Climbing is now the most "abuse the meta" we've ever seen.

Snowman Arc··19 votes·9,806 views

The meta was always something that people talked about. Meta is basically the strongest picks you can have in order to win games and like it or not, a meta will ALWAYS exist. It's almost impossible to achieve perfect balance, therefore there will always be strong picks and weak picks, therefore, climbing elo will be more successful when following the strong, meta picks. This was always the case, and this will always be the case.

This time around, though, it seems like we have moved away from the typical meta thing, where you had slightly more chances to win, to a point where there are certain picks that are almost guaranteed free elo, and that's because they have little to no counterplay.

Let's see Talon, for example. Smite mid Talon is one of the most broken things ever. Not because of his damage, he never got buffed recently or anything. It's just how he works right now. He can have insane XP gains, with no counterplay. As a melee champion, he has superior waveclear both in lane and in the jungle to almost in other pick. He can start raptors level 1 and pop into lane level 2 during the first wave, spam his waveclear, then proceed to jungle again for fast levels and gold. This has close to ZERO counterplay. You can even ward his raptors, and it will won't do much, since he can start wolves. The fact that he only pops into lane to push out the wave, and then leaves again makes it so that there is almost zero chance for the enemy laner to try and stop him, especially seeing how his waveclear tools are far superior to almost any other laner.

Similar to Talon are other picks that can utilize Smite in the mid lane, like Ekko, Taliyah, Aatrox etc. You can make cases like "but these champions are bad later in the game, they get outscaled", but it DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. I played normal draft games picking Talon for the first time in platinum elo, and I stomped the early game. My team got so many huge advantages that late game was only just a myth.

This makes it so that this tactic is almost free elo. As long as the smite player doesn't fuck up their execution on correctly killing raptors and then pushing lanes and having good back times, it doesn't matter what the enemy does. The smite champion will just hit level 6 before anyone else, then proceed to heavily zone you out of cs in lane and roam the entire map. Almost zero counterplay. Even when warding off ganks, they still apply insane pressure, forcing one champion to be glued into mid lane, while they roam around.

There never was such a thing. Apart from certain cases where champions were indeed broken (Runeglaive Ezreal, 5.18 Darius), we have never seen anything like this. All the other cases were temporary number mistakes, and were hot-fixed pretty soon. The smite thing won't be looked at for a long time, and only after someone hits #1 in China and makes a Reddit post about how he boosted their platinum friend into Masters.

I'm not really complaining about it, I will probably just abuse this to gain free elo. As it stands right now, with all the coinflip matchmaking and stuff, I can only resort into such tactics to gain elo, where I know that my good effort will pay off. The thing is that most people don't enjoy that, and I would also certainly want to get my elo through actual interaction with the enemy as well.

36 Comments

Duskz1013 votes

THESE ARE STATS: Champion.gg

Talon - Plat winrate 52% - Silver 49% win rate.

Ekko - Plat 50% - Silver 50%.

Taliyah - Plat 51% - Silver 49%.

Aatrox - Plat 46% - Silver 49%

Nothing about these numbers show a "free-lo" champ. It seems like your argument is just based on your feelings? Is there any stats you want to provide to further back up your point? People need to stop posting things they THINK is "truth".

Snowman Arc4 votes

Those statistics do not show Talon or Ekko when played with Smite. They show the general case. I'm specifically talking about the smite variation. Also, people still need to execute the strat correctly. The only start figuring it out, which means that most people just pick on it now and experiment with it. Just wait for when it becomes more popular and people get it down correctly.

Duskz1011 votes

So, maybe, you should have posted this in the forums with a "My opinion is..." instead of stating it like its a factual thing? If there was a significant shift with them taking smite and getting "freelo" (As you put it), it would show in their win rates under "Jungler" on Champion.gg. I quickly looked this up, and both Talon and Ekko are sitting around 51-52% win-rate with smite. It's above 50% but HARDLY something to consider "freelo" (a super dramatic term).

Also, if you're mid-laner is taking smite and you don't believe there is any counter play or punishment to that then I got some news for ya'! There definitely is....

This just requires a bit more coordination. It's obvious what their plan is if they have smite, so talk to your jungler about how easy a kill catching them could be. Then what? They're stuck with smite, knowing they'll be hunted if they go to use it. Now, I understand that they can take their own raptors, but this is also punishable if you catch them in the act. Raptors DO damage. You 'pincering' them against raptors can very easily turn into a kill for you. This comes with risks, I know.

