Plat for 3 seasons - Can't get out of silver this season

Meteor Driz·Oct 16, 2018·56 votes·19,002 views

I used to rag on people for saying they were in elo hell. But damn, I finally see exactly what they mean now.

If you don't play champs on the approved hyper carry list, it really is impossible to climb. You just can't impact the game enough to carry. Even if you shut down someone strong (karthus vs yasuo for example), he will still come back and just dominate no matter how hard he failed in the beginning. Meanwhile it doesn't matter how fed you get on non-hyper champs, you just chances of winning will always remain 50/50 based entirely on how many hyper carries your team has vs the enemies.

Sorry to all of you that I discredited in the past, elo hell really does exist.

Edit:

For reference, I play mid mages such as Xerath, Vel'koz, and Viktor

141 Comments

Rock MDOct 17, 201826 votes

There's 3 ways to be good at the game.

You're legitimately good at the game and understand the mechanics and inner workings.
You know what to expect from the enemy and know how to outplay it.
You cheese your opponent and out-mechanic him.

If you actually know how to play the game, you should never have issues with climbing up to D5 MMR... unless you knowingly forego common sense because, "lul it's just silvers." and then it's your fault for underestimating them. They're not mentally handicapped they just aren't efficient players.

If you know what to expect and how to outplay it, good fucking luck. Again, they're not efficient players so everything you know about jungle pathing, throw it out the window. Just punish punish punish bad overextensions and force pressure into your lane while minimizing deaths.

If you cheese and out-mechanic your opponent... well I don't assume you do since you play easily outplayed, immobile mages.

So you're either intentionally playing bad because you think low elos are subhuman or you're expecting them to play the game at a plat level and you're left both confused and frustrated. Neither are inherently the fault of elo hell, they're your fault.

IllabetheOct 17, 20186 votes

You really have no clue what you are talking about.

Rock MDOct 17, 201820 votes

{quoted}

You really have no clue what you are talking about.

You're right I only peaked Master this season and coach for solo queue. Pardon my ignorance because I clearly haven't the faintest clue.

IllabetheOct 17, 20186 votes

You're diamond III. That's a hard fall from Master.....

Coaching Solo queue is VERY different than attempting to climb it. yourself. It's easy to criticize the misteps one player makes versus their team. It's another entirely to experience what you "wish" you could do if the game didn't collapse before 7 minutes, and be gold-helpless to stop it.

Rock MDOct 17, 201821 votes

{quoted}

You're diamond III. That's a hard fall from Master.....

Shit happens, but I'd prefer you not have a negative winrate over a thousand games before criticizing my rank.

IllabetheOct 17, 20181 votes

:) This is a smurf account XD.

Spikeman71Oct 17, 201818 votes

Level 143 smurf? yikes

Who Fed RuOct 17, 20183 votes

you played over 1000 games this season on a smurf?

wow

GigglesOOct 17, 20185 votes

"smurf"

Just like

"lag"

IllabetheOct 17, 20181 votes

I've played 2741 games on my main :)

Tr4shB4NSYST3MOct 17, 20183 votes

And what rank are you hardstuck @ on that account?

Better JunglerOct 17, 20182 votes

3741 games at an average of 25 minutes is about 65 days worth of playing.

nonstop.

I'm calling 100% bullshit.

IllabetheOct 17, 20181 votes

We're about how many days into the season? 270? 65 days is about 1/4 of each day. Wowza.

Better JunglerOct 17, 20183 votes

6 hours a day for 270 days straight is wowza. On top of the other lies you're telling/showing.

(1000 games on a "smurf" with a low win rate)

Not sure who you're trying to impress.

GripaAviaraOct 17, 20182 votes

What this guy is leaving out is you also need 4-5k games

Snowman ArcOct 17, 20185 votes

I'd like to comment on your last point, since I agree with everything else you said. I'm in Plat 5 at the moment.

