A single pixel of Nami's gigantic ult touches the very edge of Yasuo's W

1 800 GGTOOEZ·Sep 9, 2015·382 votes·13,162 views

Entire ult is deleted.

278 Comments

Spicy RiceSep 9, 2015129 votes

Yet graves cant have a fucking cigar

5000000000000000Sep 9, 201529 votes

Yasuo windwalled in his face.

The Yetii RiderSep 10, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0YeNFyiA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-09T16:34:19.728+0000)

Yet graves cant have a fucking cigar

So glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this.

Woook3rSep 9, 201579 votes

Yasuo should not have this ability. Braum is a support so its kind of ok. Yasuo should not be given the ability to block more auto attacks from the adc than braum himself can. Braum takes more dmg from autos than yasuo...yasuo is a carry and is therefore supposed to be vulnerable, braum is a defensive support and is supposed to be less vulnerable. hmm contradictions.

NaharaSep 9, 201515 votes

Fun Fact: The ability to create a wall that blocks all projectiles is something Riot has been working on for a while, but could never settle on what kind of champion to put it on (I believe they originally wanted to put this on a ranged champion); thus, they consulted some pro players to see what they think. It was HotshotGG who suggested that such a move be put into the kit of a melee carry to help their survivability.

I'd grab the actual quote, but I can't seem to find any links to the Yasuo Q&A that went out when he was released.

NarasimhaSep 9, 201573 votes

..yasuo is a carry and is therefore supposed to be vulnerable

Tryndamere - Self heal, immunity to death MasterYi - Self heal, damage reduction, slow immunity, can go untargetable Fiora - Heal, can block ANYTHING for a short duration Jax - AA dodge, defensive steroid

Melee carries are NOT meant to be as vulnerable. Thats an advantage they get over their ranged counterparts.

Lord LigmaSep 9, 20157 votes

Well the problem with that(asides from tryndamere) is that most of these champs need fold or kills to be good. YAsuo needs a shiv then he's dashing like the op nerd he is. Dodge his q? yeah avoid that while you lose cs

NarasimhaSep 9, 201524 votes

Not at all. Carries only scale with items. If they can farm that gold through any means, they're solid. In fact, Yasuo has one of the LOWEST damage outputs of any melee carry. Let that sink in.

Lord LigmaSep 9, 20152 votes

[deleted]

Shield VillainSep 9, 20155 votes

You know what crit needs to be good? Some decent damage. You can build all the crit you want. 150 attack damage at reduced crit isn't going to be as helpful as straight up damage.

SaphixiaSep 9, 20154 votes

yeah, coz critplank doesnt deal ANY damage cough cough over 1000 per Parrrley cough cough

Big LincolnSep 10, 201517 votes

it's almost like he builds damage to make the crits hurt

Sozan5Sep 10, 201534 votes

There is however one big difference between them...

Trynda heal and ultimate only affect himself. Yi heal, damage reduction, slow immunity and untargetability only affect himself. Jax AA dodge and defensive steroids only affect himself. Fiora riposte affects only herself. Her heal is very conditional at least (still, I don't think she should have it).

You see the problem here? Yasuo not only blocks projectile for himself, he does it for his entire team (on top of his self only shield).

And another problem: Yasuo wind wall is unique in that it completely removes the skills/attacks from existence - contrary to other defensive steroids, like spellshield, Fiora riposte etc, which only block the ability for you. Not even Braum wall does that.

I think Yasuo wall should be reworked a bit (for example, making the skills and autoattacks actually break on the wind wall, rather than disappering) or completely replaced with another ability (Maybe a spellshield? If procced it could give Yasuo his flow back and possibly reduce its cooldown).

NarasimhaSep 10, 201514 votes

Well said. On the other, Yasuo's wall is also defensive ability with the most counterplay. For a start, it does essentially nothing to any melee opponent. He's forced to rely on his shield, which isn't as strong as it once was. Basically, he's a carry that does EXACTLY what he was designed to do. Be good at team plays. Unlike other carries, he's more reliant on his team, and he in turns rewards them for their help.

JavelinJoeSep 10, 20151 votes

Although true that it can be defensive, i've seen pretty offensive uses of the wall in a defensive way. Let me explain, Yasuo can place his wall and then keep maneuvering through it to poke any ranged champ and quickly dash back before the return damage hits him so that it disappears with his wall, essentially making him invulnerable to damage from any ranged champ. If by chance he misses the timing of the retreat, his passive shield will tank the shot. Maybe if the wall would break after one ult or a damage absorb cap, or even last a shorter duration it could be more balanced. Because if you are an ADC and you run from Yasuo he probably will catch you and then you will likely die if your team can't help you.

