You can tell something's wrong with Kalista when

thinking man·Feb 23, 2015·111 votes·5,993 views

Kassadin is actually a sympathy champion for her kit being so broken.

A large number of Kalista complaints include Kassadin, and they're comparing her mobility as being insanely stronger than his. It's crazy how she's so obnoxious that she's hated more than one of League's historically most difficult to balance champions.

Riot's really fucked up if they actually made mobility more hated than a low CD flash on an assassin.

Just editing in to say that a champion being universally hated more than Kassadin is probably hotfix worthy.

73 Comments

The EcdysiastFeb 23, 201520 votes

Lucian's dashing too much? Let's increase the CD so he doesn't. Kassadin still OP? Let's lower the range. Oh, and we're coming out with a new champion. She dashes as far as Lucian every single auto attack. The distance should be based on MS, you say? But then Ashe would counter her, and we don't want Ashe to be viable again. No no, it's based on boot tier. That way when they buy berserker's on their second back they can dash as much as they want.

kunkudunkFeb 23, 20153 votes

This is the worst part. Some people actually think it scales from ms and im like no it is boot tier so you can't stop it.

ShockwhiteFeb 23, 201517 votes

Yeah gut Kalista.

KhristophorosFeb 23, 201512 votes

JUST CC HER LOL

ScurvyNaveFeb 23, 201538 votes

{quoted}

JUST CC HER LOL

Just dodge the hook. Just avoid the Lee sin Q Just wait out the Fizz E that dodges everything on this goddam planet and is absurdly spam able

-Honestly anything can be dodged or CC but cool downs and mobility issues do exist

For instance when the fuck can a Mordekaiser or a Vladimir CC a Kalista? How can any ADC out-kite her?

The league of mobility is real and will be as long as the new champions keep being stupidly mobile

examples: RekSai Kalista Yasuo etc.

thinking manFeb 23, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Just dodge the hook. Just avoid the Lee sin Q Just wait out the Fizz E that dodges everything on this goddam planet and is absurdly spam able

-Honestly anything can be dodged or CC but cool downs and mobility issues do exist

For instance when the fuck can a or a CC a Kalista? How can any ADC out-kite her?

The league of mobility is real and will be as long as the new champions keep being stupidly mobile

examples: etc.

I'd say that Kalista's the only recent champion that has managed to violate the rule for a long time. Yasuo's stats have been nerfed a million times over, and Rek'Sai's mobility isn't that good, it's just that Rek'Sai's damage is so extreme that her relatively low mobility seems all the more oppressive when she does catch you.

ScurvyNaveFeb 23, 20159 votes

{quoted}

I'd say that Kalista's the only recent champion that has managed to violate the rule for a long time. Yasuo's stats have been nerfed a million times over, and Rek'Sai's mobility isn't that good, it's just that Rek'Sai's damage is so extreme that her relatively low mobility seems all the more oppressive when she does catch you.

I'd have to agree with you on most points but there's no denying that recent champions are more mobile and way stronger than older ones. Not only are they more mobile but half of them are resourceless and the other have kits more overloaded than riot servers during a new patch!

thinking manFeb 23, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I'd have to agree with you on most points but there's no denying that recent champions are more mobile and way stronger than older ones. Not only are they more mobile but half of them are resourceless and the other have kits more overloaded than riot servers during a new patch!

That's partially because old champions had things that were extremely punishing and binary, or just straight anti-immobile, like Jarvan's ult or Ashe's Q.

It's not a problem that's going to be easy to fix.

ScurvyNaveFeb 23, 201520 votes

{quoted}

That's partially because old champions had things that were extremely punishing and binary, or just straight anti-immobile, like Jarvan's ult or Ashe's Q.

It's not a problem that's going to be easy to fix.

Maybe Rito could just focus on reworking old champs instead of giving us new, shiny and broken toys which further complicate the issue?

30562438_DELFeb 23, 20152 votes

they kind of are. but not in the way you are suggesting.

kDrakariFeb 23, 20155 votes

Except everybody complains when they do that too...

VentusDragoonFeb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That's partially because old champions had things that were extremely punishing and binary, or just straight anti-immobile, like Jarvan's ult or Ashe's Q.

It's not a problem that's going to be easy to fix.

Speaking of Jarvan's ult, it's nice to know that every popular ADC nowadays sans maybe one can easily dash/blink/hop out of his ult instantly.

The EcdysiastFeb 23, 20154 votes

Taric Fast as the speed of rocks.

ScurvyNaveFeb 23, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Fast as the speed of rocks.

Now thats just Outrageous Taric

The EcdysiastFeb 23, 20156 votes

Wait, no. Malphite is faster than him. And so is Skarner, though both not by much, So fast as the speed of a man trying to carry a literal ton of diamonds on his person at all times.

OyddAWqJ5rFeb 24, 20152 votes

Gems*

Joe DreddFeb 23, 20151 votes

The only champion made not a really long time ago that's in the top 15 win rates is jinx. the next is vi that came out in 12/2012 everyone else is ~2011

The EcdysiastFeb 23, 20151 votes

Yas was nerfed to hell and is still a viable pick. Rek'sai has the chance to be as mobile as Kassadin and TF combined, since she both has no costs and a global teleport, which can be easily assured if everyone's a little too aggressive to allow the enemies to destroy her tunnels.