That's the problem nowadays. You don't know what to expect. You can be facing a silver 2 player who is legit bad and crush them, or they can actually be decent and just not play a lot of games to climb higher. You can't know how to adjust your playstyle to gain advantages over them. Since League is a race, you have to be quick and fast with what you need to do. I will give you an example.

Let's assume I am a mid laner and I play against a silver 2 player. Let's say that I can easily beat them, even though I don't know that yet. If my bottom lane feeds, what do I do? I have to try and keep up the tempo and try to gain similar advantages in my lane. But I can't always do that, because I don't know to which extent my enemy mid laner is bad. Therefore, if they aren't as bad as my bottom lane, I can't possible gain enough adv to battle the enemies. At the same time, what if my enemy mid laner isn't that bad of a player and I can't get a lot out of them?

This example leads me to be doing risky plays sometimes in order to try and stay ahead of the race, ahead of the curve to try and always have the upper hand over the enemies. The problem is that I can't always identify the risk/reward because I don't know what kind of enemy I'm facing. Sure, I can op.gg their division, I can even check KDAs, cs/min, that's good and all, but that still doesn't mean much. I can play against a silver 2 guy and be able to hard cheese them and all my risks paying off, and then having a comfortable lead and possible win OR I can play against another silver 2 guy, who won't fall for my tricks, my risks might even lead to me dying, and then what happens if my team also feeds?

That's the problem I've had recently when I tried to climb above Plat 5. I don't know how to min/max risk/reward. You can tell me that I can play risk-free, do the basics, laning pressure, wave control, good warding etc. but when it comes to outpacing your opponent, sometimes, the slow and steady risk-free beatdown on my enemy mid laner is just not good enough, when my bottom lane loses first tower in 7 minutes.

Rock MDOct 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0uGjJELj,comment-id=00070004,timestamp=2018-10-17T15:02:36.843+0000)

I'd like to comment on your last point, since I agree with everything else you said. I'm in Plat 5 at the moment.

That's the problem nowadays. You don't know what to expect. You can be facing a silver 2 player who is legit bad and crush them, or they can actually be decent and just not play a lot of games to climb higher. You can't know how to adjust your playstyle to gain advantages over them. Since League is a race, you have to be quick and fast with what you need to do. I will give you an example.

Let's assume I am a mid laner and I play against a silver 2 player. Let's say that I can easily beat them, even though I don't know that yet. If my bottom lane feeds, what do I do? I have to try and keep up the tempo and try to gain similar advantages in my lane. But I can't always do that, because I don't know to which extent my enemy mid laner is bad. Therefore, if they aren't as bad as my bottom lane, I can't possible gain enough adv to battle the enemies. At the same time, what if my enemy mid laner isn't that bad of a player and I can't get a lot out of them?

This example leads me to be doing risky plays sometimes in order to try and stay ahead of the race, ahead of the curve to try and always have the upper hand over the enemies. The problem is that I can't always identify the risk/reward because I don't know what kind of enemy I'm facing. Sure, I can op.gg their division, I can even check KDAs, cs/min, that's good and all, but that still doesn't mean much. I can play against a silver 2 guy and be able to hard cheese them and all my risks paying off, and then having a comfortable lead and possible win OR I can play against another silver 2 guy, who won't fall for my tricks, my risks might even lead to me dying, and then what happens if my team also feeds?

That's the problem I've had recently when I tried to climb above Plat 5. I don't know how to min/max risk/reward. You can tell me that I can play risk-free, do the basics, laning pressure, wave control, good warding etc. but when it comes to outpacing your opponent, sometimes, the slow and steady risk-free beatdown on my enemy mid laner is just not good enough, when my bottom lane loses first tower in 7 minutes.

Here's the issue

if you decide, "huh, that guy isn't playing well but my team is feeding I need to do something risky to carry." you'd fall under the category of, "knows better but throws anyway." You can very easily freeze into a roam or get wards if you need a way into the game. You don't need to towerdive someone who is 30 cs down.

