Faker's thoughts on matchmaking / KR soloQ.

Snowman Arc··126 votes·25,954 views

If people or Riot don't want to listen to the forums (good reason not to, by the way, but I digress), at least this time, take it from someone who is trustworthy. Everyone's idol, Faker, and Riot's favorite boy, on his stream, shared his thoughts about KR solo Q and how matchmaking has turned out compared to previous seasons. Here are some quoted translated highlights:

Until 2015, queue times were long but matchmaking was balanced. Since 2016, high challengers are getting matched with low masters. So, solo queue ranking is a measure of who is better at carrying the game, not who is better. That's why trying to raise LP is frustrating.

The game becomes less fun the higher you go, I don't know why I play... LoL is supposed to be a team game, it's only fun if you play 5v5 and do stuff with your teammates but everybody treats it like an RPG and plays on their own. Because of the LP difference, it's impossible to synergize with the team. Everybody plays way too differently. The game gets less fun as you raise LP, it's weird. That's why I like the way it was before even if the queue times were long.

Back then, there were fewer games where one side of the map explodes. Starting from challenger, the game is just... [silence]. That's why pros don't try hard in solo queue anymore, it's not helpful practice for competitive matches.

One side always explodes right here [pointing to the botlane]. It's never a 50/50, the game is always one sided. Then what is mid/top/jg? Are we playing League or are we playing slot machines? If other lanes are mismatched, it's still a 1v1 so the difference is not big but because there's two people bot, the gap is too big. How are you supposed to win a game if a 200LP/200LP Masters botlane is matched against an 800LP/800LP Challenger botlane?

That's why when you look at the rankings nowadays, there is a lot of fluctuation. Previously, a player that could hit rank 1 didn't normally fall below rank 50. Because of team luck, the gap increases. In the past, I almost never got matched with Master players. Maybe once every ten games in Challenger. They did this to reduce queue time but because of that this game is no longer fun. Imagine if you were gold but you get four bronze or silver teammates in nine out of ten games, and the same for the enemy team. Do you think that game would be fun to play?

With all those things said, how can Riot still go on and ignore the flawed matchmaking system? It's been quite a long time since the last time I genuinely believed in fair matchmaking. 4/5 games feel like they are already decided in champ select, based on op.ggs. Only one game feels competitive and that's because someone didn't manage to play well enough to get a "small lead" that leads to a huge snowball.

Season 6 flex Q destroyed everything. People got extreme boosts to divisions that they would only dream of, because of the ability to play with a lot of premades, even smurf premade friends, almost deleting any chance of a loss. I "unintentionally" boosted some friends in my attempt to climb myself, and I ended up boosting friends from bronze to gold. BRONZE TO GOLD!! As a player who has played in bronze through platinum elo, I can tell you that the difference between bronze and silver is huge. How is a guy that was bronze for 3 seasons supposed to hang with gold elo? They can't. Guess what. Most people wanted to get to G5 to get the border, and never played another game afterwards to avoid any chance of dropping. Next season, S7, comes along and what to we have? Bronze-caliber players playing soloQ in gold elo! And since the games were becoming coinflips more and more, even that player would get a 4-6 in placements at worst, getting them to what? Silver 4, at worst? A bronze player, even after doing placements is being placed at silver 4 elo!

Fast forward to today, with a little example. I really, REALLY wanted to test how the placement system worked. So I went on a smurf, that ended season 6 as Gold 3, season 7 as unranked. I did 0-10 in placements, and guess what elo I got placed into. SILVER FUCKING 2. An UNRANKED player in the previous season did 0-10 in placements and got placed in SILVER 2! Get a grasp on it.

Which brings me to my next point. Ranks are so fucked up right now. Honestly, Riot needs to do a clean sweep and force players to start over or something, because the amount of players completely out of their elo skill is quite high. Couple that with the fact that Riot matches people with a weird system that somehow considers win rates, MMR etc, the system is flawed, and all that happened for what? So we can have less queue times? Fuck this.

