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jinx w deals almost as much damage as a fully charged varus q

Critmaster Garen··4 votes·1,351 views

varus q on max charge: 15/65/115/165/215 (+1.6 ad scaling) Cost: 70/75/80/85/90 mana Cooldown: 16/14/12/10/8 seconds

jinx w: 30/75/120/165/210 (+1.4 ad scaling) Cost: 45/50/55/60/65 mana Cooldown: 10/9/8/7/6 seconds Range: 1500

it also has a 70% slow attached and grants true sight. why is this still a thing? with that kind of utility and range, its clearly intended as a chasing/kiting tool. yet it deals almost as much damage as varus core ability, has less of a cooldown, similar range and is even cheaper.

with regards to the rest of her kit, can someone please explain why the damage of this thing hasnt been neutered? she can poke the hell out of someone with that ability alone. not even the need for rockets.

and before someone comes and says, that varus can hit multiple targets, the projectile speed of the ability is much slower, it has a self cc attached, a charge time and the damage is severely reduced per target hit. so for the extra ability to deal severely reduced damage through minions, he sacrifices a lot.

27 Comments

DrCabes4 votes

Not sure if sarcastic post or not but in case it isn't, Varus's q goes through multiple enemies and triggers his w passive. Jinx's W hits one target and she becomes immobile for the time she casts it.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Not sure if sarcastic post or not but in case it isn't, Varus's q goes through multiple enemies and triggers his w passive. Jinx's W hits one target and has she becomes immobile for the time she casts it.

she becomes immobile for s split second, which is compensated by the extremely high projectile speed.

varus has to fully charge his q to get similar damage out of it as her, and is slowed in the time hes doing so. and only hits the first target for full damage. i give you the w passive, but i dont see much sense in the jinx w poking for that much damage with that kind of cc attached.

my point is, most of jinx power budget is supposed to be in her q. and in the damage of her long range aoe rockets or her minigun. the w is an ability that is meant to kite and chase. hence the vision and the 70% slow. it shouldnt deal much damage at long range. thats what her rockets are for AFTER she has nailed someone down with w and e.

she can poke far too well with the ability alone.

It also doesn't pass through enemies, and shows EXACTLY the path it will take for a half second before cast. Varus can change his aim all the way up until he releases, and can hit you through a minion wave if he needs to.

if the arrow goes through a minion wave first, it deals 33% damage.

Lauricella31 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wdq9auMI,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-05-31T04:21:04.268+0000)

she becomes immobile for s split second, which is compensated by the extremely high projectile speed.

varus has to fully charge his q to get similar damage out of it as her, and is slowed in the time hes doing so. and only hits the first target for full damage. i give you the w passive, but i dont see much sense in the ability poking for that much damage with that kind of cc attached.

my point is, most of jinx power budget is supposed to be in her q. and in the damage of her long range aoe rockets or her minigun. the w is an ability that is meant to kite and chase. hence the vision and the 70% slow. it shouldnt deal much damage at long range. thats what her rockets are for.

she can poke far too well with the ability.

if the arrow goes through a minion wave first, it deals 33% damage.

if jinx's w goes through a minion wave first it does 0% damage

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

if jinx's w goes through a minion wave first it does 0% damage

the same is true for nidalees spears. no problem. its on a shorter cooldown and costs less mana. so she can try more often.

my point is, a huge chunk of varus power budget is in his q. and jinx w inst even the most threatening part of her kit. yet, it deals almost the same damage with similar drawbacks attached.

shouldnt the idea be that she fishes for w hits, to nail someone down with the slow, then go in with rockets to poke at her victim and actually deal damage? so why does the ability in itself already deal so much damage and is enough to severly chunk someone down with a couple of hits?

Lauricella31 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wdq9auMI,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-31T04:32:59.246+0000)

no problem. its on a shorter cooldown and costs less mana. so she can try more often.

my point is, a huge chunk of varus power budget is in his q. and jinx w inst even the most threatening part of her kit. yet, it deals almost the same damage with similar drawbacks attached.

shouldnt the idea be that she fishes for w hits, to nail someone down with the slow, then go in with rockets to poke at her victim and actually deal damage? so why does the ability in itself already deal so much damage and is enough to severly chunk someone down with a couple of hits?

if jinx spams her w to poke she can't use q rockets without going oom

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

if jinx spams her w to poke she can't use q rockets without going oom

the ability only costs 45 to 65 mana. yes, she can easily. ive played her. ive played against her.

it allows her to poke someone down nidalee style by repeatedly throwing w's until she hits 1 or 2, then go in with her support. she still has enough mana for rockets.

