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Oh hey! New pbe patch!... And Kha'zix is getting another nerf. Again. For the 50th time.

Shinjusuke··25 votes·5,199 views

Meanwhile, Lee Sin and Elise topping the charts since forever without nerfs, because the chinese players like Lee Sin. But don't worry, I'm sure there's no favoritism going on at all. Yup. Definitely not.

Passive aggressive (however, totally justified. I mean seriously.) bullshit aside, why don't you guys just take Kha out of the game and re-release him when you've decided what the hell you want to actually do with the champion? I mean, I love Kha'zix, and was a full supporter of the first rounds of nerfs. But then they just kept coming, and coming, and coming, and I'm so tired of every friggin' patch nerfing the champion, while you blatantly ignore champions like Lee Sin.

Just remove Kha'zix so you guys can admit you just plain hate assassins and we can all play Marksmen like you want us to. This whole "nerf literally every patch" thing is getting INCREDIBLY old, and you're not even nerfing him in ways that make him a "better" or "healthier" champion. All you're doing is cutting out options from the champion whose entire friggin' character is supposed to be centered around adaptability and options.

If you guys crunched together the combined nerfs to Kha'zix into a single patch since his release, or hell, just since a few months ago, people would think you just plain hated him. Which, coincidentally, seems to be a the frigging case, as apparently he's the only champion you'll nerf without giving him power somewhere else, even though there are vastly worse offenders than him.

In all seriousness, no sarcasm whatsoever, I really would rather have you guys just outright remove one of my favorite champions from the game, permanently. What you're doing is just plain insulting. And you just keep doing it. If I didn't know better, I would say you're doing it deliberately to see how much BS his players will put up with. Sorry for the heated thread, but you should know you guys are being ridiculous at this point. The favoritism crap is just gross.

82 Comments

Featherztorm13 votes

I agree with OP. Kha'zix is just getting further and further outside the realms of being what he was meant to be... One of the only TWO jungle assassins in the game. Might as well nerf every champ the chinese pros don't use.

Narasimha3 votes

Nocturne One... Rengar Two... Shaco Three... XinZhao (build based) Four.... MasterYi Five.... Evelynn Six.... Khazix Wut. Guys Stahp. Its only me and someone else.

KingDerrickHenry11 votes

is this seriously about a 2 second cd increase on his void spikes? REALLY? Khazix is still pretty strong, it's not like he's going to hit Elise level win rate. Furthermore, its PBE, where they test things, ya know? This forum has so much whining about the game it's unbelievable. You literally wrote 4 paragraphs about a TWO SECOND INCREASE ON HIS VOID SPIKE CD. DO YOU REALIZE HOW RIDICULOUS THAT IS?

Shinjusuke2 votes

Have you been paying ANY attention, at all, over the last season? It's not like this is Kha's first nerf.

He's being nerfed repeatedly, almost every patch, for over a season now.

2 second increase is not a big deal and it's not the point, the point is the nerfs almost every patch are bullshit, and speak to either a lack of balancing ability or a lack of interest in actually keeping a champion in the game. Nobody thinks a 2 second increase on W is gutting, they think the nerfs almost every single goddamn patch for over a year is.

KingDerrickHenry6 votes

He's been CHANGED. They changed his Q mechanic, they buffed his W to the point where it was THE ONLY viable first evolution, now his first evolution needs to be different. His Q evolved is STRONGER when isolated than his evolved Q was when it did %HP dmg. The fact that you're arguing that Elise is in a better place than Khazix right now is ABSURD. Elise has been weak as fuck for the last 5 patches. Notice her in pro play? Nah, cuz she wasnt picked. Khazix has remained a strong pick throughout.

Four of Ten2 votes

is this seriously about a 2 second cd increase on his void spikes? REALLY? Khazix is still pretty strong, it's not like he's going to hit Elise level win rate. Furthermore, its PBE, where they test things, ya know? This forum has so much whining about the game it's unbelievable. You literally wrote 4 paragraphs about a TWO SECOND INCREASE ON HIS VOID SPIKE CD. DO YOU REALIZE HOW RIDICULOUS THAT IS?

its not about one nerf.....did you read his post. They nerf kha'zix every patch and its getting old.

