Reminder that Jinx has a 32% pickrate and a 54.5% winrate

thinking man·Apr 15, 2015·89 votes·8,758 views

title

also she's never really bad in LCS

and she's had that winrate for months

237 Comments

FalconPawwwwnchApr 15, 201542 votes

Lol all these ADC mains defending jinx

If an assassin or bruiser had stats as absurd as Jinx does in all elos they'd be neutered within 2 hours

And Jinx has had these stats since her release afaik

r11naApr 16, 201521 votes

Exactly. Hecarim and Sejuani suddenly becomes flavour of the month with a 53% and 56% win rate respectively and they get nerfed within days, no chance given to see if the win rate goes down if people are given time to figure out how to counter them.

Jinx 55% winrate and 30% pick rate for almost a year is totes fine though, in fact lets buff her even more by improving her passive. Better nerf Tristana and Veigar instead! Riot Logic.

I understand Riot can't please everyone with their balance choices but if someone can explain the logic behind a few chosen champions allowed to be OP forever yet others are nerfed within hours I'd be very grateful.

Crystal CastlesApr 16, 20153 votes

To be fair, Jinx's win rate and pick rate have NOT been 55% and 30% respectively for a "almost a year." Win rate has been hovering around 54% since November/December, which was around the time of the preseason changes. As for pick rates, it has been (somewhat) steadily increasing from 20% to 30% from the same time period.

I do think she's overtuned, but please don't make up facts.

Source: http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/jinx

NilokApr 16, 20158 votes

So in other words, after Tristana had her attack speed growth slashed almost in half and her Rapid Fire duration nerfed, it both caused Jinx to have an easier time and caused many Tristana players jumped ship to the next best hyper carry in the game, Jinx.

Lets make it a bit more clear then, she has had one of the highest win rates of all ADC consistently, never dropping below 50%, for almost a year where a large portion of the player base play her and she has the 3rd highest gold income in the game.

We have had other Champions nerfed for less far quicker. The problem is the frustration with the apparent favoritism the Riot seems to have towards Jinx.

The LexerApr 15, 201517 votes

Yet when you sort by KDA Bard's is just .01 lower. I think Jinx is in a good spot, the problem is that so many other adc's are so far behind her that when they lose lane they can't come back. (then again Heimer has the number 1 win rate this past week and nobody complains about him)

junglerboy16Apr 16, 20157 votes

win rate by itself is meaningless, because guess what, I could have played Bard twice and won both games. That would give me a 100% win rate! but wait, what about: who I was playing against, who I was playing with, whether I got carried, whether I carried, whether the enemy threw, whether I would have a 100% win rate after a dozen more matches, etc.

Heimer has had one of the top 15 win rates in the whole game since his rework over a year ago. He was a little OP on release, but he is balanced now. Wait, he is balanced but his win rate hasn't changed? That is because he has a low pick rate, indicating that he is a niche pick that is used to counter specific champions, which is why when he is picked, he wins the majority of the time.

Jinx on the other hand is OP. I don't really think anything about her is broken or anything, but the numbers don't lie. She shows up in over 1/3rd of all matches around the world, and still has an above average win rate. Additionally, she has a consistently increasing win rate as you look at higher skill brackets, meaning that while even the noobs can play her well, the greats crush with her.

XyrneApr 16, 20158 votes

Being the best of limited options doesn't make her OP. There's nothing overbearing or unmanageable about Jinx. She's just a reliable and versatile pick that works in pretty much any comp.

SinlaireApr 16, 20151 votes

a damn sight better than quinn and with more reliability than cait with a trap that can snare 3 over 1, an ult that can hit several over 1, and a passive that promotes multikills over single target focus.

jinx is a much better team fighter/killer than most adcs because her kit has more widespread utility than single man bursts. in my opinion this leads to more windfalls due to multikills than the others get if only they can play her properly. she is exactly as you say essentially.

ShrikesnestApr 17, 20153 votes

Caitlyn has a short-cooldown escape, which Jinx lacks. Caitlyn's base stats are also quite a bit nicer than Jinx's. For one thing, her long range doesn't cost mana.

I'm so tired of people just listing the shit in a champ's kit in an incredulous voice, as though that means jack shit for game balance.

metaworldpeace10Apr 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Caitlyn has a short-cooldown escape, which Jinx lacks. Caitlyn's base stats are also quite a bit nicer than Jinx's. For one thing, her long range doesn't cost mana.

I'm so tired of people just listing the shit in a champ's kit in an incredulous voice, as though that means jack shit for game balance.