Over-all, there is lack of evidence suggesting anything beyond your own experience to state that these picks are "Freelo" picks....

Snowman Arc2 votes

So, all the korean challenger ladder spamming this shit to get to rank 1 are just lucky? Do your research before posting random shit just to try and get in my face.

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

THESE ARE STATS: Champion.gg

Talon - Plat winrate 52% - Silver 49% win rate.

Ekko - Plat 50% - Silver 50%.

Taliyah - Plat 51% - Silver 49%.

Aatrox - Plat 46% - Silver 49%

Nothing about these numbers show a "free-lo" champ. It seems like your argument is just based on your feelings? Is there any stats you want to provide to further back up your point? People need to stop posting things they THINK is "truth".

Don't use champion.gg

Use lolalytics

Unstoppable Monk2 votes

Honestly it has more to do with people sticking to old shit while failing to adapt at all more often than not and failing to respond to that kind of meta. If anything, those people deserve to lose by picking the extremely out of meta, as even off-meta picks are better.

This season if you don't know how to effectively use all of what your champion pick is, you lose as well. I like season 8 more than how shitty season 7 was. Talon can also get reamed badly to the point of being useless. It's eat or be eaten. If you're a beta that just tries to brain autopilot every match and get carried by the team you're gonna lose.

Snowman Arc2 votes

It's really hard to shut down Talon. Even in my first game with him, I managed to do extremely well. Sure, I fucked up some mid-game fights because I do not know his combos and damage all that well, but it goes to show how an extremely inexperienced Talon player can have such a huge effect in the early to mid game, which is the most important part.

It's not about people picking off-meta. You just have no counterplay to this strategy. You can pick Zoe who's strong in mid lane, or Irelia or whatever the fuck else you want, you still won't shut Talon down. The only way to maybe try to stop him is try to take your own raptors and scuttle so that he won't, but that fucks up your jungle pathing and you might end up losing so much more as a jungler.

I said above that I understand the meaning of meta and why it exists and, honestly, why it should exist, because then players who can adapt will climb, and that, to me, is a very important trait to have; adaptability. With that said, every meta had its own counterplay, to an extent at least. I started mid season 5, and at season 6 I started maining Viktor who was strong. Even when he was strong, he still had counterplay through all stages of the game. Season 7 I picked Maokai. He was quite strong, but still had counter play, counterpicks etc. Smite Talon just doesn't have that. It kinda reminds me of why I started playing Janna this season. Her W + Aery + AA combo was so extremely oppressive and had little counterplay in lane, which helped me stomp so many lanes and win games easily. This was also broken, which is why Janna had a crushing 54% win rate. She's nerfed quite a lot now, sitting at around 50,5% winrate I believe, which made me move away from playing her.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xIEWzA2y,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-07-17T00:46:41.628+0000)

It's really hard to shut down Talon. Even in my first game with him, I managed to do extremely well. Sure, I fucked up some mid-game fights because I do not know his combos and damage all that well, but it goes to show how an extremely inexperienced Talon player can have such a huge effect in the early to mid game, which is the most important part.

It's not about people picking off-meta. You just have no counterplay to this strategy. You can pick Zoe who's strong in mid lane, or Irelia or whatever the fuck else you want, you still won't shut Talon down. The only way to maybe try to stop him is try to take your own raptors and scuttle so that he won't, but that fucks up your jungle pathing and you might end up losing so much more as a jungler.

I said above that I understand the meaning of meta and why it exists and, honestly, why it should exist, because then players who can adapt will climb, and that, to me, is a very important trait to have; adaptability. With that said, every meta had its own counterplay, to an extent at least. I started mid season 5, and at season 6 I started maining Viktor who was strong. Even when he was strong, he still had counterplay through all stages of the game. Season 7 I picked Maokai. He was quite strong, but still had counter play, counterpicks etc. Smite Talon just doesn't have that. It kinda reminds me of why I started playing Janna this season. Her W + Aery + AA combo was so extremely oppressive and had little counterplay in lane, which helped me stomp so many lanes and win games easily. This was also broken, which is why Janna had a crushing 54% win rate. She's nerfed quite a lot now, sitting at around 50,5% winrate I believe, which made me move away from playing her.

if all you play is some strong semi no brain champ laning easy shit why do you think you are the word on dealing with difficult matchups?

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Snowman Arc1 votes

What?