KingDerrickHenry3 votes

read post above. HE'S BEEN CHANGED. HIS EVOLVED Q IS STRONGER THAN IT USED TO BE, IT JUST RELIES ON ISOLATION, WHICH MEANS YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING RATHER THAN FACEROLL EVOLVE Q PEOPLE FOR 8% HP + 300 DMG.

OJ1916 votes

is this seriously about a 2 second cd increase on his void spikes? REALLY? Khazix is still pretty strong, it's not like he's going to hit Elise level win rate. Furthermore, its PBE, where they test things, ya know? This forum has so much whining about the game it's unbelievable. You literally wrote 4 paragraphs about a TWO SECOND INCREASE ON HIS VOID SPIKE CD. DO YOU REALIZE HOW RIDICULOUS THAT IS?

its not about one nerf.....did you read his post. They nerf kha'zix every patch and its getting old.

well yeah if you take 10,000 kg of TNT and remove 10 kg every month, it's going to take you a long time to make it safe

Onegarion2 votes

The problem is that they don't nerf him in the right places. So when they nerf one thing they end up buffing something to compensate down the road and then have to do the opposite until they can decide where to nerf again. I made a thread a while ago about this in which Riot needs to decide an end goal with Kha in what they want. If they want a well rounded champ they need to nerf his Q overall , but I really doubt this is the direction they want to go.

Where I think they and where is the easier way to balance imo is that he is the assassin. With this I think they need to buff his Q to make it his bread and butter and nerf/rework his W to either do less damage or be less of a reliant and more for the utility. If they focused on making his W more utility based I think it would put Kha in a safer place where he can actually avoid the nerfs. They want him an assassin so I'm not sure why they have damage like they do on his W especially with the common use of BC with it. I really think that a nerf to the damage (unless you land all 3 on 1 person) and increase the utility of the slow or the heal to compensate. I don't think the range attack is the problem, but the way its set up right now is.

Yura May Zing10 votes

Elise has been overnerfed soooo badly. Khazix doesnt have it nearly as bad. Great elise players can squeeze alittle potential out of her but right now shes nothing really special short from having some of the safest towerdives in the game with rappel. Thats pretty much all she has.... alot of characters have a long range 2 second collision stun and at least they do damage...

Arkna2 votes

Elise has been overnerfed soooo badly. Khazix doesnt have it nearly as bad. Great elise players can squeeze alittle potential out of her but right now shes nothing really special short from having some of the safest towerdives in the game with rappel. Thats pretty much all she has.... alot of characters have a long range 2 second collision stun and at least they do damage...

The most successful elise builds moved to incorporate cdr to get a 2 second long ranged stun on a ~6 second cooldown. Please tell me what other jungler can pull that off? She's also a strong ganker, one of the fastest ap tower pushers, has consistent item independent damage in the form %current and %missing health, her spiders can tank creeps making her ganks really safe, and a ranged form for safety in siege situations. They took away her high damage output because having that on top of her strong kit was just too much. They managed to cram more into her kit than Lee's for christ sake.

KingDerrickHenry3 votes

op.gg click statistics at the top left of screen. Scroll alllll the way to the bottom of winrate, just above Yasuo at dead last, resides the Spider Queen

Shinjusuke1 votes

Oh so that must mean Fiora is the best champion in the game, right? So that's how this all works. Here I thought using win rates to justify champion balance was naive. Silly me.

KingDerrickHenry4 votes

The fact that you think Elise is some super strong champion right now is so unbelievably ignorant I cant even fathom

Arkna3 votes

The fact that you think Elise is some super strong champion right now is so unbelievably ignorant I cant even fathom

Soloqueue winrate statistics aren't exactly a good indicator of the strength of a champion. The two most important qualities for soloqueue are the ability to punish mistakes hard and snowball hard. Elise's strengths come into play when your opponent isn't making copious mistakes, and she doesn't really snowball all that hard. Look at her winrate in diamond/challenger. She also fills more of a support jungler role, and it shows when you compare her ranked 5s winrate to her soloqueue winrate.

