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Hexdrinker is indeed an overloaded item (Warning: Math) (TL;DR at Bottom)

koshkyra··24 votes·1,503 views

item 3155 is overloaded and ill explain why.

Stats (without the passive):

+20 ad +35 mr

One item 1036 comes with 10 ad and costs 350g

Meaning the item comes with 700g of gold so far (20 ad)

One item 1033 comes with 25 mr and costs 450g

This means that 35 mr is equal to 630g

  • 700+630=1330

Hexdrinker costs 1300 gold, MEANING IT IS ALREADY 102% GOLD EFFICIENT WITHOUT THE PASSIVE.

Now, the average level you will back and buy this item is level 5,6, or 7. Lets say 6

Keep in mind that Hexdrinker is a magic shield, meaning it takes your total mr into account and it is not just a negation of X damage.

  • Assuming you have 9 mr from runes (average), and the average midlane champion will have 33 base mr at level 6, you will end up with 42 total mr before Hexdrinker.

After Hexdrinker, you will end up with 77 total mr at level 6.

77 mr calculates to roughly 44% magic damage reduction.

Hexdrinker at level 6 will negate a base of roughly 167 magic damage.

Taking the 44% magic reduction into calculation, Hexdrinker results in a total of roughly (sorry for the overusage of this word) 240 magic damage negated.

item 1028 150 health for 400g

Meaning 240 health would be 640g

Considering Hexdrinker only blocks magic damage and not physical (not counting true damage because it is very uncommon and only like 2% of the overall damage in the game), the 240 magic shield calculates to be worth 320g.

1330+320=1650/1300=just under 127% gold efficiency.

This is cheap item that is incredibly gold efficient, 127% to be exact.

TL;DR: Hexdrinker is a cheap item that is 127% gold efficient with its passive and is therefore very overloaded.

I am going to take a nap now because my head hurts from all this math.

42 Comments

BobaFlautist13 votes

You don't get to multiply the shield by the damage reduction of the mr and then compare it to health, because health also scales with mr.

Wimbledofy8 votes

Sorry but you can't just simply say an item is overloaded because it's x% gold efficient. Many full/partial items in league are highly gold efficient, but aren't considered overloaded. If you're going to say something is overloaded you need to give an actual reason, such as comparing it to other items or something.

An Undead brat7 votes

item 3191 Here, this item is shit and Hexdrinker removes an AP champion from the game for the half of the match. I know, no math, but fuck Hexdrinker.

Lauchmelder2 votes

"But... but.....Hexdrinker without it's passive is way worse than Seeker's with a passive" - every Hexdrinker defender ever

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

removes an AP champion from the game for the half of the match.

Never in abuse on this board.... JESUS*[zombie-brand-facepalm]*

An Undead brat1 votes

Huh?

Rexxiee6 votes

Mages outscale champs that build hexdrinker mid.

It needs to be stronger early game.

Penns1 votes

Fizz item 3070

Rexxiee2 votes

{quoted}

Fizz item 3070

Its honestly the only case where hexdrinker is actually unbalanced, in ad assassins or bruisers vs ap assassins matchups (because obviously in that case, they cant just farm and outscale like mages can and they obviously arent safe picks either).

Mostly because ap assassins have no real items that were actually made for them.

Penns1 votes

feelsbadman At this point Id say just make Fizz an ad champ with duskblade and stuff but i want muh zhonyas lul

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

feelsbadman At this point Id say just make Fizz an ad champ with duskblade and stuff but i want muh zhonyas lul

Make an AD zhonyas Keepo

Penns1 votes

Sounds good to me. Lethality AD Zhonyas for assassins opieop

Maligaro Spike1 votes

item 3814 reworked to have zhonya's active, why not?

YumaS2Astral2 votes

What you said made me remember of AD Bruiser Fizz. He would use AD items and abuse the magic damage on his kit to have mixed damage and build tanky. He can't really be viable with his current kit (if they buff him to be good AD, he will be OP) hopefully in a future rework he can be allowed to be viable as both AD bruiser and AP assassin.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

item 3146 is the duskblade of AP

Azure Dancer1 votes

Tbh luden was made for them after dfg was removed.

AmazoX2 votes

{quoted}

Mages outscale champs that build hexdrinker mid.

It needs to be stronger early game.

This.

