It would be just like Cinderhulk, and it would make more sense imo. I know a lot of people have complained about this in the past (myself included), but I would like to just ask Riot what they think without complaining or criticizing. I just want to know if there have been discussions and what the reasoning for Sunfire always being active is. Thanks!
LilxPaprika2 votesits so tanks who have crappy clear can clear
Anraton3 voteswell they can just hit a creep and are in combat ... the point is if you have sunfire, you auto aggro camps if you pass them
gorenzel1 votesI just don't see a huge downside to aggro'ing those camps. They're not going to get much damage off before you walk away. My biggest problem I run into is getting turret aggro when an enemy champ gets too close. It would be cool to be able to toggle it, but I can also just accept it as a drawback.
Gnart Even Close1 votesI just don't see a huge downside to aggro'ing those camps. They're not going to get much damage off before you walk away. My biggest problem I run into is getting turret aggro when an enemy champ gets too close. It would be cool to be able to toggle it, but I can also just accept it as a drawback.
it's more like if you're clearing a ward from the baron pit and baron hits you early on. he does a lot of damage. or if it was rift herald, etc. and even then it is annoying and it can give away your position sometimes
Gnart Even Close1 votesits so tanks who have crappy clear can clear
you can hit the minion to activate the passive and then clear like usual. and minions will automatically aggro you anyways if you're the only nearby thing they can hit
LilxPaprika1 votesoh ya sure i see so only vs jungle creeps unless you attack them. its not that big a deal but sure I'd ask for this but so many other things I'd rather see first.
masterdragon4811 votesI think its fair to allow for the difference between cinderhulk and sunfire cape because cinderhulk is the tank jungling item and you would naturally be forcing them out of ward clearing, etc just for playing in the jungle if cinderhulk aggro'd immediately. Sunfire, on the other hand, is a conscious decision to purchase and other options for health and armor exist (for top laners). So while it is inconsistent, I believe it is fair.
Gnart Even Close1 votesI think its fair to allow for the difference between cinderhulk and sunfire cape because cinderhulk is the tank jungling item and you would naturally be forcing them out of ward clearing, etc just for playing in the jungle if cinderhulk aggro'd immediately. Sunfire, on the other hand, is a conscious decision to purchase and other options for health and armor exist (for top laners). So while it is inconsistent, I believe it is fair.
i think it would be nice to be consistent, and cinderhulk got changed for a reason. also, just because there are other options doesn't mean that it shouldn't be changed. i do see where you're coming from though
masterdragon4811 votesThe difference is that when the decision is made to get sunfire cape, you are actively choosing to push and you are prioritizing that damage over the other things sunfire gives you. When you get cinderhulk, you aren't making the same decision; you are completing the only item available (unless the tank jungle can get away with runeglaive; that seems to be the theme now, but wasn't when cinderhulk was changed).
I actually think its better that it is inconsistent in this case. I also disagree with "just because there are other options doesn't mean that it shouldn't be changed", there are a lot of different armor items that do fill similar roles. Sunfire, Deadmans, and Randuins all have their strengths and their weaknesses; if they didn't one would be drastically better and picked up all of the time over the others (like deadmans was a few patches ago).
Gnart Even Close1 votesThe difference is that when the decision is made to get sunfire cape, you are actively choosing to push and you are prioritizing that damage over the other things sunfire gives you. When you get cinderhulk, you aren't making the same decision; you are completing the only item available (unless the tank jungle can get away with runeglaive; that seems to be the theme now, but wasn't when cinderhulk was changed).
I actually think its better that it is inconsistent in this case. I also disagree with "just because there are other options doesn't mean that it shouldn't be changed", there are a lot of different armor items that do fill similar roles. Sunfire, Deadmans, and Randuins all have their strengths and their weaknesses; if they didn't one would be drastically better and picked up all of the time over the others (like deadmans was a few patches ago).
sunfire not drawing jungle camp aggro =/= OP... also, many champions are core sunfire cape users and kind of need it to function. they shouldn't be punished for it in this way. there are choices for jungle items as well, as you just showed. you can adapt based on how well you're doing and what your team comp needs to choose if you want cinderhulk or either warrior or runic echoes. the unwanted aggro from jungle monsters is quite annoying and it doesn't really affect balance in any way. this change is almost exclusively quality of life, and i don't think there's ever a circumstance in which qol changes should be rejected from consideration.
compare sunfire to zz'rot. if zz'rot randomly drew camp aggro, wouldn't it be annoying? but it doesn't. that's not part of its design. and it's not supposed to be part of sunfire cape's design either. that's why i'm trying to ask riot about why sunfire cape still works the way it does
Slamurai Jack1 votesSunfire Cape is too strong as it is.
Gnart Even Close1 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xIskGjkZ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-03-23T09:27:50.665+0000)
Sunfire Cape is too strong as it is.
well this isn't a buff, it's a power neutral quality of life change...
J E B A ł T E D1 votesHe feels that if it's not a nerf, then it HAS to be a buff. it HAS to be and there are no exceptions, even if it is neither a buff or a nerf
Gnart Even Close1 votesHe feels that if it's not a nerf, then it HAS to be a buff. it HAS to be and there are no exceptions, even if it is neither a buff or a nerf
yeah, i don't think a lot of people understand that concept of power neutral changes
Slamurai Jack1 votesHow is this power neutral? It's adding extra functionality to the item that it didn't previously have with no drawbacks. That's a buff by the very definition of the word.
Gnart Even Close1 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xIskGjkZ,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2016-03-23T12:17:49.145+0000)
How is this power neutral? It's adding extra functionality to the item that it didn't previously have with no drawbacks. That's a buff by the very definition of the word.
it has no difference when in combat. when fighting anything, there is no change. it is not a buff in any way, shape, or form. there's no extra functionality, and why would there be a drawback? it's literally just having it disabled sometimes
Slamurai Jack1 votesWhy would you want it disabled sometimes unless that was of benefit to you? Face it, it's a buff. Maybe not a particularly large one, but QoL buffs are still buffs.
Gnart Even Close1 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xIskGjkZ,comment-id=00030000000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-23T14:06:51.004+0000)
Why would you want it disabled sometimes unless that was of benefit to you? Face it, it's a buff. Maybe not a particularly large one, but QoL buffs are still buffs.
it's not a change to power in combat, like a change to stats or gold cost would be. it's a change to when it's active, similar to cinderhulk. qol buffs make something work more consistently the way they are supposed to, for example not attracting jungle camp aggro. this can make a difference in the damage you take, or show the direction you are escaping in, which would be a tiny buff. but my point is there would be no change in combat. it would merely be a change in avoiding combat. you could argue it's a buff, but the scope of it is almost insignificant. it's like removing the shadow indicators for zed. they don't increase his power, but they make him more consistent since you know what you're getting
Slamurai Jack1 votesBeing able to walk up and hit a tower without immediately drawing aggro is a pretty significant benefit, I would say. It would also make tower diving with your jungler far easier for the same reason.
Gnart Even Close1 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xIskGjkZ,comment-id=0003000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-23T14:45:00.411+0000)
Being able to walk up and hit a tower without immediately drawing aggro is a pretty significant benefit, I would say. It would also make tower diving with your jungler far easier for the same reason.
hitting a tower counts as in combat... if you sit by without hitting anything or getting hit by anything while under tower, then it will not trigger. but that means you're not hitting anything. no hitting the tower, no clearing minions, no poking under tower, nothing. hitting a tower while near someone will still draw aggro, which is pretty annoying, but that would not change with being disabled out of combat...