ADCs can get you banned for playing a support they dont like

Big Lincoln·Feb 28, 2017·12 votes·993 views

isn't that interesting?

25 Comments

FaieFeb 28, 20179 votes

You're not being clever. Stop taking things out of context and farming upvotes.

PaquayFeb 28, 20175 votes

About as interesting as you pandering for upvotes by creating another pointless thread on this topic.

Big LincolnFeb 28, 20171 votes

implying that i care about upgoats

PaquayFeb 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x3xZ28fq,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-02-28T18:30:14.193+0000)

implying that i care about upgoats

Well, those goats are pretty darn cute. Always standing on stuff. If you don't care about them, you're a heartless bastard.

AthenasVendettaFeb 28, 20172 votes

Funny, I have played everything from support Darius Zac . I have so where does it change? Perhaps it is in the execution of the play and not the pick.

Titanium70Feb 28, 20172 votes

This is not about a game or two - The guys getting banned were Diamond/Master-Mains of their respective Champions. Do you really think it was bad execution? ^^

Riot is just showing their twisted moral once again... they pretend you're free to pick your Champions 'We dont enforce META' but they still keep Nerfing anything they dont like into the ground if multiple people are using it OR ban single players if they're the only ones using it. 'We dont enforce META, but we ban you if you get reported for not following the META'... big pile of smelly BULLSHIT!

AthenasVendettaFeb 28, 20178 votes

{quoted}

This is not about a game or two - The guys getting banned were Diamond/Master-Mains of their respective Champions. Do you really think it was bad execution? ^^

Riot is just showing their twisted moral once again... they pretend you're free to pick your Champions 'We dont enforce META' but they still keep Nerfing anything they dont like into the ground if multiple people are using it OR ban single players if they're the only ones using it. 'We dont enforce META, but we ban you if you get reported for not following the META'... big pile of smelly BULLSHIT!

Its not, when you start digging deeper these individuals typical have ulterior motives for bringing smite. For example: The singed that started this fiasco went into the enemies jungle and cheesed him...

Who else did he cheese though? -His jungler, and Adc.

In the end his jungler lost options in gameplay, and his adc had to sacrifice his farm for the sake of exp and living. The same goes for the nunu...

The meta must be agreed on by the team and not forced by a single member. For example... Me stating "I am going Nunu support with smite" means very little in the end if I just abandon my lane to abuse some jungler for a small fraction of his entire jungle. Especially when you open options for the jungler.

-easy dive bot lane -first tower, etc

It is a extremely toxic and selfish gameplay strategy being forced by a single individual. That isn't about the meta... Rather about a individual bullying and forcing styles onto his team.

Titanium70Mar 1, 20171 votes

Well than: You just stated that playing out META is toxic behavior and should be a bannable offense. OK, Alot of people are arguing that way. (Looking at Up/Downvotes.. yep indeed...)

However RIOT says it's OK to break the META and to find new ways to win games. (AKA playing a 1-1-1 set with 1 JGL and 1 Counter-JGL) STILL! They ban people who do so!

Do you really think those guys are getting reported for their wins??? Obviously not - it's the old game: You play something new -> SoloCarry OR Report! That's so busted!

Get my point: I dont argue about breaking META should be allowed or not. I just despise this damn double morale Riot is showing over and over again! (As well as the player who complain about forced META but start crying the second some tries something new during their precious games!)

What I want is clear statement from Riot: Is it allowed to use new tactics in SoloQ or not?!? YES/NO - It's simple as set.

If yes: Fine, than stop doing this bullshit!
If no: Fine as well! There's still 5v5 and Normals.

And what's this nonsense with:

It is a extremely toxic and selfish gameplay strategy being forced by a single individual. That isn't about the meta... Rather about a individual bullying and forcing styles onto his team.

Might I get an explenation what's selfish and toxic about winning games by startegy? Sure, a team has to work together - but they also have respect each others decisions! Picking Nunu is a decision only made the one player using him - how the team thinks about this is secondary.

