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Titanic Hydra is only 78%cost effective w/o passive

LilxPaprika··12 votes·1,722 views

did you know titanic is 78% cost effective now? while ravenous is 96% I agree with making titanic hydra less cost effective than ravenous. that's a no brainer since its less risky. However making it nearly 20% less cost effective might of been too much.

Prior to the nerf it was the suggested build for Aatrox on champion.gg now its hardly listed as core build on any champion.

Suggestion give it +5 ad +100% base health regen out of combat.

i think this could be a great item on him Aatrox. Since he can get his health back while jungling, clearing camps faster using blood price more often. item 3065 item 3742 item 3748 item 1403 item 3153

Devourer being removed means titanic won't be as op as it used to be in the jungle.

this way its closer to 10% less cost effective which I think is more fair. replacing some of its raw stats into utility keeps it from being too strong in battle but handy over extended durations.

With ravenous you can replenish your hp a lot out of combat, this would help stand up to that.

22 Comments

underscores22212 votes

But the passive gives you additional damage on hit (5+1% hp) and in a cone (40+2.5% hp), plus the active does even more damage (40+10% hp). Ravenous just does 20-60% of ad on hit and 60-100% on active.

By the numbers:

250 AD gives Rav 50-150 bonus damage on hit, 150-250 bonus on active

To match, Titanic requires about 4500 total HP (50 damage per hit) but the active does a whopping 490 damage. In addition, the damage is not reduced by distance, so you can active a minion and kill someone behind it.

Titanic's passive/active is way stronger.

Doctor Jarvis1 votes

^ All of this.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

But the passive gives you additional damage on hit (5+1% hp) and in a cone (40+2.5% hp), plus the active does even more damage (40+10% hp). Ravenous just does 20-60% of ad on hit and 60-100% on active.

By the numbers:

250 AD gives Rav 50-150 bonus damage on hit, 150-250 bonus on active

To match, Titanic requires about 4500 total HP (50 damage per hit) but the active does a whopping 490 damage. In addition, the damage is not reduced by distance, so you can active a minion and kill someone behind it.

Titanic's passive/active is way stronger.

Yeah, the absolute bare minimum, level 1 Anivia, gets 14 physical damage on hit which is about 500 gold's worth of AD, which already takes Titanic Hydra up to 92% efficiency. And obviously the champions buying Titanic Hydra are going to have more base hp than Anivia and be higher level than 1.

It's actually kind of astonishing that Titanic Hydra used to have even more base power on it.

LankPants2 votes

Yeah, the absolute bare minimum, level 1 Anivia, gets 14 physical damage on hit which is about 500 gold's worth of AD, which already takes Titanic Hydra up to 92% efficiency.

Actually a lv 1 Anivia gets 0 damage from the passive and active, she's ranged.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

Actually a lv 1 Anivia gets 0 damage from the passive and active, she's ranged.

dang, forgot that. Then the lowest base hp MELEE champion is Katarina at 510. She would gain 510 + 450 = 960 960 * 0.01 = 9.6 9.6 + 5 = 14.6 bonus physical damage on-hit, functionally equivalent to 511 gold's worth of AD on her auto attacks.

SlaktarTasken3 votes

I've stopped building it on Voli and have started to go BC, Ravenous or Botrk as my only damage item instead (given there's another soak on my team) with greater success. Sad to see this great jugg item get destroyed because non jugg champs were abusing it. That being said, it seems to still be really good on Shyvana, but that's the only one I can think of.

LilxPaprika3 votes

The thing keeping it viable with shyvana is probably devourer. With the change, unless she build cibderhulk rageblade at 3600 gold I doubt it'll be worth while unless you're already snowballing. Titanic isn't cheap either.

SlaktarTasken2 votes

{quoted}

The thing keeping it viable with shyvana is probably devourer. With the change, unless she build cibderhulk rageblade at 3600 gold I doubt it'll be worth while unless you're already snowballing. Titanic isn't cheap either.

Very true.

The Deckowner2 votes

did u know that Zhonyas' active alone cost nearly 1k gold?

LilxPaprika1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XH1fPJxg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-27T01:26:21.456+0000)

did u know that Zhonyas' active alone cost nearly 1k gold?

