"Oh, we removed DFG because it was adding extra burst to already bursty champions!!"

TeemoXNidalee··115 votes·7,818 views

item 3152

158 Comments

Lux Lux77 votes

What about "We discontinued work on Replays since we couldn't do x, y, z" or "Sandbox mode will force players to practice there instead of actual games so we're not gonna release it"?

What about "Dynamic Q is a great queuing system for Ranked, so we're implementing it as the main Ranked matchmaking"?

They make mistakes from time to time (we all do), but they're trying to correct themselves. I find it a very good thing :P

Hextech Gunblade, Hextech GLP-800 and Hextech Protobelt-01 are all interesting items with interesting effects, which adds more to the champion's kit than just "straight out more damage". ^^

Vistha Kai5 votes

They make mistakes from time to time (we all do), but they're trying to correct themselves. I find it a very good thing :P

If everybody would try to correct their mistakes like Riot does, every economy in the world would collapse at least 1000 years ago.

legionnaire996 votes

? At the beginning of S6 roit was getting the "it's our game" mind set At the middle they got scared. At the end it the most balanced and fun I ever seen it ( be perfect if the put fiora back :(

Vistha Kai6 votes

At the end it the most balanced and fun I ever seen it

You have a twisted idea of "balance" and "fun".

legionnaire993 votes

1st league will never be perfectly balanced like every other game.

And what isn't fun right now?

DKM Bismarck2 votes

What isn't fun? Cassiopeia Syndra Brand Viktor Anivia Orianna item 3116 item 3027 item 3152 For example, some of this.

legionnaire991 votes

Umm cass viktor brand = one idem so item 3116 1 thing that's broken Anivia I hate also orianna. But that 2 out of 136 or 138 so for a game that's will never be balanced that's ok. Syndra ?

DKM Bismarck1 votes

Cass and Viktor have been consistent balancing issues since S4 and both have had 2 reworks since then and their core issues are still the exact same, neither have ever been fun to play vs either. Syndra is insanely strong right now, she power crept. It's true, Talon, Zed, Yasuo, LB counter these champs, but to need to rely on champs who get totally outscaled by third item anyway, what's the point in trying to use them vs those champs ? (Yasuo is the exception he scales as well as they do.)

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

I mean when Riot buffs a champion like 3 times in a row they are bound to be OP. "Let's buff Syndra's burst by a 20% ratio and make her level 5 W into E a 1100 range unavoidable stun with 3+ balls with 0 nerfs elsewhere what is the worst that could happen?!" Also, nerfing almost all of her bad match ups made her even more annoying to deal with.

DKM Bismarck1 votes

Yeah, honestly something has got to be done about Syndra.

DJMason884 votes

Yasuo Zed Katarina Akali Ekko Leblanc Talon Countered.

