Is Devourer really needed?

Zuil·Sep 26, 2015·77 votes·2,885 views

Probably a stupid question but it just seems so strong. Being able to solo dragon at lvl 6 without being Fiddles or Warwick while being able to melt tanks comfortably just hints that maybe this item is too strong. Attack speed junglers (Udyr, Xin Zhao, Shyvana, Warwick, etc) run the meta pretty well atm with devourer when these junglers could easily be comfy with one of the other 3 enchantments (Warrior, Cinderhulk & Runeglaive). I wouldn't mind this game without devourer tbh for the sake of different jungle picks.

EDIT: Too the people who say Devourer is what makes certain junglers viable (Nocturne ex) could be the sign a champion needs a buff instead.

EDIT2: The dragon comment I made above I guess doesn't make sense, but it basically makes it much easier to solo dragon at a lower lvl when you shouldn't be able to.

107 Comments

SlyfoxkanSep 26, 201517 votes

{quoted}

Being able to solo dragon at lvl 6 without being Fiddles or Warwick

im sorry what? who gets sated at level 6 ._. ...also plenty other champs can solo drag low levels, even that new champ kindred can.

IcyPepperSep 26, 20151 votes

Question is, how many champions can solo drags at low levels?

If we get a pool of those, and determine which jungle items they usually take, we can make a fair assessment on the statement you quoted.

And I'm pretty sure Kindred will be a sated jungler :<

The Yetii RiderSep 27, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Question is, how many champions can solo drags at low levels?

If we get a pool of those, and determine which jungle items they usually take, we can make a fair assessment on the statement you quoted.

And I'm pretty sure Kindred will be a sated jungler :<

Champs that can solo drag early: Nunu Fiddlesticks Nunu Aatrox Nunu Warwick Nunu Nidalee

A Miss FortuneSep 27, 20153 votes

The Yeti knows the early dragon.

YumaS2AstralSep 27, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Champs that can solo drag early:

MasterYi can also solo dragon early - with ult and proper use of both his passive and his E, he can solo dragon.

The Yetii RiderSep 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

can also solo dragon early - with ult and proper use of both his passive and his E, he can solo dragon.

Generally when we talk about "early" dragons we mean pre-6. Yi can solo dragon but does need his ult to do so, so he's not an early dragon taker.

Big LincolnSep 28, 20151 votes

no he doesn't, you can do it at level 2/3 with pots and good use of your Q

LankPantsSep 27, 20154 votes

Also Elise MasterYi Shyvana Olaf Chogath Tryndamere Shaco and Nunu

GastonBarnaclesSep 27, 20152 votes

+YORICK easiest.

Autrah FangSep 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Champs that can solo drag early:

i've seen panth do it even without a jungle item... sure, he had to go B first, but i've definitely seen it.

Tails DollSep 27, 20152 votes

That was when Drag AA could be blocked by his passive.

Karn BishopSep 27, 20151 votes

Vi can do it at level 4 with 2-3 healing pots, just Q over drag wall in case they have river warded.

SkoonieSep 28, 20151 votes

Nasus can as well, once he hits 6. Passive %HP shred and all.

SH AzykanSep 27, 20152 votes

every champion except Azir can take a lv3 drag, guy made a youtube video of it P:

IcyPepperSep 27, 20151 votes

Even Soraka?

SH AzykanSep 27, 20152 votes

yeah though his Soraka, Sona, and Janna Rune/mastery pages were kinda weird. He was able to do it.

He finally got Azir to take it as a level 3, buy buying like an extra 4 cloth armors lol

MatezoideSep 26, 201510 votes

Literally nobody likes Devourer outside of the players that actually build it.

ZuilSep 26, 20153 votes

I use it and I know for a fact it is OP and isn't needed.

ARequestOfDeathSep 28, 20151 votes

yea kinda like the wild fire (feral flare)

MrWasjigSep 28, 20151 votes

I don't like it but I build it. Why? You might ask? Because it's literally freelo (just like the juggernauts) Sure it may not be as much now they nerfed it. But it's a case of, sure, you CAN build something else but this is just outright better.

I'm glad it's disabled, hopefully it will be permanent then we'll see more diversity again and the meta won't be AS Junglers every other fucking game.

