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Let's Discuss Darius

IsIsGankedParis··12 votes·2,298 views

Darius as you all know is a Bruiser who is typically played in the top lane, but sees the mid lane and jungle occasionally and even support. He is one of the few champions in game who deals magic, true, and physical(all in their kit, see Irelia, Corki, etc.).

Now Darius has been nerfed and is currently not ok but I would like to discuss Darius with everybody, he is seen as an easy mode champion vs. melee and a hard to play vs ranged champions.

After reading through Morello's posts and all other discussions about Darius I have to admit that his kit is wrong and needs to be reworked.

He is a punisher and punishes for mistakes, doesn't that mean the enemy has to play perfectly to not lose versus Darius? His enemy has to be either slightly better to not lose hard or much better to be on even grounds(unless he is fighting a ranged then he has to be better than the ranged champion).

What should be done to make Darius not a low skill champ, but higher skill(hard to get used to the kit in learning how to use his shit but once you learn you can be great with him, Leblanc is a decent example).

He's currently easy to learn and dominate with but hard to Master with all of his micro managing and when to use certain spells for the most damage(not saying outer Q, this is part of micro managing).

What should be done to Darius to make him more difficult to use, not an easy mode activated champion who facerolls on melees but has 0 chance vs a ranged champion?

If you had to ask Darius players, the only thing they would want for Darius to retain is his Ultimate, true damage and wanting It to fully reset in exchange for him to have his power returned but actually be harder to achieve, perhaps going above his old power.

What are your thoughts and ideas? I would love to discuss Darius to figure out his future and how to use him more effectively.

@Morello @Meddler @Scruffy Join on this conversation to.

34 Comments

Maximum Zilean4 votes

I'm personally fine with him having that niche of "Anti melee bruiser", But I do agree he does need some slight changes, while keeping his identity in check. Probably just a power shift of his armor pen into a more interesting passive that rewards for long sustained fights.

Like for each bleed stack on the target, he gains 5% armor pen towards them. Instead of just passively at all times. Also gives a decent window for others to fight back in short bursts since his damage will only rack up if your fighting him for to long.

I'm pretty bad when it comes to actual game balance ideas, but this is just my opinion. Keep his identity, and his anti melee niche role and i'll be fine. If they dare remove his grab or true damage dunk, i'm going to be pretty upset. If they shift power around while still keeping those 2 abilities, i'm fine.

Done252 votes

I'm personally fine with him having that niche of "Anti melee bruiser", But I do agree he does need some slight changes, while keeping his identity in check. Probably just a power shift of his armor pen into a more interesting passive that rewards for long sustained fights.

Like for each bleed stack on the target, he gains 5% armor pen towards them. Instead of just passively at all times. Also gives a decent window for others to fight back in short bursts since his damage will only rack up if your fighting him for to long.

I'm pretty bad when it comes to actual game balance ideas, but this is just my opinion. Keep his identity, and his anti melee niche role and i'll be fine. If they dare remove his grab or true damage dunk, i'm going to be pretty upset. If they shift power around while still keeping those 2 abilities, i'm fine.

Does he even need the armor pen? I'd be fine with a stronger Bleed effect in exchange for removing the penetration.

Narasimha2 votes

Its to help solidly his place as not only an anti melee, but an anti-bruiser. Theres a reason almost every guide to fighting Darius says AVOID prolonged fights with him. Giving him a stronger bleed doesn't really cut it.

Done251 votes

Its to help solidly his place as not only an anti melee, but an anti-bruiser. Theres a reason almost every guide to fighting Darius says AVOID prolonged fights with him. Giving him a stronger bleed doesn't really cut it.

Longer fight = more damage from bleed? His bleed exists to prevent people from just going pure armor and shutting him down, such as Omen, Sunfire Cape, Zhonya, or Thornmail.

He doesn't really need armor penetration against bruisers/tanks, since they tend to kill slowly and the longer the fight goes on the more bleed he spreads.

Squeaky Dreemurr4 votes

Darius main here. I want the 100-0 on full damage Darius retained. Immensely satisfying when you finally pull one of those pesky and elusive carries and splatter their brains all over the grass.

360D3GR3SS2 votes

I enjoy him where he is at currently. His armor pen does not affect when he is strongest (6-9) but helps him in the late game, where he is arguably lacking.