KingDerrickHenry5 votes

Khazix has a higher winrate than Elise regardless of division or any other situation you want to cherry pick to try to make Elise seem strong right now. Besides the direct Elise nerfs, she also had her best jungle item reworked. If she was still really strong dont you think someone like Meteos who absolutely dominated on her during her heyday earlier this season wouldve been playing her at worlds? They were still playing Khazix tho.

Arkna2 votes

Khazix has a higher winrate than Elise regardless of division or any other situation you want to cherry pick to try to make Elise seem strong right now. Besides the direct Elise nerfs, she also had her best jungle item reworked. If she was still really strong dont you think someone like Meteos who absolutely dominated on her during her heyday earlier this season wouldve been playing her at worlds? They were still playing Khazix tho.

I never said Elise was stronger than Khazix. I said she wasn't "gutted" like you seem to think, and that looking at a champions winrate without context is useless as a balancing metric.

Khazix players are irked because the entirety of the champions balance history has been gutting one evolution because it overshadows the rest, then gutting the new best one for the exact same reason. This is the 4th time this shit has happened (W top, Q jungle, R bruiser, now W Jungle) , and 2 seconds may not be gutting it, but I seriously doubt they intend to stop there.

KingDerrickHenry3 votes

If Elise was still in any way relevant, why did she just completely fall off from the competitive scene? She got nerfed, Ancient Golem got changed (indirect Elise nerf). Khazix's evolved Q is STRONGER than it was during the "Q Jungle" days you speak of, not that you can just hop into an entire team and get free resets anymore, but when isolated, it's stronger. The only buff you could possibly give him right now is maybe resetting the isolation range or giving him some of his bonus AD ratio on his leap back. Other than that, he's still strong and is gonna remain that way. His kit is inherently strong

ProfDrDeath1 votes

A. We did not have play on the competitive scene for some time now.

B. Wait till the jungle changes hit live before buffing any jungle champion, please.

What they're doing for 4.20 is to nerf junglers who became obvious abuse cases in the new jungler, first and foremost. And that seems to have included Kha'Zix, WW, Amumu and Rammus.

KingDerrickHenry8 votes

I just realized, OP seems to be of the opinion that Elise is a god right now. Just rofl. go to op.gg. click statistics. scroll to the very bottom of winrate, there you will find Elise.

CataclysmCrash1 votes

I just realized, OP seems to be of the opinion that Elise is a god right now. Just rofl. go to op.gg. click statistics. scroll to the very bottom of winrate, there you will find Elise.

Yeah but you guys know what Elise, Lee Sin, Nidalee and Kha all have in common? Their kit designs are fucking stacked with power/mobility/utility so Riot has to kneecap their numbers just so they don't force out the rest of the roster.

Like this OP makes me laugh so fucking hard. There are people who main shit that doesn't see the light of day and he's crying for Riot to remove his incredibly lethal, mobile, viable champion.

futuresight237 votes

Yes Khazix has been nerfed many times. It's also true that Kha'zix has had the resilience of cockroach and will still likely be among the top tier junglers after this nerf (depends more on what impact the jungle changes have on him than anything).

Hayaishi5 votes

Up 2 seconds on his more obnoxious ability.

How is this gutting, or removing his identity? He'll still be fine but he had too much poke.

Shinjusuke4 votes

That's not hte point. He's almost gotten more cumulative nerfs than any champion in League's history.

A 2 second nerf to W is fine. Add that to the 50 OTHER nerfs and it's just plain insulting. He's been gutted and had his identity removed, they're just continually beating a dead horse and it's ridiculous, especially when there are far worse jungle problems to take care of, like Lee Sin and Elise who are all but immune to balance changes.

Hayaishi5 votes

That's not hte point. He's almost gotten more cumulative nerfs than any champion in League's history.

A 2 second nerf to W is fine. Add that to the 50 OTHER nerfs and it's just plain insulting. He's been gutted and had his identity removed, they're just continually beating a dead horse and it's ridiculous, especially when there are far worse jungle problems to take care of, like Lee Sin and Elise who are all but immune to balance changes.

Elise is trash right now, so just take her out of the picture.

Every nerf Kha Zix has gotten is a nerf he has deserved, there's no denying it. Also he's not a dead horse he's plenty of viable.