If you try to explain your team the pros and cons and effects on JGL and ADCs playstyle in Champselect trying to convice them and get their acception you either end up never playing your champ or in a psychiatry 2 weeks later!

AthenasVendettaMar 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well than: You just stated that playing out META is toxic behavior and should be a bannable offense. OK, Alot of people are arguing that way. (Looking at Up/Downvotes.. yep indeed...)

However RIOT says it's OK to break the META and to find new ways to win games. (AKA playing a 1-1-1 set with 1 JGL and 1 Counter-JGL) STILL! They ban people who do so!

Do you really think those guys are getting reported for their wins??? Obviously not - it's the old game: You play something new -> SoloCarry OR Report! That's so busted!

Get my point: I dont argue about breaking META should be allowed or not. I just despise this damn double morale Riot is showing over and over again! (As well as the player who complain about forced META but start crying the second some tries something new during their precious games!)

What I want is clear statement from Riot: Is it allowed to use new tactics in SoloQ or not?!? YES/NO - It's simple as set.

If yes: Fine, than stop doing this bullshit!

If no: Fine as well! There's still 5v5 and Normals.

And what's this nonsense with:

Might I get an explenation what's selfish and toxic about winning games by startegy? Sure, a team has to work together - but they also have respect each others decisions! Picking Nunu is a decision only made the one player using him - how the team thinks about this is secondary.

If you try to explain your team the pros and cons and effects on JGL and ADCs playstyle in Champselect trying to convice them and get their acception you either end up never playing your champ or in a psychiatry 2 weeks later!

You are confusing "breaking the META" with the listed individuals... Whom were not breaking the meta! Those off picks were not the problem. The problem there-in lies with the individuals, not the picks, nor the strategy. People in these cases are more often than not bullying others into a style or strategy they neither want or wish for. Just because I go ____, doesn't mean that the rest of my team is okay with that. Even if I state:

"Hey, guys I am going smite bot(or where ever)" Doesn't make it okay. You have four others to work with... If one or two say: "Plz no" Well you have become a bully enforcing your wishes on those players who don't want to see it. How well the game goes it of no consequence.

A discussion is about understanding both sides. Only those how cannot understand argue. There is no double standard. I could care less if you tried something new. But, if you force it onto others in a ranked game... It becomes a different matter.

For example:

Top picks: Garen Jungle picks: Graves Mid picks: Corki Adc picks: Vayne Support(reported individual) picks: Nunu Taking summoner 4 summoner 11

Most people will say: "Please don't"

The real question would be why?

Perhaps its due to the lack of lane pressure(presence) in bottom lane? Or the lack of an exhaust to deal with that pesky Zed? The part where he is taking over part of the junglers job?

This is indeed partly why he was probably banned... Because he is forcing this onto his teammates. Its called bullying.

Does Riot allow new strategies or "breaking metas" Sure... provided the entire team is on board with it. Shit I have done everything from Morgana Lux to Leona Pantheon bot lanes and even a fucking Jhin jungle. The primary difference is I had my teams support and agreement for me to do so.

It is completely selfish to think:

"I have been winning doing this thing right here... I am going to do it no matter what!" This is literally saying I have been winning games MY way, and my teams requests and desires don't fucking matter.

Well, you want to do soemthing different copy and paste the strategy... if the team doesn't want and you do it anyway. You set yourself up for it. Some people will understand, others won't care... Some will.

Titanium70Mar 1, 20171 votes

You always 'force' your respective pick on others...

