Runic echo is way better than cinderhulk even on tanks

The Deckowner··4 votes·707 views

I had played and faced many tank junglers, and I realized runic echo is overall much better than cinderhulk even.on tank junglers who arent intended to go ap.

champions like amumu, sejuani, maokai, zac, who are normally considered tank and should build cinderhulk, performs much better when rushing runic echo early game, and then build other tank items, and at late game when their ap ratio falls off simply switch back to cinderhulk for more hp scaling.

why is that? well that is because in early game cinderhulk is nearly USELESS. it doesnt provide nearly as much tankyness relative.to the offensive power from other jg enchantments. we all know hp has very little value without encough resistance to back it up. in early game skirmersh cinderhulk loses to every single other jg items. I think the nerf to runic echo is not enough to keep the tanks from building it, cinderhulk being extremely underwhelming is the root problem.

10 Comments

LilxPaprika4 votes

In 6.9 its getting buffed aoe dmg does same as sunfire at level 18. it'll be very strong.

tbh even in its current form its strong. the problem is that its best built late game not early but we're forced to build it first item.

I've offered some solutions here:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/5NGpEqI5-jungle-mains-please-read-giving-jungle-items-flexible-build-paths http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JFHNP0ka-jungle-items-chestplate-staff-sword-axe

The Deckowner1 votes

a late game item for a jungler who is meant to impact the early and mid(mostly early) game simply isnt effective.

LilxPaprika2 votes

tanks should be allowed to scale as much into late game imo. After all utility is always relevant at any stage. its not like they fall off.

The Deckowner1 votes

im not saying they fall off, but the role as the jungler is meant to provide map pressure and participate in skirmershes, having actual decent combat stats from other jg enchantments seems to be much stronger than cinderhulk.

(not talking about tanks as a class, but jg as a role in general.)

Zerolera2 votes

Are we looking at the same AP ratios? Most of the tanks you mentioned have absolutely disgusting AP ratios which is partly why runic echo performs so well on them. Also you don't need tankyness as much on already tanky junglers who have the keystone to just become tankier anyways.

The Deckowner1 votes

what im saying is the ratios in late game become less meaningful when runic echo is the only ap item they build. so i would rather witch to cinderhulk cuz it gives better late game hp scaling.

Zerolera1 votes

I don't think it's meaningless late game - it let's you have just enough damage and move speed to be a threat to that pesky adc whose the only one who can kill you.

The Deckowner1 votes

lets do some math runic echo gives 60 ap lets use sejuani as an example since every ability of hers has some ap ratio q 40% ap=24 magic dmg w initial cast 3%/100ap=1.8% target max hp magic dmg dmg damage/second: 60% ap over 4s = 36 magic dmg over 4 second e 50% ap=30 magic dmg ult 80%ap=48 magic dmg

in total that is 102+1.8% target max hp+36 dmg over 4 seconds at lv18.

consider the target has 0 mr and 1800hp, eats sejuani's full combo, the value of runic echo is only 170 magic dmg. add the runic echo proc that is 170+60+60*0.1=236 magic dmg.

meanwhile the base dmg on sejuani's q alone at lv18 is already 260.

it definitely makes more sense to get cinderhulk which provides 15% bonus hp in late game where hp started to stack up(cinderhulk also does decent aoe dmg and sejuani's w scales off max hp) instead of 236 magic dmg and 10% movement speed.

sorry for poor formatting im typing on my phone.

Hethalean1 votes

Also Runic Echoes has 10% movement speed, which is invaluable on junglers.

Bisaknosp1 votes

cinderhulk will be stronger after tomorrows patch they buffed the numbers a bit

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