armguard is an incredibly good item, and has an easy build path to boot. An extra doran ring early is also good if you want to itemize for more mana regen while also increasing your durability. If you want more health, rod of ages (catalyst is another excellent item for mana regen), rylai's, and liandries are all good options. A single 8% hp burst of magic damage and a botrk passive on his autos don't come close to making health ineffective. By far, Zed's primary damage output comes from his abilities and to a lesser extent his regular auto attack damage. He also builds no percent pen until somewhat later in the game, and even then, armor still substantially reduces the damage.

And it's not like you're supposed to be able to be invulnerable against zed while still maintaining your role as an AP carry. Zed is, at the end of the day, an assassin, so he should pose a threat to a squishy mage. If you want him to pose less of a threat, you're going to have to either use good teamwork (he is easy to shut down in teamfights) or be less squishy (by sacrificing damage). But honestly a zhonyas alone is usually more than enough to counter him.

Guineasaurus Rex2 votes

for some reason i'm of the mindset that i shouldn't have to itemize against a champ that isn't fed. The fact that zed can be somewhat kept down in lane but still destroy your squishies makes him unlike most other assasins. That and the fact that his lane phase is pretty easy considering he has no mana to worry about so he can q all day long as long as he has energy and he has an easy esacpe. He's too safe, too easy to farm with, and even when he isn't fed does too much dmg. It's dumb

LoRdJeSuS69694201 votes

I don't understand you people. Itemization is counter play, it is interaction. You build magic resistance against magic damage champions, you build percent pen against heavily armored targets, you build flat pen against lightly armored targets; etc...modifying your build for specific champions is just an extension of that. There is no reason you should be able to blindly follow some "build order" you make for yourself and still perform optimally every game.

Honestly, rather than viewing yourself as "needing" to build certain items against zed, you can view it as being able to counter him so hard by doing nothing other than building an item. There are few other champions out there who can get countered as hard as zed can through itemization alone.

WolfChases3 votes

Believe me or not, I have waited to catch you on that. I agree, building MR against AP champions is a thing. For example, building Banshee against LB is a thing because she's killing you with her KIT. Building Zhonya's against Zed is not a counterplay at the same level as Banshee is against Le Blanc, because Zed can either kill you with his kit or with his AAs which are strong as f*ck.

Zhonya's would be a thing against Zed if Zed is an AP assassin who has weak AAs similar to AKALI, so if you Zhonya's his burst he wont be able to kill you...but...If you Zhonya's current Zed's burst, he will wait few second to apply his AA passive and potentially kill you with that single AA. That's not a counterplay, that's just a delaying his 100% successful assassination by a few seconds.

LoRdJeSuS69694201 votes

Well, good luck getting to wait out a zhonyas in the backline of the enemy team, and then being able to have the time to auto attack them down. If you've reduced zed to an auto attacker, you've already won--his auto attacks are super weak compared to any other auto attacking melee champion (yi, fiora, yasuo, etc.), and he has no mechanic to keep himself safe like they do (fiora ult, yi meditate + q, etc).

He has a poor winrate at all ranks for a reason. It's not random. He is easily countered and has a weak teamfight...getting nerfed is the last thing he needs.

WolfChases2 votes

I am talking about laning phase, not about team fight. Zhonya's counters every single champion in the teamfights so it's nothing special if it counters Zed tho... In laning phase, zhonya's means close to nothing except mayne if enemy has a flash of CD so he can flash asap when Zhonya's active expires. If enemy doesn't have his flash, Zhonya's will just delay his death by few seconds and that's all.

Guineasaurus Rex1 votes

it's about having to build a full item for just one champ. Like Tetreb said, with just about any other ap or ad champ you build armor or mr but with zed you can't just get armor, you have to get armor and an item that stops him from easily assassinating you. You may not normally get zhonyas or qss but zeds in game so now it's a must have... Also lets not forget how easily he'll get away after that assassination. I'd honestly be happy with his assassination ability if there was more risk involved for him

Godhri1 votes

What are you talking about? The fact that you purchase items at all means you are ITEMIZING against the enemy team. Before a sensible person purchases any item, they always consider the benefits of purchasing said item. What other benefit of purchasing an item in league is there other than itemizing against the enemy team?

Most Zeds tend to waste their shadows on harass which basically eliminates their escape.

I give up though. I hope Riot does nerf him so I can stop hearing people whine about him.

WolfChases1 votes

Dude let me explain you a few things. At first, let me mention that I had probably more than 600 Zed games last season in platinum elo, so I am not a guy who doesn't know what I'm talking about.

  • Only a bad Zed player rushes hexdrinker. A decent Zed player doesn't need that item because he's wining his lane. Zed can get hex only mid-late game just for a bit more defense if enemy team is fed, but not in his laning phase tho.

