I've spent over 40,000 IP on runes

Rock MD·Jun 2, 2017·187 votes·21,411 views

MS quints = 2050x3 AD marks/armor seals/MR glyphs = 205x9 per category AD quints = 512x3 AS quints = 1025x3 magic pen marks/hp per lvl seals/cdr per lvl glyphs = 410x9 per category AP quints = 512x3 armor pen marks = 410x9 dual pen marks = 820x9

and these are simply the runes you need for mages, assassins, and ADs to be competitive over the 4-5 seasons I've played. It says nothing of the armor quints, scaling armor seals, flat AP or scaling MR glyphs I've bought on top of numerous others.

I don't care if I get a single point back it's a bad system and if it's addressed (and fixed) for newer players and it gets more people interested in the game then it's worth it.

EDIT; this doesn't include rune pages, of which I have 13. I got at least 3 from 2-for-1 sales.

Also, for the people that say that's a trivial amount, that's just for optimal setups for mid/ads/adcs over the years. I added up the total just for you guys.

It's 95k. Not as much as the people that intentionally bought stupid/severely weak runes but still a very large percentage of the game going toward laughably small in-game bonuses.

152 Comments

RiotSparkleJun 2, 2017114 votes

Hey guys, I just wanna pop in and say that you probably won't see us posting in a ton of these IP related topics until we actually have something to say but we are reading all of your feedback that you've posted in terms of the Runes transition.

We don't expect that everyone will be as selfless as OP here but we do believe that the new Runes system is a positive change for our game and we're committed to doing right by players in both the short and long term around this project.

So just wanna say that if we're not talking a lot on this point right now, it's mostly because we're listening.

Bots Whilst HighJun 2, 20176 votes

I understand that you haven't decided on anything yet, I would just like the team responsible for making the decision to consider the opportunity costs that a lot of long times players went through when deciding whether to buy very expensive runes or purchase a new champion while determining what type and how much compensation (if any), is awarded.

I personally purchased several champions with RP (system working as intended I assume) just so I could feel competitive with runes while also having a diverse champion pool for swaps/counterpicks/fun. This somewhat inhibited my overall enjoyment in the game knowing I had to make a decision between buying a new champion which is considered a fun use of IP or the grind fest of runes knowing I had to spend 5 bucks per champion whenever I wanted something different.

Anyways, I'm stoked that your implementing a new free system to counter the grind fest and I am honestly excited to see it implemented, regardless of the compensation that so many of us long time players feel we deserve.

DokkaebiJun 3, 20172 votes

This ^

dlayedJun 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=OG KRILL,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aR024Npe,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2017-06-02T23:25:36.705+0000)

I understand that you haven't decided on anything yet, I would just like the team responsible for making the decision to consider the opportunity costs that a lot of long times players went through when deciding whether to buy very expensive runes or purchase a new champion while determining what type and how much compensation (if any), is awarded.

I personally purchased several champions with RP (system working as intended I assume) just so I could feel competitive with runes while also having a diverse champion pool for swaps/counterpicks/fun. This somewhat inhibited my overall enjoyment in the game knowing I had to make a decision between buying a new champion which is considered a fun use of IP or the grind fest of runes knowing I had to spend 5 bucks per champion whenever I wanted something different.

Anyways, I'm stoked that your implementing a new free system to counter the grind fest and I am honestly excited to see it implemented, regardless of the compensation that so many of us long time players feel we deserve.

Honestly bro, it's a f2p game, if you spent actual 💰 to by champs then that was your choice. Riot has already said they are going to try and compensate the people who have spent 1000s on runes. This new rune/mastery setup is something fresh rather Then the non interactive runes we have now.

Bots Whilst HighJun 3, 20172 votes

I understand it's F2P and I don't regret my purchases, but they were made under the assumption that the rune system I dumped thousands of IP on for runed instead of champions would exist in some form indefinitely.

iMaB3ASTJun 2, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aR024Npe,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2017-06-02T23:06:34.151+0000)

Hey guys, I just wanna pop in and say that you probably won't see us posting in a ton of these IP related topics until we actually have something to say but we are reading all of your feedback that you've posted in terms of the Runes transition.

We don't expect that everyone will be as selfless as OP here but we do believe that the new Runes system is a positive change for our game and we're committed to doing right by players in both the short and long term around this project.

So just wanna say that if we're not talking a lot on this point right now, it's mostly because we're listening.

So these new Runes with replace the old Runes system and Masteries as well?

KrittyJun 3, 20172 votes

{quoted}

So these new Runes with replace the old Runes system and Masteries as well?

I believe that's what they said.