An Undead brat2 votes

That's why the AP got halved all over the board and mages winrates drop hard as the game goes on?

archerno14 votes

Dont u need to add cooldown to gold efficiency? Also if u compare it to seekers

Seeker's Armguard

20 ability power = Gold 435 30 armor = Gold 600 Total Gold Value = Gold 1035 15 ability power (from passive) = Gold 326.25 15 armor (from passive) = Gold 300 Total Gold Value = Gold 1661.25 Actual Cost = Gold 1200 Gold Efficient = 86.25% (138.44% at 30 stacks)

Fully stacked seekers has 138.44% gold efficiency at full stacks and it doesnt have CD. So Hexdrinker isnt as overloaded as some other items.

koshkyra2 votes

Seekers is arguably less or equally efficient to Hexdrinker because it requires 30 cs to fully stack. Assuming you get 5/6 cs for every wave (reasonable estimation), it will take you 6 waves to fully stack the item, about 5 minutes.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

Seekers is arguably less or equally efficient to Hexdrinker because it requires 30 cs to fully stack. Assuming you get 5/6 cs for every wave (reasonable estimation), it will take you 6 waves to fully stack the item, about 5 minutes.

There are 2 waves per minute. 12 CS spawn per minute, if u dont miss any CS u can stack it fully in 2 and a half minutes.

koshkyra1 votes

I thought it was one wave per 45 sec

If im wrong, then it would be 3 minutes (still a lengthy time) and mb

Waves take 20 seconds to get to midlane from spawning, so it is 3m 20s.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

I thought it was one wave per 45 sec

If im wrong, then it would be 3 minutes (still a lengthy time) and mb

Waves take 20 seconds to get to midlane from spawning, so it is 3m 20s.

Timer before next minion wave spawn starts on spawn of minions. Not when they reach lane. If you finish seekers at minute 10 and u follow wave and u have waveclear, every 30 sec u will kill 6 minions.

koshkyra1 votes

Timer before next minion wave spawns starts on spawn of minions. Not when they reach lane.

Im aware of this, what is the point of you saying this?

Cosnirak1 votes

When you take into account reasonable cs numbers (not even the best players get them all) and the armguard bug it typically takes much longer. Then you gotta account for the fact that you typically buy armguard later in the game than hexdrinker because you need a lost chapter first on most ap champs to not constantly go oom, which means your stacking of armguard bumps into the typical time one of the bot towers dies and both teams bot + supp come mid and suddenly you don't get that much cs anymore. It often takes so long to fully stack that you just end up upgrading to full zhonya's before you finish stacking it.

If you don't know what the armguard bug is: if you kill multiple things at the same time you only get a stack on armguard for 1 of them. This bug has a massive impact on how fast it stacks and as far as I can tell has been around as long as armguard has.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

Hex drinker is only fully gold efficient when the life of a champ will drop to the point the shield activates and they don't die.

Aazzlano2 votes

what does that even mean

ok sure, so all of the health from RoA is meaningless unless you would have died without that extra health, then the health mattered. in fact, it's actually worse than that because with RoA you will have higher health which means % damage will hit you harder. while hexdrinker doesn't have that problem.

but anyway you don't calculate it like that. though technically yes, all health items actually are negatively gold efficient (because you take additional damage from % hp damage, so you actually are HURT by building HP) until you get to the point where your current health is less than the health the item provides, then it saves you and was actually worth something. but that's not how we actually use health in terms of gold efficiency.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

Comparing items based one when its passive is active, vs one that isn't is silly. Also the shield are not life, it only stops damage 5 seconds or 110 to 280 magic damage (depending which comes first) every 90 seconds.

Aazzlano2 votes

If you never go below 150 HP, the extra HP given by Ruby Crystal didn't help you at all (sans health scaling on abilities etc.) and you didn't need it. (And you actually take more damage from all % hp items, making you drop faster to that mark.) If you don't go below 30% HP, all of the shield (effectively HP) from a potential Hexdrinker proc didn't help you at all, and you didn't need it.

Any time you actually need the health (when you are taking magic damage....................................) you will get the Hexdrinker proc. Sure you don't get the health until you are low, but you literally don't need it until you would have died otherwise, and Hexdrinker actually procs way before that, so it's BETTER than health, vs magic damage, in every imaginable way. Normal damage, %max health damage (it doesn't add % hp so less damage taken), %current health (your current health percent will be lower than with actual health, so less damage taken), %missing health (it blocks damage and isn't counted for this, so it doesn't calculate into this AND actually helps lower that damage by blocking some) so in literally every imaginable situation, it is SUPERIOR to health. Not to mention it doesn't only proc once per back, or anything like that, it's once per 90 seconds so if you stay around it can actually proc again, at level 6 this is an effective 8.9 health per 5 which has a gold value of 320. so if you want to act like that 90 seconds is a disadvantage, let's look at it the other way.

so at level 6: 20 AD = 700g 35 MR = 630g

160 HP vs Magic = 426g which "regenerates" every 90 seconds so 8.9 HP vs Magic regenerated per 5 seconds 8.9 HP5 = 320g

159% gold efficient at level 6.

