Blah blah blah Diversity
I don't know any clever titles, but if I had a dime for every time I went against a Lux or Zed, i'd have enough money to bribe Riot to nerf both of them.
140 Comments
Verdade25 votesOh no, Zed OP. Better ban malphite, nautilus, rammus and kench Oh no, Lux OP. Better leave her open and pick immobile short-ranged mage
Arakadia21 votesWell... thats counterpick not counterplay. I should be able to pick whatever champion I want and still be able to fight her if we're equal in gold. I just have to do it right. Lux has great scaling, range, safety, AoE CC, super low CD strong ult, only 2 normal skillshots to aim, and a AoE sheild...
Not saying she's broken, but she could be toned down a bit.
Dengeden3 votesThat's the sort of thing that kills diversity. Heck it's arguably impossible. If I could play any mid into any mid, I'd just pick the safest one.
da glorious5 votesThat's mostly true, except there are some champions that counter others by nature.
will always stomp 
Any ranged champion ever will beat 
(that's a little exaggerated, but u get the point.)
It's less true for lux, but she basically beats most low ranged Mages. You shouldnt expect to ever be able to even get close to her as Cassiopeiaor vlad(both have a 40% winrate against lux)
Hexten3 votes[deleted]
SaltyToplaneGoat4 votes
Prime example of this. He has seen some nerfs, but back then if you took him toplane you won by default. No melee champion can hope to beat him in lane 1vs1.
Chaotic Reks16 votesyasuo better design principles
lol wut
iainB852 votesHas ability that can block every single projectile, including loads of ultimates, that he can just throw out in any direction and have it work.
#Better Design Principles.
Astôlfo5 votesAnd… it blocks projectiles and only projectiles. Way to use slanted phrasing. "Loads". Ok. So it blocks ults with projectiles. Still projectiles. Now, let me say it in a way that's not so salty. "It blocks projectiles." Wow. So simple.
"Throw out in any direction and have it work". Hmm. It comes out from his center which I disagree with, but it won't work after throwing it out. Hmmm, what does that mean? MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T SHOOT PROJECTILES AT THE WINDWALL. Wow, such a hard concept. I mean, using effort to go around it and shoot or just wait till it ends? Such heresy!
Jesus christ. QQ gets worse by the day.
Troll for Trump3 votesYou can't AA him if he's dancing through windwalls. Most mages are immobile, Some ults like Caitlyn or Jhin ult can't be suddenly repositioned.
A good yasuo will block everything with his windwall, while the good mage/adc can't do anything.
And it's very hard to run away from him. Especially when playing a immobile mage.
Astôlfo4 votesOr you realize the windwall only lasts a few seconds for a rather long cooldown and just wait? Why do you keep complaining about the ult being blocked? That's hardly special. It's just one ability countering another. Oh look, Morgana's shield stops all spell effects, such OP! #logic "A good Yasuo" Hmm, maybe that's the reason, considering he generally is... you know, a counter to said mages/ADCs. ( ._.) "it's hard to run away from him" Well gee, I wonder what happens when you put someone who's good at dashing through minion waves next to someone who's not that mobile.
It's like saying FIRE-type (Pokemon I guess or whatever) beats GRASS-type, therefore FIRE-type is OP. Um, FIRE-type counters GRASS-type, that's why it has the advantage. That doesn't make it unwinnable, it just makes it harder, as it should. ( ._.) Are you actually complaining about matchups being unfair when they specifically counter them?
Troll for Trump1 votesFirst, no need to spam emoticons.
Yas isn't tailored to specifically shut down all ADCs and Mages. No champ should be able to shut down more than one class, especially when it's on one ability. You can have an antimage like Kassadin, but why does Yasuo, who is supposed to a regular assassin, do his job better? Yas builds CDR, and Wind Wall has a pretty low CD. At least lower than the CD of most ultimates, and low enough that he can use it every skirmish. If he goes in w/o wind wall, that's on him.
Well gee the mage is all the way across mid lane, and all Yas did was E through the current wave, and then E onto the mage/nearby minions. And im not saying only things that aren't mobile, even LB can't outrun Yas. When you retreat, you run towards your side, not the opponents turret, so yeah, that gives him minions.
Yasuo is NOT designed to counter mages and ADCs. It's not a fire type vs grass type. That would be how Kassadin is supposed to function against something like a Malz
Oh look, Morgana's shield stops all spell effects, such OP! #logic
Yes, and there were a TON of complaints when Morg Support was meta about the shield thing. Also some about her snare duration, too. But Morg doesn't block damage and she'll still be killed by physical damage from ADCs, while Yas just stops everything altogether.