Zhonya's Hourglass is 87.86% gold efficient without its active.

Titanic Is 78.0%

Its easier to compare with ravenous as zhonya active is pretty unique. Hard to put a value on a TF ult plus zhonya. Incredibly useful.

The Deckowner1 votes

Yet Hourglass' active only for defensive use, and it cost a shit ton. BTW not every TF is Masaya. Zhonyas for 90% of the time is only for dodging Zed ult proc. mean while titanic hydra's passive provides wave clear and HP scaling dmg. Those are actual numbers and stats that are gained and can be translated into calculable values.

TotalJerk4 votes

Please stop trying to hijack this thread with this apples-to-oranges comparison.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

Please stop trying to hijack this thread with this apples-to-oranges comparison.

All the "gold efficiency" comparisons are apples-to-oranges. Comparing a BF sword to four long swords ignores the value of three inventory slots on one hand, and the value of being able to buy one at a time on the other. If two long swords built into a pickaxe, and a pickaxe and long sword into BF sword, the "gold efficiency" of those items wouldn't change at all -- but there would be an actual effect on gameplay for champions that use those items or anything that builds from them.

And it only gets worse once you start comparing higher tier items with unique powers and explicitly ignoring those powers.

Evaluating how powerful an item really is is hard, and no job for a computer.

Sire Hippington2 votes

or give it+50-100 hp to further establish it as the tanky hydra opposed to the agressive ravenous

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

titanic passive gets u on hit th primary target = more damage.

so it gives about half the ad that ravenous gives. no lifesteal. but health ok the titanic passive is a lot stronger.

imo. make titanic 200-300 cheaper. dont buff its stats because its too good of a package. was it op? yes it was. thats why its got nerfed. but i feel like it should be cheaper than ravenous. simply because ravenous has lifesteal. why doesn't titanic have spell vamp for ad damage like death dance or something. give it more sustain. increased healing.

LilxPaprika2 votes

It has a longer cooldown. You can typically get two ravenous active off in team fights. Also going by the numbers, people are not building it much anymore. I think this speaks volumes.

Ravenous has a lot going for it as well with aoe lifesteal.

I would be curious to see a comparison in win rate on it on fiora. Fiora is a champion that pretty much syngergizes equally with either items so I would expect a pretty even win rate.

I want it to stay relevant is all, just don't want to have to question if I'm making a poor item choice when building it.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

It has a longer cooldown. You can typically get two ravenous active off in team fights. Also going by the numbers, people are not building it much anymore. I think this speaks volumes.

The volumes that most people are reading into it are that Sunfire Cape and IBG are OP and pushing certain tank champs to the forefront of the meta in addition to pushing out other options for itemization.

Karma Deified2 votes

5 AD!

Arakadia1 votes

How do you calculate cost efficiency btw?

Zorasama1 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Gold_efficiency "One way of deriving a stat's gold value is from the least expensive basic item that provides only that stat." Like, Long Sword (350g) gives 10 AD, then 1 AD is 35g.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

How do you calculate cost efficiency btw?

Estimate the value of individual stats using the simplest items that provide those stats. AD is most easily gained by a long sword so long sword is used to determine the value of AD. 350 gold for 10 AD means that 1 AD is worth about 35 gold.

It's not a perfect system, but it can give you a decent idea of how much raw power your champion is getting out of an item and can also weigh the more difficult-to-price parts of an item to see whether or not you want it.

As another example, you can look at Executioner's Calling. Executioner's calling is 800 gold for 15 AD and a grievous wounds debuff. 15 AD is worth about 525 gold by our long sword calculation, meaning we're basically spending the remaining 275 gold JUST on the grievous wounds debuff. Is that gold worth the debuff? Well, we could get an average of about 8 more AD for that gold if we were to invest it in a different item... we can weigh the damage that would give us vs. how much healing we would prevent against our target. The decision still isn't exactly easy from this point, but 8 AD vs. the grievous wounds debuff is certainly a much simpler context than trying to evaluate Executioner's calling in a vacuum.

Surr20plz1 votes

they need to increase the health to damage ratio to make up for taking away the AD

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