NarasimhaSep 10, 20157 votes

If he's using Windwall for small tricks like that, then any decent mid laner should be able to destroy him. That means it won't be up for when they decide to unleash their big combo.

Also

Because if you are an ADC and you run from Yasuo he probably will catch you and then you will likely die if your team can't help you.

This is the case with ADCS and EVERYONE. Well, everyone other than tanks. Hence why ADCs are glass cannons. If left alone, they'll blow through everything. Catch one out, and if it isn't named Vayne, its gone.

Spizzle9000Sep 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo should not have this ability. Braum is a support so its kind of ok. Yasuo should not be given the ability to block more auto attacks from the adc than braum himself can. Braum takes more dmg from autos than yasuo...yasuo is a carry and is therefore supposed to be vulnerable, braum is a defensive support and is supposed to be less vulnerable. hmm contradictions.

One question: what do you propose in place of Yasuo's Windwall? What kind of ability could he be given that people wouldn't complain about just as much as the one he already has, but still doesn't gut him?

TaigongwangSep 9, 201528 votes

Make his Windwall not block ultimates. It should not be able to block 1+ minute cooldown abilities on a 20 second or lower cooldown.

When people say bait it out, I have NEVER seen a good Yasuo fall for the bait. Windwall comes out so fast that it is a reactionary ability, which allows him to wait for that ult to actually come out. It just should not stop ultimates without it being an ultimate itself or coming with more risk to having it block an ultimate. It also feels TERRIBLE and infuriating to see your Ult just not matter in a game.

Spizzle9000Sep 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Make his Windwall not block ultimates. It should not be able to block 1+ minute cooldown abilities on a 20 second or lower cooldown.

When people say bait it out, I have NEVER seen a good Yasuo fall for the bait. Windwall comes out so fast that it is a reactionary ability, which allows him to wait for that ult to actually come out. It just should not stop ultimates without it being an ultimate itself or coming with more risk to having it block an ultimate. It also feels TERRIBLE and infuriating to see your Ult just not matter in a game.

Then QSS shouldn't block ultimates. And Zhonya's shouldn't make you immune and untargetable for ultimates. And Sivir and Nocturne's spell shields shouldn't block ultimates either. And make it so Fiora can't parry an ultimate.

IcyPepperSep 9, 20154 votes

Not going to bother with the spellshields, but QSS and Zhonya's have 90 seconds cooldowns...

The spellshields were a much better comparison, but you shouldn't have brought up the items.

LeeDarkSep 10, 20156 votes

Why not? Doesn't Warwick feel JUST as useless if everyone gets QSS? Do you think he really gives a flying fuck that they are doing it with an item rather than an ability?

IcyPepperSep 10, 20155 votes

Hm, guess I was in the wrong there.

Way to put it into perspective there.

Auz the RipperSep 10, 20151 votes

Honestly, whenever I play champions like Malz and Warwick I'm happy when people build QSS, because it means they delayed their build by 1200 gold (equivalent to 4 kills, 8 assits or around 60 cs) just to stop me when I can still just ult someone else.

I'm especially happy if the champion in question is AP

LeeDarkSep 10, 20154 votes

Why would that make you happy? For 1200 gold, 2400 for both carries, they've basically turned the game into a 5v4.

Malz is different, since he doesn't care as much who he ults. If carries buy QSS, his kit still allows him to melt tanks. Warwick absolutely always wants a carry, though.

LuggSep 9, 201532 votes

Nami's ult should completely override Yas's wall. After all, it's an ultimate vs a normal ability. Makes complete sense to anyone with half a brain.

Ignis0Sep 9, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Nami's ult should completely override Yas's wall. After all, it's an ultimate vs a normal ability. Makes complete sense to anyone with half a brain.

Well some make sense to block with the windwall like graves ult and caitlyn ult. However this is a small windwall compared to a giant ass wave of water and shit. Nami's ult should override this.