Just the level of acceptance is different. If you pick Soraka you 'force' a passive playstyle with much trades but less all ins. If you pick Leona you 'force' a hyper aggressive playstlye and your ADC better is prepared to peel for them selfe later on, because you're in the frontline. And if you pick Bard you 'force' your ADC to play passive while you're roaming accross the map..... wait a sec, that sounds familiar... (This applies on any role I just picked Supps here)

So each time your whole Team doesnt agree to this pick the report is deserved? Because the poor Team can't handle your selfish flash Ults on their carrys - because all you want to do is forcing your hyper aggressive Leona-playstlye on your Teammates? (Exaggerating here - but I hope the massege is clear)

Are you telling me your whole team was cheering your Panth/leona Lane? Obviously not. They were like... 'these guys better dont screw up'... If you do this a game or two - dont worry even with a loss it just a report or two - nothing important.

BUT... what if you realize this strategy is super effectiv has far above 50% Winrate and could easily carry you to Diamond or higher... would you not want to spam this?

You can't draw a line following your argumentation - it's impossible because it's subjective.

Is trying to make Kalista or Azir viable reportable, if your Team says no? Is playing Yasuo top reportable if you Team doesnt want you to?

Do I have to play what ever those guys in Champ select want me to play (despite the fact I dont even play said Champion) because if I dont they can report me for no communication????

ADCs can get you banned for playing a support they dont like

This is the ultimate result. I dont like something - I say so - If my Supp doesnt follow I report him for no commuication.

Picks solely belong to the Player - how your Team handles it will determin win or loss. As long as you play it to destroy the opponents Nexus it is OK! If it is succesfull - see you in Challenger. If it is not - you either rethink your approach or you do it Bronze.

AthenasVendettaMar 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You always 'force' your respective pick on others...

Just the level of acceptance is different. If you pick Soraka you 'force' a passive playstyle with much trades but less all ins. If you pick Leona you 'force' a hyper aggressive playstlye and your ADC better is prepared to peel for them selfe later on, because you're in the frontline. And if you pick Bard you 'force' your ADC to play passive while you're roaming accross the map..... wait a sec, that sounds familiar... (This applies on any role I just picked Supps here)

So each time your whole Team doesnt agree to this pick the report is deserved? Because the poor Team can't handle your selfish flash Ults on their carrys - because all you want to do is forcing your hyper aggressive Leona-playstlye on your Teammates? (Exaggerating here - but I hope the massege is clear)

Are you telling me your whole team was cheering your Panth/leona Lane? Obviously not. They were like... 'these guys better dont screw up'... If you do this a game or two - dont worry even with a loss it just a report or two - nothing important.

BUT... what if you realize this strategy is super effectiv has far above 50% Winrate and could easily carry you to Diamond or higher... would you not want to spam this?

You can't draw a line following your argumentation - it's impossible because it's subjective.

Is trying to make Kalista or Azir viable reportable, if your Team says no? Is playing Yasuo top reportable if you Team doesnt want you to?

Do I have to play what ever those guys in Champ select want me to play (despite the fact I dont even play said Champion) because if I dont they can report me for no communication????

This is the ultimate result. I dont like something - I say so - If my Supp doesnt follow I report him for no commuication.

Picks solely belong to the Player - how your Team handles it will determin win or loss. As long as you play it to destroy the opponents Nexus it is OK! If it is succesfull - see you in Challenger. If it is not - you either rethink your approach or you do it Bronze.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Bruh, slow down and think about this.

Nothing is forced if everything is accepted. You pick soraka... Great. Doesn't effect me much to care about. You pick a Blitz! Great doesn't affect me enough to care about either.

The picks like I said before hardly matter. It is the execution of the play of the individual that does. In these cases both cases they gave up lane pressure to take away from another player all the while taking away from his team. Even then the primary thing here is that they both are one tricks REFUSING to play a role. Not a certain champion.

If you as a single member in a team(random or not) say: "I am taking trundle, nunu, Singed, etc anywhere no matter what" You have already set the stage for your failure. The discussion isn't about the effects of picks in lane on the play style of that. But rather the active choices made to ignore a laner and role's responsibilities. (Setting behind the jungler-your teams- and adc).

