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I hate when people say assassins don't require skill or strategy

Rock MD··10 votes·2,016 views

There's 2 big reasons why

  1. It's a knee jerk reaction to the assassin meta. It's very easy to, in any meta, claim that the offending class ruins all skill and strategy involved. Tanks are meta? Wow no strategy involved tanks literally 100-0 me as ADC and no matter how much peel I get they survive long enough to 100-0 me while facetanking my entire team. AND THERE ARE THREE OF THEM ON THE ENEMY TEAM. Support meta? Wow support buys Ardent Censor and ADC can't die no skill involved. Same principle.

  2. Assassins do have a strategic value. When a class is strong, it's easy to say it's braindead because it probably is. When it's not the best/2nd best class though, it does indeed have a strategic value.

The strategic value of an assassin is stopping deathball comps. Deathball comps are especially common in pro play, high elo, and literally any Discord/Teamspeak tourney. You might think that assassins are boring, but I think that letting the game run to late-game, having both teams charge straight into each other, and letting the most fed adc/dps mage run the game is extremely stagnant. Worse is if both teams are even and it just becomes some attrition war.

Assassins are valuable because they can get picks that make it possible to actually play the game from behind. Down 2k gold but the Zed kills Caitlyn? That's great you can go for Baron and turn the game around.

I honestly think we need to nerf Kha'Zix and a couple others but the fact Boards thinks assassins are mindless (insert favorite choice of derogatory term here) playing for KDA kinda blows my mind and makes me think maybe the other class mains are a bit more biased and unfair than they claim to be.

30 Comments

Arammus9 votes

personally i always hated assassins. i remember when i was a 13/2 ashe and the enemys had a 0/4 rengar. he just finished his duskblade and his infinity edge. not even 10miin later i was 13/8 and he was 6/4.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Hayaishi5 votes

They are braindless because you can't outplay them. Pretty much only Zed can be outplayed. the others just kill you with their 100000 million ways they have to avoid interaction.

murderess2 votes

They are braindless because you can't outplay them.

No I can, thank you very much. YOU can't outplay them.

Hayaishi3 votes

{quoted}

No I can, thank you very much. YOU can't outplay them.

awn sure you can buddy.

HaIlMonitor2 votes

High elo players do it all the time.... So yeah, you can.

Hayaishi3 votes

{quoted}

High elo players do it all the time.... So yeah, you can.

Yeah only when its an assassin vs another assassin. they outplay each other by smashing their rotation faster than the enemy lmao.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

Lol sure.

Glîtchy4 votes

when you really get down to it, Assassins are taking less skill, especially the mid lane assassins, Akali avoids turret shots, Kat refunds ALL cooldowns when she gets kills/assists if it was just shunpo resets, sure then I'd have no problem, Leblanc and ekko both have "oops I F'd up" abilities, Kass has a stupid amount of built in blinks, and Zed's damage is disgusting, Talon does absurd damage once he gets his hands on serrated dirk, and lastly Fizz.....E burst nuff said.

MasterDClone1 votes

Kat is one of the assassins that take the most amount of skill to succeed on right now, ekko is rather weak at the moment and leblanc i agree is disgusting. Kass has a lot of dashes but the mana cost limits it so he has to use it wisely and zed is getting indirect nerfs soon

murderess1 votes

{quoted}

when you really get down to it, Assassins are taking less skill, especially the mid lane assassins, Akali avoids turret shots, Kat refunds ALL cooldowns when she gets kills/assists if it was just shunpo resets, sure then I'd have no problem, Leblanc and ekko both have "oops I F'd up" abilities, Kass has a stupid amount of built in blinks, and Zed's damage is disgusting, Talon does absurd damage once he gets his hands on serrated dirk, and lastly Fizz.....E burst nuff said.

Well, atleast they have to jump in - you can't say about the likes of (checking you op.gg) ----- Veigar and Yorick?! Good lord, why do you concern yourself with skill?