TehNACHOSep 26, 20156 votes

Being able to solo dragon at level 2 and 3 with all sorts of champions has been a thing since Preseason 5 you know. It's not a problem with Devourer, it's a problem with how weak the Dragon is early.

Furthermore, Devourer is the definition of a DPS item. DPS is supposed to melt tanks. What you should be complaining about is when tanky champions have Devourer, build mostly tank, and still are melting other tanks anyway.

PartholonianSep 26, 20154 votes

{quoted}

What you should be complaining about is when tanky champions have Devourer, build mostly tank, and still are melting other tanks anyway.

Except that doesn't actually happen -- to melt tanks you also need BOTRK, which is close to half your item build (more than half until super late game) being devoted to offense. Especially if you get the BOTRK second, even Shyvana is squishy as hell with that build until 35+ min. (Watch the games where Hai did it for example -- the only reason he could get away with it was that Balls was building tank and initiating for him.)

Devourer+BOTRK may be too strong (I'm inclined to blame the BOTRK more, considering how well each item does without the other), but it does come at a definite cost in tankiness in the early to mid game.

Anyway, I asked a long time ago if it was really necessary for the AA jungler item to also be a hard farming/stacking jungler item, I could see it being reworked to be something more like Wits End that just has a fixed level of AS and onhit related stats and dropping the sated transform. But I'm not as opposed to it in its current form (or upcoming nerfed form) as some people, either.

My Waifu VanillaSep 27, 20152 votes

It's all about that Devourer+Titanic Hydra+Juggernaut build on Xin/Noct/Yi. "Just CC the Yi and kill him" doesn't apply when he has 600 MS and 3500 health.

The Yetii RiderSep 26, 20154 votes

The jungle is divided into three categories. Ganking, Farming, and Control.

Farming junglers, by definition, spend most of their game time farming. They attempt to use the lack of pressure to farm up much more guaranteed CS than if they were in lane taking harass, and endeavor to get enough gold to pull a full item ahead of their opponent by the late game and carry their team. This niche is important and is easily countered by early game pressure and some clever counterjungling and vision.

The Feral Flare item was added specifically because ganking is too strong, and there needs to be some incentive to play a jungler that doesn't gank. In this case, there needs to be a LOT of incentive, because ganking is such a guaranteed early game advantage these days thanks to mobility creep and the Chilling Smite ability.

Feral Flare was overtuned, nerfed into oblivion, then reworked into the original OP Devourer. Now that item has been reworked into the current Sated system.

The problem with Feral Flare was it gave too much sustain. The problem with Devourer was its synergy with Challenging Smite. The problem with the Sated Devourer is different. The problem with the Sated Devourer isn't that its passive is inherently game-breaking, it is that the passive changes the dynamic of farming junglers. Farming junglers have always been late game carries that pull ahead despite their team being behind from early game pressure. However, with some champions hitting Sated as early as 16 minutes, it becomes a genuine issue. Devourer can curb stomp through the mid game, especially because most melee combat currently is a stat check, and Sated Devourer's stats are beyond godlike.

So, Devourer doesn't need to be removed, certainly. It helps farming junglers because ganking junglers will just out gold them otherwise. It doesn't need to have its passive changed (though that is coming). What needs to happen is that the passive needs to stack slower. I propose that dragon only give 2 stacks instead of the current 5, and that Rift Scuttle only give 1. That way the item becomes much more consistent and much less snowbally.

Old Man TeetoSep 27, 20153 votes

Devourer is intended for auto-attack reliant junglers. Cinderhulk is intended for durable tanky junglers. Runeglaive is meant for AP junglers, who auto attack in their rotation. Warrior is meant for AD junglers who have good AD ratios on abilities.

Technically, we need a 5'th for Fiddlesticks/Karthus etc who don't want to auto-attack frequently, then to make them all balanced between each other.

ARequestOfDeathSep 28, 20151 votes

sorry but when did fiddle ever upgrade his machete?

Jungle Lux GodSep 26, 20152 votes

In my opinion, Sated Devourer is a pretty cool item mechanically, but probably isn't needed.

Everyone can use at least one of the other three jungle enchantments right now because the other three jungle enchantments cover every single kind of stat that a jungler could possibly want. At the same time, it offers a cool item with cool synergies with certain champions that could use it pretty well.

Dar RaksadaSep 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

In my opinion, Sated Devourer is a pretty cool item mechanically, but probably isn't needed.

