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For those claiming the Jinx Rework is a revert to her Original Design... It's not and here's Why!

Azadethe··6 votes·1,875 views

Since Jinx was introduced, here's some things done to her which were not in her original design:

NEW EFFECT: Activates when damaging and/or destroying inhibitors.

Get Excited! NEW EFFECT: Increases Jinx's total attack speed by 15%. Duration increased to 6 seconds from 4.

Super Mega Death Rocket! Minimum AD ratio increased to 15% bonus AD from 10% bonus AD. Maximum AD ratio increased to 150% bonus AD from 100% bonus AD

Flame Chompers! Flame Chompers! Cooldown reduced to 24 / 20.5 / 17 / 13.5 / 10 seconds from 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 / 16.

Zap! Zap! Cooldown reduced to 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 seconds from 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6.

Flame Chompers! Flame Chompers! NEW EFFECT: Rooted enemies are now also Knockdown icon knocked down.

...... And those are just the changes to Jinx which were not countered by some comprehensive rebalancing of her skills (some increases to her passive's attack speed resulted in reductions in attack speed on fishbones, etc)

None of these changes that I just mentioned were counter balances. They were pure buffs.

More Q's, More effective chompers, Higher attack speed from passive, Higher Ult scaling.

Her kit has specifically been buffed on every skill since then.

And now they're giving her DOUBLE the attack speed boost on her Q on top of all these buffs, which she will have full access to by level 8.

I'm going to be perma banning her, because she's already stupidly OP when she contributes to one kill and gets Excited. Now she's going to do the same when she's NOT in Get Excited.

21 Comments

Ahristocats9 votes

that's like 1/8 of what she received since release

Azadethe5 votes

I went through the patch notes and only mentioned the ones that dealt with new utility rather than just a rebalance of where in her kit some things came from.

If I include those there's some nerfs in their too (although usually countered by a later buff or vice versa.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

I'm going to be perma banning her, because she's already stupidly OP when she contributes to one kill and gets Excited.

[sg-miss-fortune] this board

Azadethe2 votes

What really annoys me is we already have 3-4 Must bans (technically about 12-13 of them).

I mean.... just watch what Redmercy does in Bronze (nothing against him, but if he wanted to test Bronze... try different champs than Zed or Akali or Yas/Azir)

I mean..... some of his Zed plays have no real counterplay other than "staying away from him." There's one point where he literally Living Shadows behind a support to snipe the adc behind him right through a skill shot. If it takes that much skill to play vs a Challenger Zed, you can conclude there's no real counterplay, because even local level Zeds do that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peWtLJ4I_E (He goes 26/1 Akali in a game where he does 30k more damage than anyone else on either team..... yet is claiming "they really aren't playing that bad." (They weren't playing bad; but he was Challenger on champs who really don't have much counterplay left after several reworks/buffs)

My personal must bans for obvious reasons:

Akali Zed MonkeyKing Nasus Jax JarvanIV Fiora Tryndamere

And that doesn't include the champs that when fed can shut down an entire team like

Tryndamere Vayne Ziggs Yasuo XinZhao Talon Shaco Sivir Riven Rammus Orianna Malzahar MasterYi Leblanc Katarina Kindred Kayn Illaoi Garen

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

I mean.... just watch what Redmercy does in Bronze (nothing against him, but if he wanted to test Bronze... try different champs than Zed or Akali or Yas/Azir)

Anysh*t would be easy for him at bronze silver level...

I mean..... some of his Zed plays have no real counterplay other than "staying away from him."

No, this only happen when he's fed. But Xerath didn't lane properly, didn't respect Zed, and didn't abuse his range properly.

anyway even at higher elo, ull see such stomp x/0

Wukong ban ???? this champ is garbage, unless otp they're no point to pick him nor ban.

if u want to c*ckblock zed after laning item 3047 item 3026 item 2420 item 3157 item 3190 item 3401

Azadethe1 votes

You do realize that you just said.... Zed only does that when fed. He is always fed, and not every team/champ on a team has stopwatches, and stopwatches do not stop zed from killing you. They only stop his Ult, if used during his ult, and knowledge goes two ways.

An Avid Zed player knows stopwatches, and pokes until it's not a factor. He may bring someone to 20% HP with pokes, and then ult to bait out the watch, and then just stand nearby and wait for it to end, and then just Razor shuriken that last 20%. And after fed, he can do that and remove 60-80% life without his ult. Or, the Zed simply doesn't ult people with stop watches, which is pretty easy considering adcs and supports and juggernaut tops. (Adc might get a GA, but GA doesn't save you. over 95% of GA kills are camped and killed again on the resurrection)

And what's more important is, being an energy champ, his skills are more accessible than the countermeasures to them.