Lee Sin not getting nerfed doesn't mean Kha has to be allowed to be OP. Riot is purposely tweaking the jungle so Lee Sin's play style stops being problematic, is not Lee Sin that is overpowered (atleast not now) it's what he represents.

ScurvyNave2 votes

It's not so much a direct gutting as its a slow continuous process of nerfs that have lowered kha'zixs potential and multiple strategies and play styles. Riot seems to want Kha to be another extremely squishy assassin and thats all. Except that with all these nerfs to him you might as well learn Lee Sin since he's apparently untouchable. The original post points this out, that Riot seems to be prioritizing Kha'zix nerfs when the bug is perfectly balanced the way he is when there are other champions that need work a lot more.

KingDerrickHenry3 votes

man I want to leave this thread alone but I just cant. Lee has been nerfed. His safeguard duration was nerfed, he no longer gets a shield when safeguarding to minions/wards, his cripple no longer has the 60% attack speed reduction. Khazix is not the only champion who has been nerfed. Christ.

ScurvyNave2 votes

I never said that Lee was overpowered I just agreed with the original posts point that Kha is getting unneeded attention. Im sorry if thats a bother to you and apologize.

KingDerrickHenry3 votes

you said this "Except that with all these nerfs to him you might as well learn Lee Sin since he's apparently untouchable." That reads as, Lee is untouchable and doesnt get nerfs. I'm simply explaining to you, the nerfs that Lee has received.

Kufkus5 votes

Before i give my two cents i would like to note that i am a kha main as well. Kha has consistently been top tier in the jungle for all of season 4. I was able to play him in higher elo games (high plat low diamond) all season long with no problems, no matter what they nerfed on him. Being a kha player is just like being a league player in general; you need to be able to adapt to change (change is GOOOOD). What skill kha will max/evolve will change after every few patches probably if he remains top tier next season like i bet he will, and i actually support w nerfs. Poke kha is the least fun way to play him BY FAR. Maxing q and evolving it is when kha and his opponents have the most options in terms of counterplay. Correctly weaving through teamfights with stealth to delete isolated targets is the best feeling for any kha player.

TLDR kha will live on forever and always. Rito cant squash this bug.

EffectFX3 votes

Deal with it.

Hawker3 votes

The Kha'zix whining is seriously pathetic, he's easily one of, if not THE most overloaded champions in the game:

10-mile range jump complete with resets? - Check Stupidly high damage, allowing him to 2-shot squishies as well as duel better than most other junglers? - Check Invisibility that grants him a movement speed boost that he can use MULTIPLE times that ALSO gives him his passive? - Check Passive to give him more insane damage on top of what he already has? - Check RANGED slow that also HEALS Kha'zix? - Check

He has range, heals, insane damage, a better leap than 99% of the other champions, invisibility, what DOESN'T he have? He's still far and away one of the absolutely best junglers in the game even with this nerf, he's plain stupid.

He needs gutting, then a complete rework, anyone claiming this ridiculous, overloaded bug is NOT deserving of nerfs is beyond help, in all honesty.

Shinjusuke5 votes

Passive that's 15% damage reduction vs any target he autoattacks? - Check Longest range harass in the game on a short cooldown THAT APPLIES HIS PASSIVE? - Check Built-in shield on a champion with uber range THAT ALSO APPLIES A SLOW ON HIS LOW CD HARASS? - Check Built in AOE Armor Shred that also causes his spammable harass to lock on to enemies OUT of his vision? - Check 1 second long suppress that causes him to switch places AND gives him 120 Magic Resist AND Armor? - Check

He has insane range, infinite harass potential, tons of CC, and built-in tankiness, plus damage reduction. I mean what DOESN'T he have?

Oh right, viability, because he's Urgot and just naming off a champion's skills doesn't mean anything. You can make a poro sound OP doing that.

Spacesuit Spiff3 votes

Passive that's 15% damage reduction vs any target he autoattacks? - Check Longest range harass in the game on a short cooldown THAT APPLIES HIS PASSIVE? - Check Built-in shield on a champion with uber range THAT ALSO APPLIES A SLOW ON HIS LOW CD HARASS? - Check Built in AOE Armor Shred that also causes his spammable harass to lock on to enemies OUT of his vision? - Check 1 second long suppress that causes him to switch places AND gives him 120 Magic Resist AND Armor? - Check

He has insane range, infinite harass potential, tons of CC, and built-in tankiness, plus damage reduction. I mean what DOESN'T he have?