The way I see it, it'll make them easier to balance as a whole, rather than having to change them separately to accommodate things. Instead of having to fiddle with two different systems, they'll be able to make balance changes to one overarching system, lessening the time it would take to work on them.

RiotSparkleJun 3, 201725 votes

Yes, Runes Reforged will combine and replace the current Runes and Masteries systems.

TsavdasJun 3, 20171 votes

Hi mate, do you know when? Because i am broke and i want to build my runes properly...!!!

Thank you

My Waifu VanillaJun 3, 20172 votes

Preseason so around mid-December.

RacoonHunterJun 3, 20174 votes

I'm glad. The current system is dumb and needed a complete overhaul in order to better balance champions

Lucky DoubleJun 3, 20176 votes

so does this mean season 8 we will have low base ad base ap and so on?

ZeichiVosJun 2, 201753 votes

Riot posts like this one, ones that say,

hey, we're here, and just because we don't have a good answer right now doesn't mean we aren't listening

are so incredibly valuable. Thanks for popping in Sparkle!

Rock MDJun 3, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aR024Npe,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2017-06-02T23:06:34.151+0000)

Hey guys, I just wanna pop in and say that you probably won't see us posting in a ton of these IP related topics until we actually have something to say but we are reading all of your feedback that you've posted in terms of the Runes transition.

We don't expect that everyone will be as selfless as OP here but we do believe that the new Runes system is a positive change for our game and we're committed to doing right by players in both the short and long term around this project.

So just wanna say that if we're not talking a lot on this point right now, it's mostly because we're listening.

Neat my first Rito comment.

OwynJun 3, 201712 votes

and I believe that I've just wasted tens of thousands of IP on those useless runes instead of buying fun champs now I can no longer afford [slayer-jinx-unamused]

ElikainJun 3, 20175 votes

You have to understand something - if a champion's price drops (Riot's IP/RP price reductions that happen eventually for older champions), Riot doesn't go around their playerbase and compensates every player for the price adjustments. You've purchased something when it was convenient for you and unless the price change and purchase were recent (a few days old at most), there aren't going to be any refunds.

Why would this be any different for runes? I've also invested a lot of IP but i don't really care that much about "wasted IP". It wasn't wasted as i needed runes. And i didn't buy runes that i actually didn't need. So i payed for what Riot offered in terms of mini-stats and i got exactly what i payed for. I too agree that runes were probably overpriced on multiple occasions but Riot did reduce their price according their tier. That was the first step. Reworking both systems is the second step and making it free is pretty much what everyone wanted.

Yes, i could've used this IP to buy champions but i don't really care about. Champions themselves are a lot more comprehensive than runes so if i decide to buy a champion, i don't make this decision lightly only to disregard them after one game as "bad". Which means that if i need to start earning for more champions, i can do that gradually and without pressure. Unless you're a completionist and want to own every champion, this isn't going to affect players all that much.

Maverik556Sep 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You have to understand something - if a champion's price drops (Riot's IP/RP price reductions that happen eventually for older champions), Riot doesn't go around their playerbase and compensates every player for the price adjustments. You've purchased something when it was convenient for you and unless the price change and purchase were recent (a few days old at most), there aren't going to be any refunds.

Why would this be any different for runes? I've also invested a lot of IP but i don't really care that much about "wasted IP". It wasn't wasted as i needed runes. And i didn't buy runes that i actually didn't need. So i payed for what Riot offered in terms of mini-stats and i got exactly what i payed for. I too agree that runes were probably overpriced on multiple occasions but Riot did reduce their price according their tier. That was the first step. Reworking both systems is the second step and making it free is pretty much what everyone wanted.

Yes, i could've used this IP to buy champions but i don't really care about. Champions themselves are a lot more comprehensive than runes so if i decide to buy a champion, i don't make this decision lightly only to disregard them after one game as "bad". Which means that if i need to start earning for more champions, i can do that gradually and without pressure. Unless you're a completionist and want to own every champion, this isn't going to affect players all that much.

I am sorry, but the way you are looking at this is totally wrong. People do not mind when champions prices raise and drop after they have purchased them, as the deal was at that time, and that was the agreed price. But this is totally different. You not changing the runes. You are wiping them out. So unless some kind of refund scheme is put in place. You are giving people who decided to get champions in stead, an unfair advantage as they have a bigger champion selection to choose from, as they have more unlocked.

But this is not my main concern as IP is an in game currency that you give us just for playing the game. The problem comes when people have put on RP with their money, to get addition rune pages. You changing runes and taking pages away from people, is in my opinion stealing from them. It it was a game like COD, its the equivalent of selling an expansion for more content. Then taking it away making loads of money from people who can now not enjoy the content they paid for.