Vectros1 votes

Garen? Illaoi? Wukong? What?

Azadethe1 votes

aka second tier game controllers.

Depending on team composition, Illaoi can be a team lock and 1v5 (again, depending on composition). And, even if a team has the right composition to kill Illaoi, if it's a top on your team who feeds Illaoi 7 kills and 200 cs by the time she's introduced to the rest of the team, she can 1v5. By that point she can sustain enough to easily 1v1, or 1v2, so she really needs 3v1 or better, and the more champions you send at Illaoi, the more she can snowball. At 200 CS 7 kills, she can easily have a item 3140 or item 3139 to spot any attempts to shut her down with CC, and at that point in the game, not many people have enough Grievous wounds to shut her down, making a lot of her counters irrelevant.

Garen has intermittent 90+% tenacity, insane move speed, and can meat tank more damage than any champ in the game. And if he gets low, he can almost always escape and usually draws full team attention. Even if he doesn't 1v5 kill, he's enough of a distraction that the rest of his team sneaks off and takes an entire lane/inhib. And, if he snowballs early enough in the game, he can actually 1v5 a team reliably and safely building lethality/crit, and the defending team usually doesn't get enough map time to actually catch up to him, because his kill presence and speed are so large, and he's doing near True damage to everyone due to Judgement's built in armor shred stacked with item 3071 item 3142 item 3033 . And once he escapes, he can just heal up and come back.

Wukong with aitem 3147 is deadly, almost 1 hits every person he hits, and snowballs fast as heck. Low cooldowns, and enduring knockup ult to top it off. He also deals near true damage, because he too has % built in armor shred, that when combined with item 3147 item 3071 means almost all his damage is true damage, unless you have extremely high armor around 300+ (BC + Q will reduce armor by a total of 54%, which reduces Armor to 138 which gets reduced to 82.6 by a item 3033 After that, a item 3142 item 3147 reduces it to only 46 armor. Most people under 300 Armor, enjoy almost 0 or negative Armor vs Wu Kong. This is insanely deadly in the new rune meta.

Vectros1 votes

Illaoi is one of the most fair champions in the game. If she's successfully going 1 vs 5, it means that A)She's SUPER fed and B)Her opponents were stupid. Yes, she has some of the highest potential in the game, possibly THE highest to fight against stacked odds. That's basically her thing. But it requires a lot of set up and skill on the part of the illaoi. Missing her E means she's basically set to lose the fight, she has to back off at that point. This doesn't even go into things like her mana issues.

Though if we're being honest, 90% of the cast with 7 kills and 200 CS at...you didn't say the time, but I'll assume you mean around 20 minutes-will wreck enemy teams.

90% my ass. they don't add it like that, it's a multiplicative increase. With merc treads, Legend: Tenacity, an Elixer of Iron, and the first .75 seconds of his W, he'll have 84%. I can't think of any other source of tenacity to add to it. And that's for less than a second-with max rank+max cdr, it's on a 12 second CD. Meaning if you're going for a maxed tenacity build, he'll get 84% less than 1/12 the time.

Insane movespeed? Kind of. Plenty of champs outrun him, and there are a LOT of ways to avoid it-CC, dashes, etc. Nothign special. He can tank quite a bit, but there are several champs that out tank him by a fair margin. Always escape? You mean after he blew his Q to catch you? Escape with what, exactly? Unless he didn't use Q to catch you, in which case he won't actually touch you and do...anything you're saying he's going to do.

I will grant you some people underestimate his damage potential, but unlike truly banworthy champions, he has a hard time utilizing it. Compare him to LeBlanc, who can dash at you several times and stun you from a large range. Garen can...run at you. Can he hurt? yes. Is he tanky? Sure. Does this make him op? No.

I won't speak so much on Wukong since I don't play him often...I haven't see him played much, though looking up his numbers on league of graphs, he does seem to be doing well at the moment. While I'm not entirely convinced myself, I'm not knowledable enough on him to say, so I'll concede him.

Quite frankly though, you blew the other two way out of proportion, which makes me question what you say on Wukong.

Azadethe1 votes

  1. Illaoi boils down to being vs the right champs. A heavy melee team is more or less doomed by her, especially if they lack hard CC. That game's not about skill as much as being counterpicked.