And what's with the burrow: Upside: Higher movement speed than unburrowed. =good thing Downside: (Idk man, she can still basic , just gets unburrowed and can reburrow right after, and it's not like that's really a downside) = nonexistent Other upside (because this is supposed to be the bad part): Higher vision range, and anyone who can tell which circle is a minion or knows the movement of the scuttler isn't hindered at all. = good thing. There is no downside to that burrow.

JunkοFeb 23, 20151 votes

Downside to burrow? You can't see people who are standing still, or who you are sensing with tremor sense. You can have a single person bait you into a trap by being the only person moving, and then when Rek'sai gets there turns out she jumped into the entire enemy team.

N30NP4NDAFeb 23, 20151 votes

Yeah if the Rek'Sai is stupid and dont q EVER.

JunkοFeb 23, 20151 votes

It's so easy to sidestep or for the Rek'sai to miss that you should be ashamed of getting hit by it outside of point blank range.

MakersFFeb 23, 20151 votes

If the enemy team sidesteps, then rek'sai will see them moving and not go into the brush maybe?

JunkοFeb 23, 20151 votes

You are gonna be shotting for the person that is baiting you, not the enemies that you have no idea are even there

The EcdysiastFeb 25, 20151 votes

That's the same thing as a regular bait.

OyddAWqJ5rFeb 24, 20152 votes

...it's just that Rek'Sai's damage is so extreme...

Was*

thinking manFeb 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hZMi5gmW,comment-id=0000000100000002,timestamp=2015-02-24T00:49:11.645+0000)

Was*

She'll still fuck you up if you get too close without being incredibly tanky.

It's just not as ridiculous.

OyddAWqJ5rFeb 24, 20151 votes

Eh... I just don't see it. I played her both jungle and top from prenerf to postnerf and postnerf does negative damage lol. Q damage literally halved from on release, several other abilities also 3/4th'd.

thinking manFeb 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hZMi5gmW,comment-id=000000010000000200000000,timestamp=2015-02-24T03:41:15.769+0000)

Eh... I just don't see it. I played her both jungle and top from prenerf to postnerf and postnerf does negative damage lol. Q damage literally halved from on release, several other abilities also 3/4th'd.

You max E second, right?

OyddAWqJ5rFeb 24, 20151 votes

...? Doesn't change what I said

HandheldBrandonFeb 23, 20151 votes

Go ahead and dodge that Taric stun as Kalista.

No i mean it go ahead and hop away and dodge the taric stun you can do it pal :)

Perhaps even Drop that Nunu Iceball and watch her cry as shes slowed and he attack animation is completely destroyed. Get a frozen heart and shes as good as dead. Attack speed slows are the way to get her they are both undodgeable and completely and utterly destroy her effective of her auto attack.

ScurvyNaveFeb 23, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Go ahead and dodge that Taric stun as Kalista.

No i mean it go ahead and hop away and dodge the taric stun you can do it pal :)

Perhaps even Drop that Nunu Iceball and watch her cry as shes slowed and he attack animation is completely destroyed. Get a frozen heart and shes as good as dead. Attack speed slows are the way to get her they are both undodgeable and completely and utterly destroy her effective of her auto attack.

While these points are true and the advice about attack speed reduction is helpful but no one in bot lane builds it except for a Braum or Leona. Also a good kalista can hop half the way back to her turret before a Taric stun or Nunu slow land.

The issue isn't the cc'ing of her (which is admittedly tricky) but more so the fact that she can out-move/ out kite any one of her match ups which should not be possible for a balanced champion. Plus you know its overpowered when the LCS players pick it up in such short time and start spamming/ banning it all day long.

Just saying in my opinion she is overpowered, not massively, but she sure isn't helping out with the mobility creep of League.

HandheldBrandonFeb 23, 20153 votes

Yea no thats an over exaggeration.

First if she's against a Taric she won't be melting anything near or around him since he provides a passive armor boost and Kalista's dont build damage early she loses pretty much every trade. Also CC'ing isn't trick its about understand how her passive works and once you do that she becomes easy enough to deal with. The real trick is to have her chase you not the other way around.

PassionlipFeb 23, 20157 votes

Too bad her Oathsworn passive does % magic damage and Taric is not exactly the best champ to avoid poke :/ (seriously, what his with the % damage in pretty much every kit these days? °_)

The EcdysiastFeb 23, 201514 votes

Problem being: While Taric and Nunu both have some of the only targeted CC a support has to stop her, neither is viable against Thresh or Leona or Janna. And while you can change the speed of her basic attacks slightly, she still dashes the same distance.

HandheldBrandonFeb 23, 20153 votes

Slightly?

It breaks her auto attack.

Nunu E plus frozen heart breaks the animation. It literally breaks the animation its so bad that she will be jumping every second and a half.

