So, my friend was playing Fiora vs Shen today (I was spectating), and I noticed that his 'w' (the move that stops auto attacks) doesn't block her passive. She was still able to hit the vitals (which last time i checked, she needs to auto attack to do). What's the point of having a move that blocks auto attacks when it doesn't even work?
AlwaysByMySide12 votesJust tried this out.
Fiora can't proc vitals with Q or normal AAs. Idk if riposte would work, probably would.
Hello Georgie7 votesBecause that would mean Fiora's passive would have some counterplay
elon wątroba1 votesBut pantheon's shield counters it :D.
Corriandr7 votesLast time I played Fiora vs Shen, his dodge area prevented me from hitting vitals using both auto's and my Q. This I remember distinctly as I was quite annoyed by it. As this was never changed in patch notes, it is quite possible that this is an unintended bug that may have been a one-off your friend experienced or was unintentionally introduced in the latest patch.
DeathBurst5 votes(which last time i checked, she needs to auto attack to do)
Check again. She can procs Vitals with both her Lunge and her Riposte, which are not basic attacks.
The Governer2 votesLunge applies on-hit effects which signify the ability functioning as an auto attack (except against towers of course). See Ezreal's Mystic Shot, for example.
DeathBurst1 votesIt's not as simple. Some spells applies some on-hits, others applies all on-hit but are still not considered as basic attacks, and a few spells are fully considered as basic attacks.
The Governer1 votesIf what you said is the case, that's pretty much the problem of consistency.
All abilities that apply on-hit effects are either enhanced basic attacks or just pure abilities that don't hit towers like Ezreal's Mystic Shot. They should all be treated the same way. Ezreal's Mystic Shot can be blocked by Teemo's blind, Shen's W and Pantheon's passive or anything for that matter. Fiora's Q should be able to do so too.
DeathBurst1 voteswhat about Vayne condemn or Vi dash that apply a stack of their respective passive? Treating such a spell with hard CC on it as a basic attack, it's probably not logical either.
Kindred's Wolf attacks also applies her passive %HP damage. Etc. Etc.
The Governer1 votesNope, these cases are different.
In Vayne and Vi and Kindred's cases, they apply specific on-hit effects (Vayne's E apply her W only and Vi's Q applies her W only for example). Some of them apply pseudo and specific on-hit effects that actually function like spell effects (Ekko's passive for instance). They don't apply all on-hit effects (If they do it'd be broken).
My examples like Fiora's Q and Ezreal's Q apply all sort of on-hit effects from items and should be affected by effects that affect auto-attacks (apart from attack speed).
DeathBurst1 votesWell, the only other spell apart from Fiora and Ezreal that comes to mind and apply on-hits and that is NOT a basic attack enhancer is Yasuo's Q. And it is not blocked by Teemo's Blind and Jax's Dodge, though it is blocked by Panth's Block (according to the Wikia).
Is there any other similar spell that applies all on-hit that I'm forgetting?
EDIT: oh, of course, there is GP's pistol. But it's explicitly stated to work like a (melee) basic attack in the tool-tip, if I remember correctly?
The Governer1 votesYasuo's Q is the basically the only exception from abilities that apply all on-hit effects from items (even then it's only blind and dodge that don't affect his Q). Other abilities can miss (under the effect of blind), be blocked or dodged. Fiora's Q is intended to and should be treated the same.
Edit: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/On-hit_effect#Abilities_that_apply_on-hit_effects This list, whilst not updated, should have some sort of information.
MasterSomething2 votesMight have been a spectator glitch or a one time glitch. Nonetheless, Jax dodge, Panth block, and Shen dodge should prevent her from getting the heal off.
Death by Glamour1 votesI was sure it did
Was this during her ult or just her passive
Cloud27314 votes[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cmrOaykd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-20T02:01:33.588+0000)
I was sure it did
Was this during her ult or just her passive
I don't think it was during her ult. But honestly does it matter? Either way she needs to auto attack to proc her passive, which Shen is supposed to be able to block.