Glîtchy1 votes

{quoted}

Well, atleast they have to jump in - you can't say about the likes of (checking you op.gg) ----- Veigar and Yorick?! Good lord, why do you concern yourself with skill?

Uhh you're kinda derailing the topic, the topic is assassins, besides I haven't played Veigar in some time, I only used him to climb outta bronze.

murderess1 votes

'Taking skill' has to be understood in the context of the skill that playing other champions League do. And assassins definitely do take skill compared to whatever you appear to be playing.

Glîtchy1 votes

{quoted}

'Taking skill' has to be understood in the context of the skill that playing other champions League do. And assassins definitely do take skill compared to whatever you appear to be playing.

Twitch jg, poor camp clear, weak early game, yet I carry like a boss

murderess1 votes

.. Is this sarcasm? I'm genuinely asking as I'm not sure.

Glîtchy1 votes

{quoted}

.. Is this sarcasm? I'm genuinely asking as I'm not sure.

no, he really does have poor camp clear, and I have carried as him, check my match history.

murderess1 votes

So you are unironically bragging about carrying normal games "like a boss"? Alright then..

Ch1efBeefQueef3 votes

Isn't it great that games are balanced around pro play and tournament play? It just makes the game so much fun and so fair for the rest of us! And you are right, i'm just jumping on an assassin hate wagon, i totally haven't had any legitimate grievances with assassins in the 8 years i have wasted playing this game.

Alright everybody put your pitchforks down, this guy has breathed sense into all of us. Assassins are totally necessary elements to the game, and in fact, we should be thankful for their presence in this game!

MasterDClone1 votes

im not sure where your going with this and/or what your trying to say

Ch1efBeefQueef1 votes

Hmmm, take every statement i said in that post and reverse it and you may just be on the right track.

MasterDClone1 votes

no i get it's sarcasm i'm not an idiot, what i'm trying to figure out is what you're trying to say, because the game is balanced around pro-play and around high elo play and around low elo play and around casual play - so as for that im not sure if you mean the game should have no balancing around there pro-scene at all which doesn't make sense.

next you talk about having hated assassins previous to this meta which isn't what the op is trying to say, just to tell people that even tho assassins are strong right now they still require skill to play. But you just can't get past the fact that they're strong and need nerfs which is really weird and my cause for confusion

Ch1efBeefQueef1 votes

The OP insinuated that this is just an angry mob movement and that most of us didn't have an issue with assassins before season 8. I have detested assassins since i first started playing this game, and i know others who do as well. My reasoning for not liking assassins is that they often avoid punishment for poor plays, as they usually have a get out of jail free card tucked under their sleeve. And they often punish you for having bad teammates, as they can often be found smashing them for overextending even when they themselves lost lane hard and are very far behind.

This has been a running theme with assassins and i find in solo queue it is toxic for the game. Just my opinion of course.

And the game being balanced around pro play and tournament play bothers me as well, for many different reasons. I am under the opinion that this game should be balanced differently for ranked solo queue and perhaps casual as well, then it is from tournament/pro play.

You said you are not an idiot, so for the sake of brevity i wont go in to explaining why balancing for everything at once rather than having a vacuum for each side of the spectrum can be seen as a potential issue.

I might also add that i happen to be terrible at articulating my thoughts. Apologies for the confusion.

MasterDClone2 votes

First off thank-you for the detail response in clearing it up.

As is with every meta there is always an angry mob movement against the strongest class, like supports during ardent censor and i am sure there are people who have had problems with the class for before that point most are just voicing their frustration at the class because they have been the strongest class in the current meta. I have always hate bruisers since when i started playing on my first account back in season 2 for the same reasons you listed for hating assassins.

I don't consider myself an assassin main because i one-trick shaco which is the only assassin i enjoy playing and can't bring myself to play any othe, but posts talking about assassin's include shaco and i usually make responses in posts like these.