Umm, They were. We were literally doing a couples lane... (ie: Rengar/Nidalee, Pantheon/Leona, Lulu/Veigar, etc---not the first time we have done it) Have we lost some of those games? Sure, But we stuck the basic concpet of the roles. Lulu and veigar were both resepectively support and carry. We did not roam alone to smite steal a single camp. The more important question would be; "Whom did we play with?" Answer would obviously be "Friends."

Did you stop to think maybe its not him that is the main cause to the wins? Perhaps he is riding the wave of others.

Reports can be filed for everything listed... As for the nunu and Singed They were Griefing.

The ultimate result is supported by the fact of the bans and Riot standing behind their decisions.

For example: Nunu and singed left their teammates to face laners alone. Pssstt, typically means back the fuck off the minion wave or die.

So far one individual negatively affected.

What about the jungler? Welp there goes his use for Poachers Dagger.

True picks belong to the player.... They also picked a role that is expected to be adherd to. Which neither did. The Strategy which is the core of this discussion is the point. NOT THE PICKS. The Strategy is defined by the team as a group... What Nunu and Singed did WAS FORCE a strategy, which involved smite and invading the enemy jungle.... Removing the chance of his jungler invading, and removing a safe lane for the adc, exp, and minions.

They are no more than bullies.

I have been in plat... Really don't care for ranked. besides that, The ranks have nothing to do with the point which is objective I am literally supporting everything here with facts. You can keep your opinion. But, stoop to the level that is known for egotistical players.[slayer-jinx-catface]

Peace out, you cannot grasp the point and are picking at straws to make something out of nothing.

Titanium70Mar 1, 20171 votes

But Riot does not ban for not playing a certain role. That's the busted morale here. They tell us they dont enforce a META and wont ban people looking for a new META.

They could just have stated in their ban: "The 1-1-2 +JGL is a system that have proofen the most effective one and that's why we've choosen this system the base of our matchmaking - please respect it"

I wouldn't mind! It's OK. AND it would have been a clear massage! -> Dont break META in SoloQ!

However they banned those guys for. 'No Communication' and 'Picking against the will of their team'

It's just a problem of Riots point! Either they do enforce a META THAN SAY SO! Or they dont - but spare us with those pittifull bans PLS!

Everything else we're arguing about is just a matter of personal opinions.

IMO if someone thinks a 1-1-1 + doubleJGL is better he should be allowed to play it. Because if he's right my chances to win the game just got better and if I meet him anywere out of bronze chances are high he actually has an existing winrate with it. (Favor of doubt and all... . I'd just appreciate it if said someone could tell me that before I lock in Vayne.)

Since you seem to not fully understand my point, the tldr of previous would be:

Each player should be allowed to pick and play what ever he want as long as it helps the Team win. The opinion others have about said pick or playstyle is not important.

AthenasVendettaMar 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But Riot does not ban for not playing a certain role. That's the busted morale here. They tell us they dont enforce a META and wont ban people looking for a new META.

They could just have stated in their ban: "The 1-1-2 +JGL is a system that have proofen the most effective one and that's why we've choosen this system the base of our matchmaking - please respect it"

I wouldn't mind! It's OK. AND it would have been a clear massage! -> Dont break META in SoloQ!

However they banned those guys for. 'No Communication' and 'Picking against the will of their team'

It's just a problem of Riots point! Either they do enforce a META THAN SAY SO! Or they dont - but spare us with those pittifull bans PLS!

Everything else we're arguing about is just a matter of personal opinions.

IMO if someone thinks a 1-1-1 + doubleJGL is better he should be allowed to play it. Because if he's right my chances to win the game just got better and if I meet him anywere out of bronze chances are high he actually has an existing winrate with it. (Favor of doubt and all... . I'd just appreciate it if said someone could tell me that before I lock in Vayne.)

Since you seem to not fully understand my point, the tldr of previous would be:

Each player should be allowed to pick and play what ever he want as long as it helps the Team win. The opinion others have about said pick or playstyle is not important.

