@Riot can we PLEASE nerf Shaco?

Cloud273··5 votes·2,766 views

He has a minimum of a 54% win rate everywhere from gold on up. These numbers in the link below are from last week but honestly if you look at the overall numbers over the past few months it's not that much different. Shaco's kit is just way too strong and offers too much. His deceive is basically a better version of Ezreal's arcane shift. Not only does it allow him to instantly reposition, but it also grants stealth and untargetability when he uses it. The stealth traps last way too long, the cc is too strong, they have too much hp, and the fact that he can place them while stealthed is straight up bullsh*t. Honestly every part of Shaco's kit is just too good and offers almost no counterplay. Don't know what else to say about it.

http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

24 Comments

Butterwood5 votes

I understand the frustration from anyone who hasn't played with Shaco before. He's not an easy champion to play, but people that are great at it are incredibly frustrating to face. Here's the thing - while his kit is pretty strong, his base stats are crap. He can't 1v1 against many junglers early and it takes a decent amount of gold to make him dangerous.

I've been playing Shaco for years, and my achilles heel is when I'm facing a team with map awareness. Teams that ward consistently and play conservatively when they don't know where Shaco is force him to rely on farming the jungle, which makes him much less dangerous later on. A 0/0 Shaco at 20 mins might be able to kill a squishy ADC or support caught out, but he'll struggle against anyone else. Plus, his lategame is very reliant on splitpushing and basically jumping to the backline to trade a kill for a death.

Butterwood3 votes

He's not untargetable in stealth. Hooks, grabs, and any AOE still damage him.

Cloud2733 votes

{quoted}

He's not untargetable in stealth. Hooks, grabs, and any AOE still damage him.

When he uses deceive it grants untargetability for like the first second after it's used.

Butterwood5 votes

{quoted}

When he uses deceive it grants untargetability for like the first second after it's used.

That's...not true.

Cloud2732 votes

{quoted}

That's...not true.

Okay I was mistaken it's the ult that grants untargetability. The 'q' is still way too strong though.

MasterDClone3 votes

he is untargetable, but yes he can still get hit by other shit, what being untargetable means is stuff like patheon q can't hit him but stuff like pantheon e can

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

he is untargetable, but yes he can still get hit by other shit, what being untargetable means is stuff like patheon q can't hit him but stuff like pantheon e can

Yea I see Shaco dodge skillshots with his 'q' all the time and it's bullsh*t. This ability is like Ezreal 'e' on steroids.

MasterDClone2 votes

who is talking about shaco's q, i was talking untargetability, dodging with shaco q is different than being untargetable,

Butterwood3 votes

{quoted}

he is untargetable, but yes he can still get hit by other shit, what being untargetable means is stuff like patheon q can't hit him but stuff like pantheon e can

Nope. What you're describing is just invisibility. It's the same thing on Vayne, Kaisa, Khazix, etc. Untargetable is like when Tristana is in the air, or you're in the midst of Kalista's ult, or when Talon is jumping over walls. It means you literally can't be hit with any ability.

Cloud2732 votes

{quoted}

Nope. What you're describing is just invisibility. It's the same thing on Vayne, Kaisa, Khazix, etc. Untargetable is like when Tristana is in the air, or you're in the midst of Kalista's ult, or when Talon is jumping over walls. It means you literally can't be hit with any ability.

No it's not the same thing. Those abilities don't let you INSTANTLY reposition, unlike Shaco's 'q'. Stop spewing this bs.

Butterwood4 votes

{quoted}

No it's not the same thing. Those abilities don't let you INSTANTLY reposition, unlike Shaco's 'q'. Stop spewing this bs.

Ah, the word you're looking for there is a "blink", similar to using flash. His Q is a blink skill that makes him temporarily invisible. It still doesn't make him remotely untargetable.

Cloud2732 votes

{quoted}

Ah, the word you're looking for there is a "blink", similar to using flash. His Q is a blink skill that makes him temporarily invisible. It still doesn't make him remotely untargetable.

Yes I posted above. I was wrong about the q granting untargetability, but he still gets untargetability with his ult.

MasterDClone3 votes

yes for 1/2 a sec, and it's really hard to time because it takes 1/2 second before u get the untargetability

Cðulrophobia2 votes

{quoted}

Yes I posted above. I was wrong about the q granting untargetability, but he still gets untargetability with his ult.

untargetability with his ult which has cast time, and is only untargetable for 0.5 seconds, compared to other champions like:Aatrox (during R) Bard , Camille (instant cast, compared to Shaco's cast time, although it needs enemy champion near), Ekko (instant cast during R), Elise (E which is not even an ultimate, and its a gapcloser too), Evelynn instant R, and i can go on. If you even wan Shaco's "vanish" (different form of untargetability) then look at Zed , MasterYi , RekSai

Tazxzx2 votes

{quoted}

No it's not the same thing. Those abilities don't let you INSTANTLY reposition, unlike Shaco's 'q'. Stop spewing this bs.