That's really it with laning. Bjerg said it best, "you don't really need that many kills in lane, just get one and abuse it to start roaming." Really. You pop a 30 cs lead on most champions you can roam on them and use those for your kills. Telling yourself you have to hurry up and make a play, especially if you don't know how to min/max and look for the best opportunities, will only lead to risky stuff you normally wouldn't do because you aren't feeling the strain of a stacked game.

Snowman ArcOct 30, 20181 votes

Sorry for the late reply. I see what you say, I've even thought of it myself, and I wasn't really referring to tower dives in lane. I was mostly referring to roaming when it comes to risk/reward, because, let's face it, roaming is risky, when you have absolutely no idea where the enemy jungler is or if your bottom lane will respond to your roam. Also, you are giving free time to your enemy laner to try to catch up when they shouldn't.

Generally, you are just in a bad spot. It feels like everything you do is bad, and you have to pick the lesser of all evils.

IOffMeta GtOvrItOct 18, 20181 votes

If you notice a hard snowball/shove in the bottom lane, I would advise you to try roaming more, it won't always work but you could definitely give it a shot, plus coordinating with a jungle gank is always nice :)

Snowman ArcOct 30, 20181 votes

Sorry for the late reply. All this theorycrafting is good, and I'm all for it, but what happens when my jungler is boosted and doesn't wanna comply? Also, what happens when I play someone like Viktor in the mid lane, who isn't the best at roaming, like a Zed or a Talon is? Essentially, I am getting forced to play things with a lot of mobility and damage early to try and help my losing lanes, before even knowing if I will have one.

IOffMeta GtOvrItOct 30, 20181 votes

May invest in some move speed runes? Viktor is using Klepto currently you could do that, or domination secondaries with ooc movespeed? Theres really no panacea to poor teamwork sometimes us commoners just have to eat the punishment of rough games lol

IOffMeta GtOvrItOct 30, 20181 votes

You could also try your control mages as support in the bot lane as well? You won't be able to get as fast income but you'll control more variables such as vision and roaming to mid and possibly even impacting their jungler as well, just a thought.

Snowman ArcNov 7, 20181 votes

Well, I finished playing a lot of flex games in mid-Gold elo. I played like 12 games of ADC, 9 of them as Sivir. Won all as Sivir, and did like 2/3 as Cait. In some games, team was doing fine, in others, team was doing poorly. What I got out of all of those games, esepcially the Sivir ones, is that I always had agency over the game. My lane was a safe farming lane, with good opportunities to trade some damage. After I got my Stormrazor, it just felt the game was over. I had all the options to keep the game stalled out if we were losing and then just pump out insane damage to carry fights later.

Sivir is my #1 pick at the moment, honestly. Not even Viktor can match her waveclear and agency she has over the game. I feel like I'm 1 division bracket higher when I play this empowering champion. I managed to have an average of 9.5 cs/minute over 9 games, while always outdamaging anyone else.

For a champion that is supposed to be in the bottom lane and supposed to be scaling later in the game, it feels like I can impact the game so much faster by just taking bottom tower by perma shoving the lane, while also being safe (bot is safer than mid), and then I'm able to rotate around and snowball leads or balance the game if we're losing. I'm not saying that every champion should be able to do this, but especially Viktor who can't really fight early (apart from this Q max bs), he should be able to at least control a lane without having to worry getting all-ined or going oom.

I'm replying now because I was waiting for the 8.22 changes to go through. It seems like they fucked up Viktor even harder. Now, his early game is hit once again, because of this Q max bullshit, and now has to wait until he gets his fourth item in order to get the same damage he had before. Traditional AP mid Viktor might as well be dead as fuck now. His Q trading tool at levels 9-13 feels dead, his R might feel even more lackluster.

They could have instead have his Q cooldown scale with levels, rather than Q ranks, or his shield being based on more AP and less mana. Or maybe they could have the slow zone of Iceborn Gauntlet being less potent from ranged champions. Or they could buff Rylai's slow, so that there is more incentive to get it.

