I think Zoe is currently the weakest champion

Meteor Driz··6 votes·2,506 views

After having played her for a bit now I think I can say, she's the worst champion out there.

Here are some issues I personally see

  • All damage loaded into one ability (Q - PaddleStar). All abilities feel like they are made just for better Qs. Even item build is completely just for better Q.
  • Q is extremely slow
  • Q can be blocked by any enemies in front or the back
  • Q is very linear. Damage highly reduced if you try to take it at better angle
  • E (Sleepy Bubble Trouble) has very buggy interactions with the walls
  • E can have some good range, but often if you land a long range E its extremely difficult to capitalize on it.
  • After E lands enemies have a long time to react, prepare themselves, and position in a better spot
  • After E is shot, enemies know your position
  • R is really only practically used for extending the range of Q, but sometimes can be used to dodge thing sideways. But it unfortunately leaves you EXTREMELY open upon your return because you essentially root yourself and everyone knows exactly where you are going to land.
  • No escape due to R limited use case and E has a long time to activate. No other way of moving except if W has stolen a flash luckily. It happens much less than you think where its actually available exactly when you really need it
  • Lichbane has good synergy with passive, but its only really realistically just used to try and boost the damage of a Q combo

Overall I think she needs to have some other element to her other than just giant Q poke damage. Its just not enough to make her feel like a complete champion.

Hopefully one day she'll get there though!

25 Comments

SwiftKitten885 votes

Zoe should never have been added in the first place. its like they completely forgot WHY nidalee had to be reworked in the first place, and honestly zoe is even worse than nid EVER was

getting 1 shot from off screen was never a good idea and it never WILL be a good idea, but to have the same champ also CC you from off screen before hand, and have that CC stay there even if you MISS so the next thing that walk into it gets CCed.

i mean the design was just a horrible idea from the start... its like they learned nothiing

Fízz v24 votes

the same champ but without traps for vision, a melee form with mobility, and a strong heal tho

plus nidalee Q has 100x less risk than zoe Q lul

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x8EBtE2G,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-11-03T00:46:05.645+0000)

the same champ but without traps for vision, a melee form with mobility, and a strong heal tho

im basing those off old nid. ( which i still mained for over a year before she reworked)

old nid heal was strong yes, but outside of the wall jump i would say Zoe is more mobile becuase of the speed boost of 70%+ plus the summoers she can pick up... which btw can also heal given the correct ones, and give her tremendous lane sustain. also her W donest cost mana and it gives her a massive AA boost

nidalee spears never did aoe.. during laning phase ahe always had to CS with autos pre-6 before her rework as she didnt get GET kitty form UNTIL LVL 6. so pre 6 laning phase zoe is a million times more mobile than pre-rework nid as nidalee literally didnt even HAVE acess to her kitty form and therefore her mobility UNTIL level 6

zoe Q can be used to CS AND cost less than nid spears

also nid' heal had an absolute MASSIVE mana cost going up to 140 at max rank pre rework

u say it as if she could "constantly heal"

plus nidalee Q has 100x less risk than zoe Q lul

??? how exactly is it "less of a risk" ? if anything its MORE of a risk, as she cant "snap back" after getting in spear range, nid also cant angle the q around minion so as long as u had something between nid and u you were safe.. this is somthing u CAN'T do with zoe.

nid also has no form of CC, zoe can quite easily hit someone with her CC or even block a choke point so they cant follow.

nid's Q function lke zoes Q except it isn't AOE and

zoe's W fuction as mobility and as ultiity like nid's heal did. and offer more movile than nid's flat +20 ms kitty did, zoe may lack a wall hop, but she also gets a absurdly strong for of CC.

thier kits function the exact same way.

even down to the fact that zoe's CC fuction like how old nid traps did.. and work as a damage amp.

zoe could have literally be a different rework of nidalee

she has an ability that acts as a damage amp for her aother ability she has a long range skillshot that stops at the first target hit and does increasing damage based on range she has a speed boost and a ultility ( which is also sometimes a heal) and that same abiltiy makes her autos stronger ( for nid it made them faster which in a manner of speaking is making them stronger)

i can draw more and more connections but i can think of any 2 champs in the game that mirror that well.. and if u cant.. you're welcome to try. everyt ability zoe has allows her to do every thing old nid did with the sole exception of her wall hop swapped for a hard CC.