Very true in some points. Caitlyn does have an escape on a relatively short cooldown, she does have a range advantage, but despite all of this, her safety is only slightly better than Jinx. Jinx has a strong slow and hard CC, which keeps her a relatively safe laner. The difference between the two lies in the scaling. Caitlyn scales really well into mid game, but falls off late game due to her lack of AD or AS steroids. Meanwhile, Jinx has just as strong of a mid-game as Caitlyn, but also scales super well into the late game, making her into a hyper carry. Jinx scales too well for as strong of an early/mid game that she has. I would prefer for Riot to smooth over her scaling, rather like they did with Tristana and fix the fucking hitbox on her R.. That hitbox is absurdly large for the amount of damage it does.

SinlaireApr 17, 20152 votes

i agree. the point i was trying to make about Jinx wasn't that she was better, but that she was safer due to her harder CC and the greater flexibility of it.

Cait can use the 90 cal. net to get to saftey and slow an enemy, but cant cant use it to catch someone without firing it behind her and losing her slow. Jinx doesnt get a free jump, but she can essentially create a wall of CC anywhere she pleases for either chasing or escaping that Cait doesnt have. her passive is also great for chasing in team fights or even getting out of poor position i the event an enemy dies. (i've used it for both for great success.)

even if Cait does scale harder, she also gets punished harder becuase she just isn't as reliable. which is why Jinx is strong all across the board and not just as a skilled players head hunter.

shadecrapperApr 17, 20152 votes

Few ADC's have her type of ability to pop off in a fight, her passive is pretty good.

Ch1efBeefQueefApr 15, 201510 votes

Keep in mind that 75% of the players who contribute to all win rates are in bronze and silver. So ask yourself, is jinx just unbeatable, or is she something that bronzies commonly lose to?

thinking manApr 15, 201545 votes

[{quoted}](name=IFreaky FogI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9HmOELvZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-15T19:34:12.541+0000)

Keep in mind that 75% of the players who contribute to all win rates are in bronze and silver. So ask yourself, is jinx just unbeatable, or is she something that bronzies commonly lose to?

http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

Goes up if you set it to diamond.

Ch1efBeefQueefApr 15, 20157 votes

I looked at your match history, you lost one game because a jinx outplayed you. and now you have come to whine on the forums about it. you just had a jinx on your team a few games ago and you lost that too. Maybe you just need to get better. Arrogance will hold you back in solo que.

PryotraApr 15, 201530 votes

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Themoreyouknow.jpg

qetzelApr 15, 20155 votes

WRONG! Tu quoque! Not ad hominem.

LeeDarkApr 15, 201513 votes

No, a "tu quoque" fallacy would be if he said, "If you think Jinx is so poorly balanced and bad for the game, then why do you main her? If you were being honest, you'd play someone more balanced." Ad hominem is more accurate in this instance, since he is implying that the basis of the OP's argument is his anger at being beaten by a Jinx.

qetzelApr 15, 20153 votes

Well. Fuck... It is always embarrassing when you try to correct someone but fail dismally. Tu quoque would be, for example, You main X, an OP champion, don't call Jinx OP.

I still don't think that it is ad hominem. The argument was: (I think there is an implicit step) *People who are beaten by a champion tend to assume that champion is OP You were beaten by Jinx Therefore you only think Jinx is OP.

While the original argument was fairly rude I think it was just rudeness. IFreaky FogI wasn't attempting to suggest the argument was wrong by attacking Kaellrus' character. Therefore, it is not ad hominem.

LeeDarkApr 16, 20154 votes

Yes, "Tu quoque" could ALSO be used if he mained another OP champion, but the most literal interpretation of the "fallacy of hypocrisy" would be if he mained Jinx.

The implicit step you list is where the ad hominem takes place. The argument is based on the mental state of the person making the argument, which is the same as their character, really, and saying that the argument is wrong because of that. Even if the argument is true, and the OP did decide that Jinx was OP simply because he was angry about losing, that does not mean his argument is unsound. He can be as angry as he wants and still be right. Your "implicit step" is what makes the argument to the man rather than to the facts. Literally "ad hominem."

Solidair3Apr 15, 20153 votes

High pick rate (in all elos) with a high WIN rateb(in all elos), means there is a problem.

qetzelApr 15, 20158 votes

~~means~~ *suggests

SalidfingersApr 15, 201510 votes

as long as she doesn't hit 55% + averaged then i think she is fine.

If you just nerf her then another ADC will take her place and the cycle will never end.

Truly PridefulApr 16, 201510 votes

Wish people would understand this. If they nerf her someone else will shoot up into the mid 50's and people will cry about them. Maybe instead of crying for nerfs, they should be wanting other things to get buffed up.