I Main Swain1 votes

I have a few especially annoying points about why I don't like darius. 1, after the very beginning of the game he doesn't really have mana problems. as long as you don't spam everything every time its off cd he can go for a really long time without going oom. 2, building defensively against him just doesn't happen. you build armor, he does a ton of magic and true damage. you build health, he does a ton of physical and magic damage. you build mr, he deals a ton of physical and true damage. and on top of that, in case you DO build armor he passively cuts through a rather large chunk of that. then on top of all that his w cd is reduced for each stack of hemorrhage on the target so much that if they have 5 stacks you have a very small cooldown (and lets not forget that it procs on turrets, chunking the crap out of them). and since he already has such incredible damage, all you gotta do is build 2 of rav, black cleaver, last whisper, and maw and build the last 4 items straight tank. my gosh don't even get me started on the levels of armor pen when he builds lw and black cleaver.

5 Stacks GG1 votes

I have a few especially annoying points about why I don't like darius. 1, after the very beginning of the game he doesn't really have mana problems. as long as you don't spam everything every time its off cd he can go for a really long time without going oom. 2, building defensively against him just doesn't happen. you build armor, he does a ton of magic and true damage. you build health, he does a ton of physical and magic damage. you build mr, he deals a ton of physical and true damage. and on top of that, in case you DO build armor he passively cuts through a rather large chunk of that. then on top of all that his w cd is reduced for each stack of hemorrhage on the target so much that if they have 5 stacks you have a very small cooldown (and lets not forget that it procs on turrets, chunking the crap out of them). and since he already has such incredible damage, all you gotta do is build 2 of rav, black cleaver, last whisper, and maw and build the last 4 items straight tank. my gosh don't even get me started on the levels of armor pen when he builds lw and black cleaver.

randiuns counter him HARD

A Slime Appears1 votes

Darius doesn't even have enough mana to pentadunk until level 9, and that assumes his team does all the work for him and he doesn't have to use any skills.

How is that not a mana problem?

Done251 votes

Darius doesn't even have enough mana to pentadunk until level 9, and that assumes his team does all the work for him and he doesn't have to use any skills.

How is that not a mana problem?

What other champion can spend 500+ mana in a row without buying a mana item and not feel a pinch?

Fed by Snu Snu1 votes

At level 9-ish?Everyone.

Not to mention that manaless champions are a thing now and they become stronger and stronger with each release. (and then nerfed.)

Additionally, he already has a weakness in that he doesn't have any mobility, at all. If you take his ability to bully effectively due to mana issues, what does Darius have in his kit anymore?

Le Beau Princess1 votes

bumping for support.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Despite his raw awesome power, he has no gapcloser & mobility. Imo he could be the easiest to gank pre-6.

Remlap12231 votes

Honestly the problem with Darius is that he's essentially a melee Teemo, except instead of blinding enemies that overextend, he pulls them in and proceeds to wail on them even more. This ends up causing Darius to either be hard countered or to hard counter his laner. Same goes for Teemo. And this transitions into a Feast or Famine playstyle. The biggest issue with Darius is his passive. It just deals ridiculous damage over time, so that even if you miss a dunk chances are you're dead as a doornail if he takes ignite (and if he's fed he won't need it).

I'm not a big Darius player so I don't know how to rework him without hurting his identity as the Dunkmaster.

PatMcGroyn1 votes

I like his kit as it is - he's pretty much the king of the bruisers. I can't think of really any bruiser matchups that he can't win. What people do wrong with Darius is they don't focus enough on beefing up his mobility. I take 3 points in utility, and Flash + Ghost for summoners; Boots of Swiftness when not facing heavy hard CC comps also helps a lot. For items, I like to build an early Phage and/ or Cutlass, then get tanky before finishing up his damage items.

His damage is great, and when you get 1-2 tank items, he can teamfight extremely well. So you just need to focus on beefing up his mobility.

As far as a bruiser kit goes, I pretty much like the way all his spells work- he doesn't have anything too flashy, but it all fits well thematically with his kit, and rewards him for smart target selection & cooldown management.

Narcos Cosinus1 votes

So first of all sorry for my english, I am not native speaker.