As for your bit on proplay i have to say that i agree completely and that they should have 2 if not 3 completely different balancing sections. i only play ranked and don't watch pro-play at all and find annoying aswell when they make balancing decisions around it even if i understand why

Rock MD1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soda Popinski,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xLLAAVBU,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T01:47:10.069+0000)

The OP insinuated that this is just an angry mob movement and that most of us didn't have an issue with assassins before season 8. I have detested assassins since i first started playing this game, and i know others who do as well. My reasoning for not liking assassins is that they often avoid punishment for poor plays, as they usually have a get out of jail free card tucked under their sleeve. And they often punish you for having bad teammates, as they can often be found smashing them for overextending even when they themselves lost lane hard and are very far behind.

This has been a running theme with assassins and i find in solo queue it is toxic for the game. Just my opinion of course.

And the game being balanced around pro play and tournament play bothers me as well, for many different reasons. I am under the opinion that this game should be balanced differently for ranked solo queue and perhaps casual as well, then it is from tournament/pro play.

You said you are not an idiot, so for the sake of brevity i wont go in to explaining why balancing for everything at once rather than having a vacuum for each side of the spectrum can be seen as a potential issue.

I might also add that i happen to be terrible at articulating my thoughts. Apologies for the confusion.

No I'm insinuating that assassins go through the same motions as other classes and the hate on the class itself, as well as the people that main is, is silly biased nonsense.

Also, balancing around pros and high elo players is by far the superior option. If I put more time and effort into learning the game than you, why should I be punished for it?

Riot of course deals with extreme cases (Garen and Yorick are getting nerfs this upcoming patch) but it's unfair for me to have champions I cannot play because casual players couldn't deal with them. It's also unfair to me to have champions absolutely broken in my elo (Azir, Ryze) left completely unattended just so players who can't play them properly have a chance to succeed. No we should not balance the game around low elo.

Ch1efBeefQueef1 votes

"Also, balancing around pros and high elo players is by far the superior option. If I put more time and effort into learning the game than you, why should I be punished for it?"

First off, what? How in any way does the game being balanced around pro play have anything to do with how much effort anyone puts into learning the game...

Second, i dont think you read what i said, because i stated that there should be a completely different section of balance for pros and for solo queue. As in Riot makes changes for pro/tournament play, as they always do, but it ONLY effects pro/tournament play. And Riot makes changes for solo queue play, as they always do, but it ONLY effects solo queue play.

If you need a real life representation of this application of thinking, look at hockey. EVERY level of hockey from tykes to the NHL has different rules specifically catered to that level of play.

There is a reason we keep our classes separated in society, why can't we keep them separated in this. We already know that Riot wants to push this game into being a sport... Why don't they start treating it like other sports and actually have real divisions rather than fancy borders for bragging rights.

Fízz v23 votes

Obviously anivia pressing R on the wave to scale has more strategy EleGiggle

SwiftKitten882 votes

well im not going to lie.. SOME assassins take skill.. and many assassins (outside of Zed ) also take skill during laning phase...

but i will admit that very few assassins "take skill" to 1 shot someone"

pretty much every assassins take no skill in order to 1 shot someone.. where most of them take skill are in other parts.

for example... my own main Nidalee

she takes skill to land a spear sure... its a skillshot...

and AFTER the spear lands you need to know if uc an safely go in or not

but if u choose to go in.. its not some "crazy hard thing to do"

spear lands.. press R to turn into kitty.. run at them until they get in the 750 empowered pounce range. pounce in (w) which is a directly click on them and swipe takedown or just takedown.. its not exactly complex.. there is no variation... once u land the spear and choose whether to go in.. there is NO skill involved.. sure there might be skill in getting out.. but that is negligible, because u don't pounce in if they can kill you in return

and nidalee is one fo the assassin that actually takes the MOST skill..

MonkeyKing is easily one of the most braindead champions in the whole game...