I guess it's the end of the season and we should see more changes once preseason goes through, but it feels like Riot doesn't understand what's going on. It reminds me of tank Ekko top back in season 6 (?). They reduced his base damages and increased his AP ratios to remove the tank Ekko thing. The thing is, AP Ekko was always viable throughout this whole time. Right now, AP Viktor is not really viable, when he can get destroyed by most mid laners, especially things like Akali, Irelia etc. Again, Riot could hit the Q shield's mana scaling and have it have more AP scaling.

Anyway, I don't wanna bore you anymore with these. I have so many things I can say, but I guess I'll have to settle for the moment and wait for preseason to see what's up. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to comment around here when that time comes and have a conversation with you again once it happens.

IOffMeta GtOvrItNov 7, 20181 votes

Honestly man, if you could find synergy with a support you could take both our strategies and put them together, hard shove their bot lane and make a dash towards mid with a support that works well with sivir (pyke may do well considering his stealth) or you could disrupt the jungle and take their farm, harass them out of your side or just continue to shove your lane, I guess it depends on the team/matchup right? Just some extra ideas that may help you move towards plat/diamond, congrats on mid gold

Power CosmicOct 17, 20182 votes

In a perfect world, with perfectly fair matchmaking you are right. But, as everyone knows, that is hardly the case. As a person who has played all along the ladder you should know better than anyone, rank isn't everything. Yet, sadly, to the community it is everything so I feel real sorry for the guy you called out and put on the chopping block.

5050BSOct 16, 201820 votes

Silver is a shit show of Luck/bad Luck.

My "Normals" are with Plat and Diamond players but I cant get out of Silver because when I get to S1 (15+ times now) I get afkers or literally run down mid int feeders.

I play the same champs and I play SoloQ for both. This leads me to feel that the promos in Ranked are there to push down players. I also find that Im on the opposing team to smurfs almost 100% of the time. So Riot thinks Im a smurf and is placing me to balance the teams with a smurf.

Meteor DrizOct 16, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Silver is a shit show of Luck/bad Luck.

My "Normals" are with Plat and Diamond players but I cant get out of Silver because when I get to S1 (15+ times now) I get afkers or literally run down mid int feeders.

I play the same champs and I play SoloQ for both. This leads me to feel that the promos in Ranked are there to push down players. I also find that Im on the opposing team to smurfs almost 100% of the time. So Riot thinks Im a smurf and is placing me to balance the teams with a smurf.

Yeah. The game just isn't balanced around people dying 5 times in lane anymore. It's balanced off of high level play where people die 1-2 times max in lane.

Malix FarwinOct 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meteor Driz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0uGjJELj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-16T23:56:36.684+0000)

Yeah. The game just isn't balanced around people dying 5 times in lane anymore. It's balanced off of high level play where people die 1-2 times max in lane.

Very True.

FlashesOct 17, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Silver is a shit show of Luck/bad Luck.

My "Normals" are with Plat and Diamond players but I cant get out of Silver because when I get to S1 (15+ times now) I get afkers or literally run down mid int feeders.

I play the same champs and I play SoloQ for both. This leads me to feel that the promos in Ranked are there to push down players. I also find that Im on the opposing team to smurfs almost 100% of the time. So Riot thinks Im a smurf and is placing me to balance the teams with a smurf.

I won the lottery and got into Gold V and just quit Ranked after that.

ƒrostγOct 17, 201817 votes

Maybe you're just silver level and you only got lucky in the past seasons. Looking at your op.gg kinda supports this. Even with adc your average cs/minue is only 5.6, that's silver tier. Not even gonna start talking about your negative winrates

Also you played 86 (!!!!! ) different champs in ranked this season. Man, jus wtf. You're ruining games not just for yourself, but for your team as well. Don't do this if you want to climb, just stick to max 2 roles and max 6 champs.