  2. Garen indeed can get up to 97+% Tenacity. His W alone is a flat 60%, and once you multiplicatively apply Mercurial Treads, Unflinching, Legend :Tenacity, Elixir of Iron, Cleanse, etc..... It can get so high that a cc lasts about .13 seconds. Its duration is low, but it's powerful, and most of the tenacity exists even when W is down:

The biggest amount of tenacity you can obtain is 98.267% with GarenSquare Garen. Cleanse Cleanse (+65% tenacity) Courage Courage (+60% tenacity) Elixir of Iron item Elixir of Iron + Travel Size Elixir of Iron item Travel Size Elixir of Iron (+50% tenacity) Moonflair Spellblade item Moonflair Spellblade (+35% tenacity) Sterak's Gage item Sterak's Gage (+30% tenacity) Unflinching rune Unflinching (+20% tenacity passive) (+15% tenacity active) Note: Elixir of Iron item Elixir of Iron and Travel Size Elixir of Iron item Travel Size Elixir of Iron stack additively. 1 - ((Cleanse 1 - 0.65) × (Courage 1 - 0.6) × (1 - (Elixir of Iron item 0.25 + Travel Size Elixir of Iron item 0.25)) × (Moonflair Spellblade item 1 - 0.35) × (Sterak's Gage item 1 - 0.3) × (Unflinching rune 1 - 0.2) × (Unflinching rune 1 - 0.15)) = 98.267%

Suppose you adjust this list to reality for summoner's Rift:

Courage Courage (+60% tenacity) Elixir of Iron item Elixir of Iron (+25% tenacity) Sterak's Gage item Sterak's Gage (+30% tenacity) Unflinching rune Unflinching (+20% tenacity passive) (+15% tenacity active)

1-(Courage 1 - 0.6) x (1 - (Elixir of Iron item 0.25 )) x (Sterak's Gage item 1 - 0.3) x ((Unflinching rune 1 - 0.2) × (Unflinching rune 1 - 0.15)) X (item 3111 1 - 0.3) = 90.004% Tenacity.

And that's what's reliable in Ranked.

If Courage is down, it's 75.01% CC reduction.

This is why Garen is such aids and can even escape 1v5's, because as soon as he drops all the CC put on him, he activates item 3142 and runs away with his Q.

Again..... I said these are Tier 2 Team controllers. The number of champs who always have a presence and control the flow of the game is very small, and Tier 2's do it. Even if they are able to be shut down, they take teams to do it, and pro teams abuse that. In Plat + I can guarantee that if a Garen is in game, while the opposing team focuses on Garen, Garen's team will take an entire lane. If there's an Illaoi and she wins the lane, I can guarantee her cs is high, and her damage in an encounter even if she dies, forces recalls, and pulls teams away from focusing on the adc/mid/jungle on Illaoi's teams. That's the nature of powerful lane bullies: they control games just by existing. In contrast, An adc without a front line farming a lane = a target. A support usually isn't a killing contributor without a team. A mid is usually a powerful damage dealer, but also not usually the best lane pusher, and is the most prone to ganks. A jungler is usually at the mercy of their team as well.

Vectros1 votes

I'll give you this: I didn't think about a couple of these things...

I try not to have a mind set of "I'm always right", and I've been basically using the same build on him since Pre-season from the get go, so I didn't think about Unflinching-I didn't think it'd really be any good. Though I will point out at the moment, despite it's popularity, it is NOT the highest winrate on him-but I am going to try it out some. That being said, there's enough knock ups in this game, Tenacity feels useless half the time.

Ok, talking about Plat+, Garen is a little strange. Typically a champion either rises or falls going from low to high/high to low in win rate. Garen drops the higher you go until you hit Plat, where he goes over 50%-then plummets to 46% in Diamond+. Illaoi goes from 50.1 to sub 50. Maybe not weak, but I wouldn't say good either. Can she a threat? Sure, but going back to the original discussion, I can't call her ban worthy.

Azadethe1 votes

Second strings aren't generally banworthy on my list either. I still observe them as independently disruptive.

Let me put it this way.

I had a Lux on my team yesterday while I Leona jungled. It was mostly a Diamond level game. Lux went 22/2/8. But I don't call her disruptive, because that was the result of the other team forgetting she existed and trying to skirmish me and the rest of our team while she just slaughtered them from a distance. If it was a smart team, they would have been taking out Lux in 2 hits before attempting to fight us, that wouldn't have happened. And, Lux doesn't bind up team time; If she kills you, it's instant, ress timers. If you're trying to kill her, it takes 20-30 sec to set up the pick.