Centuros1 votes

It also doesn't pass through enemies, and shows EXACTLY the path it will take for a half second before cast. Varus can change his aim all the way up until he releases, and can hit you through a minion wave if he needs to.

khorney1 votes

That's true however. It cost more mana and does less damage cause of the piecing reduction

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Can Jinx's W deal 15% (+6% per 100 AP) max HP damage?

No? Okay then.

Can Jinx's Q fire with zero casting delay and be unavoidable at point blank?

No? Okay then.

Is Varus an underpowered ADC?

Yes? Okay then.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Can Jinx's W deal 15% (+6% per 100 AP) max HP damage?

No? Okay then.

Can Jinx's Q fire with zero casting delay and be unavoidable at point blank?

No? Okay then.

Is Varus an underpowered ADC?

Yes? Okay then.

no, but jinx w can massively slow and grant true sight instead. it also doesnt need to be charged up first to get full range and damage. the delay on the ability is neglectable considering the much higher missile speed.

and the % health damage is basically varus entire w. so you cant count it into his q.

varus is far from underpowered. jinx is just a good example of how riot has completely overloaded the new ranged adc compared to the old ones.

IcyPepper2 votes

Can't Varus's Q go through multiple targets instead of one single target?

But OP, I will say this. Varus does deserve some love, but comparing two different champions doesn't always work. Not every Q or W or E or R is going to be equally powerful.

You'll be better off spending your energy advocating Varus buffs over comparing two adc's.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Can't Varus's Q go through multiple targets instead of one single target?

But OP, I will say this. Varus does deserve some love, but comparing two different champions doesn't always work. Not every Q or W or E or R is going to be equally powerful.

You'll be better off spending your energy advocating Varus buffs over comparing two adc's.

in this case though it does deserve to compare them.

jinx is simply overloaded through the roof. her w is a good example on how they put too much into her kit compared to similar champions.

if this ability was merely to support her playstile with cc and vision, it would not be as much of a problem. but it also has enough damage, a short enough cooldown and cheap mana cost, that it often allows her to hang back from a large distance and try to poke someone down iwthout even much need to auto attack.

IcyPepper2 votes

So it's kind of like if Caitlyn's net had a low cooldown and had decent AD scaling? And more range, of course.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

So it's kind of like if Caitlyn's net had a low cooldown and had decent AD scaling? And more range, of course.

since caits net flips her backwards it wouldnt need more range. but yea. imagine it had the same ad scaling, and base damage. that would get really old really fast.

like jinx w the net is just to support her long range auto attack focused playstile. it doesnt deal much damage on its own, but provides utility. the same should be true for jinx w.

IcyPepper1 votes

Alright, I'll ask you a question and I want you to be fair and honest about it.

If Jinx's W's scaling was switched to AP scaling and possibly had less base damage, would it be fair to take off the delay it has and make it more instant (but still dodge-able)?

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Alright, I'll ask you a question and I want you to be fair and honest about it.

If Jinx's W's scaling was switched to AP scaling and possibly had less base damage, would it be fair to take off the delay it has and make it more instant (but still dodge-able)?

no, of course not. it still has 1500 range and incredibly fast missile speed. youre again ignoring how fast the projectile actually moves after the short delay, which makes it just as hard to dodge as any other skillshot.

it arrives at the same time as most other skillshots with a slower speed would, even with the delay.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wdq9auMI,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-05-31T04:50:06.718+0000)

no, but jinx w can massively slow and grant true sight instead. it also doesnt need to be charged up first to get full range and damage. the delay on the ability is neglectable considering the much higher missile speed.

The delay is long enough that people can react. Hell, I've seen Shaco use his W to block Jinx's W.

It's not overloading to have one kit do something vaguely similar with a faster missile/higher damage/more utility attached. Just because Darius can refresh his ultimate and Garen can't, it doesn't mean that Darius is overloaded or that Garen is not. Just as an example, of course, I don't believe either one of them is overloaded.

and the % health damage is basically varus entire w. so you cant count it into his q.

In the same way that you can't count Brand's Q for the stun, or his W's bonus damage, because that's technically his passive, right?

Varus can't proc his W with his W; he uses the rest of his kit to activate those stacks. Yes, I'm focusing on a detail that you probably don't consider important.

varus is far from underpowered. jinx is just a good example of how riot has completely overloaded the new ranged adc compared to the old ones.

Varus is not strictly weak, but he is underpowered. He's still playable, he can still make great plays, and there are comps where he excels.

