Twicht nerfs on the PBE

saltran·Feb 8, 2018·36 votes·3,580 views

Finally, not stealth alarm range but it's something.

"Contaminate (E) base damage lowered from 20/35/50/65/80 to 20/25/30/35/40"

113 Comments

AmazoXFeb 8, 201818 votes

One of the Rioters on the balance team probably was raped by a Twitch on the enemy team in their match.

#You earned my up vote [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

saltranFeb 8, 201816 votes

I hope some Rioter gets wrecked by Zoe so she doesn't get meme nerfs.

Whip it goodFeb 8, 20182 votes

They can't get wrecked by Zoe when THEY play Zoe

GripaAviaraFeb 8, 20182 votes

"Damn, damage too low, i cant penta, lets make her sleep multi target"

AmenPersonFeb 9, 20184 votes

Do not worry brother Saltran, the heavens have parted to reveal meaningful change to our homeland.

Zoe [Context] Paddle Star (Q) Paddle Star no longer applies More Sparkles' damage to enemies past the first hit.

Spell Thief (W) Minions can no longer drop Teleport. Sleepy Trouble Bubble (E) [Removed Effect] No longer notes "When an enemy champion falls asleep, Sleepy Trouble Bubble's cooldown is reduced by 10/15/20/25/30%." "Removing Drowsy now prevents the affected target from asleep." "This includes effects such as Cleanse, Mikeal's Crucible, or Quicksilver Sash, as well as champion CC removals such as Alistar ult.

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 201818 votes

Too harsh of a nerf. Should be 20/30/40/50/60.

Twitch isn't even the best ADC. There's still 3 ADCs better than him: Tristana, Xayah, and Varus. Kog'Maw is probably still better than him.

HungryAngry2SPPFeb 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Too harsh of a nerf. Should be 20/30/40/50/60.

Twitch isn't even the best ADC. There's still 3 ADCs better than him: Tristana, Xayah, and Varus. Kog'Maw is probably still better than him.

Varus adc, really funny

Player3Th0masFeb 9, 201827 votes

Varus Guinsoos is going rampant lately

HungryAngry2SPPFeb 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Varus Guinsoos is going rampant lately

It feels meh to me. You can have bigger damage by buying normal items IE/stat shiv. Plus, you have to AA 6times before passive activates. And varus hasn't got any "active" AS steroid , so his passive is meh too

Nut on my ButtFeb 9, 201815 votes

{quoted}

It feels meh to me. You can have bigger damage by buying normal items IE/stat shiv. Plus, you have to AA 6times before passive activates. And varus hasn't got any "active" AS steroid , so his passive is meh too

It's the strongest right now after kog maw. You're not accounting for his W procs, ult, and base stats.

HungryAngry2SPPFeb 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daddy Issues,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wHvZshRY,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-09T02:27:26.949+0000)

It's the strongest right now after kog maw. You're not accounting for his W procs, ult, and base stats.

If you show me that new build and skill max order I'll give him a try. Maybe i will change my mind, but until then "MEH" [vlad-salute]

Sp33d Zer0Feb 9, 20181 votes

item 3124 item 3153 / item 3091 item 3085 item 3006 item 3140 I have been doing E - W - Q maxing in that order as well.

HungryAngry2SPPFeb 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wHvZshRY,comment-id=0008000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-02-09T20:51:57.652+0000)

/ I have been doing E - W - Q maxing in that order as well.

OK. But how about mana? Should i buy item 3508 or just try to dont waist it?

Draw My FursonaFeb 10, 20181 votes

Mana shouldnt be an issue since you're not Q spamming to poke with this build.

SpoofghoulFeb 10, 20181 votes

it lacks the AD and pen anyway

But i suppose you could grab manaflow band and/or biscuits for more mana

item 3153 item 3124 item 3085 seems to be the core of this build

You could technically build item 3153 item 3124 item 3091 + item 3142 item 3147

Sacrifice some of the aoe from runaans for more poke/hybrid pen

Sp33d Zer0Feb 10, 20181 votes

Don't need it. Just don't spam like a mad man.

Think of Varus as 3 forms.

Poke item 3147 item 3142 item 3004 Crit/Late game scaling item 3508 item 3085 item 3031 On hit/mid game item 3124 item 3153

Each one will play differently.

