Reduced doesn't mean half, it can be 60% or something as well.
Don't bother with the current nerfs and just do that instead, no point in being so goddamn cautious when she's the most prevalent LCS champion and still good in solo queue.
This'll make her less faceroll since the only way you can possibly fuck up on her right now is if you mouseover the wrong target when pressing R or if you throw your Q the wrong way.
KaisadiIIa2 votesLissandra "needed buffs" a year ago because she was deemed nearly useless by 99% of the community from Bronze to Diamond. Now she's OP and needs nerves. That's how this game works.
thinking man1 votesLissandra "needed buffs" a year ago because she was deemed nearly useless by 99% of the community from Bronze to Diamond. Now she's OP and needs nerves. That's how this game works.
Who would've thought buffs to her would've made her OP?
Damn this community and their delusions.
SouL1ess2 votesWhich buffs to her made her become top tier pick from useless? Just curious. Is the Q CD change the most effective buff?
doublelift fg1 votescd of her Q from 4 sec to 3 sec % slow of her ulti to 75% lvl 3
Reynard the ƒox1 votesThat doesn't seem like a bad idea. I'm no professional game designer, though.
Sightless661 votesNot a great idea. It's designed as a pretty short range skillshot that can only be used from a distance if fired through something, and then without the CC. Having it lose both CC and damage if used from range makes the entire "shoot-through" mechanic pointless. No need to have a mechanic that weak on a kit.
thinking man1 votesNot a great idea. It's designed as a pretty short range skillshot that can only be used from a distance if fired through something, and then without the CC. Having it lose both CC and damage if used from range makes the entire "shoot-through" mechanic pointless. No need to have a mechanic that weak on a kit.
The slow can persist, but both should be weaker because they're already really powerful.
Sightless661 votesNot sure that's good either. it's only a 28% slow at max. Making that weaker if it went through minions would make it do very, very little. It wouldn't really be any better than having no slow on the peircing like she has now.
They're taking 5-25 damage off on the PBE. That's a much better solution I think.
thinking man1 votesNot sure that's good either. it's only a 28% slow at max. Making that weaker if it went through minions would make it do very, very little. It wouldn't really be any better than having no slow on the peircing like she has now.
They're taking 5-25 damage off on the PBE. That's a much better solution I think.
That's not really dealing with the problem that she's too easy to play while being powerful.
It'll add up over a fight, yeah, but this change could lead to better changes for her since there's actually a way for her to mess up.
Sightless661 votesWith your change, the way to mess up is "use the skill in the only way that increases its range". It's not only a large hit to her power, it requires the skill to be used in an overly restrictive manner. Hit someone directly with a short-ranged skillshot, or do almost nothing to them. That's a pretty mediocre mechanic for a skill to have. The current dynamic works fine. Short ranged skill that becomes medium-ranged but loses the slow when shot through something. Turning into a short ranged skill that doesn't really do anything when shot through something is taking away pretty much the only interesting part of the skill.
She just has a bit too much power, particularly in her early poke. The current change addresses that problem. Lower the damage on her primary poke, and you force her to either take more aggressive actions or risk opponents just ignoring poke.
thinking man1 votesWith your change, the way to mess up is "use the skill in the only way that increases its range". It's not only a large hit to her power, it requires the skill to be used in an overly restrictive manner. Hit someone directly with a short-ranged skillshot, or do almost nothing to them. That's a pretty mediocre mechanic for a skill to have. The current dynamic works fine. Short ranged skill that becomes medium-ranged but loses the slow when shot through something. Turning into a short ranged skill that doesn't really do anything when shot through something is taking away pretty much the only interesting part of the skill.
She just has a bit too much power, particularly in her early poke. The current change addresses that problem. Lower the damage on her primary poke, and you force her to either take more aggressive actions or risk opponents just ignoring poke.
You can still hit them with the split, it just isn't as faceroll.
This would make it possible to buff her in other ways, and this would easily fix the problem.
If they can aggressively gut Kass for being the #3 champ, then they can nerf Liss less aggressively for being the #1 champ.
Sightless661 votesYou can still hit them with the split, it just isn't as faceroll.
You can still hit them with the split, but it just doesn't do much of anything. The piercing on it does so little that it's not really worth having on the skill, and the skill has no other interesting factors besides the piercing.
This would make it possible to buff her in other ways, and this would easily fix the problem.
Three things. First, any nerf makes it possible to buff a champion in other ways. That's kind of inherent in a serious nerf. You make a champion weak, so you have to add power back in a different place (and your nerf would be harsh enough that power would have to be added back in). This isn't a convincing argument unless you're actually proposing the more interesting changes/buffs that could accompany it.
Second, the changes on the PBE fix the problem just fine. Too much damage, too much easy poke early. Reduce both. That's a fine way to handle it.
Third, I still have problems with the design of your change. It takes a short ranged skillshot that has the only unique trait being that it can pierce for extra range, and then it makes the piercing extremely weak. Why have a mechanic that weak on a skill without other unique or interesting aspects? It's not interesting design. Your change leaves her Q in a place where using the only unique aspect is designed to be a mistake not worth doing. That's not a good change.
If we were going to go down this direction with Lissandra, just straight out deleting the piercing and reworking the skill entirely would be a much better choice. Or, we could reduce the damage for hitting someone directly, and allow the full damage on the piercing, which would allow the piercing to actually be a useful mechanic and not just an unnecessary add-on to an otherwise boring skill while also giving her a weakness to champions engaging on and trading with her.
If they can aggressively gut Kass for being the #3 champ, then they can nerf Liss less aggressively for being the #1 champ.
It wasn't a good idea to gut Kass, and this kind of Olafing is something that needs to happen less, not more. Why would hearing about how badly nerfs can destroy a champion make me thing nerfing Lissandra hard is a good thing? I'm annoyed by the Kass nerfs too, but I want it to stop happening, not just to happen to champions that I dislike.