Jinx has a steroid, CC and range (she also has uncontrollable mobility). Varus has a(n uncontrollable) steroid, CC and range. The problem between Jinx and Varus, however, is the synergy of their own kits and the scale of their power.

Varus has an AoE slow, while Jinx has a single-target slow. Jinx has 3 snares that are easy to proc, while Varus has a snare that might maybe tag someone else if they stand in the neighborhood for half past forever. Varus has range and an AS steroid, but Jinx's are much stronger (and also separate effects; can't have both at the same time). Jinx has a reveal and % missing HP damage, Varus has Grievous Wounds and % max HP damage.

Looking strictly from how much the two kits have, the one thing Jinx has more than Varus is her passive's MS steroid. That, and then the scale of power.

So why is it that having a single kit element more is being called an overload, when the real problem is that Varus' numbers and kit flow are just weaker than Jinx's?

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Uhh, the fact that Varus's Q can pass through enemies and has quite a large hitbox despite the damage to be lowered for each enemies hit, whilst Jinx's W only hits the first minion and casts a projectile that can be easily avoided by side-stepping?

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Uhh, the fact that Varus's Q can pass through enemies and has quite a large hitbox despite the damage to be lowered for each enemies hit, whilst Jinx's W only hits the first minion and casts a projectile that can be easily avoided by side-stepping?

they have literally the same hitbox. theyre both very narrow skillshots. and varus still doesnt have true sight and a 70% slow attached to his q.

he also has a bunch of drawbacks attached to the q for the fact that it deals reduced damage per enemy hit. in particular the charge time, which is longer than the delay on jinx w, the slower projectile speed, longer cooldown, higher mana cost.

khorney1 votes

That's actually a good point.just goes to show you how weak varus is

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

That's actually a good point.just goes to show you how weak varus is

varus is nowhere near weak. hes just weak compared to all the newer completely overloaded ranged ad. he has a clear nieche as a utility adc with high max % health damage and focus on long range poke.

is there one thing that jinx doesnt have, that other ad carries have? poke, waveclear, long range, mobility, short range duelling power, cc, even burst on her ult. you name it. she has something of everything in her kit. thats the problem.

khorney1 votes

Yah but there isn't anything spectacular about varus. I use him a lot and know that he is easily outclassed . with that when I build him instead of ga. I opt for hourglass it's not trolling him mf and kog all share somthing that they have incredible ap scaling and hourglass is the one thing that they can utilize with 0 downsides mf escpelliay because I get tri force on her cause of the q proc cause she uses all the stats . but varus has limits slow worthless passive his range could be longer . grant it ap varus is like the strongest champ in the game which is why I run hourglass

Marthian1 votes

Varus could use some love, but her W does have more counterplay: A giant line on the ground and she has a charge up to cast it..

Chief Mayonnaise1 votes

It's not that Jinx is overpowered, it's that Varus is underpowered. Also there are plenty of people who are listing the drawbacks of Jinx's Zap and the strengths that Varus's Q has and to me it looks like you are just ignoring them. Jinx W hits only 1 target. That it means at maximum it will deal 210+1.4 AD. Varus Q can pierce enemies, which will significantly increase the total damage it does.

For the numbers I'm about to give you, Jinx and Varus both have 100 AD.

If Jinx lands her very telegraphed and easy to dodge skillshot, it deals 350 damage, slows, and gives true sight unless they are invisible.

If Varus fully charges his skillshot (which does take time to charge but the enemy doesn't know where he will fire it due to instant firing) it will deal 375 damage if it hits one target. If it hits a second target, the second target will receive about 318 damage.

Just from hitting two targets with the varus skillshot, the skillshot will deal a total of 693 damage, almost twice as much as Jinx's w. A third hit with the q will deal 262 damage, bringing the total to 955.

The strength of Varus' Q is that as soon as it deals damage to 2 targets, it deals far more damage that it does when it only hits 1 target. Not to mention any Blight stacks the champions might have on them. This is also useful in lane when it can still deal damage even if it hits a minion. If jinx's w hits a minion first, it will deal 0 damage to any champions behind the minion.

Also the numbers you listed for Jinx's Zap mana cost are wrong. The real numbers are 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 / 90 mana.

Bodkins Odds1 votes

To say nothing of the fact that the hit box on Varus's Q is much bigger than it's visuals. I hate dodging his Q only to take damage from it anyway and then getting fussed at by my support for not being able to dodge skillshots.

Reikken1 votes

jinx Zap is much easier to dodge. you don't even have to have sight on Jinx to dodge it but if Varus fires Q from FoW, you're getting hit by it if he has good aim

Vistha Kai1 votes

OP, you are a year late.

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