The role is different than the pick. Picks are different than the role assigned. Agreed?

Riot does ban for not playing a role as intended! Especially when those are are not are griefing others on their team! Point and case... The Now infamous Singed and Nunu players.

Again both these players have forced a strategy onto others which resulted in their ban because of a repetitive nature of the type of bullying occuring.

Its not about the meta, once again. It is about individual bullying others into situations that they don't want.

Riots message is fucking clear as the when the Liberty Bell cracked on its last ring.

You can do whatever strategy you want(Riot supports this) Whether its 1 top/1 jungle/ 2 mid/ 1 bot or whatever. What the expressly do not support is one player doing something that griefs their team. IE: I am going Nunu Smite and going to abandon My bot laner for between 30 seconds and 2 minutes to deny farm that our jungler could do.

No, I am literally arguing the same fucking thing. Don't twist this because it not something you agree with. Your opinion on what strategy is stronger? Subjective and pointless to the discussion.

This entire argument is about the Nunu case if he deserves the ban. Which he fucking does.... And its not because he was "Breaking the meta"

Again you bring up nothing but personal opinion about fi you meet the guy, and what you think about a certain strategy. Sure, I would talk about strategies... However that is not what this discussion is about. There are decent players within bronze, and silver, and gold, etc. To lump everyone down there as completely bad is wrong. I have seen the full spectrum from challenger player all the way to bronze forever players.

Thats not the point though, I have seen plat and diamond players that honestly I cannot grasp how they got there. However the law of averages works in everyones favor.

He can pick whatever he wants... however he was assigned the role of Support and abandoned his responsibilities to his lane and laner. And further griefed hios jungler by limiting his options in the game. It was toxic. Period. He was picking nunu regardless of where and doing what he wanted no matter what. That makes him a bully. Period.

Now if you want to talk strategies, make another thread and I will gladly up in my 2 cents.

Titanium70Mar 2, 20171 votes

But any strategy different from classic will affect your whole team.. you could always argue it's griefing... nah w/e.

Closing, I want to make clear I never wanted to invalidate any of your opinions, you're free to think what ever you want. And I never gave any judgement opon the strategy causing this issue, which why it's not subjective on that part.

All I tried here was to give you an understanding of my positions in this case and how I'd deal with such a player.

If you agree or disagree in the end? I couldn't care less. ^^ In a discussion that's secondary - it's improtant to share the respective opinions and make people think about those opinions.

That being said I'll stick with my statement.

Each player should be allowed to pick and play what ever [AND where ever] he want as long as it helps the Team win. The opinion others have about said pick or playstyle is not important.

[Note: You can follow this ideal without opening each and every door for obvious troll picks.]

AthenasVendettaMar 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But any strategy different from classic will affect your whole team.. you could always argue it's griefing... nah w/e.

Closing, I want to make clear I never wanted to invalidate any of your opinions, you're free to think what ever you want. And I never gave any judgement opon the strategy causing this issue, which why it's not subjective on that part.

All I tried here was to give you an understanding of my positions in this case and how I'd deal with such a player.

If you agree or disagree in the end? I couldn't care less. ^^ In a discussion that's secondary - it's improtant to share the respective opinions and make people think about those opinions.

That being said I'll stick with my statement.

[Note: You can follow this ideal without opening each and every door for obvious troll picks.]

Judgement doesn't matter... Your entire argument is subjective because of;

All I tried here was to give you an understanding of my positions in this case and how I'd deal with such a player.

You cannot disagree when the "law of the land" or riot banned him for it. That is not subjective... That's objective. because it is support by the Summoners Code and the statements Riot has issued regarding the Singed Player.

I made it clear I was arguing why he was banned, and that it was a just and good one. Whether you agree with Riot's decision doesn't really matter.