I reached Platinum 3 2 months ago on this account, and then got a huge series of trash matchmaking. I'll let you know, the games I won to get there were actually hard to win. I would win bot lane, but my other lanes wouldn't do so well, so me and my ADC were forced to make plays. Most of those victories were hard-fought. And then, as soon as I hit Plat 3, I get the matchmaking punch in the gut. A long series of games (20 games, 18 losses), where I was getting AFKers (afk at 5 mins), Trolls (Teemo jungle with smite-ignite), extremely bad players that can't hang (the kind of bronze boosted to gold in S6), dropping me all the way to Plat 5, which was the point where I just didn't care about climbing anymore. I lost all the will I had to climb to Diamond and even higher.

As Faker said, pro players treat soloQ like a playground. They don't care at all. They just play to relax, because they know that nothing in soloQ represents, even in the slightest, what happens in pro play. And I'm not saying that soloQ should be like pro play, BUT there are some elemens of soloQ that should apply as good things to be happening in pro play as well.

EDIT: Fixed quoation marks.

164 Comments

Sõna15 votes

Honestly, they should take or have an interview between each professional player's thought/opinions towards the current meta. It doesn't matter whether the opinions are biased or logical. Most important is that they listen to their loyal playerbase..

Risen2915 votes

The post also confirms what I have been suspecting about matchmaking: that because of the coinflip nature of the game's matchmaking its a lot easier to stay near your boosted elo than it should be. Just play conservatively and you've got a 50/50 chance of being carried.

The stupidest thing they ever did was cause you to start at a rank based on your previous seasons rank. That only perpetuates bad players floating around at ranks they shouldnt be at.

astralwit13 votes

Yes and worst of all, the game snowballs unfairly. Turrets are paper, Baron is an autowin and still very easy and quick to take, minions push just because you're ahead, supers are incredibly hard to clear etc. It's all just one big snowball into a win and coming from behind is less about an outplay and more about the enemy team just gifting the game back. It's just not a fair situation. Not only are they ahead in gold, but they get dozens of other advantages that they didn't have to work for. If your team's behind, you just feel useless.

You used to be able to stall games and waveclear well even vs baron minions and supers. You used to be able to be the beacon of hope for your team.... the one player who could hold it together and be tiltproof. You could then come back in S3, S4 and so on. Now, it's like they've just decided: OK, if you get a lead, you just autowin if you're not bad and the enemy team isn't dumb. The next 10 minutes is just a formality. And in case the gold lead wasn't enough, let's give the team with the lead all these other nice advantages not because they earned them, not because it's fair but just to get done with it faster. Turrets should be huge objectives. They should be hard to take and it should be a large part of what the lead means (turret advantages). Now, I can take a turret off 2 kills mid. It's like nothing. It feels way too easy.

Eedat11 votes

Trying to compare Challenger matchmaking to ours is pretty pointless. The difference is there is a drastic difference in the number of players to choose from. There are only 200 Challenger players and obviously not all of them are going to be queued at the same time. In my games people are roughly the same ELO with a duo sometimes throwing things off. For solo queue anyway. Flex is a complete joke

Snowman Arc23 votes

Don't know what elo you're in, but in Plat 5, I get matched with ex Diamonds, Plat 1s, and even Gold 5s quite often.

statelesskiller5 votes

when my account was plat 1 i got matched against low master players sometimes. was actually obnoxiouse

Aimléss2 votes

Lol I get silvers sometimes in my Plat 5 games.

Cenutrio 5 rabos3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0Eh9X0dy,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-05T13:50:52.570+0000)

Don't know what elo you're in, but in Plat 5, I get matched with ex Diamonds, Plat 1s, and even Gold 5s quite often.

