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Why isn't Ivern being looked at?

Disembark··24 votes·1,990 views

The dude has a ridiculous win rate and has TOXIC gameplay.

Its not just the low elo people on boards saying it either, its the challenger AND PRO PLAYERS (Inori in Imaqtpie & Scarras BTR, or Doublelift on Imaqtpie and Scarras BTR) and so on, for multiple weeks have discussed the anomaly that is Ivern.

He can cheese jungle camps super easily, can gank non-stop ebcause he doesn't have to clear. So given this...

WHY is he allowed to give his buffs? Why the fk should I have to lane against a top laner with a 7:30 red buff while his jungler doesn't lose anything.

Why does Daisy have a non-existant cooldown and make every skillshot champ rip their hair our because while his team pummels you, your team has to deal with this stupid thing. In any team fight those wasted cooldowns mean A LOT. It can be used to siege towers, zone enemies, block skillshots. Its cooldown shouldn't be non-existant.

Why does he get free vision and objective control with his W?

When most champs had over a 55% w/r for 1 patch they get gutted instantly...

45 Comments

Shuyin17814 votes

I love people like you that never reads what Riot posts before crying about a champion. They have plans to look at Ivern after the upcoming patch, after the mid-season update is out.

pulledchicken3 votes

but why so late? and there r allot of other champs who need an eye on. the Tank update is totally unnecessary!

Shuyin1783 votes

Because the way they have Ivern's kit setup he's difficult to balance. Honestly one of the few things I can see them being able to do to Ivern is making his shield not explode for the slow if it gets popped like Sion's shield losing its AOE when it gets popped, another being them removing the ability to pull yourself to someone that was hit by his Q.

The tank update is actually a required thing though. Maokai needed a new ult so they could properly balance him, with his old AOE damage reduction nuking ult it drained pretty much every ounce of power he had to the point they nerfed him to the ground.

Zac (from the perspective of a Rank 6 Zac mind you) suffered from boring spells that weren't his E. While I love Zac, after you used E and R he didn't bring much else to the table. Riot was correct on what needed to change about him.

Sejuani suffered from the same thing Maokai did, all of her power going to her ult. The ability to AOE 5-man stun is fun and crazy good, but at the same time it also makes it where the rest of her kit has to suck.

Fed by Snu Snu6 votes

{quoted}

Because the way they have Ivern's kit setup he's difficult to balance. Honestly one of the few things I can see them being able to do to Ivern is making his shield not explode for the slow if it gets popped like Sion's shield losing its AOE when it gets popped, another being them removing the ability to pull yourself to someone that was hit by his Q.

The tank update is actually a required thing though. Maokai needed a new ult so they could properly balance him, with his old AOE damage reduction nuking ult it drained pretty much every ounce of power he had to the point they nerfed him to the ground.

Zac (from the perspective of a Rank 6 Zac mind you) suffered from boring spells that weren't his E. While I love Zac, after you used E and R he didn't bring much else to the table. Riot was correct on what needed to change about him.

Sejuani suffered from the same thing Maokai did, all of her power going to her ult. The ability to AOE 5-man stun is fun and crazy good, but at the same time it also makes it where the rest of her kit has to suck.

Here's the thing though.

The tank update is absolutely useless as long as Riot allows Lee Sin to dictate the jungle meta.

Sejuani and Zac weren't bad, they were just severely punished from Lee's invades. And this will continue to be true.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

Really? As a rank 6 Zac player who thinks he's boring to play, you think Riot made the right changes? They didn't touch his W, the least tanky thing about him. Why not remove some boring AOE damage for more CC? AP Zac will still be a thing and tank Zac has a useless low damage no impact ability.

Shuyin1782 votes

You clearly don't really know Zac if you're calling his W weak. His W is pretty much the only reason he can even jungle with its AOE % HP damage with a low cooldown allowing you to sustain with your passive over and over again.

You should learn about a champion before you call one of their most useful tools useless.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Hah, they're nerfing Sejuani's W and that was her main way of clearing the jungle as well. They put damage into her passive to compensate.

And they could have easily made his Q deal bonus damage to monsters or something to make sure he could still jungle. One of his abilities doesn't need to be completely dedicated to his farming if it means restricting his ability to tank correctly in team fights.