I don't think you should rant about champion that you probably haven't ever played in your life lmao xD You are just embarassing yourself. You said that there is no counterplay against him so you are probably low elo player because players like these usually complain about shaco. Oh wait you are unranked YIKES, i don't even know why you are writing this post then. Why the fuck would you write a post that says about champion's win rate when you don't even play ranked? Does it make even sense? It's like making shit without shit.

Butterwood1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you should rant about champion that you probably haven't ever played in your life lmao xD You are just embarassing yourself. You said that there is no counterplay against him so you are probably low elo player because players like these usually complain about shaco. Oh wait you are unranked YIKES, i don't even know why you are writing this post then. Why the fuck would you write a post that says about champion's win rate when you don't even play ranked? Does it make even sense? It's like making shit without shit.

Yeah man, this isn't the way to teach newer players about Shaco. Of course it's going to be frustrating to face champs that have a complicated kit if you don't know how the kit actually works. The way to fix that? Teaching them, not making fun of their rank.

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

Tristana isn't untargetable in the air, and I'm pretty sure I've seen Talon get hooked mid-jump.

A better example would be Fizz E.

MasterDClone3 votes

A post such as this one asking for a shaco nerf, comes in every couple of weeks from a frustrated player. Now i suggest you read up on preseason changes because i feel like he is getting nerfed by a couple of factors. The dark harvest rework will force a early game map presence on shaco which does not work for him if his power spike is when he get dusk blade. With dark harvest significantly weaker for shaco, his damage will be nerfed. Shaco's numbers currently are honestly quite pathetic and i'm not sure how to nerf them further. The boxes take about 2 sec before they detonate meaning you have to place them well for anything to happen, while most champs mid game can 1 hit them any way. Also his kit isn't actually that powerfull but because of how cancer it is to deal with makes it have the illusion of being stronger. In reality shaco's kit is only there to make it easier to abuse items, any strong item shaco can abuse and make it his own power. Now there are a few ways to counter shaco, but most of them are pretty specific to shaco and due to his low pickrate most people don't know them. I'm just guessing you had a bad game against a good shaco, and is now tilted.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

A post such as this one asking for a shaco nerf, comes in every couple of weeks from a frustrated player. Now i suggest you read up on preseason changes because i feel like he is getting nerfed by a couple of factors. The dark harvest rework will force a early game map presence on shaco which does not work for him if his power spike is when he get dusk blade. With dark harvest significantly weaker for shaco, his damage will be nerfed. Shaco's numbers currently are honestly quite pathetic and i'm not sure how to nerf them further. The boxes take about 2 sec before they detonate meaning you have to place them well for anything to happen, while most champs mid game can 1 hit them any way. Also his kit isn't actually that powerfull but because of how cancer it is to deal with makes it have the illusion of being stronger. In reality shaco's kit is only there to make it easier to abuse items, any strong item shaco can abuse and make it his own power. Now there are a few ways to counter shaco, but most of them are pretty specific to shaco and due to his low pickrate most people don't know them. I'm just guessing you had a bad game against a good shaco, and is now tilted.

What's pathetic is you defending someone with a 54%+ winrate. Why does it matter how long it takes the boxes to detonate? Shaco's 'q' lasts way longer than 2 secs, and he can place them while stealthed, so he has PLENTY of time to make sure he doesn't fuk up his box placement.

MasterDClone2 votes

I don't think i ever said you were pathetic so im not sure where this is coming from, also im not defending someone with a 54% winrate although the winrate is boosted by the fact that most people that play the champion are otp, but im defending my main and that is all. You ask why it matters the length of time for the boxes to detonate, early game shaco's q lasts less than 2 sec and that really the only time u use your box for a gank, what's tricky is that you can't place it on top of them because by 2 seconds there gone but if you place further away they have plenty of time to spot it and know that your there allowing them to escape. Generally i try to place it where to anticipate the flash, but most of the time they see it and just avoid it. Box placement isn't about how much time you have it's about where specifically you place and if it can actually detonate on the laner. It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't played shaco because its very specific to him, where there is a delay for the trap as oppose to a caitlyn trap or teemo shroom.

Cðulrophobia3 votes

let me debunk you

stop doubling down on the fact that Shaco has untargetability in stealth, he has none. He can be hit with abilities, not target ones because he's not revealed. Untargetability by LoL Wiki:

Fizz is being untargetable while using Playful Playful. Untargetability refers to units in a state where they are no longer valid targets for auras (e.g. Sunfire Cape item Sunfire Cape), unit-targeted (e.g. Disintegrate Disintegrate), auto-targeted (e.g. Death Lotus Death Lotus), direction-targeted (e.g. Mystic Shot Mystic Shot) and ground-targeted effects (e.g. Pillar of Flame Pillar of Flame), including attacks, abilities, items and summoner spells. Becoming untargetable is not a form of invulnerability, and units will still suffer the effects of active applied damage over times (e.g. Ignite Ignite), delayed detonations (e.g. Time Bomb Time Bomb) and tethers (e.g. Drain Drain).