Can you prove that? I've climbed from silver 4 this season despite being p1 last one and I've never seen such thing. I eventually get matched with plats with huge streaks that are probably smurfing, but that's just because their mmr is huge compared to their division and the skill gap is the same. I'm sorry but this post doesn't make any sense to me. Challenger and master have always been messy because of its nature. At d1+ the skill gaps are huge, a diamond player is much worse than a master and a master is much worse than a challenger, just like the gap between a d5 and a d1 is as big as a d5 and g5. It doesn't make any sense to apply this to the rest of mortal players. The way the ladder is made prevents people from climbing or decaying with lucky or unlucky streaks, there is already a huge reset every season on the players divisions, that's why you may find ex diamonds in plat, because they just finished their placements and get a much lower rank. Other than that, I agree it's kind of fucked up new players can get placed to high silver without any game knowledge but you gotta keep in mind that there is a shitton of smurfing and boosting in this game, it's the sacrifice they gotta make to avoid this kind of people staying for too long in lower elos.

Mother Soraka2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0Eh9X0dy,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-05T13:50:52.570+0000)

Don't know what elo you're in, but in Plat 5, I get matched with ex Diamonds, Plat 1s, and even Gold 5s quite often.

it depends on what phase of streaks you are in. if you've been winning too many games, you'll be matched with bronze 9 against ex challengur in your next matches. if you lose too many games in a row, the exact opposite thing will happen.

Why? to maximize grinding

BestPudgeNA11 votes

{quoted}

Trying to compare Challenger matchmaking to ours is pretty pointless. The difference is there is a drastic difference in the number of players to choose from. There are only 200 Challenger players and obviously not all of them are going to be queued at the same time. In my games people are roughly the same ELO with a duo sometimes throwing things off. For solo queue anyway. Flex is a complete joke

You don't even have 20 ranked games played and a 31% WR. You're exactly the type of person that throws lower ELO matchmaking way off.

Risen298 votes

This is exactly the conclusion l reached about silver mmr. When I am being paired with bronzes and golds in the same match, as a silver player, the game's outcome is no longer a measure of who is better. Its simply a measure of who is better at hard carrying games 1vs9. Players will fail to climb, not because they arent better at thier role than most people at thier mmr, but simply because they dont play a champion that can carry so hard that your mismatched feeding teammates cant even hold you back.

Normal games are completely unplayable because of this kind of matchmaking, unless you play something that lets you ignore your team's failures and hard carry solo.

Ranked is better in the sense that the distribution of player skill is much tighter. Maybe I am paired with silver 4/3/2 as a silver 3, but not bronze 2 and gold 1 in the same match like I have in normal games.

A game is not a legitmate test of your skill unless everyone in the match is at the same level.

TEA Nietzsche 7 votes

Faker complains about an issue that is specific to the highest level of play.

People take that as proof that their completely unrelated low-elo complaints must be true.

Ahhh.

Snowman Arc9 votes

Such big differences in matchmaking are happening in my games, where Gold 5 players are matched with Plat 1 players. So it relates to my Platinum 5.

Buzzkillington01 votes

Mind backing that up with a print screen? Unless those gold players have 65%+ wr, on a huge winning streak vs players whose mmr dropped so hard that they got demoted from D5 to P1 there is no way that happens. Even in this case it is fair because the mmr between the players is similar so none of what Faker said applies to low elo

Snowman Arc5 votes

I don't think I have a screenie of such a case, I don't really keep such screenies, and I'm on my laptop at the moment so I definitely have none of these here.

But I do remember a point where I was in promos to platinum 4 and I was matched with one gold 4 and one gold 5 player. The enemy team also had something similar. It was late night, so traffic was kinda low, which is why I got that matchmaking. But I'd like to wait 5 more minutes to get a more fair matchmaking or something.

When saying fair, I mean getting matched with players of my caliber, so that I know how I need to play. For example, I won't play support, when I'm matched with lower elo players, because if I pick a carry, I know it will probably be an easy game. I want more stability, so that I know what to expect from my team and my enemies.

Of course, there are cases where matchmaking is making things unfair from a team strength perspective.

Some things that Faker said about mismatched teams applies to all categories with not a lot of playerbase.