Fízz v21 votes

??? how exactly is it "less of a risk" ?

Because Zoe Q range is kinda low, she has to pretty much R in your face to hit you, so something like a Draven could auto attack her for half her HP, Syndra can ult her, etc. Meanwhile you just throw Nidalee Q and.. thats it.

Zoe is probably a better mid laner because she can wave clear with Q, but in terms of poking old Nidalee was a lot better

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x8EBtE2G,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-03T11:01:39.489+0000)

Because Zoe Q range is kinda low, she has to pretty much R in your face to hit you, so something like a Draven could auto attack her for half her HP, Syndra can ult her, etc. Meanwhile you just throw Nidalee Q and.. thats it.

Zoe is probably a better mid laner because she can wave clear with Q, but in terms of poking old Nidalee was a lot better

her "q" range is kinda low? zoe range is MUCH hiehr than nid's Q range because how it how ti works with her R

and yes "Draven can auto her" ok then PRESS YOUR FUCKING E FIRST TO STOP THAT??????

which btw also works for Syndra ... and thats not even mentioning.. and btw IM FUCKING TRIED OF SAYING THIS

Syndra CAN NOT JUST FUCKING R YOU!!!

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

if syndra press "R" wihout setup its going to hurl a grand total of 3 orbs at you and hit you for 600 damage at a rank 3 R.. at lvl 6 and rank one ulti .. thats only going to be about 300 damage.

syndra ultimate REQUIRES SETUP!!! she NEEDS ORBS ON THE FIELD

SHE CANT JUST "PRESS R" and have it kill you.

Syndra - People fear what they do not understand.

Thats LITERALLY a quote from syndra

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/0/08/Syndra.move7.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20121119071138

also... like i said earlier... you can just hit them with your E first.

Fízz v21 votes

If you first E and then Q 2 seconds later, that isnt "poke" anymore tho, its a combo. Zoes poke is just Q - R, which forces her to R in the enemies face. And Syndra can just QR for 4 balls, or she couldve been spamming Q before, so 5 balls.

The point is that Nidalee throws a Q from 1500 range away and forgets about it, while Zoe has to get into 800 range of her target, and then stay there for a second.

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x8EBtE2G,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-03T16:47:07.678+0000)

If you first E and then Q 2 seconds later, that isnt "poke" anymore tho, its a combo. Zoes poke is just Q - R, which forces her to R in the enemies face. And Syndra can just QR for 4 balls, or she couldve been spamming Q before, so 5 balls.

The point is that Nidalee throws a Q from 1500 range away and forgets about it, while Zoe has to get into 800 range of her target, and then stay there for a second.

and y know what? riot learned that staying at 1600 range wasn't healthy,

so they reworked nid and cut her spear damage in half and made it so she had to actually pounce into melee range to follow up on that damage.

something they CLEARLY FORGOT when they made Zoe

"your forced to stay in 800 range for one second? WOW THATS SUCH COUNTERPLAY

btw the only champions with a AA range of 750 or greater is Caitlyn headshot and Twitch ultimate https://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Range

which just disproves your previous statement that u need to get into "AA" range

also syndra's ultimate range is _also _not 800

so you cant even use that.

you say "800 range ": its like "not a huge fucking distance"

Fízz v21 votes

Xerath Q has 1400 range and cant even be blocked, what about that? 800 is much but not that much, + Zoe basically stuns herself in front of the enemy team for 1 second. 1 second with 360 move speed = you can get in 440 range of Zoe if you are walking at her and she throws a max range Q.
so its a lot easier to punish than Nidalee Q

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x8EBtE2G,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-03T17:10:25.440+0000)

Xerath Q has 1400 range and cant even be blocked, what about that? 800 is much but not that much, + Zoe basically stuns herself in front of the enemy team for 1 second. 1 second with 360 move speed = you can get in 440 range of Zoe if you are walking at her and she throws a max range Q.
so its a lot easier to punish than Nidalee Q

XERATH Q

really? XEARTH??? Xerath

what your next excuse? Gangplank ulti has a long range?