Darius has kit which can bully his lane opponent, so it´s not hard to win lane if you don´t get unpleasant matchup(counter). His lane bully is exchanged for vunerabily for ganks. So this is in my opinion OK. But when I come to the mid-game point he lacks for one: engage ability. When you get against you teamcomp which has long-range skillshots you can´t get to them and pull them to you. Yes, you get small MS when you hit someone, but that´s not enough and if you want to stay really relevant in teamfights u must buy for example botrk or trinity, which is not worth buying on Darius. He doesn´t need a major rework, just something what will help him to be usefull in teamfights, but keep his identify of frontline warrior.

Agidyne1 votes

As someone who played Darius since his release, I think I can safely say, Darius just needs his W and E reworked.

First of all, the passive is great. Leave it there.

His Hemo, the passive is hard to itemize against but at least, it doesn't interact with Armor pen. And Trust me, if you made it deal Physical damage, there would be a lot of QQ about it. Remember Dravens old passive? Yeah, it would end up like that.

His Decimate, his Q is fine as it is. It deals good damage throughout the game and makes Darius a force to be reckon with. I think he should be stronger than your average meele. I think he should be truthful to his lore and be on par with Garen, Renekton and other in terms of lane bullying.

His C.Strike, his W is hardly noticable. There's no reward for using it other than to farm creeps. Triforce Darius makes this ability hit extremely hard, but its still hardly worth using most of the time.

I think Darius should drop a Noxian Banner that would reduce damage dealt to Darius by a value like 10/15/20/25/30% and increase both his HP/5 or M/5, it is however destructible and doing so will remove those buffs immediately. It is always visable, even when inside a Bush.

My second Idea for this spell would literally make Darius have a Riposte kind of thing. If Darius blocks a meele basic attack, Darius hits his target and deals some damage to it and grants sight over them. If Darius blocks a ranged basic attack or a Single Target ranged spell, Darius throws a Chain at that Ranged champion, slows them and makes the unable to cast mobility spells for that Duration. It deals no damage tho.

His Apprehend, Just make the range scale with levels. That's all.

Finally, his Noxian Guillotine There's two ways of dealing with this. Either make the Ultimate ALWAYS fully reset on kill, like on release. Or don't allow it to reset at all

I loved release Darius, I played him literally every game, but I think it is time to part ways with the resetability of it. Let's be honest, Darius sucks in teamfighting anyway and he won't be the one dealing the most damage in a fight. He might get some kills with the ult but you are better off giving them to your ADC or Mage anyway.

I think Noxian Guillotine should deal a stupid ammount of Single Target damage, literally, a stupid number of true damage down someones throat, even more than it already does on Live then go on a medium cooldown but give Darius a Huge Movement Speed Boost against enemy champions(and I do mean Huge, Jinx Passive kinda shit) CC Immunity for 2 seconds and give half of his targets Total AD as bonus Attack Damage. The buff overall would last aslong as some enemy champion was on Darius sight.

My other idea would just make the first Noxian Guillotine kill Fear enemy champions in an AoE. The ult would differ in nothing from Live, including the Reset. It would make sense after all, I wonder what Nami thinks when she sees her Maokai teammate being cut down by an Axe. It would simply fear enemy champions for 1 second on an AoE radius. Multiple kills would not extend the duration or Reset the Fear tho, to make sure Darius can only get his fear off once per fight.

FebruAhri1 votes

^that ult would be stupid op. it already does up to 1k(!) true damage, even more and they might aswell rename it to "Free Kill"

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

Remove the AS slow on his W first of all, it's a stupid amount of invisible power and is most of the reason melees cant fight him

The idea I've been trying to push is making his W steal MS instead ala Malphite, giving him a pseudo escape/gap closer (W a frontline and dive the backline with the MS)

I like the earlier idea of shifting his Arpen to his passive

As for his ult I'd do something like keeping the current 20 second refresh window, but reduce the CD for each kill/assist he gets during the refresh

^that ult would be stupid op. it already does up to 1k(!) true damage, even more and they might aswell rename it to "Free Kill"

If Darius has enough AD to Guillotine for 1k then you probably shouldn't have died to him 14 times in lane

FebruAhri1 votes

^that ult would be stupid op. it already does up to 1k(!) true damage, even more and they might aswell rename it to "Free Kill"

If Darius has enough AD to Guillotine for 1k then you probably shouldn't have died to him 14 times in lane

actually I'm mid most of my games. It's not rare for the games where they have a Darius for him to pull me in at max range do his combo and R for 1k damage.