If you sat on it til level 18 280 HP vs Magic = 746g which "regenerates" every 90 seconds so 15.5 HP vs Magic regenerated per 5 seconds 15.5 HP5 = 558

202% gold efficient at level 18.

Balanced.

{quoted}

it only stops damage 5 seconds or 110 to 280 magic damage (depending which comes first) every 90 seconds.

So it's either 110-280 extra health vs magic damage, because you are obviously fighting, or if the opponent wants to peel off and wait for it to expire so they don't waste their burst into it, it's a 5 second zhonya vs them where you are free to move, attack, kill, lifesteal, hell, RUN if you wanted, anything you want. So to make it easy you just call it extra health only applicable to magic damage, because that's what it is, and is calculated as extra health because that's exactly what it is since you BUILD IT VS MAGIC DAMAGE. It's like saying the MR on the item should be valued less because it only works on magic damage.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

Its worst then health, adc's can still just AA you one more time and you die.

Aazzlano1 votes

{quoted}

Its worst then health, adc's can still just AA you one more time and you die.

damn you got me, hexdrinker is complete shit. it clearly needs massive buffs.

koshkyra1 votes

It is already 102% gold efficient without the passive

What lmao

Aazzlano2 votes

Another thing to consider is that AD is incredibly cheap for no reason and had its base price reduced time and time again arbitrarily so that they can justify bullshit items by artificially lowering the 'gold efficiency efficiency' of AD. Longsword was 400g a few seasons ago, and was lowered to 360 and then later lowered to 350 (for no justifiable reason) and this throws off gold efficiency calculations a LOT.

AD has not decreased in value, only in price. AD might cost 350g for 10 AD, but as I said that is artificially lowered. If they raised Amp tome to 600g and Blasting Wand to 1000, Needlessly Large Rod to 1500. and changed nothing else about how AP scales or functions, the value of AP doesn't increase, just the cost. AP goes from 21.75g per AP to 30g per AP, and you could say "WOW MORELLONOMICON HAS 3,000G WORTH OF AP AND IT ONLY COSTS 2900, RIOT PLEASE NERF" even though NOTHING has changed with this item.

The exact opposite has happened for AD with the slow decrease of the price of Long Sword. They can add more and more AD to items and the gold efficiency will remain similar, because AD is "valued less" even though it's value has arguably only increased over time, while the cost has slowly decreased. But they can jam 16% more AD onto items and still have the item be just as efficient. Which isn't considering the fact that almost all AD items are far, far more gold efficient than AP items EVEN WITH the ridiculous pricing of AP. The only ones that even remotely compare are mana items, which are required for most champions anyway and mana isn't even a relevant combat stat, and one that AD champs generally don't have to worry about.

Anyway, disregarding that arbitrary buff, with 426g worth of health vs magic damage added on to the 700g (800g if Long Sword wasn't buffed for no reason) of AD and 630g of MR, you have 1756g worth of stats at level 6, 132% gold efficiency. It scales up to about 160% as you level higher with it as well. Oh and Maw hyperscales much harder than Hexdrinker since it scales off of MR as well. Maw starts off at 148% gold efficiency without a single other source of MR (including Runes) and scales very hard off of any and all other MR present from any source. It also indirectly scales from both MR (because of the shield, and the life steal, and the spell vamp) AND HP (because of the MR)

tl;dr items are bullshit.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

Just because an item is gold efficient doesn't mean it's overloaded. If that were true, then a million other items in this game would also be overloaded.

AmazoX2 votes

Gold efficiency does not equal to the item being Overloaded.

Nut on my Butt2 votes

Seriously how long is Riot going to ignore this bullshit item. There is no reason a hexdrinker's shield cd should be about the same as most lvl 1 ultimates.

DragonShea1 votes

nerf the AD by 5 and the MR by 10. So it grants 15 AD and 25 MR. that way it's not as strong in terms of stats.

Dehydration1 votes

This is a simple math

DISHONORABLE XD1 votes

NERF item 3155 !

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