YES if u completly igonre like 98% of abilties in the game an focusing on the longest ranted out of any champion. then sure.. if u compared 800 range to the longest abiltyies in the game.. its not far"

also... she isn't "stunned" ... she isn't even ROOTED or as when your rooted u cant cast abilities like summoner 4 , nor is she silenced, grounded, feared charmed..

infact she isnt under ANY form of cc. she just has hr movement speed set to zero, and can still cast things like summoner 4 and item 3152

so why don't you pull your head out of your ass.

im am talking about OLD nidalee Q... thats not even CONSIDERING how much weaker the CURRENTLY nidalee Q is

and u want to know why its weaker.. becuase the OLD ONE was TOO FUCKING STRONG. and didnt give COUNTERPLAY.

which is the ENTIRE reason why nidalee spear now does HALF the damage it used it and now requires u to go into melee range.. which btw U HAVE NO WAY TO GET OUT OF. unlike you current "zoe"

which instantly warps u back no matter what danger u were in. any CC u are under..

you can even break think like Malzahar utimate by snapping back out of his range.

if u go in teoo far as zoe... u have a 70% movsespeed bonus... extra summoners, a form of CC, and if u went in with portal jump, u are automatically taken out.. even if u need to item 3157 to stay alive.

dont give me bulshit about how u "need to go into 800 range"

800 range is out of range of any auto attack and out of range of nearly everything in the game

when u are comparing that too who was REWORKED for the EXACT REASON that it was toxic for her to do was zoe does now. and how now has to go into 0 range with no ability to get back out.

and u know what? thats FAIR becuase if i pounce in on someone, and i cant kill them.. THEN I FUCKED UP!!!

if u get in 800 range of someone.. u didn't use your E to stun them, or you ever went closer than 800 range. you are still warped back out

Fízz v22 votes

so why don't you pull your head out of your ass.

I mean you are basically arguing that "shooting a projectile from 1500 range and forgetting about it" and "shooting a projectile from ~2000 range, then walking and blinking in the direction you want it to go, then semi-rooting yourself near the enemy team for a second before blinking back" are the same thing/equally punishable.. so... xd

DeracadaVenom3 votes

Worst part is people still ban her a ton and ask for more nerfs.

I main her as well and the thing you said about buggy interactions with walls is VERY true. I threw one and it almost landed but it went OVER THE ENEMY and over the wall behind them. Like wtf

ez mental boom2 votes

S t a t i s t i c a l l y S p e a k i n g

That's actually Ryze

saltran2 votes

Ryze at his best form is a relevant midlaner on pro play right now even with terrible soloQ winrate.

Zoe is weak af on both soloQ pro play.

But I dislike Zoe kit so good riddance.

Lovelle II1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ez mental boom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x8EBtE2G,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-02T22:53:48.362+0000)

S t a t i s t i c a l l y S p e a k i n g

That's actually Ryze

I would argue Trundle is worse right now, as at least Ryze is ranged, which means he still has somewhat of a choice if he wants to get shat on early game.

ez mental boom1 votes

S t a t i s t i c a l l y S p e a k i n g

Ryze has the lowest winrate in the game

It is not my opinion, it is a statistic. Therefore, I do not care about your opinion.

Lovelle II1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ez mental boom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x8EBtE2G,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-11-03T20:23:03.834+0000)

S t a t i s t i c a l l y S p e a k i n g

Ryze has the lowest winrate in the game

It is not my opinion, it is a statistic. Therefore, I do not care about your opinion.

http://na.op.gg/champion/trundle/statistics/jungle http://na.op.gg/champion/ryze/statistics/mid

If you're going to be cute and play that card, STATISTICALLY Trundle is doing worse than he is. At least Ryze can still be played in two roles and has a significantly higher pick rate, you can't just look at winrates alone to determine how a champ is doing overall. Trundle has only one role he can barely even do right now, among the lowest pick rates in the game, yet still has one of the lowest win rates.