S H A Y C 0Sep 9, 20159 votes

Nami's ult should not be considered a projectile. At worst case it should interact with wind wall like it does unbreakable, where it only works for braum, but still continues to knock everybody up. At least i think thats how it works, and even if it doesnt id be ok with this option.

manbearswineSep 9, 201524 votes

{quoted}

Well some make sense to block with the windwall like graves ult and caitlyn ult. However this is a small windwall compared to a giant ass wave of water and shit. Nami's ult should override this.

Look,let's just reach a compromise:

If nami ult even touches yasuo's windwall it gets deleted,same as now,BUT it also delete yasuo,in general,game files and everything,fuck that cancer.

Ignis0Sep 9, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Look,let's just reach a compromise:

If nami ult even touches yasuo's windwall it gets deleted,same as now,BUT it also delete yasuo,in general,game files and everything,fuck that cancer.

If it deletes Darius too I'm in.

QuortSep 9, 201537 votes

I personally disagree. Picking and choosing various skills would create a lot of confusion on what the wall blocks and it's already quite confusing. I would suggest Riot redefines what a projectile is (because I would not consider a tidal wave to be a projectile). You know what I'm saying? :3

RetillinSep 9, 201515 votes

But Riot likes the picking and choosing what skills/abilities have special properties. Like Anivia/Karth and their "crit" hit spells. Instead of just bonus damage it is a crit. So as we see Randium's reduces the damage on them. When asked, the reply was "working as intended". The whole of League would be better off, if they defined and streamlined such things. But they don't wish to. For whatever reasons.

OrangesilkSep 9, 201522 votes

Spaghetti code is 99% of why they don't fix mechanical interactions that make literally no sense.

I can GUARANTEE YOU, something like coding Tidal Wave to not be a projectile but a wide linear AoE like Xeraths Q would SOMEHOW result in Yorick instakilling an ally with his R, that's how unbelievably shitty Riots code is.

For instance, when Azirs wall was released, it became evident MANY things in LoL were coded as "invulnerable minions" with different abilities, and as such, Azirs wall would destroy things that made no sense like turrets aggro acquirers, dragon spawn points and so on.

Piggy8174Sep 10, 20153 votes

Actually, Riot recently fixed the projectile code. http://engineering.riotgames.com/news/behind-leagues-new-missile-system So it's a little less Spaghetti.

OrangesilkSep 10, 20153 votes

I... I didn't know you could physically fall in love with a page. I didn't know the engineering page was a thing, now I'm a fan.

gg git diffSep 9, 20155 votes

Nami’s ult doesn’t feel like a projectile though.

KeyoshiSep 10, 20151 votes

Yeah but how does wind block a tsunami, im sure if we could figure out the technology behind this; we could save many lives in the future.

QuortSep 10, 20152 votes

It doesn't. But I would not consider a tsunami a projectile (like I said).

Deep Terror NamiSep 9, 20158 votes

Even as a Nami main that understands very well how hard Yasuo counters her and can't stand it, I don't think Ults should ignore Windwall.

What I think is reasonable, is for skillshots from the side and behind or originating right on the wall to not be negated. Nami's Tidal Wave starts behind her (similar to Azir's) so that you can hit people right on top of you; that also means you have to walk 30 freaking feet past a Windwall before you can Ult, or it'll just disappear as it pops up.

BlastumzSep 9, 20156 votes

You know come to think of it Nami's ult shouldn't even be a proctile. It should be considered a moving AoE like Viktor's ult.

Unlucky Number7Sep 9, 201530 votes

sounds hard to code.

Deep Terror NamiSep 9, 201515 votes

I have a feeling you're absolutely right. They'd have to redo the animations too, so this would never happen.

MatezoideSep 9, 201515 votes

Thats what happens with every skill though.

Not that it isnt bullshit.

KeevalroySep 9, 201515 votes

"Healthy and interactive gameplay."

When Yasuo gets reworked into something less obnoxious with less overloaded bullshit crammed into his kit, get rid of that stupid wall.

Deep Terror NamiSep 9, 201512 votes

Hmm. You technically didn't propose this, but the conclusion is logical;

@Riot, Wide skillshots that hit Yasuo's Windwall and Braum's Unbreakable should lose that part if it's less than 50% of the width, and the rest continues on.

XaviorZeroBlazerSep 9, 20157 votes

I've blocke many MF ults with braums shield, and the parts of it I don't block are still visable and still do damage

Deep Terror NamiSep 9, 201519 votes

That spell is different. It's comprised of many separate projectiles independent of one another, while things like Tidal Wave and Trueshot Barrage are a single projectile.