Astôlfo3 votesUh, Yasuo is a fighter mostly. He just attains enough burst later in he can still be classified as an assassin. Not the bruiser type, but still a dueler. And um, he doesn't just entirely shut them down. lol Like I said, if you read my words, he's advantaged against them.
"And let's just forget about Yasuo outside lane waves because that never ever happens, right?" Sure! :D Let's just forget how he's as immobile as any plain mage outside of minion waves and let's also just pretend he has a minion wave every single time to run away or chase with, oh wait, except he doesn't. It only works on enemy targets with a mark that takes forever in an escape to cooldown. So unless they pushed minions all the way to his tower, it's not going to help. And why on earth do you keep complaining he's good at his strong suits? He's good in mob waves. Of course he'll be fast there. LB easily outruns him outside of waves.
Uh, yes, Yas is meant to counter immobile champs and function well in minion waves. He chases them down easily and has high damage potential, but it's also single target mostly. Yes, his ult can hit multiple targets but leaping in 1v3/4/5 unless they're almost dead anyways is suicide.
In response to your last paragraph/point, Yasuo's wall also doesn't move nor does it stop non-projectiles. Yas's windwall also stops nothing except projectiles from going through it. So no, it doesn't just stop everything altogether as easily as you say it. Can you please speak objectively and stop slanting your words with bias so much? Thanks.
Troll for Trump1 votesCan you please stop being an asshole so much? Thanks And you aren't being very objective either; Just being biased for Yas
If he's advantaged towards those classes, than the advantage is too much. If he' s meant to hard counter them, it's too large of one. Wind wall is stupid to play against with a lot of champs.
Sure! :D Let's just forget how he's as immobile as any plain mage outside of minion waves and let's also just pretend he has a minion wave every single time to run away or chase with, oh wait, except he doesn't. It only works on enemy targets with a mark that takes forever in an escape to cooldown. So unless they pushed minions all the way to his tower, it's not going to help. And why on earth do you keep complaining he's good at his strong suits? He's good in mob waves. Of course he'll be fast there. LB easily outruns him outside of waves.
Except he's got the passive shield for safety from poke, uses the minions to dash as an escape, and uses that windwall as a safety net. Sure burst him down, but you have to do it from afar. Most mages that burst are stopped by wind wall, and the ones that need to get close just get close to minions, letting him dash on all of them. There are always mob waves, and they are always pushed. If you're winning, your minions will be constantly flowing towards their nexus, filling the lanes with dash targets. If you're losing, minions are all over your base, and he can dive you easily, since most Yas's won't be killed by turrets, especially if they get Randuin's/D Man's plate etc.
Why is he meant to be antimage/ADC? Was he designed to do it?
Uh, yes, Yas is meant to counter immobile champs and function well in minion waves. He chases them down easily and has high damage potential, but it's also single target mostly. Yes, his ult can hit multiple targets but leaping in 1v3/4/5 unless they're almost dead anyways is suicide.
But he also shts on mobile things. Ezreal doesn't matter, Corki's W doesn't matter etc. Unless you are Kalista or something of that sort, it doesn't matter. Mobility also usually comes with squishiness. Yasuo isn't squishy and still has quite a ton of mobility. Only needs to dash to you once to unload his arsenal, if not be able to Q you from far away to land his ult, have a team mate trigger his ult, or catch up with his Triforce passive. Nothing is meant to be able to 1v3/4/5. Yas can do it, thanks to windwall; At least he can 1v3 as easily as a Yi could. But yes, more often then not it results in death against something that can cc (ali, naut etc.), but he can 1v3 squishies. With more people around, he's got more e targets to help him latch onto the squishiest target. And he'll probably be getting help from his team too
Yasuo's wall also doesn't move nor does it stop non-projectiles. Yas's windwall also stops nothing except projectiles from going through it. So no, it doesn't just stop everything altogether as easily as you say it.
As I also said, Yas doesn't need to move the wall; it covers almost the whole lane so nothing can go through it, except at a really odd, hard-to-get to angles. You won't be moving with a Jhin or Cait ult. Wind wall is better than spell shield.
Morg also has no escape, Jhin has his E.