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

^that ult would be stupid op. it already does up to 1k(!) true damage, even more and they might aswell rename it to "Free Kill"

If Darius has enough AD to Guillotine for 1k then you probably shouldn't have died to him 14 times in lane

actually I'm mid most of my games. It's not rare for the games where they have a Darius for him to pull me in at max range do his combo and R for 1k damage.

Guillotine has a base of 680 at rank 3 and 1.5 bonus AD scaling

For it to deal 1000 true damage he needs at least 210 bonus AD

BT + Hydra + Black Cleaver is 205 AD, and if he has that many AD items he's going to die instantly in a teamfight

Kingsgrave1 votes

He can't be good as long as he has an Attack Speed slow.

That being said, he is one of the most rage inducing characters to have to face when you are even the slightest behind. Its just so fucking frustrating to have to face that asshole. That being said I love playing him.

IsIsGankedParis1 votes

What do you all think should stay in his kit right now? Through reading your posts you agree he is an anti-bruiser and should stay as such, avoid prolonged fights with him, and he has terrible mobility.

How could his problems be addressed without him losing his identity while being overall more healthy for the game?

How can he be reworked to be less "easy mode" and more "harder to use/strategic" to use champ?

I love this discussion guys, let's keep it up.

iamthegoatofwar1 votes

hmmm can we start with his passive? I like the idea and all, but I feel as though the bleed can be a bit too much at times. Level 1 bleed if he hits you 2 times 24 magic damage a over 5 seconds, and 5 is 60 per second for 5 seconds. combine with ignite and that's really gonna suck for anyone caught.

Edit: not taking into account bonus ad bleed.

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

hmmm can we start with his passive? I like the idea and all, but I feel as though the bleed can be a bit too much at times. Level 1 bleed if he hits you 2 times 24 magic damage a over 5 seconds, and 5 is 60 per second for 5 seconds. combine with ignite and that's really gonna suck for anyone caught.

Edit: not taking into account bonus ad bleed.

With the mastery that reduces champ damage affecting each tick it isnt as bad

However a change I was thinking of was limiting him to a stack per X seconds, scaling down with CDR or something

Then he can get buffs elsewhere and be a lot less bursty

Akeito1 votes

Isn't Darius suppose to be the Garen of Noxus ? His purpose is similar.

  • Win lanes.
  • Snowballs.
  • Being a threat and pressure.

The real point is, does you know how to play top ? And does your team know how to utilize it ? Trick2g is kinda troll here, but the guy show a great example of how to play top or being a pressure that even diamond have troubles dealing with.

Basically you just push top and win 1v1, heck, if you're fed enough you can even 1v2 as Darius. A top job is creating pressure that not necessarily effect the entire map, but their team, they will have to send people to deal with you, meanwhile, your team could simply take all the t1, t2 and dragon, assuming they're equal in their lane. But if the enemy have wave clear master like Ziggs, Xerath...

Sire Hippington1 votes

I think Darius' overall kit is fine, it just needs some tweaks. He got alot suptile skill requierment with his micromanagment, and i think that should get enchanced a bit more.

  • Passive: It's main purpose is to make Darius really dangerous in long fights, but since u reach max-stacks rather fast, it is already very punishing if u do only one misstep against him(getting pulled means instantly 3-4stacks vs a good darius)

  • increase the number of stacks to 8, reduce the damage per stack a bit and reduce the duration by 1 sec this should increase his dps in long trades even a bit more, but it would be easier to avoid fullstacks vs him, so u can counterplay even with other melees by forceing short trades.

  • Q: The most awsome skill in his kit imo, the bonus damage on the outer-aoe feels so good, and it seperates the good from the bad Darius.

  • apply two stacks of passive on outer-aoe(and maybe increase the ad-ratio to 0.8 so it feels even more rewarding) simply make good plays more impactfull by giving more power to the outer aoe, and thx to the new passive it shouldn't be to strong.

  • W: Alot hidden power is buried within this skill, the AA reset grants high burst and faster passive stacks, and the AS-slow makes fighting back pretty hard.