General Theritt3 votes

Yasuo : Congratu-fricken-lations you blocked Projectiles, now how will you deal with with AoE splashes and MORE projectiles, and that nice long 20+ cooldown early on. Oh, and remember, you don't have easy access to minion waves in teamfights so good luck if you don't have open slash targets and no knockups to transfer to. You can outplay really hard, but you can also flop really hard. He's both insanely OP and not even that good at the same time due to his sheer reliance on skill, making him your new god or that one annoying guy who keeps asking if you want his fire mixtape. Zed : For all the b!tching that people do, this guy really isn't that bad considering you only get to burst down one guy. Yes he can dive into an opponent team, kill a priority target (if you're lucky that is) and get the hell out, but honestly it's extremely frustrating to deal with even if you can port around due to consistent Mage CC, the item literally built to counter assassins item 3157 and the fact that you are more reliant on just bursting them before they can react, so you have no sustained teamfight damage if you blow your rotation and your opponent lives. Katarina : I mean.... Cooldowns ain't a problem if you can get kills... but... Your Shunpo ain't up forever and zhonya's still exist, and Aegis makes your life a living nightmare considering it can just eat an ultimate if timed correctly. Also, you have 1 escape rather than anything, so if you screw up your reset you're even more worthless than a support vs a 10/0 ADC if you're behind. Akali : Tbh actually not much I can say. pretty balanced overall until she hits her god deletion phase midgame and then becomes a one trick assassin that relies on her dashes which BY FAR has the most outplay potential besides yasuo. But she also once again can be easily countered by correcting a build path and her invisibility is only that. Invisible. Early on you are a glorified damage sponge to midlane mages that can delete you, and Cassiopeia is a nightmare for you since she just shuts down ALL mobility you have an reveals you thanks to her ult stun and poison tick noise. Ekko : Did you... did you just? DID YOU JUST MENTION THIS GUY AS AN ASSASSIN? triggered but in all cases full AP ekko is pretty rare for assassin, and he was overloaded, but ult is down and you ain't got no convergence? Child you have a dash and a blink, and I can guarantee you if you don't have ult that mage is going to destroy you in one rotation. Also, you're still melee evne with timewinder, so you have to be 1. A god at dodging skillshots and dealing with AoE and targeted control and 2. High AP burst enough to delete them before zhonya... once again... Leblanc : She's a mage assassin. Like, a true MAGE ASSASSIN. She's ridiculous for burst early on and that's what wins her games. I'd put her back in the mage category, but yeah, probably the best counter to any squishy mages since your burst makes Zhonya's a do or die if you don't rush it. But she's a mage assassin, and not melee. So I give you the credit, but eh. Talon : "Only in this matchup" - Brickyorchid8. Its true. Talon is a feast or famine depending on his matchups. Yes you can always outplay, but if you're that skilled at talon then chances are you are either a main of him or you just have played him for such a long time its become natural. He's no true mobility. You can teleport but you have a GUARANTEED exit location unless you ult, meaning THEY KNOW WHERE YOULL END UP rather than you being able to reposition. And while it is fast, I feel Talon's movement is a lot slower compared to the other assassins, and a Zhonya's end talon's reign of terror as AD carries can predict his movement really well, and mages can set up their CC. I've played Talon against Lux, someone who he can counter, and she demolished me if I even messed up my combo by a hair because she knows my exit path. Always behind. He'll rip you a new one with his blades, or just slap you with a knife until you die properly.

Final verdict: item 3157 needs an AD version or something to that effect for Assassin's/ AD carries where it does a big anti-invulnerability burst regardless of the effect or let assassin's deal lowered damage through it. It's atrociously strong for mages since it gives them that safety, and unless you're yasuo or Akali or LeBlanc you do not have consistent damage because your rotations are meant to delete, and if you can't carry that out you flop horrendously. I lost an entire Zed game because I simply couldn't counter Syndra because even if you consider all her abilities, predict all of them, If she still has zhonya my burst was instantly negated. and the item provides good AP too, which is absolutely ridiculous considering it has an anti-Assassin ability mixed in. The counterpart to Zhonya's would technically be item 3156 but then it only protects one solid burst and is triggered by TAKING damage, something you never needed for Zhonya's.

I'm not ranting because "Mages OP" but right now they are just too well suited and outdo most assassins. There's a reason why the world stage has seen so little assassins midlane. They simply cannot compete with mages right now due to how good mage items can burst an opponent down similar to an assassin, while providing good movement (i'm pointing my finger at you item 3152 ) and while balanced its too reliable and honestly so good even if you're not a primary mid-lane mage Kennen

DJMason882 votes

I didn't say Yasou or Ekko were assassins, did i? I was stating champions that go mid that are good against immobile mages (or, the ones that guy said were OP) You also complained about Zhonyas... why? It has 2 minute cd, so just get it off and when you have your ult back up a minute later then kill them. You basically complained about there being counter play to assassins and fighters/slayers/skirmishers. Also, you want an Assassin item that protects you against mages you cant kill? item 3139 item 3026

Flashes2 votes

Don't forget that if a tank item is needed, banshee's veil works ok too.item 3102

doombotMECHA36 votes

funnily enough, every economy from 1000 years ago has, in fact, collapsed. often multiple times.

Sariat14 votes

And ours has only been running for ~250 years.... HMMMMMMMM it might be about time...

The Blue Rajah7 votes

The Great Depression would like a word with you

Flashes5 votes

As well as 2008

Woodakoodashooda46 votes

It took Riot an entire year to realize that DQ was a bad idea.

It took Riot a minimum of 3 years to realize that a Sandbox Mode is a good idea.

It took Riot almost an entire season to address complaints about the Jg two years ago in which only Lee and J4 could manage it.

It took Riot at least a year to address how unbelievably broken Rengar was in his previous state in which he one shot an ADC at full health while the support could do nothing but stand there and watch.

Riot addresses its community as though we're children who don't know any better and they're the adult who knows better.

Rarely do they apologize and it takes them far too long to correct their mistakes after they do issue one.