KVbqbFsC8eOct 16, 201816 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meteor Driz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0uGjJELj,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-16T23:48:33.171+0000)

If you don't play champs on the approved hyper carry list, it really is impossible to climb.

100% false. Maybe you are just a Silver level player.

Meteor DrizOct 16, 201826 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0uGjJELj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-16T23:50:34.563+0000)

100% false. Maybe you are just a Silver level player.

I find it hard to believe that I suddenly became two tiers worse of a player instantly when the new season hit, but I guess it could happen.

KVbqbFsC8eOct 16, 20189 votes

If a 47% winrate through 500+ games in mid Silver isn't evidence enough, I don't know what is.

saltranOct 17, 20186 votes

It is, but the Braindead Boards will blame everyone except themselfs for their rank.

LennOct 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meteor Driz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0uGjJELj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-16T23:53:49.534+0000)

I find it hard to believe that I suddenly became two tiers worse of a player instantly when the new season hit, but I guess it could happen.

to be honest, it's possible, because players do actually get better every season. if you can climb to plat every single season you are actually becoming a better player every time, because the general skill level of players is improving all the time. it's possible you've stagnated in learning, or picked up bad habits, or plat/gold players have picked up on gameplay skills that you're outright missing.

i believe in elo hell to extent, but you have 500 games in silver with a sub 50 winrate. you can only say bad luck for so long. if you're really leaps and bounds beyond silver's skill level, you would get out eventually even while playing off-meta champions.

SangreDeNocheOct 17, 20184 votes

{quoted}

to be honest, it's possible, because players do actually get better every season. if you can climb to plat every single season you are actually becoming a better player every time, because the general skill level of players is improving all the time. it's possible you've stagnated in learning, or picked up bad habits, or plat/gold players have picked up on gameplay skills that you're outright missing.

i believe in elo hell to extent, but you have 500 games in silver with a sub 50 winrate. you can only say bad luck for so long. if you're really leaps and bounds beyond silver's skill level, you would get out eventually even while playing off-meta champions.

I was Bronze 2 most of the season. Literally 1 good 3 days and I skyrocketed to Silver 1. I changed nothing at all, but my allies stopped being gutter trash long enough for that climb. Weird how when all your lanes stop being 0/5 despite your best ability to step in and help you can win promos like it's nothing.

Unker139Oct 17, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meteor Driz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0uGjJELj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-16T23:53:49.534+0000)

I find it hard to believe that I suddenly became two tiers worse of a player instantly when the new season hit, but I guess it could happen.

Everything is also relative. It could be that everyone got better and you stayed the same. More likely is that if there are less players than last year that more "bad" players did not continue. The two people I know that used to play were both lower elo. Without enough bad players, you still need 60% of the player base to be bronze and silver.

It's possible that the meta changed to something that is not your strength. When I played mtg there was one year when red-green was strong and I climbed to top 1000 on my state when my elo was usually below the mid point.

In lol, I'm still adjusting to all the pre minion activity so early game is very frustrating to me. It's a good thing game wise, but it completely throws my cs farming which is not good to begin with.

saltranOct 17, 20182 votes

You become a worse player, just that.

DarwinTheoryOct 17, 20188 votes

I play only garen.

I have several alt accounts. All garen.

One account is hardstick silver, rest are gold and above. In fact I just fluctuated back to silver 3 then backup to silver 1 on that account then back to silver 2.

Same champ. Same skill. Different matchmaking. Different Elo. And I almost always stomp my lane. Doesn't matter Vs a fed zed/Yasuo/jhin Kai said tho and I can't ban 'em all. Some team mates just prefer banning blitz :rofl

I don't care I'm just throwing this out there for evidence. It really does exist. You have to remember matchmaking works based on the systems perceivement of your MMR. It's a major flaw.

