Can we please do something about Yasuo's unplayable early game?
He can't even survive bans.
He can't even survive bans.
this should be in M&Gs
But it's Yasuo related so we can make an exception this time.
We could make a case that this is about "change yasuo so he doesn't get permabanned" I'm not sure if it is though
Just like about 95% of threads posted in Gameplay.
Aw, low elo, where people still ban Yasuo.
Aw, low elo, where people still ban Yasuo.
I guess Doublelift is low Elo, considering he bans Yasuo in almost every game.
Congrats, you found the 1 pro who gives a shit about Yasuo. As a counterpoint, I present literally every other pro.
Congrats, you found the 1 pro who gives a shit about Yasuo. As a counterpoint, I present literally every other pro.
Watching Scarra's stream and Yasuo is still getting banned. So much for "every other pro".
I guess your Elo is low Elo too, because Yasuo has almost a 50% banrate in plat+.
A shame your stats are outdated. OP.gg has it down to 30% now. And I get him more often than not.
A shame your stats are outdated. OP.gg has it down to 30% now. And I get him more often than not.
Champion.gg has stats for the current patch.
http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo
na.op.gg also has Yasuo at a 50% ban rate.
Champion.gg has stats from the first 4 days of the patch. The patch came out 19 days ago. There's a reason more up to date sites disagree with champion.gg; learn how it actually works before you cite it mindlessly.
Champion.gg has stats from the first 4 days of the patch. The patch came out 19 days ago. There's a reason more up to date sites disagree with champion.gg; learn how it actually works before you cite it mindlessly.
Champion.gg's stats are updated daily, except for when a new patch comes out, where they wait for additional data before displaying anything.
They're not even close to updated daily; unless you mean to tell me that there's only been 2.2 million Plat+ ranked games in the past 3 weeks. Frankly, champion.gg has been outclassed by other stats tracking websites for over a year and I have no idea why people defer to it so heavily. LeagueofGraphs.com , OP.gg, Lolalytics.com , and even LolKing.net all provide far more accurate and up to date stats than Champion.gg does.
They're not even close to updated daily; unless you mean to tell me that there's only been 2.2 million Plat+ ranked games in the past 3 weeks. Frankly, champion.gg has been outclassed by other stats tracking websites for over a year and I have no idea why people defer to it so heavily. LeagueofGraphs.com , OP.gg, Lolalytics.com , and even LolKing.net all provide far more accurate and up to date stats than Champion.gg does.
Not every single game is tracked, it doesn't work that way for any tracking service. And I just pointed out OP.GG which has similar data, which you haven't responded to.
Again relying on out of date information that goes back a month rather than only counting more recent data.
You see these banrate lists?
http://na.op.gg/champion/statistics NA Yasuo: 29.58%
http://euw.op.gg/champion/statistics EUW Yasuo 33.15%.
His banrate in Korea is so low that he doesn't even appear in the top 10 bans, and we need to go to his trending data in order to see how often he's banned there. http://www.op.gg/champion/yasuo/statistics/top KR Yasuo 14%.
Again relying on out of date information that goes back a month rather than only counting more recent data.
You see these banrate lists?
http://na.op.gg/champion/statistics NA Yasuo: 29.58%
http://euw.op.gg/champion/statistics EUW Yasuo 33.15%.
His banrate in Korea is so low that he doesn't even appear in the top 10 bans, and we need to go to his trending data in order to see how often he's banned there. http://www.op.gg/champion/yasuo/statistics/top KR Yasuo 14%.
http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/
Sort by last 7 days.
Congrats, Yasuo has a 50% banrate across all elos over the last 7 days. I don't give a shit about what bronze, silver, and gold players are doing. In my last 20 ranked games, Yasuo has only been banned 6 times. Fact is, massive ban rates on Yasuo is primarily a low elo thing, not a high elo one. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was my entire point all along.
Aw, low elo, where people still ban Yasuo.
Congrats, Yasuo has a 50% banrate across all elos over the last 7 days. I don't give a shit about what bronze, silver, and gold players are doing. Fact is, massive ban rates on Yasuo is primarily a low elo thing, not a high elo one. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was my entire point all along.
Your data has a wider range than the data I have brought. Champion.gg has similar data. You are completely ignoring any data that doesn't support your claim.
You do realize you are in low elo as well right? In your most recent games you only played with low plat and gold 3-1s. That is low elo.
My main is in promos to plat 1 right now, and that's what I was talking about. This account was plat 1 when the season ended.