Old Man TeetoApr 16, 201510 votes

Peel and protect supports are in currently. Assassin's are out currently. Tank's are in currently.

Guess which champion excels in this environment.

thinking manApr 16, 201512 votes

{quoted}

Peel and protect supports are in currently. Assassin's are out currently. Tank's are in currently.

Guess which champion excels in this environment.

Guess who had this winrate even when assassins were in.

RhaxApr 16, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Peel and protect supports are in currently. Assassin's are out currently. Tank's are in currently.

Guess which champion excels in this environment.

Pretty much. Jinx is the best ADC in the game against tanks, second to Vayne (who can't excel due to an epic garbage early and mid game). All she has to do is not feed and auto-wins late game as a secondary win condition due to her passive. She also has the highest combination of CC+damage compared to other ADCs. You'd have to remove features from her kit to hurt her win-rate, which honestly isn't really necessary, as she isn't overpowered.

What needs to happen is the other ADCs need buffs, specifically Ashe, MF, Varus, and Twitch. Once other ADCs are on equal footing, suddenly Jinx loses lane consistently, and win-rates balance out accordingly.

AbyssphereApr 15, 20159 votes

She is overtuned. I think the fact that people like her, Graves, Leona and Blitz having such extraordinary pick rates with high win rates goes to show that bot lane has been in a terrible way for quite a while. A 32% pick rate says "I am the go-to champ for players forced into my role without actually practicing it" and the concept of a player who barely ever ADCs being so likely to win is ridiculous. Jinx (alongside her contemporaries, though Blitz just got nerfed) really needs to be taken down a peg because the #1 picks among the non-ADC mains should not be doing better than the niche picks (who are far more likely to be played by people who know the role).

Really people like Jinx should have stats like Thresh. Thresh gets played by every second person forced into support because "lulz I can make big plays" and his win rate is terrible as a result. Anyone with a pick rate bordering on 30% should have a win rate equally as bad.

AbodyHUN666Apr 16, 20152 votes

Leona should recieve some good vs bad player nerfs too. Seriously, I gave up on thresh because I realised I'm not good enough, and I won games on Leona with half the effort.

zions eyebrowsApr 15, 20155 votes

i just want to see the 110% on her rockets only apply to her target so target selection actually means something

metaworldpeace10Apr 15, 20155 votes

Ya Jinx is ridiculously OP. She almost has the safety of a Caitlyn during the laning phase, but scales into a hyper carry, whereas Caitlyn falls off hard after the 30 minute mark. She needs a weakness. Giving an ADC CC/mobility/scaling and safety is NOT good design.

A Miss FortuneApr 15, 20155 votes

Actually Caitlyn is a popular late game champion since she has the highest range in the game and can quite easily become a hyper carry. Not long ago me and my support 2v5ed the entire enemy team ending with me getting a pentakill.

As for Jinx, she's only overpowered if you can't buy boots or just can't right click out of almost every ability she has?

LeeDarkApr 15, 20159 votes

Not really. Caitlyn is only a carry inasmuch as ALL Marksmen are carries. Her auto-attack steroid is rather poor, to be honest, making it quite a stretch to call her a hyper carry when compared to the likes of Jinx, Vayne, or Kog. With free reign to attack, any ADC will pentakill. Hyper carries will do it that much faster, though.

You should be able to recognize your own mistake in the second part, since you spent the first paragraph lauding the power of the auto-attack.

junglerboy16Apr 16, 20153 votes

She isn't a hyper carry, but she is definitely very strong late game (especially when compared to other "non-hypercarries") because of her safety and how hard she scales with AD and AS. The only issue she has is getting past her weak mid game where her damage falls off for a bit before safety becomes the greatest concern.

MEMEME670Apr 16, 20151 votes

She uh, doesn't scale hard with AD or AS, actually. She doesn't scale well with any stat, when you compare to other ADCs.

ADCs use steriods to scale, because they have multiplicative scaling (assuming you have both the other two stats that scale with them.)

Caitlyn's only steriod is her passive, and it's a weak one at that (generally being just straight lower damage than corki passive, which doesn't scale with crit.)

junglerboy16Apr 16, 20152 votes

She actually does. AD means harder hitting headshots, peacemakers, and Ace-in-the-holes, AS means more headshots. Headshot also scales with crit since it doesn't count directly as a crit it get multiplied by IE's crit multiplier. Her ult's cooldown also scales down very low and can deal around 1200-1400 damage from extreme range, making her excellent at finishing kills or breaking a siege.