  • Forcing current mages to rush Seekers is straight Zed's advantage because, in that case, mages won't be able to force him rush Hexdrinker. Mana regeneration is obnoxiously weak, getting some AP and just 50 armor from Seekers is nothing against Zed with Brutalizer.

  • Zed gets his power spike straight after he gets Cutlass and Bruatlizer, both are quite cheap and Zed can get them before ADC manages to get IE or BT considering how easy Zed can CS even under the turret. In that case scenario ''Building around Zed'' means that ADC should get an early QSS right? That basicly means that ADC with an early QSS will potentially lose the lane against enemy ADC since QSS isn't cheap right? It cost 1200 golds if I am not mistaken? You need just 350 golds for another BF which enemy ADC will be able to get when you get damn QSS, and also, QSS gives you retarded MR instead of armor, that's another disadvantage against both..Zed and enemy Adc.

  • And at the end....''Building around X champion'' doesn't means that champion is healthy. It's not. In the case when you are forced to skip something that you need in order to get something that you MUST just so you can SURVIVE a bit more is not a counterplay, I would rather call that adapting in and surviving which is straight disadvantage right? There is positive and negative adaptation even in real life. Positive adaptation is something we can see among people in Africa or Japan and China for example. Africans are mostly black, they evolved and adapted their skin so they can survive in hot areas and defend their skin from UV light and that's the positive adaptation. In the other hand, in order to survive African temperature, you, as a white, would be forced to go naked, your skin is white, and will be damaged by UV radiation which means that you will most likely get a skin cancer. So going naked is a negative adaptation..you may feed more comfortable but you are damaging your skin and your health. What about Asian people? They have specific shape of their eyes mostly because of the windy areas, that shape helps them protect their eyes from the dust that wind can cause...again, that is a positive adaptation, if you try to shape your eyes to look like an Asian, your sight gets messed up. You may protect your eyes from the dust but you will have to wear glasses in the future..that's called a negative adaptation.

Conclusion?

  • Zed is not balanced.
Godhri1 votes

You're not the only one who has experience with Zed at the platinum level. I've played against Zeds at the plat level and it's all the same to me. The Zeds all make the same mistakes and poor decisions. By your logic, a good AP mage would be able to zone Zed out etc. This means it would be based on skillful play rather than champion kit.

I've even beaten him in lane as Kat who btw has no CC to prevent him from escaping etc. I really honestly don't see the issue, but if you continue to insist, good luck with your endeavor. I hope he gets nerfed so I stop feeling compelled to respond to these posts.

N3mO061 votes

Most important....why zed doeasn't have a cost for the cast on the shadow??? This means 'resource management'

WolfChases1 votes

He has. I dont remember exactly how much but his W costs energy. The only think that doesn't cost energy is his Ult 1st and 2nd cast which also doesn't makes sense to me. Why the hell should point and click gap closer ultimate with free escape that's not limited by range, that makes him untargetable can be resourceless.......

I would be really happy if someone from Riot explains that.

D1rtFarmer1 votes

they wont... this thread actually makes sense

WolfChases1 votes

I am so sad :S

Mooing Kev1 votes

Try playing him beyond gold he aint as easy as you state it. Also a fed talon deletes you in one second not to mention is a lot easier to play and has same wave clear as zed with rake+hydra. He kills turrets even faster imo if you get youmous cuz of his q. Sure he is safe with his ult swap but what good is a safe assassin whos main pop damage isn't guaranteed. Also if you're up against a talon you probably want to get a seeker>zhonya as well so the argument that zed forces you to counter build can be applied to almost every lane cept bot lane where the adc build path is usually the most linear. Zed is more of a niche pick where he fits in only certain team comps and needs to be played at a high level to be effective. I don't kno why people dont complain about kats. For me she is permaban in rank cuz she simply reks solo queue.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

What? Rito looks at Zed all the time of course they of all people would watch the LCS

GripaAviara1 votes

Build item 3157 . Problem solved, even as ADC.

He is very weak. Weak early, weak late. You negate his ulti he can't do nothing, doesn't have atts, his spells are moderate in damage, weak slow and he's very frail. He is perfectly fine mid game owner. Pass midgame and you're fine

In competitive play because they usually have like mid game build when they finish, yeah he is strong, but i never saw him be dreaded

Godhri1 votes

I really don't see why people think he is OP. I zoned him hard as LB and pretty much any mage I've ever played. LB, Lux, Orianna, Lissandra, Brand, etc. Of course, it was a different story once he hit 6 and after laning phase, but even at 6, he was so behind at that point that I could still deny him a certain amount of cs.

The whole argument about "forcing a champion to build an item" is pretty invalid. That's like saying that you shouldn't have to start cloth 5 top vs a heavy AD champ. Makes zero sense. What you call "forcing" is actually a sensible item build to counter Zed's kit. I never even have to complete Zhonyas to beat Zed in lane. It's all a matter of positioning and wave control.

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