The act of becoming untargetable will also interrupt any effects that have already acquired the unit as a target (e.g. an oncoming basic attack will fizzle) as well as causing AI-controlled units (e.g. turrets and minions) to acquire a new target (also known as "dropping aggro").

The telegraph from KarthusSquare Karthus' Requiem Requiem will be placed on untargetable enemies, although the damage itself is classified as auto-targeted effect that occurs at the end of the channel time.

**To date, Realm Warp Realm Warp and Wish Wish are the only abilities that can target an untargetable unit. **

he has below 54% winrate in leagues below plat, 53% at gold and 59% at masters (keep in mind the amount of players in masters, while in challenger he has winrate of 51%) in some elos he has 50% or below winrate.

Shaco has been getting nerfed alot of patches, with indirect nerfs yet we keep the winrate on over 52% for past few months. No matter how hard we get hit with nerfs.

"Shaco's kit is just way too strong and offers too much" sure, thats why it has no damage in kit.

Shaco's deceive isn't a better version of Ezreal's arcane shift, Arcane shift hits invisible targets, has bigger range, a lilttle bit longer cast, but it gets reduced with each skillshot hit, also it proc's new Ez W (unless you want to argue that Ezreal is an assassin and needs invisibility) if we remove invisibility, it's just a small blink.

Stealth traps aren't too long, infact they're 60 seconds, and todays wards are 120. Jhin's traps are longer. CC isn't strong, look at other Fear abilities, Fiddlesticks and Nocturne use point and click fear, with even more reliable usage. Fiddle's fear is longer and has no cast time, Nocturne has 2 seconds before fearing the enemy, but he can jsut stick to the target and guarantee the fear. Shaco's box fears in AoE, but it arms for 2 seconds. You can do alot in those 2 seconds (destroy, walk away, use red trinket etc.)

They don't have too much hp, infact they have 550 at level 18, without any armor, single aa destroys it.

the fact that he can place them while stealthed isn't bullshit, since it reveals shaco for a split second which gives away his position. item 3364 Oracle lens, reveals Shaco's boxes and makes them active, which leads to their 5 second lifespan.

You know who has less counterplay? the same Ezreal you just said, for me it's impossible to assassinate a guy with Tabis, GA and Iceborn Gauntlet because he has 170+ Armor casually. While still maintaing 600 damage per Q and Auto, with a safe ass range.

DarkwaveXaldin2 votes

dunno if you are trolling or just stupid but almost every Good Shaco is at least a main or otp (or was thx to riot hate). Since you like Ez e so much lets compare the abilites:

Arcane Shift MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 / 280 (+ 50% bonus AD) (+ 75% AP) COST: 90 MANA COOLDOWN: 19 / 17.5 / 16 / 14.5 / 13

Arcane Shift's homing projectile can target and hit stealthed units and units hidden in fog of war.

vs

Deceive PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 (+ 40% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP) COST: 60 MANA COOLDOWN: 16 / 15.5 / 15 / 14.5 / 14 -2,5 sec if you aa something with it 1.5 / 2.25 / 3 / 3.75 / 4.5 INVISIBILITY (after a 0.125-second delay)

Shaco e 8 sec cd PHYSICAL DAMAGE:» 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 / 155

First of Shaco Q and E has barely any base dmg and its Ad-Dmg means it will deal even less since all champions have a higher base armor then mr.

205 base AD-dmg from the main Dmg abilites sounds broken to you?

If you wanna complain about Shacos untargetablty take a look at Yi &Zed&Kayn or Xayah. Every single one of those is even longer untargetable.

Instead of complaining try him out and see how much sucess you have, you will EASILY see how to ward agaist him,thats also the reason why Shaco is so successful in the hands of Otps because most solo queue players barely ward.

Shacos main dmg is from Items and runes right now and those will be nerfed soon enough you crybaby.

usefulshaco2 votes

You are ridicoulus, check this pls:

http://na.op.gg/champion/shaco/statistics/jungle

Shaco is tier 4 with 47% wr right now, if you are silver and dont ward all assasins will desrtoy you, so pls stop post this ridicoulus posts and learn a bit to play, shaco is nerfed because sh is nerfed, sudden impact is nerfed, electrocute is nerfed, duskblade is nerfed. Pls stop doing this...

Shacophobic1 votes

they have too much hp

You serious?

Don't know what else to say about it.

Just say nothing. You are crying about Shaco, just because you lost 1 normal draft game against him?

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/match/na/2894352251#participant3

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