My problem with what I call second stringers is they just absorb "time" and you rarely get anything for it. If Garen has Demolish, and keeps harassing a lost top lane that your top laner has now abandoned, he needs addressed or he's going to end the game by taking turret after turret. Same with Illaoi. And even if you do actually engage them, most have kits to where they can get away, and come back as soon as you leave, with Demolish primed for another Volley. At least with Illaoi or Yorick you can kill them. But Garen gets away. Nasus has the capacity to kill 2-3 of you irregardless if you're ganking him, and get back to 1-2 hitting turrets. You can't just let them go, and addressing them always has inherent risks and wastes of time.

If an adc is pushing bot, you just kill her. She's very unlikely to be able to return the favor, and it doesn't take a team effort. If what i'm calling second Tier pushes, they take an entire game and sometimes that's not enough. If a Mage pushes anywhere, they're dead. period.

Except the ones I mentioned, Mages and adcs are more or less trivial when pushing objectives and considering time expenditures. The ones I mentioned all waste time, are high risk, result in multi kills and sometimes whole team wipes, which is how they waste time.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

What really annoys me is we already have 3-4 Must bans (technically about 12-13 of them).

I mean.... just watch what Redmercy does in Bronze (nothing against him, but if he wanted to test Bronze... try different champs than Zed or Akali or Yas/Azir)

I mean..... some of his Zed plays have no real counterplay other than "staying away from him." There's one point where he literally Living Shadows behind a support to snipe the adc behind him right through a skill shot. If it takes that much skill to play vs a Challenger Zed, you can conclude there's no real counterplay, because even local level Zeds do that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peWtLJ4I_E (He goes 26/1 Akali in a game where he does 30k more damage than anyone else on either team..... yet is claiming "they really aren't playing that bad." (They weren't playing bad; but he was Challenger on champs who really don't have much counterplay left after several reworks/buffs)

My personal must bans for obvious reasons:

Akali Zed MonkeyKing Nasus Jax JarvanIV Fiora Tryndamere

And that doesn't include the champs that when fed can shut down an entire team like

Tryndamere Vayne Ziggs Yasuo XinZhao Talon Shaco Sivir Riven Rammus Orianna Malzahar MasterYi Leblanc Katarina Kindred Kayn Illaoi Garen

  1. Redmercy is high Diamond, not Challenger.

  2. Didn't watch, but I imagine he got fed, in which case...yeah, you get burst down by the burst champ.

Azadethe1 votes

RedMercy is Master/Challenger tier

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Redmercy

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

RedMercy is Master/Challenger tier

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Redmercy

He barely scraped it last season. He's pretty much high Diamond, just like how I barely scraped mid Diamond. He's good, but not like seasoned players of that elo.

Azadethe1 votes

But what's the margin of skill between Diamond 1 and Challenger? like maybe a 3% proficiency advantage, if the difference in proficiency from Master to Bronze is like 50%? I'm pretty sure most Diamond I players are Challenger calibre; it's just gated by the 1000 LP tiers, and the intensity that more or less leaves some behind.

I think they're all net athletes. Some just occasionally make 1 in 1000 mistakes more than the people who end up at the top.

Saying just "scraped" it sounds like an insult considering where in the player population those guys lie.

(only 1 in 2074 players is even in that ballpark)

Rexxiee2 votes

Shes not recieving double her AS bonus on Q, she had 70% as at lvl 18 she gained per champion level after ranking Q, they removed that and put back on her Q ranks, in fact she lost 10% AS at lvl 18 total compared to now (140% total vs 130%).

Why did this get upvoted again?

Jinx has been recieving little buffs because she has been consistently the worst hyper carry of the bunch ever since they trashed her rocket form dps.

Shes still going to be a worse version of twitch, but hey silvers sure know how to overreact.

Azadethe2 votes

It's double on her Q. It's the same scaling as her old total at 18, but now it's accessible at level 8-9.

Learn to actually read before replying.

her old "access" at level 8 was only about 80% (10% + level 5 Q @ 70%). She now is going to have the full 130% at half the levels.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

jinx is actually disgusting, she's like lee except without nearly enough stigma.

she'll get buffed off of the smallest stuff and her playerbase always thinks she's like the weakest adc in the game when in fact she one of the most obnoxious and overloaded. enormous aoe hypercarry with an aoe execute, excellent chasing, cc, and a strong lane. every time she isn't completely dominating the meta she gets some big crazy buff because she's flashy and loud and fun to look at.

just giving her more free right click power when that's literally what's so toxic about her is such a horrible move.

Daddy Ants1 votes

Level 9* not 8

DestructoDave1 votes

I dont understand why shes getting buffs when she is consistently healthy in win-ratio. Meanwhile there are lots of ADCs obviously worse than her. Just because she's not picked in the LCS is about the only reason.

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