Malix FarwinOct 17, 20186 votes

Its only been Elo Hell for this season andaround when the ardent meta started last. Before that Silver felt more fair to me. When i lost a game i felt like there was something i could of done to win it. Now it just feels like its not up to me. I could play like utter crap and win but play like a beast and lose.

demoted to ironOct 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0uGjJELj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-17T00:02:37.489+0000)

Its only been Elo Hell for this season andaround when the ardent meta started last. Before that Silver felt more fair to me. When i lost a game i felt like there was something i could of done to win it. Now it just feels like its not up to me. I could play like utter crap and win but play like a beast and lose.

I feel like it's because people seem less willing to work with the team. Simple things I'd ask of people last season like "build defence so you can survive your lane" or "take tower then back off to drake" don't seem to go through so easily this season. Hell, even getting people to group has been a chore.

Akali is SO HOTOct 17, 20184 votes

You've played 86 different champions in ranked this season with a lot of them having a negative winrate for you. That's probably why you're silver.

Bob the ToastrOct 17, 20183 votes

Problem with Silver is you get about a third people who are just starting ranked and should actually be bronze, about a third people who are smurfing or should actually be higher elo, and about a third people who are actually silver. And you have no way to control which type of silvers you get on your team.

JackMcSnipeyzOct 17, 20183 votes

Actually, if anything yiu SHOULD stick to your comfort picks because when you do you have 70% winrate on xerath and 68% winrate on ahri. Meanwhile the OP yasuo you mentioned - you have 40% winrate, so maybe it's not so ez pz "all about picking meta" and you actually have to put some effort beyond picking yasuo and expecting to win just because you saw one stomping a game earlier.

Again - your yasuo winrate: 40% You say you cant shut him down. Your xerath winrate: 70%

Stick to what you know and improve, earlier ranks dont gurantee you're still at the same rank as before.

Fear the KaynOct 17, 20183 votes

I refuse to play ranked anymore because I legitimately think getting out of Silver is 100% luck. Silver is a dumping ground for pretty much every player, and there's a real skill gap in Silver. There's people who are obviously better than everyone else but just don't play ranked often, and there are some players who definitely deserve bronze but got lucky during their placements and won an extra couple games because they got carried. It's incredibly annoying have players on your team who lack basic knowledge of the game or feed hard and proceed to give up/spam surrender vote because THEIR score isn't great, but the team as a whole is doing OK.

mack9112Oct 17, 20183 votes

I played about 1200 games this season and climbed from silver 4 to plat 2 at my highest. A huge amount of those games though was me getting out of silver cause fuck it is hard. It's not that silver players suck it's more that the silver tier in itself is so vast that skill varience in every game is so obvious. Can't wait for iron tier.

clickheadOct 18, 20182 votes

I used to think elo hell didn't exist, until this season I reached the point where I was winning lane 90% of the time on Fiora (not exagerating, I have the numbers to back it up), all my individual performance metrics (cs, KDA, etc) were good and I was losing MMR rather than climbing.

Now I win my lane around 95% of the time and I am finally starting to climb.

Basically, laning at a low-mid plat level was literally not enough to carry in gold 5, I had to improve even more to the point where I'm likely laning like a high plat (maybe even D5).

Very few people would believe that I am laning at that level in Gold 5, unless they saw that I average a 1200 gold lead over my lane opponent as Fiora and I've been platinum several times before.

Emerald FangOct 18, 20182 votes

Can't stress this hard enough. The fact that I play mage mid lanes lowers my potential winrate by EASILY 5% or more. Assassins dominate the meta because who cares if you die? In silver all you have to do is kill the hypercarry with ~~your kit~~ your Q + duskblade stormrazor passive electrocute triforce autoattack dealing 500% of their max HP, suicide and it doesn't matter because their team is now panicking and it's free kills.

Irelia BotOct 17, 20181 votes

When you give up playing Irelia because she is perma banned and start spamming Shen and Kennen based on what seems most effective given the situation.

I seriously forgot just how much juggernauts hate facing Kennen.