Being strong late game also isn't all about how much damage you do, but more importantly how easily you can deal it. Caitlyn has huge safety and fight control because of her range, traps, and 90 cal. Net. For a counterexample, we have Draven. He has the highest DPS of any ADC in the game when used even halfway competently, he has 2 extremely strong steroids (a damage boost to every AA that scales with crit, and a separable resetting AS+MS boost) yet generally speaking, he falls off. But he deals so much more damage! Well damage doesn't mean crap if you have no safety and die in the first 5 seconds of the fight.

Does Cait scale as hard as Kog or Jinx? No, I never said she did, but she is still one of the better late game ADCs because of her safety and decent steroids.

HeWolfApr 15, 20155 votes

At least she has a bad laning phase as a trade-off of her hypercarry condition.

Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx

Clarity edit: Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx

Meep ManApr 15, 20157 votes

{quoted}

At least she has a bad laning phase as a trade-off of her hypercarry condition.

Her laning phase is actually pretty decent with the long range on her rockets and decent fallback potential against ganks with her grenades, not to mention a good Jinx can get a really easy kill whenever her ultimate is up. She actually has one of the overall better laning phases compared to most due to her long range.

Daedalus871Apr 16, 20156 votes

Poe's Law

1MazaApr 16, 20154 votes

Needs more clarity.

Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx Jinx

HeWolfApr 16, 20152 votes

I knew that there were someone in these forums that could explain it better than me. Thanks.

Zair UmbrasApr 15, 20154 votes

Jinx is doing well because the META is shifting from League of Mobility and Dive to League of Tanks again. Unlike J4 and Vi, Amumu and Sej can't dive the backline. Their gap closers are stopped by anyone who stands in front, who's usually a tank. Jinx is a known hyper carry and with there being less and less diving ability, she's able to show off her power by being relatively safe. League of Tanks also means lots more peel for the ADC. We all remember Kog's destruction capabilities when his team peels. Jinx may not have his range with the same AS steroid or tank shredding ability, she does have high AoE damage with her AA's, plus her passive and her two forms of CC, a slow and a root, she's able to do really well right now. Does that mean she needs a nerf? Not entirely. If that was the case, Kog and Varus would've been nerfed a thousand times over and Vayne's W wouldn't be true damage anymore.

thinking manApr 15, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9HmOELvZ,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2015-04-15T23:15:51.232+0000)

Jinx is doing well because the META is shifting from League of Mobility and Dive to League of Tanks again. Unlike J4 and Vi, Amumu and Sej can't dive the backline. Their gap closers are stopped by anyone who stands in front, who's usually a tank. Jinx is a known hyper carry and with there being less and less diving ability, she's able to show off her power by being relatively safe. League of Tanks also means lots more peel for the ADC. We all remember Kog's destruction capabilities when his team peels. Jinx may not have his range with the same AS steroid or tank shredding ability, she does have high AoE damage with her AA's, plus her passive and her two forms of CC, a slow and a root, she's able to do really well right now. Does that mean she needs a nerf? Not entirely. If that was the case, Kog and Varus would've been nerfed a thousand times over and Vayne's W wouldn't be true damage anymore.

She has had this winrate for months. Her winrate rose 1% since the time of Vi/Jarvan being tanky assassins, but her winrate has been ridiculous for just about all of season 5.

Zair UmbrasApr 16, 20153 votes

Her Winrate has stayed the same since about January, but her pick rate has gone up about 10%. We can't really look at Win Rate for accuracy when it comes to if a champion is OP or not. Pick rate usually says a lot though. When pick rate changes dramatically while Win Rate stays consistent, that means either there's LESS players playing her and simply just having mains use her, or in this case, it means the META is shifting to her favor. She's been considered good since release and has had a very consistent win rate since then, never going below about 51% To change from 52% at release and only go to about 51% minimum while maxing at 54% shows incredible consistency. Considering nothing has really change in or against her favor other than the META shifting, it's simply just her time to shine to right now.

Honestly, if win rate and pick rate really mattered though, we should be screaming to have Sivir nerfed. She's one of the top win rates, sitting only .1% lower than Jinx and having gone from a 5% pick rate to about 13ish%. She's had just less of a change in pick rate without any buffs or nerfs really done to her in that time.

DarksideEricApr 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She has had this winrate for months. Her winrate rose 1% since the time of Vi/Jarvan being tanky assassins, but her winrate has been ridiculous for just about all of season 5.

What was her Win Rate prior to Season 5? How has she been buffed prior to Season 5?

thinking manApr 16, 20152 votes