Another Solution to tank meta: Buff Zeke's Herald

LilxPaprika··13 votes·2,291 views

If enemy is stacking thornmail solution buy 1 zeke herald on your team. Kind of like how aegis and abysal cancel each other out same could be for thornmail zeke's. Zeke's passive is strong but the item iself is meh for the person using it. I propose removing the extra damage on its aura and redirect/focus the stats toward making the item more attractive for the character using it.

Stats +300 health +20% cooldown reduction +25 ad +5% life steal Aura UNIQUE: Nearby allied champions gain +20 attack damage and +10% life steal. (1100 Range)

Since bruiser/fighters champions cant offer their adc as much peel as well as tanks, at least they could get's zeke as a form of assistance. Also as a top laner getting zeke you comprimise your lane dominance top lane considerably. This buff would keep your threat level high enough that the enemy might think twice before rivaling you.

supports have enough support items to choose from already and even if they were to get zeke it would be late into the game and preferable after they got ice born gauntlet. Most other support items synergize with support genre more. Even for the support champion that might run iceborngauntlet into zeke the recommended changes wouldn't compromise it.

or What if you zeke did not have an aura but instead was like nunu's blood boil. instead of being an aura you apply it to an ally. you could have 2 charges kind of like smite and use it on up to two champions. 1 charge every 30 seconds. lasts 6 seconds.

33 Comments

Variks the Loyal10 votes

Vampiric Scepter builds into enough stuff. How about...

Brutalizer + Kindlegem

350 Health 20% CDR 30 Attack Damage

Unique AURA: Aura of Shattering: Reduces Armor of nearby enemies by 20.

It'll be good on both melee, tanky supports, and AD Casters who favor the flat pen of Brutalizer over the new Black Cleaver.

Silents4295 votes

That is a whole hell of a lot of stats we don't like bruisers having.

Venowolf4 votes

Kindlegem builds into enough stuff. How about...

item 3050

item 3134 Brutalizer + item 1053 Vampiric Scepter

Stats:

10% CDR 25 Attack Damage

Aura UNIQUE: Nearby allied champions gain +10 attack damage, +10 Armor Penetration and +10% life steal. (1100 Range)

It'll be good on both melee, tanky supports, and AD Casters who favor the flat pen of Brutalizer over the new Black Cleaver.

Since bruiser/fighters champions cant offer their adc as much peel as well as tanks, at least they could get's zeke as a form of assistance. Also as a top laner getting zeke you comprimise your lane dominance top lane considerably. This buff would keep your threat level high enough that the enemy might think twice before rivaling you.

LilxPaprika2 votes

its true: The cdr (and maybe the hp) is really what makes it identified as a support item. I just think it would shine more if it was geared more towards fighters. itll still be somewhat viable on supports but mostly those who themselves can derive something out of it.

the item currently is designed such that if you derived nothing from it its still good. which seems kind of counter intuitive. for those champions who do buy it to get maximum use out of the lifesteal, they have other ways of getting cdr and hp elsewhere.

at end of the day neither (supports nor figthers) really buy it since it doesn't do as good a job of comprehensively meeting their individual and team oriented needs.

Dandymann2 votes

I like this meta, I honestly think it's the healthiest we've had in a long time

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

I like this meta, I honestly think it's the healthiest we've had in a long time

what if i told you this wouldn't change the meta. people can already buy zeke and do even on characters like jarvan, olaf... they'll just have a bit more to go on/contribute with as an individual with zeke. I think what is the main factor that will always keep zeke's herald gated from being too strong is its maximum amount of stats/price point. By keeping it as a 2450 gold item you're already setting yourself back a bit/sacrificing total potential 6 item worth of stats by getting it. you could have randuins omen or a hydra or a black cleaver instead.

The Bíg Ticket2 votes

Thats not a buff but a nerf.

junglerboy162 votes

Erm, Tank meta doesn't need "fixing".