Astôlfo3 votesExcept I have no reason to be biased for or against Yasuo. I don't even main him, but I do have experience with him. I just don't like how Yasuo and a bunch of other champs continuously get salty QQ without any actual base. Said passive shield takes a long while to build up, and even when it doesn't towards mid/late, it doesn't protect that much at all. He needs said minions for an escape. Once again, he's not specifically anti-mage/ADC. Okay, well, maybe anti-ADC. But he's more of anti-immobile/projectile based champs. It just happens mages/ADCs make up most of those. Ezreal's flash is a relatively short distance on a lot longer CD than Yasuo's dash, so of course Yasuo would win the race in a minion wave. Corki's W has a really long CD last time I checked. He has high burst damage and is a dueler, as well as having some AoE (Shiv, his spin-EQ, multi-target ult). Therefore, obviously, squishies will have a hard time against him even if there's 1 or 2 more of them than him. But then Yasuo just gets CC'd and sort of crumbles if the enemy team is actually coordinated. "covers almost whole lane" ok Jhin's E is hardly a reliable escape.
Yes, I do realize Yasuo has faults. I think I should've made that more clear. I'm saying some people are making faults out of nothing though, or overexaggerating some faults.
Troll for Trump1 votesAnd neither do I. There is no reason to think I'm being biased against Yasuo. "You are arguing against Yasuo, therefore you are biased" basically.
It doesn't take long to build up at all. You can spam Q safely or use your q's 2nd proc. Basically it's like Talon laning.
But he's more of anti-immobile/projectile based champs. It just happens mages/ADCs make up most of those.
What?
He has high burst damage and is a dueler, as well as having some AoE (Shiv, his spin-EQ, multi-target ult). Therefore, obviously, squishies will have a hard time against him even if there's 1 or 2 more of them than him. But then Yasuo just gets CC'd and sort of crumbles if the enemy team is actually coordinated.
That sounds like an equation for a pretty overloaded kit, of a champ who has a large array of functions.
Jhin's E is hardly a reliable escape. ????
Yes, Ezreal and Corki have a long CD dash, but Ezreal is supposed to be a kiting master, andn it's ridiculous that iceborn isn't enough to stop Yas
Astôlfo3 votesIt might just be me, but the way you phrase your words sometimes just seemed fairly slanted, which is why I pointed out potential bias. Arguing against him isn't automatically bias. xD Yes, I guess you could say building up the shield isn't too hard, but it also really doesn't stop much. Sooo...
Not sure what you mean. How is it overloaded? His Q is his basic poke and his way to use his ult by himself without relying on team. His W is a basic shield against said projectiles. His E is mobility to catch up with said immobile champs. His ult relies on his Q or his teammates, and is part of his burst. Yasuo isn't generally full tank, and usually he goes full damage, but he does go bruiser occasionally. Even without that though, by default, he's more of a warrior/dueler, so he's not as squishy as mages that will instantly 100-0 you within a fraction of a second before you can do basically anything (Annie for example). Not saying Annie is OP/UP/etc, just giving an example of a champ like that. He's focused on trading blows and being the one to come out on top. Being as he is, he deals a fair bit of damage, so most squishies, which fall under said mage/ADC type, are squishier than he is. So he sort of beats them in the trade. That's sort of obvious. :P I disagree with his 100% crit thing, but that's another issue.
Iceborn shouldn't have ever been on Ez on the first place, but that's a different matter. Basic movement isn't going to affect Yasuo much if he's dashing through minions with an ability instead .-.
LordGeovanni1 votesor he would be a fighter if you couldnt build full damage shit stomp everyone. yasou needs his e to be 2 seconds and he can get some hp / level as compensation
Astôlfo1 votesIf his E was 2 seconds, it would be useless. The whole point of the E is his quick-dash through minion waves to catch up to people who are in minion waves.
LordGeovanni1 votesyou couldnt use it the same way but it wouldnt be useless that dash isnt low damage though if they did that they would ahve to change various numbers but its still too much mobility and he has a large amount of damage his wind wall is also a very powerful tool
LordGeovanni1 votescause he absolutely couldnt do it anymore not like he doesnt always build zeal and zeal doesnt have % movement speed increase
iainB852 votesSo you already know it comes from his center, "which you disagree with".
That makes it less of a wall and more of a get out of jail free card. He can cast it 180 degrees wrong direction of the projectile and still be safe. It takes all skill and thought out of the ability.
If that's not poor design I don't know what is, kid.
Astôlfo2 votesThe windwall itself isn't poor design. The choice of it coming out from his center is the poor design about it. The windwall itself is perfectly fine. Try again, kid.
iainB852 votesIf any aspect of an ability is poor design, that makes the ability itself poor design because that aspect is currently a part of that ability.
If they were to rework the ability to not have that aspect, it could increase the design of the ability and not make it as poor. Until then, it's a poorly designed ability.
Sucks having to teach kids basic logic in order to have a discussion on the forums these days.