Death by Glamour3 votesI played him earlier vs a fiora and was sure that i was blocking her q with my wl
Edit i agree with you that it should block her qs
RyzeRework1 votesI don't think it was during her ult. But honestly does it matter? Either way she needs to auto attack to proc her passive, which Shen is supposed to be able to block.
Usually when its like that it will block the auto attack damnage but it should still hit hit the vital
EvilRabbitt1 votesShe can proc it with riposte, and lunge is a spell that applies on hit that also has a longer range than the radius of the W. Assuming the spaghetti code works the way I think it does, that means it procs the Vital via Spell but doesn't apply the on-hit.
67chrome1 votesWhat's the point of having a move that blocks auto attacks when it doesn't even work?
Riot's spaghetti logic at work.
Blind's and Pantheon's shield also suffer from this pretty substantially. The blinds on Teemo and Quinn don't block on-hit effects, don't prevent CC from things like Xin'Zhao's AA-based delivery system, and they don't even block the bonus damage from certain empowered auto-attacks like Nasus's Q: while other empowered auto-attacks are blocked. It's really difficult to know exactly what you're blocking and what you can't, even 5 minutes after reading the LoL Wiki article on what the fudge they do.
Ironically, pre-rework Fiora's Riposte also suffered pretty heavily from this: so Riposting a Teemo's AA would still leave you poisoned.
For whatever reason Jax's Counterstrike has been less susceptible to such spaghetti logic.
That said: one aspect of True Damage has usually been it completely bypasses any sort of defense: not just limited to armor and magic resistance, but also %damage reduction bonuses, Ninja Tabi, and %damage lowering debuffs like Urgot's passive as well as Exhaust. Still: spell-shields, Zhonya's, and Invulnerability to still mitigate true damage.
That logic might also be applied to 100% evasion. It might not. LoL wiki isn't showing any info one-way or the other on their Dodge, Jax, or Shen pages and I don't care enough to keep checking.
AlwaysByMySide2 votesRiot's spaghetti logic at work.
Blind's and Pantheon's shield also suffer from this pretty substantially. The blinds on Teemo and Quinn don't block on-hit effects, don't prevent CC from things like Xin'Zhao's AA-based delivery system, and they don't even block the bonus damage from certain empowered auto-attacks like Nasus's Q: while other empowered auto-attacks are blocked. It's really difficult to know exactly what you're blocking and what you can't, even 5 minutes after reading the LoL Wiki article on what the fudge they do.
Ironically, pre-rework Fiora's Riposte also suffered pretty heavily from this: so Riposting a Teemo's AA would still leave you poisoned.
For whatever reason Jax's Counterstrike has been less susceptible to such spaghetti logic.
That said: one aspect of True Damage has usually been it completely bypasses any sort of defense: not just limited to armor and magic resistance, but also %damage reduction bonuses, Ninja Tabi, and %damage lowering debuffs like Urgot's passive as well as Exhaust.
That logic might also be applied to 100% evasion. It might not. LoL wiki isn't showing any info one-way or the other on their Dodge, Jax, or Shen pages and I don't care enough to keep checking.
Pantheon's shield and blinds also stop Fiora from proccing vitals, as well as Nasus's Q. They also stop Teemo from applying poison, and any on-hits I've seen.
Oh, and Quinn doesn't have a "blind" in the same vein as Teemo. It just obstructs your vision.
Jasiwel1 votesHer Q is technically an ability/spell, not an AA. If she's hitting your Vitals (using her passive) with her Q, then it'll most likely not be blocked by your W.
Old Fiora's Parry is similar in that it could not block Wukong's Q, Garen's Q, and other similar abilities.
GenghisEmo2 votesis it an "enhanced aa". Cause if it is, it is supposed to still block it.
Or does it only count as ability? Cause then it will work.
Or is it brooken? im really curious about that.
Sinlaire2 votesMy bet is that her auto attack procs the Ability from Fiora having struck the point. Shen's W blocks the attack damage from the strike, but the ability is still activated.
as in the game reads that Fiora struck Shen where her passive was and even though the damage of her attack was negated her attack was still registered and activated the passive. so really all she's getting is the heal and the minor piece of true damage.
