your AA still does base AD damage if your AD is reduced below it

Big Lincoln··31 votes·1,841 views

a champion with say 60 base AD at lvl 1 and bonuses from runes/mastery will still do 60 damage on autos even if their AD is reduced below that value by trundle/trynd.

after learning about this i think we should give trundle the AD reduction buff back so he can be properly viable again

EDIT: To clarify, this is already what happens. If your AD is reduced below your base amount, auto attacks will still do 100% of your AD (excluding armor). Just in case anyone misunderstood; at early levels, Trundle/Trynd sapping your AD, will only really hurt ability scaling.

43 Comments

Salron26 votes

I'd prefer if the stack-checking troll didn't become meta again

Big Lincoln13 votes

i have a club and a dream

Salron9 votes

Go smack the rework button at Riot HQ with that club And keep smashing it until it works

Bhagswag2 votes

Now we know why Ryze has gone through so much...

Melledoneus2 votes

Marc Merrill keeps it in his cookie jar.

That damn jar is a death trap because of how hard it is to reach into.

Ralanr1 votes

It's like that one trap in saw two as well.

And when did you become a Warden?!

Melledoneus1 votes

Never watched a full Saw movie.

And when did you become a Warden?!

Like two days ago.

Big Lincoln1 votes

should've been me tbh

Gameplay boards needs an honest hard-working juggernaut main to speak up for the oppressed bruisers

Melledoneus1 votes

...no comment.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

....Bruisers? As in the divers+juggernauts?

Aren't the juggernauts like half the reason why Diver's aren't played Top anymore? ._.

I am wondering about your qualifications.....

Big Lincoln1 votes

no?

there's like 2 good juggs in top lane right now, darius and illaoi, and only one of them's actually in-meta.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

I haven't really being paying attention but isn't Darius, Fiora, Yasuo and.....riven? Maybe Galio? The big toplaners and among the only ones played due to them being too much stronger compared to the competition?

And Darius alone is a huge reason why many aren't played x) He is so punishing if you can't dive ontop of him and kill him before he gets his stacks.

Catastrophic1 votes

HEY ! You're lincoln not MLK

QuickerBlade1 votes

stat*

His Q reduces enemy stats and increases his own stats his W increases his attack speed stat his e lowers enemy's movement speed stat his r lower's enemy's defense stats and health bar stat

Sinlaire1 votes

you forgot that his E also increases all healing and regeneration received while in his domain Soraka as well as that all stats and health reduced from the enemy go to trundle as well.

Champion Skin2 votes

Well to be fair he can actually mess up his E and if he places it poorly he might end up blocking himself or not doing much to hinder the enemy

Galiö4 votes

Isn't this whole game stat checking.. technically...?

Salron4 votes

A stat checking champion is one whose ability to win or lose a fight against another champion is dictated solely by their raw stats due to all their damage being impossible to outplay, this is especially the case of Trundle who gets a ton of stats from 3/4 of his spells while also stealing those stats from the enemy champion

Galiö2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=whu0Mfvg,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-06-17T03:12:58.473+0000)

A stat checking champion is one whose ability to win or lose a fight against another champion is dictated solely by their raw stats due to all their damage being impossible to outplay, this is especially the case of Trundle who gets a ton of stats from 3/4 of his spells while also stealing those stats from the enemy champion

Sooo... every champ?

Ralanr1 votes

Technically no. Even if Sion is very fed, you can dodge every single ability of his.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Not at all. Skill/outplay is a thing. Take a 5 item ori vs a 3 item ori. It's possible for 3 item to win because of counter play. On the other hand, a 5 item trundle will crush a 3 item trundle every time. Because there is nothing to consider other than stats. There are actually very few "stat check" champs, but they are cancer when they are meta because they are either way ahead of way behind due to their nature.

Galiö1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=whu0Mfvg,comment-id=0005000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-17T17:36:21.343+0000)

Not at all. Skill/outplay is a thing. Take a 5 item ori vs a 3 item ori. It's possible for 3 item to win because of counter play. On the other hand, a 5 item trundle will crush a 3 item trundle every time. Because there is nothing to consider other than stats. There are actually very few "stat check" champs, but they are cancer when they are meta because they are either way ahead of way behind due to their nature.

Yeah cause your base stat and kind of AP stats beat their MR stats. If they went full MR they would beat oris 'outplay' by being able to out base damage her.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

? Try again. Lol.