JPLangley2 votes

[deleted]

Snowman Arc2 votes

Even that, being quite broken, still had some sort of counterplay. You could still destroy the enemy bot lane before they get to that point, and you could also do that strat yourself as well. The smite thing is just uninteractive and starts from the time minions spawn, so you can't shut it down. You also can't really pick it for yourself, since your options are either pick Talon or Aatrox or Ekko. With Ardent Censer, you had a variety of champions who could abuse it, like Janna, Soraka, Nami, Taric, even mid laners like Orianna, Lux and jungle Nidalee were abusing it, so both teams at least had options to abuse it.

TheCodeisCupCake2 votes

Nobody is obligated to but, can someone give me a link to wtf talon smite is, or type an essay for me. It might be cause I'm low elo but I've never seen this.

Snowman Arc2 votes

I don't have a link, but I can lay out what it does.

Basically, you take Smite + Flash, Electrocute and start with Hunter's Talisman. Before getting to lane and start csing your own minions, you take your raptor camp (or the enemy's, if it's safe to do so), starting with W, smiting the big raptor. It takes one autoattack on each small raptor, 2 Ws, and I believe a couple more AAs and Smite to finish off the camp, granting you level 2. You then pop into lane with exactly one level advantage over the enemy, and you lose, at best, 1 minion. You then have complete lane dominance and control with your level advantage, and all you do from there on is push lane with W, and then leave lane to try and take from camps, preferably from the enemy. If that's not possible (usually is, though), you can take Scuttle Crabs.

Because of Talon's W, pushing the lane is pretty easy and fast and safe. The enemy mid laner can't contest you because you are stronger, and their waveclear is worse, so they can't stop you from roaming and pick up more jungle cs. This will get you to level 6 very quickly, and this means that you can then proceed to roam and snowball your lanes, while destroying your mid laner and the enemy jungler.

Itemization usually involves getting Tiamat first for insanely strong clears, and Mobility Boots for the roaming. You then build into Duskblade etc.

Usually, if you execute this strategy correctly, you should be able to snowball and stomp your games and win them before 20 minutes.

TheCodeisCupCake1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xIEWzA2y,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-07-17T12:17:00.980+0000)

I don't have a link, but I can lay out what it does.

Basically, you take Smite + Flash, Electrocute and start with Hunter's Talisman. Before getting to lane and start csing your own minions, you take your raptor camp (or the enemy's, if it's safe to do so), starting with W, smiting the big raptor. It takes one autoattack on each small raptor, 2 Ws, and I believe a couple more AAs and Smite to finish off the camp, granting you level 2. You then pop into lane with exactly one level advantage over the enemy, and you lose, at best, 1 minion. You then have complete lane dominance and control with your level advantage, and all you do from there on is push lane with W, and then leave lane to try and take from camps, preferably from the enemy. If that's not possible (usually is, though), you can take Scuttle Crabs.

Because of Talon's W, pushing the lane is pretty easy and fast and safe. The enemy mid laner can't contest you because you are stronger, and their waveclear is worse, so they can't stop you from roaming and pick up more jungle cs. This will get you to level 6 very quickly, and this means that you can then proceed to roam and snowball your lanes, while destroying your mid laner and the enemy jungler.

Itemization usually involves getting Tiamat first for insanely strong clears, and Mobility Boots for the roaming. You then build into Duskblade etc.

Usually, if you execute this strategy correctly, you should be able to snowball and stomp your games and win them before 20 minutes.

Thanks a lot man! I thought they nerfed Talon's W btw

Snowman Arc1 votes

I think I saw a nerf on the PBE, but it's not live yet.

LeftyRaydy1 votes

Thats where everyone is wrong there could be better balance if their was more Item Diversity, but because of the lack of item Diversity Items that work well for certain champs define the "meta". Look at AD item choice and why Talon, Zed, Wukong, and others are extremely powerful. Now the Runes and jungle also decides the "meta" as well which Scuttle being so important it is important to have a strong lvl 2 Jungler and keystones being better on certain champions vs others also defines the meta. This is the problem with Generalizing the rune system and not allowing people to create their own runes as done before meaning now things are less diverse thus limiting the number of viable champions. Lack of item diversity and runes are killing so many champions and if there were more items that catered to other champions we would be able to expand the Meta. immobile mages have the same build path basically there is nothing I mean nothing Diverse about them. It is sad I remember when there was so many choices but they made items very specific. Their needs to be better item Diversity hands down.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Well, the smite Talon thing would be the same, regardless of item choices or runes or masteries. You could have old runes and masteries back, and it wouldn't change how Talon executes his early game, and once that happens, it doesn't matter what runes or items you have. You could have 1000 items in the game will huge diversity and it still wouldn't matter, because the champion would just simply hard outpace anyone else to the point that all you can do is maybe sit under tower and maybe weather the storm and hope that Talon fucks up his execution or disconnects.