Shuyin1783 votes

Sej's W was changed, but is still good for clearing the jungle. If used correctly you can still clear Raptors pretty quickly with the ability to hit almost all of them with both strikes as shown by people on the PBE. Her E has also been turned into a great clearing tool with the amount of damage output it has on the break hit.

AwesomeGuyDj1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wtNdnmGX,comment-id=000300000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-01T20:31:49.653+0000)

Hah, they're nerfing Sejuani's W and that was her main way of clearing the jungle as well. They put damage into her passive to compensate.

And they could have easily made his Q deal bonus damage to monsters or something to make sure he could still jungle. One of his abilities doesn't need to be completely dedicated to his farming if it means restricting his ability to tank correctly in team fights.

that would imply his W isnt usefull in team fights, it is. Its 100 base dmg+8% of there max hp every 5 seconds. Its decent damage to spam in the fight.

Shahamut1 votes

I think her W scales off her health actually, not the enemies, but I can double check.

Shahamut1 votes

yep, scales off of her health.

Shahamut1 votes

You start level 1 with E, get a super easy stun/passive proc (basically a smite at that point) with leash you basically take no damage. W level 2. Now you have your AoE strikes plus the ability to stun the big ones for massive damage. You initially take next to no damage from her passive, and after level 7 jungle monsters and minions don't break your resist buffs... Sej jungles just fine.

Ralanr1 votes

Why his shield gives a punishment for breaking early is beyond me.

Euthenaasia1 votes

{quoted}

Because the way they have Ivern's kit setup he's difficult to balance. Honestly one of the few things I can see them being able to do to Ivern is making his shield not explode for the slow if it gets popped like Sion's shield losing its AOE when it gets popped, another being them removing the ability to pull yourself to someone that was hit by his Q.

The tank update is actually a required thing though. Maokai needed a new ult so they could properly balance him, with his old AOE damage reduction nuking ult it drained pretty much every ounce of power he had to the point they nerfed him to the ground.

Zac (from the perspective of a Rank 6 Zac mind you) suffered from boring spells that weren't his E. While I love Zac, after you used E and R he didn't bring much else to the table. Riot was correct on what needed to change about him.

Sejuani suffered from the same thing Maokai did, all of her power going to her ult. The ability to AOE 5-man stun is fun and crazy good, but at the same time it also makes it where the rest of her kit has to suck.

Sure Maokai needed a new ult but this ult is truly a joke and unoriginal. Nami's ult as a root that's even more slow moving and supportlike than Nami's. Sad and unimpressive. I'd rather see more effort in this tank update first than expect them to balance a complex champion like ivern properly.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

The only thing Maokai's ultimate really has is the width.

Nami's ultimate moves faster, applies a stronger CC (knock-up vs snare) and passes through units. It has the added benefit of applying her passive to any allies it passes through.

Glory ln Death1 votes

There's a few things they could do to try and bring Ivern in line, really.

  • Make his shield no longer slow and/or damage when broken.

  • Increase his shield's cooldown/make it start cooling down when the shield is destroyed, rather than when cast (makes it more punishing to use the shield offensively as a slow while chasing).

  • Make Daisy's cooldown begin when she dies, like Yorick's Maiden.

  • Allow anyone with Smite to insta-clear Groved camps, not just Ivern (allows him to still invade very easily, but he can also be invaded more easily than other junglers).

  • -5 AD :P

nice table1 votes

a champion has been really really broken for half a year and they will look at him in 2 patches for another bush nerf that doesn't affect him at all :^) don't qq bois riot has it under control.

Rainfall1 votes

riot's last resort to shutting the boards and reddit up is making a meaningless post saying they may look at something in the future. Good job helping them Good boy.

Genjab5 votes

As an Ivern main... You're 100% spot on. This champ is way too busted. I climbed to Diamond with him then people finally started perma-banning him.

His kit is just way too overloaded.

Then on top of it all, they nerf his w to not obscure vision of epic monsters... OF ALL THE THINGS THEY SHOULD HAVE NERFED. Don't get me wrong, this was a much needed nerf but come on. Why start AND STOP there.

Tbh, I think Riot gets way too attached to their champions. Ivern is incredibly unique but why can he just do so much stuff. This guy can deal damage, cc their whole team, and shield yours, all simultaneously.

I don't know why they have not nerfed this guy yet.

Fed by Snu Snu1 votes

{quoted} Tbh, I think Riot gets way too attached to their champions.

This has been Riot's main detriment to achieving actual balance since pretty much ever.