FastAsHeck1 votesa couple of patches ago the dodge, blind and block mechanics were updated to correctly negate any effects from the autoattacks blocked/dodged. Shen wasn't updated a the time though, and fiora's vitals aren't an on-hit effect. My guess is spaghetti code.
GenghisEmo1 votesInteresting, so still counts as ability?
Or, at least for now.
We will see if it was intended, or Riot might patch in 2 patches from now.
But good to know.
Thank you.
Serika Zero1 votesyou could block Garen's Q. The damage from it. You wouldn't block the CC though.
That's the only reason Fiora could survive vs Renekton. You had to parry his empowered W and avoid the x3 damage it does. Sadly, predicting your opponent and using "skills" is to undervalued. So we decided to give Fiora CC reflect, block everything ability, %max hp true damage and the mobility of Riven >.>
Br4ndon1 votesProbably an oversight or bug.
4th3t0s1 votesbecause half-assed spaghetti coding; Jax has had the same gimmicky problem with his e since they removed dodge runes.
Count Zubat1 votesNow that's bullshit, when you have a move that blocks literally everything and at the same time don't give a fuck about other people's blocking moves. Fucking fencing bitch.
Ludovico1 votesWell it´s Fiora.
PDE5 Inhib1 votesWas her her AAs or was it her Q that was procing it? (I don't think her Q is an AA is it?)
UnderscorBunnies1 votesI'm pretty sure it didn't do damage, just gave her the speed boost and the heal. And before you ask why that's possible, I think it's a better Idea if you ask why people can lifesteal of invulnerable players, or when they're blinded, or when Fiora is blocking their damage with a parry.
Melledoneus1 votesI've played this matchup many times. As a Shen, you can deny Fiora her vitals if she tries to Lunge (Q) or auto attack for it. Should she use riposte to try to proc the vital, it will activate. Shen's W blocks Fiora's attempts to proc vitals, which I am glad for.
Now, if only Shen's W blocked Ezreal's Q...
EvilRabbitt1 votesThe vitals are a spell effect, procced when Fiora hits them. Fiora isn't hitting Shen, just the vitals. I agree that's pretty stupid and should only get procced by her W if you're in the invuln. Spaghetti code wins again?
The Governer1 votesShen's W should take her Lunge into account and Vitals are actually on-hit effects, not spell effects...
EvilRabbitt1 votesThat's weird.... I'd think if W procs the vitals then it'd be spell. Guess I learned something. :) thanks
La Barbotte1 votescause fiora doesnt care, shes gonna hit you whole family witht his on the next patch
Qchan1 votesFrom what I remember, it does block the vitals passive. Unless they changed it from the last time I played Shen into a Fiora.
Fiora can still proc vitals with her dash and her parry though, so it might have been that.
Whut Thuh 1 votesits not so much an on hit effect as it is a triggered ability. you can proc vitals with her w so its not neccesarily jsut auto's and q that proc her passive
Hawkefire1 votesI am pretty certain it is both a bug and probably an oversight.
WadeWilson13371 votesBecause Fiora is supposed to be busted in every way you can think of. Yet Shen W blocks empowered autos such as Blitzcrank E which i find silly to be honest.
Cloud2731 votesBecause Fiora is supposed to be busted in every way you can think of. Yet Shen W blocks empowered autos such as Blitzcrank E which i find silly to be honest.
I know people will have different opinions about this, but I don't think it's silly at all. Shen is supposed to be a defensive champ. That's his thing. Whether it's a regular auto attack, empowered auto, etc I think he should be able to block it. And his defensive abilities aren't that great. I mean, everything his 'w' can do spell shield abilities can do better? "You can block empowered auto attacks? Well guess what? I can block EVERYTHING!" Please tell me. Why is an assassin like Nocturne allowed to have better defensive abilities than Shen (the tanky, defensive champ)?
WadeWilson13371 votesNocturne is a literal one use. Any spell can pop it, whereas shen is on a timer
NeoScout1 votesit should
Matsoman1 votesIt's the same with 
blind, the physical damage doesn't go, but the true damage and heal does.
Papa Slothy1 votesI think it counts as an ability so the initial auto damage that proc'd it won't but the actual true damage will