Maybe the Wukong thing is more manageable in regards of runes or items, but Wukong isn't really that broken. He is just a good assassin.

JuanaBarraza1 votes

Talon never got buffed or anything recently.. How fkn new are you?

Snowman Arc1 votes

Link me his buffs.

TonyTonyMordecai1 votes

He only got buffs damage wise in 8.6, increasing his R ratio and passive bleed base damage at later levels, then after that was a bug fix on his E and range increase on his Q in 8.9 and 8.10.

So in other words, not recently was he buffed or changed in any way. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Talon (go to history tab and scroll down to see patch note changes)

Snowman Arc1 votes

That's what I was referring to. Even with the 8.6 changes calculated in, they still do not really change how his early game strat works anyway.

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

I figured, but I was also trying to back you up since the first responder didn't do his research before commenting

Andevar2 votes

He wasn't directly buffed. He was indirectly buffed. Stormrazor, last whisper revert, support shields, etc.

The biggest thing is probably the Q range buff tbh...that really broke him.

Violet Fields1 votes

Riot: "This game will never be balanced so fuck it, make everything broken and don't even worry about counterplay"

remakoro1 votes

And then we got League of Dota

GrReaper961 votes

I mean thats quite a good tactic. If they execute it well and you fail to adapt to the situation like focusing on shoving waves or getting an early drag with your jug then you just got outplayed. Nothing wrong with that.

Snowman Arc2 votes

It's not as easy as you make it out to be. Very few mid laners can match Talon's waveclear early, and they will likely go out of mana doing so. Also, coordinating with your jungler, in soloQ, just won't happen, and even if it does, it won't help much. The enemy jungler will have to start their own camp and not try to stop you, and the enemy mid laner can only ward raptors to see if you're doing it and try to stop you, to which point you just skip raptors and do wolves instead.

There isn't any counterplay to this. I can only imagine the enemy jungler trying to clear raptors and scuttlers so that you can't take them, but that's still a lot to ask for. Eventually, you get a big lead regardless and you can drive the enemy jungler away.

AR URF1 votes

100% win rate on Quinn in my past 10 games playing her.

big boi edri1 votes

Isn't this already slated to be nerfed next patch with the funneling changes? People with T1/2 jungle items that have 50% more gold than the rest of the team receive less gold from lane minions.

Or I guess the better question would be, will that affect it?

Snowman Arc1 votes

That's where Riot falters way too much. They try to battle a certain thing happening with only a handful of champions by nerfing the entirety of the junglers. What if someone just snowballs insanely hard? Why have to put a cap on how they can play the game and get even stronger? Stupid in my opinion. Also, the real problem is not the gold gain, as much as it is experience. As much as we like to say "do not miss cs" or "I'm 10 cs ahead of the enemy, about 170 gold", this doesn't really amount to anything, at least not anymore. The big game is played with levels and experience. Who can hit level 6 faster and kill the enemy, and then get to free farm lanes, jungle and push towers. Nerfing gold generation slightly won't matter as much, if Riot thinks this is the way to go. The problem is exp gain.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

I agree it's a lot of bullshit, but the most abuse the meta period to climb? Ever? That's a bit of a stretch...

concert clown1 votes

What season would you say abused the meta the hardest? I can't think of a single season besides this one where champions are literally freelo when they are on your team.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Does item 3504 ring any bells?

Snowman Arc1 votes

With Ardent Censer, powerful as it was, at least both teams that the option to pick it up, and it wasn't something that you would get from level 1. You actually had to play out a laning phase and win it, in order to get it faster and start getting advantages. Granted, the advantages were extremely strong, but at least both teams had access to them and they didn't happen from level 1.

Jew Stomper1 votes

I think it's all those youtubers. All they do is release these all caps videos to show off something that someone used in high elo.

Snowman Arc1 votes

If it does work though, it's not just showing off. I mean, they post these videos because it is already working in high Korean challenger. Look at the Taric Yi thing that boosted a lot of players in China, and the effect it had, even in competitive play.

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