The other is how some champion designers just don't know when to stop on their hell bent journey to prove how creative they are.

Chaosedge1 votes

Is that why they nerfed Sona into the gutter? Why she has the lowest base HP in the game and gets nuked by pretty much anything?

Euthenaasia2 votes

lol shutup

Chaosedge1 votes

Why? Because you can't give me a decent answer?

Handin Out Naps1 votes

People get real tired of Sona players crying.

Chaosedge1 votes

I'm not even a Sona player. I love her and all but I dont one trick her and I want a serious answer.

Rainfall4 votes

Ivern is a support that is why he is allowed to be broken,the same goes for support items,it will take months or even years for riot to balance them.

ScissorsNstuff3 votes

because

  1. he already got nerfed so bullshit
  2. there's a tank rework coming so everything you know is a lie
2Behold3 votes

Ivern has seen a decent amount of nerfs since release and really only quality of life changes. As far as I understand the reason Riot isn't obliterating him is because what makes him strong is that his playstyle is unique. A Support Jungle is bound to be difficult to balance in the meta where he is the only one. Its kinda like how Kindred was super strong and is still seeing reductions in reliability in 7.5. Ivern will either need to be made unplayable or the meta will need to shift (something I assume Riot is waiting to see will happen with midseason about to hit)

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Ivern has received several indirect buffs which greatly affected his strength.

[1] Support itemization (i.e. Redemption, Locket) are very powerful and cheap

[2] The strength of jungle camps was increased to make them more difficult to clear (which didn't affect Ivern's clear whatsoever).

[3] Reduced gold/experience from jungle camps doesn't really affect him due to his utility and itemization

2Behold1 votes

Yeah but like I said this is all due to him being a support Jungle, nerfing him wont do anything really because what makes him strong in the jungle is how hes played and how teams have to change how they play with and against him. Plus like I said im betting he will see something come midseason patch

Kaeblen1 votes

item 3107 is a big problem all by itself.

Oleandervine2 votes

They said they'd do a deep dive on Ivern after mid season.

pulledchicken1 votes

nahh bro Ivern isn't the real prob. better look at Darius Khazix Galio Amumu Nunu

EDIT: yea OFC i get downvoted LMAO wonder why.....

Euthenaasia1 votes

{quoted}

nahh bro Ivern isn't the real prob. better look at Darius Khazix Galio Amumu Nunu

EDIT: yea OFC i get downvoted LMAO wonder why.....

You got downvoted because Darius is pubstomp trash, Nunu is truly irrelevant when he isn't ulting and the other champions have been seeing changes almost every patch.

pulledchicken2 votes

teach me master!

DaNinad2 votes

{quoted}

nahh bro Ivern isn't the real prob. better look at Darius Khazix Galio Amumu Nunu

EDIT: yea OFC i get downvoted LMAO wonder why.....

Nunu?

pulledchicken1 votes

yea Nunu!

BioticBrony1 votes

I think they are looking at him. It is just that Iverns kit itself isn't OP. While his ability to invade and control objectives is great and his utility is great plus he enables others to carry instead of himself. The main thing that is the problem with him is that he can itemize really well. Items that are meant for supports which are cheap in regards to how much supports earn, he can grab really fast due to having a jungler income which is greater than a supports.

Nerfing the wrong thing in his kit could accidentally 'sejuani' him when they finally do something about support items.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

it's for the same reason jhin's 55% wr wasnt addressed in time.

He will get nerfed some time tho, just like jhin

Disembark1 votes

Jhin never really had a 55% w/r though.. He stuck around 52% to 54% and only for like a few patches DURING THE PRESEASON. He just had an absurd pick rate which is why people whined.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

ivern is like one if not the only champion that isn't scared of lee sin early invades.

Ivern and Irelia1 votes

You could not be more wrong my friend. Infact Ivern is extremely vunerable to early invades. He has zero dueling power and often does not have a leash. So a level 1 lee or graves can shut Ivern down early and keep him down all game.

Ivern and Irelia1 votes

Hello there friend. I recently made an in depth post discussing Ivern's issues and ideas for potential changes. Id greatly appreciate it if you took a look.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xEcuPAmP-the-official-unoffcial-ivern-mains-discussion-on-ivern

Sincerely, your residential Ivern main

Lugg1 votes

They need to increase the CD on his shield and he would be much more balanced.

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