I am glad you say you are still listening to people. Before you say i am being selfish like someone did earlier to the main post created. I actually have not put RP on for rune pages. So this would not effect me. Something in my opinion needs to be done to compensate for the players that use their IP on runes as they come at a hefty price, and they buy them to unlock more game styles and strategies. Which to take away for nothing is wrong in my eyes. What i would like to see is either there not being a limit to amount of new pages you can have. Or be able to change them like you can with masteries pre game. If this is not the case. I would advise you to keep the rune pages unlocked by players, still live in the new "runes reforged". As this would solve the RP issue as its is the only thing i believe that can be bought by RP on runes.

Hope you take what i say on board as some of these new changes may upset a large portion of your community, especially if you decide just to wipe clean, all the IP and RP that have been put into runes by player.

MyrkrvaldyrJun 3, 20174 votes

Just give us several options for compensation, don't stick to one only. I made a short post about it.

DeadUnbornJun 3, 20173 votes

As a lol player that has played continually for 4 years, as long as I am reimbursed for the RP I put into the system (even if its just hextech chests or the like) I would be more than satisfied. Couldn't care less about IP since people in my position have no real use for it other than mastery seven emotes, specially since you can game 3 champion shards for 5200 and mx them in loot to get any new characters that come out

Yordle XayahJun 3, 20172 votes

Hi. I'll trade all of my current Runes (470+) and Pages (14) for a Tristana Summoner Icon

PearPearadoxJun 3, 20173 votes

"until we actually have something to say" "we actually have something to say"

So you made the decision without consideration of what will happen to the hundreds of thousands of players who spent IP on runes?

SnakDatSmilesBakJun 3, 20173 votes

That's what this implies. Pretty irresponsible if you ask me.

OP Garen SupportJun 4, 20172 votes

As I mention in previous posts. IP is useless for most of us who own every champion and have a worthless amount of champion shards. In case we get compensated by getting back all the IP we spent, RIOT should introduce the system of converting IP to blue or orange essence, if they value us costumers.

My idea for example 1000 IP = 100 orange essence = 500 blue essence That would also be the ideal IP sink people are asking for ages.

Riot probably wont give us RP back already spent in the game nor will they want you to buy everything you want for RP in the next half year. They are a company they want us to spend more money on the game.(it is understandable)

We also wont accept worthless icons for "good times" sake. We had to make sacrifices choosing between having fun with new champions or having equal footing against others with runes and rune pages. The new rune system sounds fun and fresh and should be implemented.

Having the ability to convert IP to the essence of our choosing will help us activate skins from the chests.

This would solve everything and every side would be happy.

Automated RivenJun 4, 20172 votes

Just a query. Are you guys going to take into consideration the account standing when you choose how to address the way you are going to compensate players? I know that in most cases maybe an IP refund will be greatly appreciated but there are some of us who already have all of the champions and in these senarios an IP refund would be largely useless. I have seen some people worried about this and just wanted to give voice to the fear so you are aware. All things considered tho,

Thanks for a great game.

KoalaIsBaeAug 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aR024Npe,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2017-06-02T23:06:34.151+0000)

Hey guys, I just wanna pop in and say that you probably won't see us posting in a ton of these IP related topics until we actually have something to say but we are reading all of your feedback that you've posted in terms of the Runes transition.

We don't expect that everyone will be as selfless as OP here but we do believe that the new Runes system is a positive change for our game and we're committed to doing right by players in both the short and long term around this project.

So just wanna say that if we're not talking a lot on this point right now, it's mostly because we're listening.

Just an idea but since the player base seem to feel that they have wasted their time and ip on buying runes instead of champions because of these changes maybe you can lower the ip cost for all champions and the future champions. Since it takes quite a while to grind the 6300 and sometimes 7000 ip that it fprces players to spen either their time and ip on runes or champions and it cant be both because of the huge cost.

Jo0oJun 2, 201753 votes

This didn't go in the direction that I thought it was gonna go.

ImTheSideKickJun 2, 201712 votes

indeed, came to down vote but ended up up voting

Lothàrs EdgeJun 2, 201711 votes

Made similar thread on reddit with more analysis on why games feel rigged and linear. Got downvoted cause "don't complain about f2p games hurr durr"

SanKakUJun 2, 201710 votes

This might not be a popular opinion, but I'm glad they're thinking about how to compensate us for the rune money we spent. After all, they haven't been offering us refunds on champions that they massively reworked. So getting IP to buy some new champs thanks to the new rune system would be a sweet deal that would prevent losing the older champions feel so horrible.