You think Scarra is playing with pros ROFL. I guarantee you it's not the LCS players banning Yasuo; it's the D3 shitter that shouldn't even be in their game.
You think Scarra is playing with pros ROFL. I guarantee you it's not the LCS players banning Yasuo; it's the D3 shitter that shouldn't even be in their game.
I guess players like Valkrin with challenger borders just got boosted.
Jesus christ you need to learn to shut up and accept defeat already. Just admit you were wrong, you jabberino.
Your MMR shows you are playing with gold 3s, good job. Bash other low elos when you are 1 yourself. Stop talking, seriously. You got NOTHING behind your claims, only your false assumption that you being in plat translates to being good. You aren't good when you are getting matched with people bellow your division.
Case closed. And if you dare bring ranks up, my rank is bigger than yours and guess what, unlike you, I AM facing people of my level/above my level.
There's a reason I haven't played on this account in 7 days. Can you guess what it is? It rhymes with Turf Amount, and it's not one I particularly care about either.
Not that anything you said is even remotely relevant anyway. The idea that Yasuo should be permabanned exists only in low elo; plat and above players really don't care that much. You play in that elo, so you should know; Yasuo gets though all the damn time.
There's a reason I haven't played on this account in 7 days. Can you guess what it is? It rhymes with Turf Amount, and it's not one I particularly care about either.
Not that anything you said is even remotely relevant anyway. The idea that Yasuo should be permabanned exists only in low elo; plat and above players really don't care that much. You play in that elo, so you should know; Yasuo gets though all the damn time.
The idea exists in high elo aswell, but it's not for the same reason. I play top and I permaban yasuo. Why? I don't wanna be forced to play a counter (because playing sion or any other immobile tank vs an yasuo is nightmare) and literally blow my head off the whole game trying not to tilt because this character is allowed to have infinite jumps in the early game. I don't think yas is strong, in fact, I do think he is pretty weak overall, but he is still a pain in the ass.
And before you come and tell me to get good, I've faced literally any assassin and won my lanes easily. Yasuo is still pretty easy to beat, but it requires an obscene amount of effort to not tilt not because he can kill me, but because him jumping around constantly is irritating lol.
In my honest opinion, riot should remove his no cd jumps in the early game in exchange for a far better dueling power.
He has a 49% ban rate in Platinum+.
Honestly, half of that is probably players not wanting him on their team.
He has a 49% ban rate in Platinum+.
Honestly, half of that is probably players not wanting him on their team.
And people don't want him on their team because they're shit, and they can't practice because he's always banned...
It's a vicious cycle.
Translation of Apdo, Korean pro, on Yasuo: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/545try/apdos_thoughts_stream_after_hitting_rank_1_korea/
"Bullshit aside Yasuo is a broken champion. People say he's a high skillcap champion, but the secret with Yasuo is knowing how to control yourself while playing such a overpowered champion. Yasuo's weakness comes from the fact that he is too strong. His laning phase is so strong that after the laning phase people do not know how to keep calm and throw the game."
I was wondering how long it was going to be before Apdo was quoted. Here's another gem of his:
"Ryze is trash, maybe for Faker senpai, but the 'high-skillcap' thing is bullshit"
I was wondering how long it was going to be before Apdo was quoted. Here's another gem of his:
"Ryze is trash, maybe for Faker senpai, but the 'high-skillcap' thing is bullshit"
He was right in the sense that Ryze is very bad outside of the hands of a dedicated Ryze main (suck as Faker) statistically. Just so happened that it took more time for players to master Ryze than it did for other traditionally high-skillcap champions initially (for reference, champions like Thresh and Yasuo reached the high 50s in winrate for the average player in 2-3 weeks after their release, whereas Ryze still sits at an abysmal winrate for the average player.)
Now are you going to address my other points or ignore them? You have already used the no true Scotsman fallacy and continue to move the goalposts, how much deeper will you dig yourself?
I already addressed your points. I said that massive Yasuo bans was a low elo thing and provided extensive evidence of this fact. In return, you tried to force me to prove he wasn't getting banned at all, which I never claimed, nor would I claim because of course Yasuo gets banned in low elo. When I refused to argue for a claim I never made, you came at me with a bullshit quote from Apdo that has absolutely 0 relevance at this juncture. I've more than fulfilled my burden of proof, so either accept it or drop the subject. Yasuo's super high banrate is largely a low elo problem. Why? Because he's a noob stomper. Guess where the noobs play.
