@riot: im still confused as to why youre nerfing the wave clearing aspect of stattic shiv

Critmaster Garen·Mar 15, 2018·4 votes·396 views

the entire purpose of the item was supposed to be a waveclear tool for marksmen, and not an assassination tool, like its been abused for who knows how long now.

why isnt the champion damage nerfed before everything else? one would think its obvious to remove the shiv lightnings ability to crit champions, or to crit at all before anything else.

why dont you remove the ability to stack it with rapid fire?

why isnt the price just increased by 300 gold?

its like youre just dancing around the issue here and look for anything to nerf but whats really wrong with the item.

8 Comments

AhristocatsMar 15, 20183 votes

doesn't matter if the point of an item is to waveclear

wavelcearing in one autoattack should not be allowed no matter what's the point of the item

HópeMar 15, 20183 votes

I actually agree, It makes no sense to nerf the wave clear part and not the ''heres 300 damage for hitting someone for free'' part.

Then again they nerfed Ornns unstoppable instead of just lowering the damage so logic obviously doesnt apply sometimes to them.

TerozuMar 15, 20182 votes

What's wrong with the item, is that it's letting marksmen wave clear too well for mages to compete. It's not being 'abused' by assassins.

Besides theyre toning back all wave clear.

Critmaster GarenMar 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

What's wrong with the item, is that it's letting marksmen wave clear too well for mages to compete. It's not being 'abused' by assassins.

Besides theyre toning back all wave clear.

no its not being abused by assassins.

its being abused by marksmen as an assassination tool. up to 400 magic damage on top of an i.e. crit is the problem with stattic shiv.

if waveclearing with the item is too easy aswell, then dont allow the passive to crit at all. two birds with one stone.

Pokemonred200Mar 15, 20181 votes

Meddler did actually say the item was meant to be an AOE burst tool. Its waveclear identity was a 'lesser extent' thing, on the gameplay thoughts on march 9th when asked about it:

{quoted}

AOE damage (its champion damage in team fights is unchanged), burst (given its ability to crit especially) and a lesser amount of wave clear. And its stats. Even without the extra wave clear bonus it still offers a lot IMO.

^This is what he said when he was asked what Shiv's identity was.

I do think that Shiv charging faster with RFC was a huge mistake, though. That combo is beyond stupid. The base damage of shiv should also go down too, since Duskblade's getting nerfed to have a much lower proc damage despite being less reliable for non-stealth champs.

Critmaster GarenMar 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Meddler did actually say the item was meant to be an AOE burst tool. Its waveclear identity was a 'lesser extent' thing, on the gameplay thoughts on march 9th when asked about it:

alright.

why the fuck do marksmen get an aoe burst tool then, and one that deals almost as much damage as duskblade?

are they supposed to deal sustained damage or burst? because the fact that they can do both is part of the reason why theyre so fucking dumb at the moment.

i mean meddler can say this was inteded, but im still going to question why the hell hed give them such an item at all.

Pokemonred200Mar 16, 20181 votes

I guess the thought was it was meant to be a single burst at the start of the fight, with a bit of normal damage afterward before a second burst a bit later. It wasn't that much before its buffs, but then the buffs took it to an extreme in an attempt to let crit marksmen keep up with the lethality marksmen at the time of the buffs (Varus, Miss Fortune, and sometimes Jhin if memory serves).

The Rapid Fire charging it faster makes the problem a lot worse as well, since you don't need to kite as hard to keep the burst going, making Runaan's Hurricane and Phantom Dancer inferior choices for a lot of champions who use Shiv.

I don't see what was wrong with it not charging at the rate it did, or what damage it was before (100 base damage at all levels in Seasons 3, 4, and 5, vs 60-160 base damage on Shiv right now, which breaks even at level 10, around when most champs get shiv anyway, and scaling higher afterward).

Before the changes that brought it into the state it's in now, picking up shiv meant you were taking an AOE burst but losing sustained damage (with Runaan's Hurricane or Phantom Dancer) or range (with Rapid Fire) or raw damage (with Essence Reaver or Infinity Edge, depending on if you're a caster or a pure AA champ), or sustain (by picking Botrk or Bloodthirster). But now that Shiv charges faster with Rapid Fire and gives so much raw damage, as well as Fleet Footwork (and maybe bloodline) giving the needed sustain that also charges faster with RFC, you're not losing out on any of those things by picking the two of the items up together. Just pick the right runes and you've gotten everything that used to take four item slots in just two or three.

I'm just glad something's being toned down, but imo it needs to be more than just what they're doing, since what is being given right now with Shiv (and Rapidfire by extension) is too much at once, and it's probably going to stay that way even after the nerfs.