Everyone can use at least one of the other three jungle enchantments right now because the other three jungle enchantments cover every single kind of stat that a jungler could possibly want. At the same time, it offers a cool item with cool synergies with certain champions that could use it pretty well.

item 3070 Fiddlesticks

Not like fidd uses devourer though.

ARequestOfDeathSep 28, 20151 votes

ad fid jungle??????????????????

Dar RaksadaSep 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

ad fid jungle??????????????????

that doesn't really work, I was referring to the fact that fiddle can't use any of the jungle enchantments properly.

SukishooSep 26, 20152 votes

I think you mean 2 enchantments, Cinder and Rune cause no one like Warrior these days xD

GrReaper96Sep 26, 20152 votes

What is this "warrior" u talk about?

SingadySep 26, 20151 votes

LeeSin JarvanIV Gangplank Fiora Gnar (maybe) Tryndamere Trundle Rengar Riven RekSai Skarner MonkeyKing Nasus ..........................

Doctor JarvisSep 26, 20152 votes

Yep. Yep (though he could use Cinderhulk if he wanted). That's not a jungler. Yep. Yep (though, as you noted, he too could just grab Cinderhulk). Yep. Yep. Yep (but I see so many Renegers not even finish their machete? Is that a thing with him?). Yep. Yep (Cinderhulk though). Yep (Cinderhulk though). Yep. Definitely should only build Cinderhulk. IN THAT ORDER. Also you forgot Shaco

SukishooSep 26, 20153 votes

Lets see

LeeSin eh.. JarvanIV item 3717 Gangplank the hell he doin in the jg? Personally though I build him with item 3718 Fiora gets stepped on by dragon Gnar (lolwat) Tryndamere maybe Trundle Rengar The hell is a jungle item? (says 95% of rengar players) Riven (get out of the jg and the game) RekSai Skarner item 3717 MonkeyKing (He's still part of this game?!) Nasus Susans don't jungle.

PePsiLemoNNSep 27, 20151 votes

Gangplank Fiora Gnar Riven Nasus jungle ? Is that a joke ?

SingadySep 28, 20151 votes

Fiora is pushing it but the rest I've seen as completely viable jungle picks

KeevalroySep 26, 20152 votes

Riot refuses to accept that this item doesn't work.

MorganFreemanBotSep 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Riot refuses to accept that this item doesn't work.

The item does work.

There should be a "carry" or "farm centric" jungle item, there's nothing wrong with such a thing. It should also scale up to being very scary, letting people carry from the jungle by heavy farming is not a problem.

As someone who built devourer well before Sated, I really liked the old iteration better.

ARequestOfDeathSep 28, 20151 votes

feral flare

Voluug13Sep 27, 20152 votes

Yes and No.

Aatrox and Noc needed the boost in power.

Yi, Vi and Shyvana didnt, as always.

Slamurai JackSep 27, 20152 votes

We need counterplay as a jungler when the enemy team picks a bunch of champions that are impossible to gank. Think Fizz top, Morgana mid, and Ezreal Janna bot. If the enemy team is going to play in a way that makes you unable to impact the game through ganking, farming needs to be a fallback option.

BluePolarizerSep 26, 20151 votes

Udyr is terrible.

ARequestOfDeathSep 28, 20151 votes

trick2g will fuck you up

BluePolarizerSep 28, 20151 votes

I don't watch streams that don't benefit me.

ARequestOfDeathSep 28, 20151 votes

he is diamond 2. he is also a youtuber

Autrah FangSep 27, 20151 votes

i've seen Udyr and Panth jungle solo dragon pretty effectively without devourer's though... the Panth didn't even have a jungle item.... both examples were also before lvl 6...

ZavernSep 27, 20152 votes

Udyr is unique. He was basically made for the jungle and being able to solo Dragon at/pre-6 is what he is known for.

Aych PiiSep 28, 20151 votes

Yes. Most of these champions (meaning all the ones that can do it now, meaning probably not Kayle) could solo dragon pre-6 before the devourer changes because that was never an amazing thing, you prevent it through warding and good map awareness. And all of the successful devourer users are pubstompers that capitalize on people lacking the knowledge to play around them, I suggest you play a few games on one of them to learn their weaknesses a little better.

Lady HammerlockSep 28, 20151 votes

you should take a look at kindred in a vid or something the speed at which he kills drag is disgusting