I already addressed your points. I said that massive Yasuo bans was a low elo thing and provided extensive evidence of this fact. In return, you tried to force me to prove he wasn't getting banned at all, which I never claimed, nor would I claim because of course Yasuo gets banned in low elo. When I refused to argue for a claim I never made, you came at me with a bullshit quote from Apdo that has absolutely 0 relevance at this juncture. I've more than fulfilled my burden of proof, so either accept it or drop the subject. Yasuo's super high banrate is largely a low elo problem. Why? Because he's a noob stomper. Guess where the noobs play.
Aw, low elo, where people still ban Yasuo.
The above is a quote from you earlier in this thread.
So which is it? Do you think Yasuo bans are just a low Elo thing? Because that is categorically untrue, which you have failed to prove. The "extensive evidence" you have provided is one site, which has two different statistics for it - it doesn't have a label for the first, but the second, which is from the last 7 days, has Yasuo at a 50% ban rate. You have also tried to deny evidence that contradicted your statement with the "no true Scotsman" fallacy (well, obviously the challenger-level players playing with Scarra don't count, they don't support my argument! Well, obviously Apdo's thoughts have no relevance here, because it contradicts my statement, so I'll try to find one area he was only half-right in!") These are very common diversion tactics which are meant to subvert an argument rather than address it.
The idea that Yasuo is a must ban monster is a low elo phenomenon. High elo still bans the champ sometimes but nowhere near the level that low elo players do. Like I said, he's been banned in only 6 of my last 20 ranked games, which is a 30% banrate. Still substantial, but nowhere near permaban like he is in lower elos. That was my entire fucking point. If you had actually clicked the links I have you, you'd see the supporting evidence. The data displayed under Champion Analytics on op.gg are Plat+ only while the stats you cited are all elos. In Plat+, which is the elo we're actually talking about, his banrate is 30% in NA, 33% in EUW, and a measly 14% in Korea. I don't care what Yasuo's banrate is overall because that's not we're discussing; we're talking entirely about players who aren't low elo, that being plat and up. Plat and up players ban Yasuo less than a third of the time. The Koreans don't even ban him 20% of the time, and they're supposedly the best at the game. Do the Koreans know better or not? Because they don't care about Yasuo, and neither should anyone else. At best, Yasuo is slightly too strong and could stand to have his early game weakened a tad. However, even if he is too strong, he still has a multitude of counterpick options, provides significant counterplay even when not countered, and takes skill to actually play well. That's the kind of champ that should be popular and strong.
The idea that Yasuo is a must ban monster is a low elo phenomenon. High elo still bans the champ sometimes but nowhere near the level that low elo players do. Like I said, he's been banned in only 6 of my last 20 ranked games, which is a 30% banrate. Still substantial, but nowhere near permaban like he is in lower elos. That was my entire fucking point. If you had actually clicked the links I have you, you'd see the supporting evidence. The data displayed under Champion Analytics on op.gg are Plat+ only while the stats you cited are all elos. In Plat+, which is the elo we're actually talking about, his banrate is 30% in NA, 33% in EUW, and a measly 14% in Korea. I don't care what Yasuo's banrate is overall because that's not we're discussing; we're talking entirely about players who aren't low elo, that being plat and up. Plat and up players ban Yasuo less than a third of the time. The Koreans don't even ban him 20% of the time, and they're supposedly the best at the game. Do the Koreans know better or not? Because they don't care about Yasuo, and neither should anyone else. At best, Yasuo is slightly too strong and could stand to have his early game weakened a tad. However, even if he is too strong, he still has a multitude of counterpick options, provides significant counterplay even when not countered, and takes skill to actually play well. That's the kind of champ that should be popular and strong.
I've also cited data for plat+ games from the current patch which have Yasuo at around a 50% banrate, which you conveniently ignore because it doesn't conform to your viewpoint. The data you cited has not given a range - it could be month-old data including games before his banrate started to pick up, for all we know. All other data from everywhere else cites a 50% banrate. He gets banned in high-level games, which you have also ignored because it didn't cite your viewpoint (claiming that Doublelift was the only professional player who bans Yasuo is categorically wrong.) Are you going to keep ignoring everything which doesn't fit your viewpoint, or no?
Not to mention that your current definition of low Elo is "anything that's not the pinnacle of Korean play," which is a pretty narrow view.
You've cited outdated data when more up to date information is available. I've even gone ahead and directed you to that up to date info, but you've chosen to ignore it for reasons you've yet to give me. What you believe is irrelevant regardless; Yasuo is banned around 30% of the time in Plat+ elo and that means I get to play him all the time and crush your crybabies with it. You guys are the ones with a problem here, not me; I don't even bother banning Yasuo when I'm not going to play him because he's easy to beat if you actually know how to play.