Buzzkillington02 votes

Ranks do not matter. Only mmr does. Ranks were added when players looked at their elo number and felt like there was no progression. They are only cosmetic. Who do you think is more likely to win? A gold 5 player with 80% winrate or a plat 4 player with 40% winrate? The gold 5 player is on the top of his game on a winning streak and the plat 4 player is on a massive losing streak and tilted out of his mind. Both have similar mmr. What Faker said applies to extemely high elo where the player base is also extremely small. High challenger players' queue times could go up to 45 minutes. They would frequently play other games like Overwatch between queues to keep viewers entertained in their streams. The matchmaking system will widen the mmr gap to reduce queue times and as a consequence it reduces game quality. The difference between low masters and high challenger is insane. Nothing compared to low gold and low plat.

Zeromatsu11 votes

Sorry but why should someone stay in gold 5 when his mmr is that of a plat+?

THIS is one of the reasons why riots matchmaking sucks. Does one win- or loss-streak mean you are better/worse than a whole tier above/below you? I doubt it. It happens to everyone.

And if your mmr is THAT good, why won't you simply put them into the rank they deserve? Why bother with promos?

The matchmaking system will widen the mmr gap to reduce queue times and as a consequence it reduces game quality.

Some games have an option to turn this on or off. Battlerite, as an example. You can CHOOSE on your own, if you want to have strict matchmaking (ppl on your skill-lvl) or if you want faster queue times.

Flawless Fetus5 votes

Yup. They need to go back to the older elo system. Back in "the good days" divisions didn't exist. It was purely based on your mmr. I forget the numbers, but something like 1000 was bronze, 1200 was silver, 1500 was gold, 2000 was plat, etc. No divisions. No promos. No hidden mmr. No bullshit. Oh how I miss a ranked system that makes sense.

Leetri2 votes

Keep in mind that Plat 5, Gold 5, Plat 1 and so on has absolutely nothing at all to do with matchmaking. It's based on MMR, meaning that those Plat 5 players could have such a low MMR they're matched with low-to-middle Golds. You have to have substantially lower MMR than your current division to fall down into the lower tier.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Which, again, makes the system stupid. What's the point of having a rank and saying "hey I achieved this", when in reality it doesn't matter?

FOR JUSTICE2 votes

it feels a lot better to say "hey im diamond 2" to "hey im 2410 MMR"

Teemo Gromp3 votes

{quoted}

it feels a lot better to say "hey im diamond 2" to "hey im 2410 MMR"

Nope. When my workmate tells me about his rank and rating in DOTA2, it makes much more sense than this garbage.

Snowman Arc2 votes

They don't really bother in chess. They say Carlsen (the current world champ) is 2890 or something, and that's a number to awe at. The same could be done for League.

Flawless Fetus2 votes

Nope. Let's say 2000 is diamond, and 2500 is masters. Saying, "hey I'm mid diamond" feels every bit as good as saying "hey I'm diamond 2".

Troll for Trump7 votes

Ignoring the queuing issue which can arguably only be applied to extremely high ranks:

LoL is supposed to be a team game, it's only fun if you play 5v5 and do stuff with your teammates but everybody treats it like an RPG and plays on their own. Because of the LP difference, it's impossible to synergize with the team. Everybody plays way too differently.

So, solo queue ranking is a measure of who is better at carrying the game, not who is better. That's why trying to raise LP is frustrating.

Back then, there were fewer games where one side of the map explodes.

One side always explodes right here [pointing to the botlane]. It's never a 50/50, the game is always one sided. Then what is mid/top/jg? Are we playing League or are we playing slot machines? If other lanes are mismatched, it's still a 1v1 so the difference is not big but because there's two people bot, the gap is too big.

There are still multiple parts that apply to everyone.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Well. He goes on to say bot lane blows up because of the elo difference. He says 1v1s are semi okay, because it's one master vs one challenger. Bot lane is two masters vs two challenges so they get crushed. If you're ignoring the extremely high tanks, then the bit you selected also gets ignored. Lol. He specifically said bot lanes explodes because there are two players with a giant elo lead - because of the "extremely high ranks" matchmaking.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Well. He goes on to say bot lane blows up because of the elo difference.