Oh right, viability, because he's Urgot and just naming off a champion's skills doesn't mean anything. You can make a poro sound OP doing that.

So glad to see someone else who can see through this strategy. I swear I've seen one for half the champions now, no matter how garbage they are, just because a silver player lost lane.

Now, let's not forget that Kha has no hard CC, no sustained dueling potential, doesn't even get a decent slow unless he evolves into it, gets shut out of teamfights by a pink ward unless he's going to jump in for a quick KS, and probably won't get a lot of isolation damage off outside of bronze.

M0b1us3 votes

item 3070 Warwick item 3070

WW gets his ult nerfed, the same champ who hasn't been considered viable since S1 or early S2. Then people complain about Kha getting nerfs.

Meep Man2 votes

I think Riot is waiting to see how Season 5 jungle goes for Lee before changing him in any major way.

But I don't know about these tons of Kha'Zix nerfs. However, it is pretty noticeable he is still good since he is still picked and regarded by amny people I know as a great jungler due to his incredibly high mobility and still decent burst since all he needs is to go into an unseen spot to gain a free slow and more damage. That and he is adaptable, but these are a lot of nerfs. I have a feeling that Riot one day is going to make a change to the way the jungle works or how mobility works and it will be, so to say, the straw that broke the camel's back for Kha'Zix.

AloneInTheCrowd2 votes

If they remove the reset on his jump , Kha Zix will be actually balanced .

Brenticus121 votes

The reset on the jump is the second most fun thing about Kha. It's like that feeling you get when you play Kat and get reset after reset

Martyrofsand2 votes

The reset on the jump is the second most fun thing about Kha. It's like that feeling you get when you play Kat and get reset after reset

And in the same vein also the most toxic thing about him. Sure it's fun to jump all over the place like a mad man, just like it's fun for a lot of people to try heroine, doesn't mean it's healthy and sure as hell doesn't mean it has a place in a balanced game.

Brenticus121 votes

If you're suggesting we should remove resets like that, then we might aswell remove Katarina's resets too.

His jump gets completely negated by any form of heal or peel. Missing his E and not being able to kill his target means he has no resets meaning people can easily burst him down when he jumps into the fight expecting a quick kill and a getaway reset.

Martyrofsand2 votes

If you're suggesting we should remove resets like that, then we might aswell remove Katarina's resets too.

His jump gets completely negated by any form of heal or peel. Missing his E and not being able to kill his target means he has no resets meaning people can easily burst him down when he jumps into the fight expecting a quick kill and a getaway reset.

I would agree with removing the resets on Kats E, and reworking Lee's Q or W so he only has 1 dash, and giving a real CD to Yasuo's E, and upping the CD on Lucien's E while removing the reduction he gets from his passive, and putting a CD on Rengar's passive, and reworking Zed's shadows she he doesn't have a get out of jail free cards...noticing a trend here?

Mobility has gotten out of hand, those above, and Kha'zix, are some of the biggest offenders in this game and it is their insanely high amount of mobility that is in absolutely no way properly budgeted when talking about proper power budgeting of a champion that makes them oppressive and constantly nerfed patch after patch after patch after patch, aside for Lee Sin who is protected by Riots Chinese overlords.

Everything you mentioned to "negate his reset" has proven to not work. There is a reason he is constantly one of the most contested picks at the highest level of play and constantly dominates games. Hell there have been several times at the pro levels PLAYER SACRIFICE THEMSELVES TO GIVE HIM THE RESET because they know as soon as he gets 1 reset they win the fight. When players are sacrificing themselves just to ensure a specific mechanic "turns on" at the highest levels of play knowing that it's going to win the fight then you know there is something seriously wrong with the power level of that mechanic.

RadiantWings2 votes

he's the only champion you'll nerf without giving him power somewhere else.

The last time they did that we got the abomination known as bruiser Kha'zix.

AnomalousChimera1 votes

Lee Sin Base armor lowered to 24.216 from 26.216 Base HP regen per second lowered to 1.4852 from 1.8852

Try to read more, OP.