You've cited outdated data when more up to date information is available. I've even gone ahead and directed you to that up to date info, but you've chosen to ignore it for reasons you've yet to give me. What you believe is irrelevant regardless; Yasuo is banned around 30% of the time in Plat+ elo and that means I get to play him all the time and crush your crybabies with it. You guys are the ones with a problem here, not me; I don't even bother banning Yasuo when I'm not going to play him because he's easy to beat if you actually know how to play.
I've already shown you data from the most recent patch available and from the past 7 days, and you just claim the data is outdated without any source behind it. (I'm plat as well, and Yasuo here is hit-or-miss - it depends a lot more on the Yasuo player than his opponents, though.)
Champion.gg only loads data from the 1st week of the patch and then doesn't update it at all, no matter how long the patch is. On the longer patches like this one, it leads to its data being very inaccurate. For the same reason, it almost always misses hotfix balance changes, leading people to believe that the changes made no difference when, in reality, champion.gg simply hasn't updated their data. Because of its lack of updates, it also fails to correct to ununusual spikes or dips in winrate. The best example atm is Jarvan top. On champion.gg, it has a 53.5% winrate. Is J4 top actually that good? No, it isn't. In actuality, it has 48.5% winrate. But champion.gg hasn't bothered to update their data since his lucky streak early on in the patch. Champion.gg is a useful site, to be sure, but it's absolutely not because it has good, up to date statistics on champion.
Champion.gg also has another fatal flaw: it weights all data equally rather than discarding old data in favor of new data. Right after the kog rework, he was left with an absolutely abysmal winrate due to a bug on his W that Riot hotfixed 3 days after the patch. Before the hotfix, his winrate was 42%. After the hotfix, his winrate jumped to 56%. However, champion.gg weighted both his pre-hotfix and post-hotfix games equally, displaying around a 46% winrate while every other stats site correctly showed his winrate at 56%. This led people to believe that rework Kog was still shit, when it actuality, it was unbelieveably broken.
It's been 19 days since the patch released, and that means it's been 12 days since the site has seen any updated statistics. Champion.gg would have you believe that Camille has only a 24% banrate. In actuality, she's banned a whopping 60% of the time. That's the difference that 12 day old data will make. Champion.gg simply isn't a reliable source for champion statistics, and they become worse and worse the longer the patch goes on.
As much as I like Yasuo, he might be a tad bit too strong now. However I think the problem is
and would rather they nerf the item instead.
[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wsGlqOPR,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-12-26T07:39:54.560+0000)
As much as I like Yasuo, he might be a tad bit too strong now. However I think the problem is
and would rather they nerf the item instead.
+1
2800 g is too cheap for that.
I always say that when people want nerfs for Yasuo, its like, the adc that uses this best is also OP, coincidence? But the people who want Yas nerfed are the ones who want to never be corrected or forced to learn.
Just overloaded laning phase that's annoying to deal with, so people just ban him because he is hard to lane against
Outside of lane (unless he gets some massive wombo combo going), he doesnt do much though.
Sometimes people also ban a champ that is very heavily played. I did it with Lee Sin for a bit last patch. Just tired of seeing the same champ every game sometimes.
Lee is legit op
Let's introduce more bans.
Just to be sure.
Yasuo just has the GP problem atm, his laning phase is too strong for his scaling.
Once they make him an actual weak laner then he'll be fairly balanced.
Poor yasuo though. Right now basically every champ shits on GP toplane. Mid is a bit easier when the enemy is not cassio or syndra or viktor.
Poor yasuo though. Right now basically every champ shits on GP toplane. Mid is a bit easier when the enemy is not cassio or syndra or viktor.
And GP is still super strong because he outgolds everyone by just farming, has a global ult and hyper scales into the late game.
GP should have never had a laning phase in the first place, just like yasuo shouldnt be beating melee champions early game too.
I think one of the reasons why Yasuo is annoying is because his kit can be very forgiving compared to other champions. He doesn't have mana to manage, and his shield, windwall, and E mobility making it very hard to trade with him. Add Warlord's Bloodlust and it can be rather difficult to make damage stick to a half-decent Yasuo. The only champions that can deal with Yasuo consistently tend to be those that have targetted damage and/or can outtank or sustain his damage in trades such as
(and maybe
, not sure since her mini rework) etc...
It sucks that he pretty much gets instantly banned for this though. Riot should take a look at him and see what they can tune so that he remains playable but doesn't feel as unfair to play against.