Like I have said before: You want to discuss game strategies, create a thread. Like right now you want to open a discussion with Riot and debate the merits of banning and what is just or not then open a new thread. This was solely about whether or not Banning Nunu was wrong or right. In the end you cannot argue he was not griefing his team or bullying. You can however, try to argue the merits of What is Meta, What is trolling, What is Griefing...?

in the end you are arguing an entire different line of thought and challenging definitions of these things.

"Each player should be allowed to pick and play what ever [AND where ever] he want as long as it helps the Team win. The opinion others have about said pick or playstyle is not important."

I think this would protect too many from intentionally griefing, feeding, and trolling. Whether it was a win or not is subjective to the issue. I would think that riot has found a balance of some kind to what everyone believes is griefing, etc is...(This is by no means saying it is perfect, however it is the best from right now)

In your definition, technically I could argue that I was trying to win... Even if I took Soraka anywhere. (provided I win more than I lose which isn't hard)

You have a way to go to even try and compete with Riots definition and 'law' of the rift. However if you keep refining it, you might one day replace it with a better version.

Azure HamsterFeb 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Funny, I have played everything from support . I have so where does it change? Perhaps it is in the execution of the play and not the pick.

I love Zac support!

Caitlyn

WoodakoodashoodaFeb 28, 20172 votes

What's more interesting is Riot invented yet another new term to explain the terrible way with which they handle things.

"edge cases"

I don't know what it is, exactly, but it sounds very made up just so they can go on doing whatever they feel like.

PaquayFeb 28, 20172 votes

I actually agree with this. I think this was handled poorly on Riot's end. Mainly due to not having a system that can earn players or take any preventative steps before punishing them.

The whole situation could have been avoided if Riot had a system that they could send an in game alert to the player and write out he issue. Basically if Wookiee had let him know dozens of games ago, the same exact post he sent out, then all this could have been avoided.

I won't say it's a bad system, but it has the glaring flaw.

BladeSteelFeb 28, 20171 votes

And yet I don't think he would have changed considering his post on it. "I am a nunu one trick and I will only play nunu and the rest of you have to change to what I want to play"

PaquayFeb 28, 20171 votes

Maybe, maybe not. There really is no way to tell. But if Riot did implement something like this to warn players in these "edge cases", then it puts the onus on them.

AnagsFeb 28, 20171 votes

I agree. I also find it funny that Riot is banning people like this when scripters and bot accounts go unbanned for extended periods of time.

Sounds legit.

PaquayFeb 28, 20171 votes

Yeah. Although fighting scripters and stuff is a major challenge for any online game, there are ways to do it.

I get the argument that "you can't stop people from making bit accounts" and yes it's true. You can, however, take away their motivation to create the account. I would venture to guess that the majority of these are leveled up so that they can be sold as smurf accounts.

If Riot had level 30 accounts for purchase, it would remove the incentive for players to purchase smurf accounts. That would remove the incentive of botters constantly creating bot accounts and leveling to 30. Since it is a digital good and wouldn't cost Riot anything (once the system was in place), they could just massively undercut the competition.

If you were to pay say $30 for a typical smurf account, Riot could just charge $15. Or if they try and go lower, sell it at $10. Either way, it's a safe alternative for players to use and a reduced price and it would help to eliminate all those annoying bot accounts.

I do think (as others have mentioned) that you should be required to have a level 30 account in order to purchase a smurf account. Also, another caveat would be that the account needs to currently be in good standing. Basically, if you can't get Hextech, you can't purchase a smurf account. I guess if you're banned on one account you could ban all the linked ones, but that would open the door and create a niche market for the botters to sell to toxic/permabanned players.

It would take a lot of tinkering around with, but I think it's a step towards a viable solution for the bot problem. Also, Riot makes more money, so they can't complain about that.

Tldr: I rambled on about Riot and how they should sell smurf accounts.

sobi999Feb 28, 20172 votes

Well after the lethality crap making traditional supp useless, i left playing supp. Gl riot finding more of us, bc you really didn't appreciate the supp mains and now you get trolls instead.