Shinjusuke3 votes

Well aware they dropped his base armor by gasp! two points, and slightly shaved the base regen off a champ with a shield, 3 potential escapes, and built-in lifesteal. Obviously Lee Sin is unplayable now.

The lightest nerf they could possibly give does not, in any way, justify their blatant favoritism for lee sin, nor does it mean that he's magically allowed to continue being the top jungler, since release, with no more than these pinpricks to nerf him. Sure, some champ has to be top, that's just how tiers work. It shouldn't be the same guy since his release several years ago, while champions lower than him are getting nerfed every other patch for a year and a half.

Kuroi863 votes

Well then, lets look at what other nerfs he received this season.

V4.5: Safeguard

Cooldown increased to 14 seconds from 9.
Cooldown is now reduced by 50% if the target was an allied champion (including self).
Shield duration reduced to 4 seconds from 5.
Will now only shield allied champion targets (can still target any ally).

Iron Will

Buff duration reduced to 4 seconds from 5.

V4.13: Safeguard

Shield duration reduced to 2 seconds from 4.

Cripple

No longer reduces enemy attack speed (reduced to 0% from 20/30/40/50/60%).

Now, let me be clear, I agree the latest Kha'Zix nerf is unwarranted and personally it's rather annoying. But I'm seriously tired of people complaining about "insert champion name here" not being nerfed and OP blah blah. It's old, it's never been a valid argument. If you look at the patch notes about this nerf, they specifically say, "In the case of Kha'Zix, Q was designed to be his main tool when assassinating targets, and it's important to maintain that relationship for game health / champion identity reasons. Right now, however, Kha's actually prioritizing W as a first evolution (and max rank), but he's still expecting to do all of his assassin-y things (note: without evolving or focusing on what should be his primary killing tool). We're fine with players opting for a W-first Kha'Zix, but this means he's gotta make some meaningful tradeoffs, like losing some offensive threat while gaining utility / poke. Unfortunately, this hasn't really been the case as we're still seeing Kha'Zix being very effective as an assassin while also getting all of the extra utility of evolved W.

What all of this tells us is one of two things: a.) The utility and strength of evolved W is too reliable in combination with Kha'Zix's base kit, so he can get the best of all worlds by maximizing his utility while also being a high-threat assassin. Or b.) Kha'Zix's evolved Q is too weak to properly use as a primary play pattern, so he's forced to max / evolve W to stay relevant in the game but doesn't really want to. We strongly suspect the first case is more true (and this is reflected in our change)."

Now yeah, I agree this is bs. Instead of nerfing W, why not make Q actually worth leveling early on instead of giving insane late game power but no early game power.

Baron Perenolde1 votes

Elise not nerfed? C'mon man, you know that's bull.

TecToNiiC1 votes

Elise and shyvana will save you a spot in the sub 45% win rate club...wait nevermind kha wont be that far down from a 2 second nerf to w...

plenty of other champs have received nothing but nerfs this season

SS Enforcer1 votes

Khm, Elise was brutally killed. Rest in nerf, sister.

Scorpionex1 votes

If they want his q to be his primary play pattern then they either need to buff the base q without isolation or completely take away the isolation passive and balance him like that because his q has near laughable damage when a target is not isolated. Honestly i think just taking away the isolation thing would do wonders to being able to balance him in any meaningful way while still maintaining the image he has as an evolving hunter because of the kit passive he has. Idk just my two cents because it would be so much easier to balance him without the passive. Either way though something needs to be done about the passive in order for players to actually want to evolve it and play like many people say a healthy champion.

To be honest i know w is strong right now and could use some small nerfs because of the utility it brings but some buffs elsewhere would make kha players not feel like the most hated player base on the planet.

In conclusion riot please listen make his q more reliable....I along with prob a majority of the kha player base don't like being forced to play a poke bot but can't play anything else because its not conducive with being the most powerful champion we can be

As an aside: Please make it so his isolation passive is seen all over the map not just when kha is near its silly that so many ganks fail because they realize I'm somewhere near and tower hug like annie hugging tibbers.... i know not the best joke in the world but this would be a really good qol buff for kha without directly buffing him...

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