Ryze has had balance issues since the game's inception, so even if he is buffed he'll eventually just get nerf-hammered or reworked again. Ryze nearly always has a lower winrate as a result (similar to Azir), but someone always ends up breaking him at some point. Trundle has a much more straightforward kit and scalings, so his numbers shouldn't look like this unless he's severely undertuned.

giannishannibal2 votes

Ehh Ivern in his state right now is actually weaker then anyone else. His kit is resolve around Daisy so his q help Daisy gap close and his E shield to protect Daisy or allies and slows so Daisy can get the Knock up. His auto gets bonus range and damage only in bushes and that tickles at best. If he didnt have his passive he wouldnt be able to play jungle at all and there way better support to be picked than Ivern support. The biggest issue ivern has is his own teamates . Few weeks ago there was a post from an Ivern main. His main point is that he dislikes playing Ivern not because he is useless or no damage, its because his teamates are ignorant of his abilities like he doesnt need a leash, his Q make dash to target and that makes fights even more prone to get messed up. He has a team focus kit but he is so weak and niche and has actually requires high skill to play correctly that makes most of the players to never try him at all.

Ranmaru1 votes

{quoted}

Ehh Ivern in his state right now is actually weaker then anyone else. His kit is resolve around Daisy so his q help Daisy gap close and his E shield to protect Daisy or allies and slows so Daisy can get the Knock up. His auto gets bonus range and damage only in bushes and that tickles at best. If he didnt have his passive he wouldnt be able to play jungle at all and there way better support to be picked than Ivern support. The biggest issue ivern has is his own teamates . Few weeks ago there was a post from an Ivern main. His main point is that he dislikes playing Ivern not because he is useless or no damage, its because his teamates are ignorant of his abilities like he doesnt need a leash, his Q make dash to target and that makes fights even more prone to get messed up. He has a team focus kit but he is so weak and niche and has actually requires high skill to play correctly that makes most of the players to never try him at all.

they just did a fe good buffs :))

giannishannibal1 votes

True but they havent buffed his core strength, his teamates so I find him underwhelming even with the buffs. Also with the buffs maybe choose ivern instead of nautilus jungle more oftern but still he is on the weak side because he too reliant to win a game on his team. He can make some excellent kill set up with root-gap-close Q and E slow and Daisy knock up but sion has 2 big slows, 2 knock ups, Ammumu has single target root and AOE root. However after nunu rework he is the only true support jungler in the game so he is unique at least (WOHOO get fireworks)

Ranmaru2 votes

zoe isop and needs nerfs in order for me to play lol of legendsZoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me vZoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me Zoe one shot me

King Lego2 votes

Zoe needs a rework, to be honest. Weak or strong, high skill or low skill, she is a very toxic champion.

My only question is, when CertainlyT designed her, did anybody in Riot say "no" to him about anything? Especially with Akali. Same goes to Irelia, but i don't know who reworked Irelia.

Actually my biggest question is: Does anyone from Riot say "no" when they see something that's toxic and unhealthy for the game? Or too scared to hurt the designers' feelings?

boricCentaur11 votes

Umm she really is not that toxic like you sound like your just a crybaby and you being up akali is proof of that new akali has a shit load more counter play especially compared to the old one ok back to zoe do you think have a kit based around a skill shot is toxic then you much think ez is toxic too and you also seemed to have mixed up unfun and toxic since they are two different things.

King Lego1 votes

{quoted}

Umm she really is not that toxic like you sound like your just a crybaby and you being up akali is proof of that new akali has a shit load more counter play especially compared to the old one ok back to zoe do you think have a kit based around a skill shot is toxic then you much think ez is toxic too and you also seemed to have mixed up unfun and toxic since they are two different things.

Spare the crybaby bs. Most of the community was complaining even the pros. Don't pretend she wasn't problematic.

Zoe is the reincarnation of old Nidalee Q that riot themselves admitted it was toxic and hence why they reworked it, then allow Zoe to exist. The problem with Zoe is her w being able to use summoner spells of other players. That's possibly the most broken thing i have ever seen.

Summoner spells are supposed to be for the summoners only, and there is a reason why these spells have long cooldowns, and Zoe having free 0 second spells just like that, is what i would even call a bad design. It feels like cheating that ability, and it's a cheap fail safe if a Zoe misses her E R Q combo (whatever order) she can just use her summoner spells and w and finish.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

I hate playing against her, but I wouldn't mind if her e q combo was buffed and her w and passive were nerfed...if you landed an e q combo you after laning phase you deserve to oneshot or get someone very low...

Baby Ghoul1 votes

I thought this was gonna be one of those joke threads...

More from Gameplay

More by Meteor Driz