Zeke's is already a strong item (it is just a lot of invisible power that leaves it incredibly underrated) and the fact that tank meta gets countered by double AD comps which are in turn strengthened by Zeke's substantially already means it doesn't need buffs. The issue it has is that it has a reputation for not being great, and most people don't think about how valuable it is even in a normal match if your ADC is fed.

qetzel1 votes

I don't think Riot wants to buff Auras - they are on a mission to remove invisible power.

LilxPaprika2 votes

{quoted}

I don't think Riot wants to buff Auras - they are on a mission to remove invisible power.

The aura portion is nerfed in the recommendation I made. http://imgur.com/he2WFis

If you mean nerf items with aura. Well it isn't so much a buff as a redistribution of stats. Its a buff to the wearer as it takes on a bit more of the form of a regular item.

The nunu blood boil example would entirely remove the aura. Either case... You leave me wondering if you read anything but the title.

Edit my fault I take it you were replying in part to crewx's suggestion? I see

qetzel1 votes

Sorry. I thought I had pushed the reply button.

LilxPaprika1 votes

I will say this however the one thing that does come to mind where I think a case could legitimately be made against buffing zeke. I think if there was any argument that could be made its the idea of having a tank lifesteal item. In which case I give you / suggest riot takes another look at exhibit A: Nasus With a straight face, what was your concern again with tanky sustain items?

But even so, I don't think the figures I gave would make it so tanky.

UPfreely1 votes

but nasus generally wants armor/MR to increase the effectiveness of his sustain, mostly health items like this would be kinda meh on him.

Sirsir1 votes

Yes but it would give him a cheap CDR alternative to Heart, whose aura isn't always very good.

UPfreely1 votes

this iteration is really similar to the current zeke's herald. if he doesn't like the current one i cant see him liking this one. also if frozen heart isn't a good buy he usually goes with item 3025 , he really needs the mana.

Im starting to feel like they should just change to aura to give lifesteal AND spellvamp so it can help everyone on your team. Though maybe they could also buff the base tank stats a bit.

OhOkYea1 votes

Personally, I only think zeke's need an HP increase(or a massive cost decrease). The aura isn't that great by the time you can finish the item, but it's still there. It would be a fantastic 20% CDR support item, but the hp is way too low to justify getting it over so many other items.

GuiltyGecko4 votes

I think Zeke's is fine as it is really. Currently, if Zeke is affecting all 5 champions with it's aura, it's the most cost effective item in the game (It's also still cost effective even when you're alone). It's really good if you have 3 champions on your team that are AD based too.

Then again, I get it on supports instead of bruisers/tanks so maybe that's why I am getting more use out of it.

OhOkYea1 votes

{quoted}

I think Zeke's is fine as it is really. Currently, if Zeke is affecting all 5 champions with it's aura, it's the most cost effective item in the game (It's also still cost effective even when you're alone). It's really good if you have 3 champions on your team that are AD based too.

Then again, I get it on supports instead of bruisers/tanks so maybe that's why I am getting more use out of it.

I wouldn't build it on anything but a support, simply because the hp is too low and only because it comes with 20% cdr. It may be cost effective when you have more AD champs than AP, but that's also only true if they are AA focused champs. The biggest issue I have is that there's aren't many other support items that give CDR and tanky stats for champs like Leona. They are there, but they are lackluster. If zeke's could have a tweak, it would be the perfect item. Either a cost reduction, or an HP increase. Counter this by removing the AD bonus or something. Hell, I'd even take it with 10% cdr if the HP was higher.

250 hp just doesn't justify rushing it over other items more useful or more tanky. The aura isn't very helpful if you're dead or if you're gimping yourself as a support by not getting something else.

Zarxis1 votes

I think the aura would be much more valuable to a team if it also provided a small amount of spell vamp. There are quite a few champions that don't benefit much from lifesteal or AD (if at all).

It Hertz When IP1 votes

I believe item 3152 used to do that.

Linna Excel1 votes

Zeke's herald needs an armor pen aura because if you are getting it, your team is already too AD heavy and the other team will only need to build armor resistance.

Drukyul1 votes

replace 10% of the CDR with more HP

fixed

grLKQ9ma0o1 votes

Make it a support item that has no use on a top laner, then. Don't give it lifesteal.