I just lost 2 of my favorite champions, Sejuani and Rammus to the reworks. I'm okay with the Taric rework, but he was never a favorite of mine. I'm not okay with the Galio rework, and would definitely like a refund for him. Sejuani, too. I can't get one for Rammus though since I got him for free.

NinjaGuy69Jun 2, 20175 votes

New001 explicitly stated in the Developer video which discussed Runes that they were planning on compensating players who spent IP/RP on the old runes, but they don't have anything to announce at the moment. I'm pretty sure we're going to have to wait until at least pre-season to learn about what their plans are for the new runes.

JaxMoonStealerJun 2, 20172 votes

Read the thread again :p He's talking about how bad the current system is.

SulranaJun 3, 20175 votes

40,000? That's a trivial amount.

I've spent 182,432 IP on runes

LichKing234Jun 3, 20173 votes

jesus christ

PaladinNOJun 3, 20172 votes

Jesus Christ

He won't be needing them Revival quints anymore, as they will be removed soon...

nice tableJun 2, 20174 votes

can't they just give new players the runes without completely fisting the game with some new retardo rune system though?

ChaddyFantomeJun 2, 201721 votes

current rune system is ass. Was more archaic than masteries imo. Dunno why they got reworked before runes tbqh.

NavaruneJun 2, 201720 votes

I would offer that Masteries were a much simpler system to rework.

Voluug13Jun 2, 20172 votes

Because Masteries were free while Runes could technically be bought indirectly with money.

reaperteaserJun 3, 20172 votes

mastery rework was the prototype for the runes reforged

Pierce The VealJun 2, 20174 votes

I spent several hundred thousand, instead of buying all the champions.

You went and spent 40000, the bare minimum. You're not the one who should be crying about having your effort wasted. While I agree it is an annoying as hell system, there are a significant amount of people like me who found it fun and cool to invest in these things. Now we find that our investment could have been gotten for free if we had done like everyone else and just bought champions.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be free. What I'm saying is it's unfair to people like me. Call us stupid for investing in runes. In fact, tell us whatever you want, ultimately it isn't fair that someone like me will have less champions than anyone else for the same amount of effort.

Heck, I'm really excited for the rune updates. It just really sucks that I only get to have 40% of the IP I spent over the years (the amount spent on champs). As a person who doesn't get to play a lot, it will take me probably 3 more years to get it back/buy all the remaining champions.

Skins ProjectJun 2, 20172 votes

Dude.

They said there would be compensation in some form or another.

Pierce The VealJun 3, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skins Project,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aR024Npe,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2017-06-02T23:03:36.722+0000)

Dude.

They said there would be compensation in some form or another.

Better not be an icon or god so help me...

Skins ProjectJun 3, 20173 votes

I'd assume it's in the form of the hextech crafting, ofc that's just an assumption.

DarkRitualJun 2, 20172 votes

You missed the core intent of the post. OP doesn't care if he gets anything back, he's glad new players won't have to go through all the BS grinding for runes like we all had to. Getting back anything is a bonus, and the game overall will end up better for newer players and those who can't play 30 games a week to get "proper" rune pages for multiple playstyles.

Pierce The VealJun 3, 20175 votes

{quoted}

You missed the core intent of the post. OP doesn't care if he gets anything back, he's glad new players won't have to go through all the BS grinding for runes like we all had to. Getting back anything is a bonus, and the game overall will end up better for newer players and those who can't play 30 games a week to get "proper" rune pages for multiple playstyles.

I didn't miss it.

My argument is he isn't the special guy who spent a ton on runes. 40k is nothing. There are some of us who don't own half (or 30% in my case, I own only 70%) the champions after playing since 2012 or at least several years. This is because we invested in runes. My point is OP doesn't speak for us. I would love runes to be free, but I probably would quit League if I lost 70% of the effort I put into it just like that.

Rıots Bad ClientJun 3, 20174 votes

How about, For every rune page we own. We get random champion unlock..

~~This way we can kill Aram accounts~~

Automated RivenJun 3, 20172 votes

If you have all champions then random skins??

RocketRelmJun 3, 20173 votes

You ever get to a point where you don't know the OP's name, read the post, scroll down, and then read the OP's name as it's highlighted in one of their comments?

I have.

Smitty ManjensenJun 2, 20172 votes

I don't mind people getting free runes as long as the old players get a compensation. I wasted over 3k hours in this game. If the just go and make them free and say to the old players "lel fk you, you get nothing" I will feel cheated of my time and money, because I did waste a lot of it on this game. You can call me entitled or whatever, but it's simply how I and many others see it. I don't support those who just cry about new players getting them for free without even waiting for Riot to announce the compensation.