Galiö1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=whu0Mfvg,comment-id=000500000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-17T19:55:54.326+0000)

? Try again. Lol.

Let's say there is a strong rumble, Galio, Naut with tons of health and MR and ori hit all her spells. They'd prob walk away losing half their health and she dies to people full tank or neatly full tank.

Less extreme example we can have someone with high base smh like Draven bot with almost full armor runes and a dorans shield and he would easily beat ez or kogmaw or whoever else is a higher 'skill champ solely to Draven beating him in stats.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Dont fight in trundles w or walk into his e you cant just drop e andw willy nilly as Trundle

50000000000000001 votes

A quick rule of thumb for determining whether a fight is gonna be statchecking or not is if you can determine who's going to win with certainty before they even fight.

Gelmous4 votes

did you take armor into account ?

HateDaddy3 votes

I think we need to move away from stat checkers entirely. I'm aware this effects a few of my mains but I'm completely okay with that.

Big Lincoln8 votes

reducing your AD isn't a stat check, it's a debuff

i have said many times that I'd like many of my interests to be less reliable if it meant they could be much better, i think most champs would get more wiggle room for satisfying gameplay that way

AL0003 votes

no I dont think so... Someone already tests it... It could for ad caster only... not AA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVH3xQEiFkE

Champion Skin1 votes

no I dont think so... Someone already tests it... It could for ad caster only... not AA.

Ehh... the video shows Orianna AA and dealing the same damage with base AD (40) and reduced AD (-60)

NineTailedMystic2 votes

I think the turret Chomp is fine right now.

Big Lincoln5 votes

well im a licensed juggernaut expert

i say buff trundle

LocatedEagle2321 votes

I'm sure this was considered when Riot was designing the champion (and changing it :( to what it is now)

Although.... I agree. Upvoted.

Big Lincoln1 votes

i didnt realize it until someone on the trundle subreddit pointed it out with jungle creeps

really the AD buff only harms AD casters with bonus ad ratios and Darius. but if it's a nerf to darius the boards should definitely support it :^)

A Bad Nasus1 votes

Well I would not mind another solid immobile melee counter other than Yorick

kasfas1 votes

If someone had negative ad, would they heal enemies on attack?

Gaddafi1 votes

{quoted}

If someone had negative ad, would they heal enemies on attack?

Visions of new support subclass :D

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

I'd be fine with more base ad or something else, but I think you can't just straight up buff the debuff. Every bit of that debuff gives him AD, he gets part of what he steals. To justify it he'd have to be weakened in that aspect because if you debuff AND buff more, you're creating a big stat difference. He's had to get nerfs at points because of the power behind his Q.

As someone who played Trundle here and there back in S2 when he was an ugly disease monster and enjoyed his rework to a point (Mainly jung), I've always loved the pillar. His Q combo is fun but other than the debuff it wasn't any different to any similar reset ability. The rework's minislow was a great addition, but now its both a stat stealer and a slow so he has a lot of power budget in that move.

However his most interesting interaction is his E. Its the one longer range cc he has, it slows to setup your bite, you can wallpin or trap with it, or you can use it as a knockup. Its a long cd as a risk so the pillar has to be used smart. It was even good enough to justify him as a support in patches! Honestly if anything was buffed about Trundle that'd make him more interactive and give him a place in the meta, it'd be this ability. His Q will always be at least a little good since its a reset and can be combo'd with any amount of ad or onhits to give him damage spikes. His E though is pretty small and risky, maybe having a longer slow range or something would help?

WingsofGulgazor1 votes

I mean I would be fine with a trundle buff but why would the buff HAVE to be on giving AD reduction back. Couldn't they give him something else. Because there's probably a reason they want that debuff to not go below a champions natural ad amount and most champions that build ad will have a runes and masteries that buff the stat along with possible even a dorans or a longsword and I'm pretty sure that would still be debuffed.

SanKakU1 votes

Yeah that definitely explains why Trundle has a hard time against non-AD early builds. Also helps explain why Tryndamere doesn't feel great against mages unless you gasp buy Wit's End.

Rockm Sockm1 votes

I support it all the way.

Keep in mind the best board hate melee unless they have unlimited mobility.

Fiora can exist but call trundle a stationary checker and throw him in the dumpster is there MO.

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