He says the elo difference affects all lanes, but that it especially affects bot lane. His point is that bot is too impactful compared to other roles.

His main point about that isn't that mismatching is the sole cause of bot lanes winning/losing, it's that bot lane has too much sway.

This is something you've seen repeated over and over again basically everywhere.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Every time the complaint is stupid, though. "How come two people have more of an impact than one?". Uhhh. Because theirs two of them? Is support worth more than jungle? Nope. Is adc worth more than jungle? Nope. Is support and adc worth more than jungle? Of course. Why wouldn't they be. Like wise, mid+jungle is worth more than the adc. Lol. Two players should have ~twice as much impact as one player, no?

Troll for Trump2 votes

It's mostly complaints to the ADC itself and how centered the game is around them. Support is basically dedicated to being the ADC's slave ("ward slave"). The complaint isn't about two people having more impact than one, it's really that the game is just too heavily revolved around ADCs.

There's no rule saying supports have to help ADCs. Why can't a meta exist where the support lanes with a mid laner or top laner or jgler? Why does the ADC so heavily outclass the other laners?

There is also little reason for Riot to further enforce this type of meta with things such as a weaker bot lane turret or making drag more important (before Herald was introduced as compensation for top lane).

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Idk. Support are in charge of winning bot lane. Supports are the reason why adcs seem oppressive. Adc's were annoying, but not super problematic until supports began receiving just as much gold as every other character in the game - that's when adcs became oppressive. When supports got "normal" levels of gold. I stopped playing adc near the end of last season because the game was decided by the support/jg/mid. I consider myself an adc main, but I hopped over to jg and got out of plat and into diamond pretty quickly after that. This season, I decided to go mid and hit diamond in a couple of weeks in solo/duo. Adc's are strong, sure. But the narrative that they decide the game is silly - to me at least. I shifted away from my favorite role, adc, because I felt like I had no impact and began to climb much faster playing roles I was only semi-familiar with. Adcs are deceptively strong because of supports. Supports allow the adcs to do what they do - without a solid support, the adc will get his dick beat in. Lol. Jg/mid, however, have the ability to solo carry games.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree here? Lol.

Troll for Trump1 votes

I feel like you forgot a certain lane in that list. That same lane makes me pretty biased lol.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Certain top laners do. Top is just a shell of what it used to be. If you're not Camille, Irelia, or Jax you're trolling. Lol. Not really, but still.

Troll for Trump1 votes

No, even they don't carry. Top lane, by design is just ass unless you have a champ that heavily outscales everyone else.

If u played those champs jgl, you'd have a higher chance of carrying (assuming they were in the jgl meta, which they aren't atm).

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I've seen Camille/ Irelia solo carry so many games that they are my go to bans. Lol.

MFTORANK15 votes

Yesterday, I got matched into a game agaisnt 2 plat players and i'm only gold 4. I can't imagine how weird it must get the higher up you go. I think matchmaking needs to be looked at tbh.

I grinded from bronze 3 to gold on two diff accounts this season I can't say that I honestly feel bad for the super casual players who are between silver 5-3 and only want to play once in a while. There are never good games at this MMR, only stomps, the teams are so unbalanced it's ridiculous.

HaIlMonitor5 votes

I would win bot lane, but my other lanes wouldn't do so well, so me and my ADC were forced to make plays.

I swear this is how it is too. If I dont HARD carry I dont climb. It sucks to because once in awhile I would love to have a chill game.

Ifneth4 votes

This isn’t applicable outside Challenger, where the pool is literally 200 players. In my Silver games, I get matched up or down one division, and the difference of total division numbers between teams is tiny. I feel personally outclassed only when playing against smurfs. The only comparable problem down here is tilt and rage-quitting. Every few games, someone on either team feeds, flames, and then sits in the fountain. I just think, “Oh, well, that’s a free win or loss”.

