Thoughts On Moving The Baron / Dragon Pits Closer To Mid Lane?

Best Ekko NA·Feb 22, 2018·7 votes·670 views

https://image.ibb.co/gbyTFx/League_of_Legends_Map_Suggestion.png

I think something like this is a much more symmetrical and fair design. It gives the outer lanes less influence and would remove the need to have the "lane swap protection buffs" on the towers.

Basically mirror the paths that already exist and remove the current dragon / baron pits. Then move the pits to the location in the river where the bushes are sitting now. I also think the paths at the end of the outer lanes (where the tri-bushes are) should be sealed off on each side to make it so that neither side has easy access to the river.

9 Comments

CochoFeb 22, 20182 votes

Honestly I like it, but it's because I hate being ganked. Wards at the jungle exits shut down all ganks. These walls remove a lot of non-dashing junglers from the game.

Best Ekko NAFeb 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Honestly I like it, but it's because I hate being ganked. Wards at the jungle exits shut down all ganks. These walls remove a lot of non-dashing junglers from the game.

Well don't forget, there are still plants which help non dashing Junglers. If they remove the plant near the dragon / baron pit then it would have to be moved over to match the already existing plants near the top / bot side walls.

Baron BarianFeb 22, 20181 votes

This would probably be too much pressure for the mid laner. A major objective sitting 5 feet of both your left and right side, as well as already being 4 places for the enemy jungler to pop p to gank you (6 if you count the other team's side). The paranoia would be none-stop, even if Nocturne isn't in the game.

And as we all know, most people already don't like warding their blind spots.

Best Ekko NAFeb 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Barian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xEPTEqqe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-22T11:08:32.054+0000)

This would probably be too much pressure for the mid laner. A major objective sitting 5 feet of both your left and right side, as well as already being 4 places for the enemy jungler to pop p to gank you (6 if you count the other team's side). The paranoia would be none-stop, even if Nocturne isn't in the game.

And as we all know, most people already don't like warding their blind spots.

The thing is, Mid laners would likely become ADC's. The entire reason why ADC's are located Bot currently is to have sustained damage for taking Dragon's. This would create more diversity in both Support role and also allow for some interesting comps (Support could now be either top, mid, or bottom. Since mid is a short lane, they likely don't need a babysitter).

Where are you getting 6 places to gank you? There are less places, if anything, because the Dragon pit and Baron pit adds a wall where there used to be bushes.

DeathBurstFeb 22, 20181 votes

I think something like this is a much more symmetrical and fair design.

I mean, the current design is already pretty fair, both sides are almost at 50% exactly, I think there is only one percentage point of difference between them. So yes, your suggestion is more symmetrical, but why is that important, or a good thing?

I'm not saying I'm against it, but why should I be in favor of it?

Best Ekko NAFeb 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I mean, the current design is already pretty fair, both sides are almost at 50% exactly, I think there is only one percentage point of difference between them. So yes, your suggestion is more symmetrical, but why is that important, or a good thing?

I'm not saying I'm against it, but why should I be in favor of it?

There is a huge difference as, the position of dragon on the map is the direct cause of the current way the game is played. Moving the Dragon to Mid directly changes the entire way the game will be played. It doesn't seem much different, but it is a lot different. Sustain damage is placed nearest to the Dragon in order ensure DPS in fights securing it. The Support is placed down there to protect that damage dealer. If you move the Dragon to mid lane, a much shorter lane, it's highly likely that Supports won't need to stay with the Marksman anymore because ADC's will move to Mid lane. The entire meta will change if a change like this were to go through.

Acheron16Feb 22, 20181 votes

Because midlane doesnt have enough advantages yet.

What, you need even more objective control, on top being the safest lane, the one where it is easiest to roam from and level up at?

ModKnightsKemplarFeb 22, 20181 votes

It is a TON different, and that's ultimately why I'm against it. This would effect the game in many ways that were pretty unpredictable, but I'm going to take a stab at a one prediction (and some ramifications) that I think is likely:

TL;DR - Duo lane mid, mages suck now With dragon in the middle, the marksman will be there, too. I think it's likely the support moves with them, given that supports want to roam anyway (and we'll see more of that). This will make mages suck because there's no safe lane for them anymore.

Many people started playing this game too late to understand the current macro-meta. Let me explain (for other's benefit if OP already knows):

Mid lane is the shortest lane, and therefore the safest from ganks. Marksmen used to be mid lane because of this, but by swapping bot lane and letting them lane with a support, you actually create an additional safe lane, essentially. Mid lane is short for immobile mages, and bot lane has the protection of a support.

Top lane remains the most dangerous lane, which is why fighters and tanks are the "meta" up there. They have a chance of surviving long enough to get back to tower in the event of a gank, even though they are in a long lane alone.

If you swap dragon and baron to mid, what you do is force the objective control class (marksmen) into the mid lane and mages have no safe lane to use. I think we'd see a pretty drastic reduction in their efficacy as a result.

Even if that's wrong, the potential to flip critical game systems on their head in this fashion is simply too high imo. It's a risk that doesn't add enough to the game to justify taking it in the first place. A solution to a non-existent problem, if you will. The outer lanes already have reduced influence compared to mid in a truly symmetric game because mid is more central, simple as that.

If you were making a new MOBA, maybe this would be an interesting way to distinguish yourself from the competition, but I don't think there's even the potential for a big enough payout to risk it with League.

DivewingFeb 22, 20181 votes

There's a lot of stuff here I agree with, but a lot that also only happens in theory with how the game is right now.

Mid being safer? Not anymore. No one has sufficient access to vision to be able to stay safe, junglers don't need to farm for shit, so making any form of play is just asking for it, and damage has been creeped so hard that if you aren't under tower 24/7, you are at risk of dying.

The whole lane-shift is to be expected though, ADCs pretty much move mid after 1st tower anyway, this would definitely move them mid.

As far as mages, my concern isn't that they will be unsafe, more that they won't do anything there. Right now the value of mages mid is they (typically) are the easiest and fastest waveclearers. Mid being the shortest lane makes them harder to siege.

Now the interesting part here, is what this would mean for mid champions who do NOT fit that category (assassins and roamers), most of whom would LOVE this change, and supports, who would have more accessibility to the sidelanes to roam. Splitpushing would be buffed simply by the nature of the change.

It's not to say such a change is bad one, but it would certainly shake things up