CaeziumFeb 23, 20151 votes

Nunu Q is his consume. (the true dmg on minions)

HandheldBrandonFeb 23, 20151 votes

Thanks for catching that :D

What Is SmiteFeb 23, 20151 votes

I think that Malphite E would be a better way to break Kalista's animation, add on a frozen heart and it's hell for her but you have to hit the E first which requires you to get close which means that she wiill kite you. On the off-chance you do manage to pull it off, then she is as good as a sitting duck for 3 seconds then she gets a 1.2 second window to escape (if you have 40% cdr) after the debuff expires

suicide cerealFeb 23, 20151 votes

I mean, I main support and I personally hate facing say... Lulu or Nami more then Janna , Leona or Thresh because they're less common and imo more difficult to deal with, I play mostly Lulu Taric and Sona and it's great, Lulu has way more utility (point and click stun/speed boost, slow, reveal and dot/shield, and a Nasus-esque ult with a slowing field and knockup, as well as more buildpaths) plus Thresh can't turn people into bunnies, can he? Didn't think so. My point is that the meta doesn't decide who a good champion is.

OyddAWqJ5rFeb 24, 20151 votes

Who needs bunnies when you can turn people into dead :)

Oh... I guess literally huh since they become souls. Then you can take their soul too! :D

DomainSpecificFeb 23, 20153 votes

ITT: People who can't catch sarcasm (Khristophoros is famous for defending Kassadin since 2013, when he was brutally OP).

Still, right now I agree that Kass is rather balanced and way less oppressive than Kalista.

GlamazonFeb 23, 201512 votes

So obviously broken on release. Being difficult to use isn't an argument for letting champs be op

KeevalroyFeb 23, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Kabutops,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hZMi5gmW,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-02-23T04:18:09.347+0000)

So obviously broken on release. Being difficult to use isn't an argument for letting champs be op

She's not even difficult, you can effectively remove any skill factor involved by building hurricane and shift clicking the ground. Wow, such a complicated champion, please don't nerf her, she's so hard...

AnomanderFeb 23, 20154 votes

Have slows reduce the distance of her dash.... Drastically

StraleyFeb 23, 20153 votes

She has got to be the most unfun champ to play against. Playing against a kalista has got to be the most frustrating thing in league for me.

JunkοFeb 23, 20152 votes

I have not seen A SINGLE person compare her dashes to Kassadin until Kassadins ultimate nerfs on PBE. And now all these complains are ABOUT KASSADIN and also include how NIDALEE has more mobility than him for no cost and no target.

thinking manFeb 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hZMi5gmW,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-02-23T09:46:29.753+0000)

I have not seen A SINGLE person compare her dashes to Kassadin until Kassadins ultimate nerfs on PBE. And now all these complains are ABOUT KASSADIN and also include how NIDALEE has more mobility than him for no cost and no target.

I haven't really seen it since Kass had his nerf planned on the PBE either but yeah, he's suddenly a champion to garner sympathy towards the hate cause for LeBlanc/Nid/Kalista.

Ariel SotoFeb 23, 20152 votes

Wait till they rework Fiora guys. She is gonna s**t on her. I know it

Rinky DinkyFeb 24, 20152 votes

Problem is a good Kalista will show you just how broken of a champion she is.

She outclasses almost 70% of the adc pool.

She is a utility adc, with godlike amounts of damage, and godlike mobility, along with self, and 100 succesful allied peel.

She out expunges twitch, out initiates Varus and Ashe, and out "Hops" Lucian.

How is that not broken?

Kalista is a champion I would imagine would have come out around the time champions like Yorick and Lee Sin did.

She lacks counterplay, is very very very unfun to play against, has an overloaded kit, is a generalist who out preforms specialists... she is the Lee Sin of adc's.

And she came out only a few months ago.

What was riot thinking....

I would say she even defeats the whole "Just cc her argument". A good Kalista will very much just hop away after the cc ends, while lifestealing stupid high amounts of hp, while knocking you up with her oathsworne. And god forbid she has someone else on her team who can peel for her, or assists her in doing damage.

You cant kill her in teamfights unless she fucks up. You cant do anything. Nothing at all. Even if you do manage to finally catch her, she has teamates. Some of these teamates are also carries more than likely.

Like honestly, I could understand CertainlyT's other creations. I could see the innovation. Kalista was just made to piss people off.

A spear throwing, undead warrior from the shadow isles. Okay, thats great, love it. Her Passive would actually be fine, if she wasnt also a tankbuster, if she didnt have 2 cc's one of which is a knock up, if she didnt have a get out of jail free card for her support, if she didnt have free wards that can traverse the entire river, if she didnt have an ability that is literally a better version out twitch's expunge, that allows her to outsmight a nunu or a cho'gath.

Like, it really looks like I am just complaining, but can you really deny how much of a monstrosity this champion is?

She needs a rework, or deletion, and she JUST CAME OUT.

Monsta MooFeb 24, 20151 votes

I hardly ever see any Kalista players and when the few that I do come across are pretty rubbish. One person who seems to be strong against her is Vayne, once you hit six you can go invis and then use bork ftw. idk man I can see why you all think she is op but, I have hardly ever seen a good Kalista