HäxelFeb 9, 20182 votes

the Witsend change is a nerf to Varus and Kog'maw, Forzen Mallet Change you could say is a nerf to Kog'maw aswell.

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20182 votes

Varus doesn't get Wit's End usually.

Wit's End is getting a net buff.

Max 30 MR steal from 25, +2 onhit damage, and -100 cost. Just take longers to stack, but they're very high AS so it's irrelevant.

HäxelFeb 9, 20184 votes

still 10 autoattacks for max stacks where range champions needed before 5 is a meaningfull diffrence.

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20181 votes

Rageblade stacks it twice as fast on people and these champions get about 2.5 AS, especially Varus.

HäxelFeb 9, 20182 votes

twice as fast was it before too. Still makes them stack twice as low as before with rageblade. And without Rageblade the diffrence is quite bigger. Also in League there exist some attackspeedcounter, for example item 3110 , item 3075 / item 3143 , Malphite e, etc. And with item 3085 you are definetly sure to hit a item 3082 user. Edit: Again about Rageblade, the stacking 2 times just comes at 6 ragebladeautos. At this moment a rangechampion had before normaly already wits end full stacked with 25mr steal, but now he will just have it stacked to 18mr and still 4 autos left (ragebladepassive makes it 2) for the remaining 12 mr.

PoskeFeb 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Varus doesn't get Wit's End usually.

But he does

Wit's End is getting a net buff.

Max 30 MR steal from 25, +2 onhit damage, and -100 cost. Just take longers to stack, but they're very high AS so it's irrelevant.

No its a nerf but what else could you expect from riot

None was building wits end except for rare irelia in season 3 till today. It finaly found its place for 2 champions... NERFED!

HäxelFeb 9, 20182 votes

hey, wait a minute. I said nerfed for range. For melee it is definetly better. Costs less, more magigresistanceshred and stacking faster , from stealing 5 mr per auto stacking 5 times to stealing 3mr per auto for range and 6 mr per auto for melee up to 30 mr. So melees need 5 autos for amx stacks (as before, but now with 5 more mr stolen) and range need 10 autos.

LOSINGISMYPRIDEFeb 9, 20182 votes

too harsh ? he only lose 40 damage . Its not the stack damage just saying . He will still three shot you .

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20181 votes

40 damage is a lot.

LOSINGISMYPRIDEFeb 9, 20182 votes

its only alot of you want to jungle with twitch . damage per stack are this mininum stack : (20 / 25 / 30 / 95 / 115 (+ 25% bonus AD) (+ 20% AP)) Max stack : ( 110 / 155 / 200 / 245 / 290 (+ 150% bonus AD) (+ 120% AP) )

So if you tell me 40 damage is a lot damn you might have a problem .

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20181 votes

40 damage is almost an auto attack early game.

Also huge nerf to his waveclear.

LOSINGISMYPRIDEFeb 9, 20182 votes

dude once you get hurricane i dont know wht you talking about this early game ? So you mean you play aggresive against a leona or taric bot lane ? Also since when you expunge with one stack ?

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20181 votes

So, 7000 gold? You buy Boots and IE beforehand.

Also, you'd usually do 1 auto and a 3-4 stack E to clear the wave. Losing 40 damage, a BF sword amount per auto, you would need a completely different combination to clear the wave.

LOSINGISMYPRIDEFeb 9, 20182 votes

Twitch isnt a dueling champ and only want to farm to get these item 3153 item 3085 item 3031 . Your max stacked expunge deal 330 (+ 150% bonus AD) + 108 true damage of his passive at lvl 9 instead of 370 . This is like a 15 % damage loss on his base ability damage . ABILITY BASE DAMAGE NOT THE STACK .

AirKingNeoFeb 10, 20181 votes

WHAT? YOU'RE SAYING I DON'T HAVE TO INTERACT WITH MY OPPONENT AND TRADE DAMAGE WITH THEM?

In what fucking world?

LOSINGISMYPRIDEFeb 10, 20181 votes

Youre so childish to downvote everything i say seriously . Anyways twitch is a stealth champ why would he want to trade ? You need to get the upperhand and put on those auto to have you stack for expunge so this is why you need to surprise them with your stealth and get more auto than them . Logically you wont stand still like a kog maw and drop those auto since they dont have the same play style .