Snowman Arc5 votes

Well, Plat and Diamond isn' a big playerbase either, so the same problem apply there as well, with a bit less frequency. Also, you gotta take into consideration how much time is dedicated to the game. Usually, higher elo players play more, meaning that the active players playing time is higher in regards to their playerbase, compared to other elo.

For example, generally, challenger players can play for up to 10 hours a day, while platinum players might play 3-4 hours a day. This makes it so that the extra playerbase at plat elo is countered by the active playing time in challenger, therefore the potential match making selection pool difference shouldn't be as big as the playerbase in those elo suggests. That's why what applies to challenger in terms of matchmaking is very paralleled to what happens in Masters, Diamond and Platinum.

Of course, as you go down, that playerbase vs playing time proportion gets very off, which is why this matchmaking complaint doesn't really involve bronze, silver and even gold elo sometimes.

Ifneth2 votes

So, what you’re saying is that you believe the matchmaker is getting desperate at higher elos, jamming in lower-rated players just to meet queue times?

Snowman Arc3 votes

That's what Faker said. He is getting matched with low Masters even when he's top 5 of the ladder or something.

Pika Fox2 votes

A lot of top tier players only play to prevent LP decay.

Snowman Arc2 votes

That's still at least one game daily on average. At the same time, I've only played like 5 ranked games the past 2 months or something.

Ok sure but why4 votes

Man, I was Gold 2 last year, and I can't escape Silver this year because of everything you just said. +1

needHymn3 votes

[deleted]

Snowman Arc7 votes

Can't you see the " " ?

KKilroy3 votes

I've had a problem for a while with League matchmaking. I'm 17 years old and have been playing league since I was 9 years old. Albeit I was extremely bad, I still had a ton of enjoyment from playing the game. I started playing ranked when I was 12 and was placed Bronze 3, and over the course of season 3 to season 5, I went from Bronze to Gold in SoloQ. I genuinely felt that I was getting better because I was actually being placed against people of my skill level. There were no silvers in my games when I was bronze, except for Bronze 1, and same thing for Silver to Gold. Now, I go 8-2 in placements, and get placed Gold 5 (pretty good for me because I finished last season Gold 3) and my first 6 ranked games after placements were against high plats! How am I supposed to improve efficiently when every game I either get stomped as ADC, or another lane feeds because they just aren't as good as the other team? I don't find enjoyment anymore in this game and I have been playing it since release, and for me, it's an incredibly sad thing. Hopefully with Faker voicing his opinion, Riot will actually do something about their disconnect from veteran League players.

Edit: not to mention, i'm stupidly addicted to this game because i've played it for so long, so I keep coming back to it, even if I don't find enjoyment anymore :/

Add921 votes

In my eyes , bronze and silver is the exact same level of ape, and gold to mid plat has very little differences except that plat players think they are the shit and think they are actually good at the game when they are not and will throw attempting to make a flashy play they saw on a stream .

Bobloser35554 votes

As a low silver I can certainly say there is a huge difference between silver and bronze, but if you are plat or higher you may not notice. If I go into a game with low Bronze I can stomp game most of the time. So between every division there is a big difference why else can challnger beat masters as faker mentioned.

Risen292 votes

{quoted}

As a low silver I can certainly say there is a huge difference between silver and bronze, but if you are plat or higher you may not notice. If I go into a game with low Bronze I can stomp game most of the time. So between every division there is a big difference why else can challnger beat masters as faker mentioned.

I have also noticed the massive skill difference between bronze and silver. Bronze I can win on superior mechanics alone because they are so bad at execution. I can always crush my lane and snowball reliably.

I have also noticed a big difference between low and high silver. I can even notice some more subtle differences between low, mid, and high silver.

LS breaks down diamond into like three different tiers if I recall. Masters he breaks down into at least two tiers, then you have challenger.

So, yeah, a challenger player paired with a diamond player can be catastrophic for quality games.

More from Gameplay

More by Snowman Arc