Sirsir1 votes

...I'm sorry but how does removing the AD aura help Zekes? You would need to add a LOT more than 5% LS and 50 HP to make Zekes worth it...

The way I see it you can make it into either a Tank based item (lots of HP, lower AD aura) or a bruiser based item (add some AD to the item but take it from the passive)

650 HP 20% CDR Aura: Nearby allied champions gain +10 attack damage and +10% life steal Cost: increased to 2800 or so

OR

250 HP 20% CDR 25 AD Aura: Nearby allied champions gain +10 attack damage and +10% life steal

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

...I'm sorry but how does removing the AD aura help Zekes?

Sorry thanks for pointing that out ya i made edit to OP. ya you would keep the AD it gave you. added this line: +25 ad

Sirsir1 votes

Ah, right on.

Still it needs some AD in the Aura, thats where the gold is, I would go 15 on the item 10 on the Aura

SexyTaylorSwift1 votes

We don't need a "solution" to tank meta. The game is more diverse than it has ever been....and I mostly play ADC. I'm glad you actually have a chance to play a non Lee Sin jungler.

AFK Push1 votes

If the enemy is stacking item 3075 then that is the only time when I endorse double sustain item 3153 item 3072.

This however, could be one of the only viable ad support items, so I do like it in that aspect.

IcyPepper1 votes

40% lifesteal tho... damn.

ready for combat1 votes

i think it should build out of item 3097 + item 3067 and be like this

+380 Health +20% Cooldown Reduction +50% Base Health Regen Passive UNIQUE - SPOILS OF WAR: Melee auto attacks execute minions below 400 (+100% AD) health. Killing a minion by any means heals yourself and the nearest allied champion for 50 (+1% of your maximum health) health and grants them gold equal to the kill. These effects require a nearby allied champion and consume a charge. Recharges every 30 seconds for a maximum of 4 charges.

Active UNIQUE: clicking on an area drops a flag granting +6 (+1 per lvl) attack damage and +25% increased health regen to ally's in the area. kills in the area reduce the cooldown by 10 seconds. (cooldown 60 seconds)

and the range could probably be 1000 units or so

ready for combat1 votes

all though the active could be better i think

ready for combat1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ready for combat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x0mXfN8F,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2015-04-20T06:07:38.378+0000)

i think it should build out of item 3097 + item 3067 and be like this

+380 Health +20% Cooldown Reduction +50% Base Health Regen Passive UNIQUE - SPOILS OF WAR: Melee auto attacks execute minions below 400 (+100% AD) health. Killing a minion by any means heals yourself and the nearest allied champion for 50 (+1% of your maximum health) health and grants them gold equal to the kill. These effects require a nearby allied champion and consume a charge. Recharges every 30 seconds for a maximum of 4 charges.

Active UNIQUE: clicking on an area drops a flag granting +6 (+1 per lvl) attack damage and +25% increased health regen to ally's in the area. kills in the area reduce the cooldown by 10 seconds. (cooldown 60 seconds)

and the range could probably be 1000 units or so

i just had a better idea.....maybe: ** +380 Health +15% Cooldown Reduction +50% Base Health Regen** Passive UNIQUE - SPOILS OF WAR: Melee auto attacks execute minions below 400 (+100% AD) health. Killing a minion by any means heals yourself and the nearest allied champion for 50 (+1% of your maximum health) health and grants them gold equal to the kill. These effects require a nearby allied champion and consume a charge. Recharges every 30 seconds for a maximum of 4 charges.

Active UNIQUE: You expel a charge sending out a pulse healing nearby ally's for 50 (+5 per lvl) +0.8% of your maximum health and for the next 4 seconds grant 8 (+1 per level) bonus magic damage to their basic attacks (max charges 2) also goes on cooldown for 15 seconds before you can use another charge. kills and assists reduce the cooldown of a charge by 5 seconds. (60 second cooldown)

just my idea of what it could do differently but retain some of the mechanics the Aura gave.

r11na1 votes

Tanks are viable now as are all other classes of champs, nothing to 'solve'.

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