AirKingNeoFeb 10, 20181 votes

Say something that isn't completely false or outlandish and I won't downvote. Pretty simple philosophy.

Stealth only gives 1 free auto before they can react. That's not 40 damage back.

LOSINGISMYPRIDEFeb 10, 20182 votes

So everything you dont agree is false ? Its not philosophy but a fact .

AirKingNeoFeb 10, 20181 votes

I disagree with Varus being overpowered because it's actually Rageblade, but I'm not downvoting them over it because he is overpowered with Rageblade.

PoskeFeb 9, 20182 votes

Twitch is a first champion in a game who created a strategy Double Resource farm strategy

Strategy is following

Twitch jungle with support mid/top

Twitch ends up taking entire jungle + top/mid wave

Why? Because twitch is the strongest champion with items so last -7 months or so I saw this strategy few times

Now perhaps in botlane the other mentioned carries are better but with this strategy twitch is strongest adc in a game

The nerf is to soft if anything

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20181 votes

Except Twitch doesn't actually do that, nor is it even viable.

Z3SleeperFeb 9, 20182 votes

i've actually been seeing it alot too. It's pretty damn oppressive to the lane that's being targeted.

Basically the laner never actually lanes and just follows Twitch around jungle, helping him clear it, then they go back to lane and try to get a kill on the laner. If they don't then they just farm the wave (without pushing it) and then head back to jungle.

Rinse and repeat. It's actually extremely easy to get cheesed by this since you actually can't farm outside of your turret without getting easily shredded by Twitch when he shows up.

If you try to farm, you die. If you try to reset the wave, you die. If you try to ward river, you die. If you even step slightly outside turret, dead.

So far I've only seen it with Lulu top though. Probably cuz she's what makes it work.

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20181 votes

You're getting Kayle x Yi cheesed. Lol.

Z3SleeperFeb 9, 20181 votes

O yeah it's basically that.

Z3SleeperFeb 9, 20182 votes

For the sake of nerfing jungle Twitch pubstomping, I approve of the PBE change.

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20182 votes

Twitch jungle isn't relevant.

Z3SleeperFeb 9, 20181 votes

Did I trigger a Twitch main?

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20182 votes

I'm a Kayle main lol. You're basically saying, "Hehe, if I say I've triggered this main everyone will know I've invalided his argument."

Z3SleeperFeb 9, 20182 votes

Did I trigger a Kayle main?

no to toxicFeb 8, 20183 votes

This is the kind of nerf where everyone is complaining about Velkozs ult cooldown and dmg, so they nerf his base ad by 5.

Pommel KnightFeb 8, 201810 votes

This is huge, his passive stacks 5 times so this is 40x5 nerf to his dmg and it;s aoe.

no to toxicFeb 8, 20182 votes

It will make his laning phase suck, wich it always did. But you will still have a Twitch run around and kill your team by running behind them and popping ult. Unless you wanna tell me how much Twitchs E made you lose so many teamfights.

Pommel KnightFeb 8, 201811 votes

What the fuck do you think did 400 dmg per person, which is 2000 dmg on the whole team on 1 rotation if he stacks all 5.

They literary halved his dmg lvl 9+, to 200 dmg per 5 stack one single target to 1000 dmg for whole team with 5 stacks.

TheSandQratorFeb 9, 20182 votes

Nnno they didn't cut it by half. Not in the slightest. Also, his passive has a cap of 6 stacks.

He's going to do 40 less damage per person compared to before, regardless of how many stacks they had, when Contaminate is maxed out.

A fully-stacked Contaminate on the entire enemy team is gonna still do a lot of damage. Just 200 less than before. Not half.

Old damage: 5 x (290 (+150% Bonus AD) (+120% AP)) [1450 + 750% Bonus AD + 600% AP] New damage: 5 x (250 (+150% Bonus AD) (+120% AP)) [1250 + 750% Bonus AD + 600% AP]

What this is going to hit is the damage done to people clipped by one, maybe two of his shots. After that the difference becomes comparatively much less different. Also they'd have taken a lot of damage from the autoattacks anyway.

He's gonna do less in a hit-and-run, so he'll have to commit one whole more autoattack to get closer to his previous damage. A shocking concept, I know. An ADC taking four autoattacks to kill you instead of three.