NOTHING in his kit takes skill..

go invisible and dash at them and empowered auto...

you can even press R for a free escape.

this works just as well in a 5v5 as it does a 1v1 or any combination... there is no skill involved

Zed USED to take skill before R Esummoner 14 woudl 100/0 any squishy even if u missed every single shuriken (might be W not 100% sure which key is which i don't play zed so i dont really care what key its on)

and don't try to tell me it can't i have SEEN video of it doing so

but even doing so woudl REQUIRE said player to have enough gold and be ahead enough for that to work.. so u can just say "takes no skill" i mean sure; if your crazy ahead it doesn't take much skill to beat someone.. but u generally wont be crazy ahead unless u have skill

unless again MonkeyKing because.. u literally have to BE a monkey to fail at him.

the VAST majority of assassin ARE completely braindead when it comes to their assassinating people... and many have bare any counterplay.. and some have NO counterplay

but that donest mean to say they "as a class" don't take skill.

there are areas where they don't take skill and there are areas they do take TREMENDOUS skill.

and like i said that doesn't apply to every assassin.. i cant defend MonkeyKing or Quinn as if they take skill at any point in the game... other than the general knowing the map and how to freeze and push waves kinda thing.. but that's not "champsion" skill.

hell Garen is easily 3x harder than MonkeyKing, as u can press his button at the wrong time. u cant even do THAT with MonkeyKing

MasterDClone1 votes

i remember back when wukong was a fighter and not only an assassin but a mascot for the braidead ones, lol.

Summonah123691 votes

{quoted}

well im not going to lie.. SOME assassins take skill.. and many assassins (outside of Zed ) also take skill during laning phase...

but i will admit that very few assassins "take skill" to 1 shot someone"

pretty much every assassins take no skill in order to 1 shot someone.. where most of them take skill are in other parts.

for example... my own main Nidalee

she takes skill to land a spear sure... its a skillshot...

and AFTER the spear lands you need to know if uc an safely go in or not

but if u choose to go in.. its not some "crazy hard thing to do"

spear lands.. press R to turn into kitty.. run at them until they get in the 750 empowered pounce range. pounce in (w) which is a directly click on them and swipe takedown or just takedown.. its not exactly complex.. there is no variation... once u land the spear and choose whether to go in.. there is NO skill involved.. sure there might be skill in getting out.. but that is negligible, because u don't pounce in if they can kill you in return

and nidalee is one fo the assassin that actually takes the MOST skill..

MonkeyKing is easily one of the most braindead champions in the whole game...

NOTHING in his kit takes skill..

go invisible and dash at them and empowered auto...

you can even press R for a free escape.

this works just as well in a 5v5 as it does a 1v1 or any combination... there is no skill involved

Zed USED to take skill before R Esummoner 14 woudl 100/0 any squishy even if u missed every single shuriken (might be W not 100% sure which key is which i don't play zed so i dont really care what key its on)

and don't try to tell me it can't i have SEEN video of it doing so

but even doing so woudl REQUIRE said player to have enough gold and be ahead enough for that to work.. so u can just say "takes no skill" i mean sure; if your crazy ahead it doesn't take much skill to beat someone.. but u generally wont be crazy ahead unless u have skill

unless again MonkeyKing because.. u literally have to BE a monkey to fail at him.

the VAST majority of assassin ARE completely braindead when it comes to their assassinating people... and many have bare any counterplay.. and some have NO counterplay

but that donest mean to say they "as a class" don't take skill.

there are areas where they don't take skill and there are areas they do take TREMENDOUS skill.

and like i said that doesn't apply to every assassin.. i cant defend MonkeyKing or Quinn as if they take skill at any point in the game... other than the general knowing the map and how to freeze and push waves kinda thing.. but that's not "champsion" skill.

hell Garen is easily 3x harder than MonkeyKing, as u can press his button at the wrong time. u cant even do THAT with MonkeyKing

I main Nidalee too :D

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