  • Give it a decaying MS-buff on use(think of Draven W), reduce the damage alot and maybe reduce the AS-slow It should be more a utillity than a burst skill, his damage should come from Q+passive, so lower damage and more utillity here. The ms-buff would grant a better chance to deal with ranged, but using W befor beeing infight denys the AA-reset. Lower as-debuff would help melees to stand a chance*(maybe lower the cd and slow on W and increase the slow based on pssive stacks, so u can more easily force short trades vs Darius, but get punished even more in prolonged fights)*

  • E: Not much to say, it's prettymuch fine as it is. However, it could use some Qualty of Life adjustments. Currently it seems like the game checks if an enemy is in range quite some time befor the animation is finished and the enemy actually gets pulles, thus enemies running away from u often get pulled from what looks more than maxrange, cause they were in range th time it was cast. A faster animation and earlier 'pulling-point', so the visiuals reflect the actuall mechanic better.

  • Ult: The ult is Darius signature skill, multikills and stylish executions are his trademark.

  • Reduce the bonus damage per stack to 12.5%, which is the same damage with maxstacks with the 8 passive stacks, and add a 1-physical damage aoe effeckt to it He should have to work a bit harder for max-damage on it, but should also be a bit more rewarded for resets in teamfights(the 1-physical damage applys his passive, so executing one in a teamfight hellps u to spread the passive and thus deal more damage with th next ult) Maybe the aoe damage or the number off stacks applyed could increase based on pasive-stacks.

TL/DR: Enchance Darius power in extended fights and help him a bit vs ranged, help enemys to come out ahead vs darius in short trades.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

I agree that Darius has to become more difficult. He's just too easy for the power he holds, yea even after the nerfs. I don't consider him Op at the moment, but the former setence was just about how easy he is to play.

He's boring and dull. I usually am no fan of reworks, but I don't think that he can be fixed be number tweakings.

Riot has to take his lore, gather what people liked about him and try to design a new kit around that.

Plus50g1 votes

Been playing Darius a lot lately and here's my 2 cents. Darius is probably one of the best top laners out there, for sure. I rarely loose lane with him, most of the time, by mid game no one can solo me. He basically imposable to 1v1, especially if he gets a good lead of any sorts. On top of that he (Should) counter most commen top laners like, Riven, Fiora, Garen, Nasus, Irelia, etc, so he's a easily counter picks many popular top laners. The only lane I've ever lost really hard was vs. Jayce.

If Riot does change the Dunk Master (Which I could see happening) they better not screw up his Ult, and give him a harder play style other then hit Q and R at the right time, but I'm still pretty happy with him right now so.... I don't know.

Jacknife1 votes

Darius, while annoying to fight (and I main him, so I'm trying to be fair) is fine damage wise. A champion that can bully as hard as he does in the early game should not have that strong a late game, or he'd be broken all over again. Honestly he just needs a few tweaks in terms of mobility. I'd argue making the MS buff on his passive stack along with the damage, but have it half the original value after the first stack and only benefit from one target (since he can only build major stacks on one target at a time anyway). Other than that, decrease the cooldown of his Apprehend at rank 1 and maybe increase the length again. I find it insufferable that he is one of the few champions in the game with an ability to bring units closer to him, but the ones he needs to catch the most are always out of reach. Also I saw a post about getting rid of the AS slow, which is a horrible idea. The whole point of Darius is anti-melee, to make it the worst mistake ever that you got pulled into him, and ditching the AS slow would be like having Jax's Counter Strike not dodge AA's, it would kill his effectiveness.

ThatAutofillSupp1 votes

okay so, since you know about darius can you tell me how to counter him? :/ whenever I'm against him i feel like its a immensely hard lane since you can't poke or be pulled, you can't farm or be pulled, you can't try to gank him or he'll kill you and make it 1 for 1… any tips? (not complaining just asking how i would play this lane as pantheon or shen)

IsIsGankedParis1 votes

How to play against Darius is simple, it all starts with runes and masteries.

Flat armor yellows and flat MR blues are the MAIN things you want to make this lane easier so you don't die pre 6 and let him faceroll.

If you are playing pantheon, this lane should be a piece of cake, make sure you always have your passive up if he tries to pull and autos you, immediately press W to get the shield up, he won't be able to hurt you so you save yourself a lot of damage and can destroy him. Get an early giants belt as that counters him or if youre ahead get a brutalizer and bam, he's your slave, results may vary on jungle pressure.

As shen I can't say much besides farm, shen is awful right now, he's great at baiting Darius and after shen gets his sunfire and Randuins Darius can't ever 1v1 him again(unless hes 20-0).

ThatAutofillSupp1 votes

really? :/ every time I'm against a darius i get pulled whenever i try to q and just bursted in general

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