Astôlfo1 votesSo. Bad people exist within humanity. That is an aspect of humanity. Therefore, all of humanity is bad. Nice logic there. Thanks for proving a kid has better logic than an adult. ^^
The irony is killing me. Sucks having to realize that people older than me still have logic worse than an kid's. Come back to the discussion once you actually have a sense of logic.
La Barbotte15 votes
people dont like to admit it, but this season as far as diversity, is doing pretty well, the problem is, everything is OP, because death timers are too high champions feel like they dont have ult cooldowns
HighH115 votesYou can't just list every champion in the game and call it diversity. Half of those aren't even picked very much. Well you're missing 
but let's be honest who does remember them.
La Barbotte2 voteslol they are picked often, lcs sint the only thing there is to this game
LankPants5 votes
hgjkdlsaf jeldvb2 voteseh, about 1/3 of champions has greater than this. It could be worse. The problem is that there's a few champs with extremely high play rate. Ez, Lucian, Thresh, Vayne, and Lee will never be low because I guess people like to play them. Janna will drop if and when she actually gets nerfed. Same for Lux, Jhin, and Zed to a degree.
LordGeovanni1 voteslee is fuckin over loaded and despite what people say about falling off % hp Q doesnt fall off. and also the only champion left in the game that can reveal invisible champions it there is more tell me maybe corki can do it too
hgjkdlsaf jeldvb1 votesHe is, but his late game effectiveness is often quite limited, as his ult is the only real tool he has. Lee relies on snowballing early, but if he is too squishy by mid game, you can just cc and burst him and suddenly he's less relevant. I think a lot of lees fail to gracefully transition to tank for the late game. He has all the tools, but many people can't use them effectively. That's why his win rate is garbage but he's still a pick at the pro level.
LordGeovanni1 votesassuming ever team is built to cc and burst down a fed lee sin with his high damage early and not like his damage was low at any point in the game just that when people can finally rebound and get hp your damage that was doing 70% of a persons hp in the 2 part q now does 30-40% people and i dont know how expect that they should get stronger through out the game but the enemy should stay at the same strength below them all game as if they shouldnt even dare try to come back. damage mobility and sustain late game isnt effective? you are no longer 1 shotting people but that doesnt make you useless when you still do massive chuncks
Vistha Kai1 votesToo bad I haven't seen even a quarter of those champions since preseason.
Nice diversity you got there.
Axis the Dragon1 votesIIRC almost all of the champions nekkopora listed was played in the LCS at least once. Whether or not they were successful is another thing entirely, though.
Vistha Kai1 votesI'll put it like this.
I don't give a singular fuck about LCS.
It has lost all the value to me halfway through the last season.
Axis the Dragon1 votesThen you haven't watched (the end of) Echo Fox vs. Dignitas
Clownfiesta exemplified
It's entertaining if nothing else lmao
Sure, it's rare that games like that happen (well, unless you're Dignitas or Echo Fox) but when they do happen it makes the stale LCS games actually look fun
Vistha Kai1 votesThere're many much more certain ways to get entertained than to roll a 1% chance watching LCS, falling asleep 5 minutes in every game otherwise.
Axis the Dragon1 votesOh, I watch just because I play Fantasy LCS. I wanna see how well my players be doin', you feel me?
Vistha Kai1 votesWhatever floats your boat, matey.
Axis the Dragon1 votesIndeed, I do very well understand why you wouldn't watch LCS. Good day, or night, evening whatever, wherever you are xD
Karfuss2 votesGreat example of rhetoric. List a few popular champions, throw in ones that haven't seen play since pre-season in between and create the illusion that we've got a great point.
La Barbotte1 votesi dont know where you're hiding but they are all champs i see often.....
Karfuss1 votesAnecdotal. The overwhelming majority of the champions named haven't been seen since pre-season.
La Barbotte1 voteswelp, unlukcy (or lucky) you i guess
Divewing11 votesWoah woah woah bro hold on. Money to get lux nerfed maybe, but ZED??!??!??! Like thats a LOOOOOOOOT of cash
StoryDuck10 votesI've started banning Lux. Never really had problems with Zed though, not unless he got fed early. Ezreal is my second choice. I'm just really really really tired of seeing Blue EZ.
Darth Pixy Misa5 votesZed and Syndra are a thing, but a Ez vs Zed fight over Lux would be funny.
JPlayah1 votes[{quoted}](name=Darth Pixy Misa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RlPME7EE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-14T19:53:00.141+0000)
Zed and Syndra are a thing, but a Ez vs Zed fight over Lux would be funny.
Zac gets home after the fight
Riven: "ZAC I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOU WERE TODAY!" Zac: "........Sh*t."
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