How good would Thornmail be if it was reverted to 2000g reflect 30% damage?

Weensw·1/2/2019, 6:04:21 AM·4 votes·3,530 views

How good would thornmail be if it was reverted back to before all the changes and was: 2000 gold Made from Chain Vest and Cloth Armor -100 Armor -Reflect back 30% of the damage from auto attacks back to it's owner.

Long time ago, I used to be able to build this item and beat late game Master Yi and Fiora with a tank. Of course, that was before their rework, I doubt I can do it again if the item was reverted back due to them having true damage. However, this would allow tanks to fare way better against bruisers/assassins/ADCs compared to now.

Of course, a lot of things had changed between back then and now, such as the damage formula change. How do you think the old thornmail would perform in today's League of Legends?

14 Comments

LTK KoRo1/2/2019, 1:00:28 PM2 votes

I used to be able to build this item and beat late game Master Yi and Fiora with a tank.

This is the fundamental problem of old Thornmail. As a tank, no matter which one, you shouldn't be able to beat Yi/Fiora in a duel. Especially when their best counterplay to your Thornmail is "don't AA you".

If tank can duel a Fiora/Yi, teamfight better than Fiora/Yi, be stronger in early than Fiora/Yi then what's the point of playing fiora or yi?

TrikzterzArma1/2/2019, 9:17:41 AM2 votes

Or it could exist two kinds of Thornmail. One that has the stats it has now, and one having the old stats (and you can't have both ofc) . That way a tank could easier build depend on how the enemy team looks like.

AlienPrimate1/2/2019, 6:08:45 AM2 votes

Pick Chogath , have 6k HP, anyone with 2k or less hp kills themselves no matter what.

That idea is dumb.

LazyW0lf1/2/2019, 3:39:47 PM1 votes

Its power budget was shifted to give it Grievous Wounds and health which it desperately needs. If you revert it back to 30% damage and 100 armor then you must get rid of that too.

The design of the item was never meant to kill, it was meant to be a deterrent to ADC's who would use tanks as health batteries with their lifesteal and as a counter to on-hit hybrid builds. Converting the stats to give it Grievous Wounds, less armor, and some health fulfills all of those original design points while also making the item useful against other sources of damage. Old Thornmail also had a 20 damage minimum return, while "new" thornmail has 33 damage minimum and scales.

I don't think it would be a good idea to revert it in the current state of the game, tanks really need a source of Grievous Wounds and tank items need health to deal with true damage and other damage threats. I think it needs to scale harder with bonus armor if anything so that it can be better into all AD teams.

Sewer Side1/2/2019, 10:01:32 AM1 votes

Sure, if it was an active.

Permanent passive? Fuck no. A tank used to buy that item and force the ADC to spec into MR and Lifesteal just to negate the return damage (which cost more than Thornmail did). And that was back when ADCs could actually fit MR and Lifesteal into their build.

chipndip11/2/2019, 7:33:05 AM1 votes

Or we just don't.

Daddy Ants1/2/2019, 1:38:17 PM1 votes

How about No.