They've openly admitted to how disjointed they are in accomplishing anything, having expanded from an independent gaming company back in 06 to a global corporation.

The positive in all of this is that they are trying to become more responsive to the community again and have started to actively address our questions, concerns, and complaints.

FioraWillCarry72 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vyZ8U7Tx,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-10-17T19:39:59.716+0000)

Riot addresses its community as though we're children who don't know any better and they're the adult who knows better.

Do you even read some of the shit people post here every day ? I don't blame Riot.

Nilok4 votes

Because some of them are children. That does detract from people making insightful comments that often get ignored or brushed aside.

Sassmast3r8 votes

I suppose I agree with you, but that doesn't excuse them from their complete lack of responsiveness on here. The best we can get on the boards from them is a Rioter (whom has no actual connection to the post they're choosing to leave a comment on) giving us an apology or a feel-good encouragement in which they assure us that they are working on the problem(s) at hand. They make statements such as: "I don't work with this area so I can't exactly explain this, but I think...", "I'm not sure this groups particular reasoning behind their decision, however I can say that...", etc.

I'm not mad at these Rioters; praise God they have the time to acknowledge the community (or at least a small portion of it). I'm rather disappointed that each subcategory of employees at Riot (The coders, the splash artists, the marketers, etc.) does not have a few designated "representatives" that work to represent their groups publicly. Where is the head of the animations department to explain to me that they acknowledge the problem with, let's say Diana's AA animation, and that they are working on a fix? Where is the head of the splash artists telling me that they recognize the community's (or at least the small portion of the community that the boards is comprised of) disappointment with the new Fiora splash and that they are going to work on it so as to ensure it matches the quality of the other splashes?

All I have ever seen on here (aside from the occasional acknowledgements from Meddler) are sporadic and profuse apologies from Rioters, many0--- lacking the credibility to be able to say what truly needs to be said in response to the problem(s) at hand.

Serika Zero4 votes

go to reddit, even riot doesn't take this boards seriously the only thing they are talking about is reddit, even the casters at worlds only mention reddit

that's riot's respect for their own official forums and their playerbase

ForeverLaxx2 votes

This is because Riot believes that Reddit is some kind of replacement for their own official forum. It's sickening.

Nurgle Prophet4 votes

{quoted}

This is because Riot believes that Reddit is some kind of replacement for their own official forum. It's sickening.

If people act like children they should expect to be treated like children.

There's a reason Riot addresses people like Malicious Metal or Tides of Blood and outright ignores most other popular/vocal voices in the boards community like HateDaddy or Hashinshin.

The fact Reddit of all places is a better feedback and community gathering place than the official boards speaks much much more about the boards themselves than it speaks about Riot

ForeverLaxx1 votes

You mean that the developers abandon their own boards in favor of what amounts to nothing more than a "fan site" and you're actually blaming the playerbase?

Oh, and they "address" MM because he strokes Riot off at every opportunity and supplies nothing more than feelings about changes with a reassuring "I'm sure Riot will figure out these problems, guys!" Nothing MM says is of any importance, which is likely why Riot makes sure to notice him.

Nurgle Prophet1 votes

{quoted}

You mean that the developers abandon their own boards in favor of what amounts to nothing more than a "fan site" and you're actually blaming the playerbase?

Oh, and they "address" MM because he strokes Riot off at every opportunity and supplies nothing more than feelings about changes with a reassuring "I'm sure Riot will figure out these problems, guys!" Nothing MM says is of any importance, which is likely why Riot makes sure to notice him.

And in a post alone we can understand the problem.

Being respectful = stroking Riot off Suggesting his own changes but usually adding the extra that the game developer probably knows what they're doing = Implied uselessness Constant respectful intervention during the rework of his champion = no importante.

People like most of the boards community have always been shunned from group based discussion since the dawn of Green polítics. There are many ways to get your point across without being an insufrable prick about it.

And you think you know frustration boy? If you want to know what truly ignoring the community is step right up to the lore rework. But of course Riot won't listen when the culture of spiel and bile was installed in full force.

There's always two sides of the story. The devs abandones their own boards because it's their job to develop a game, not to deal with the needless disrespectful bullshit this place produced since the old forums. Again, there are ways to comunicate with Riot without sounding like a petulant child, and Riot will choose the path of feedback that means dealing with the lesser bullshit

ForeverLaxx1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nurgle Prophet,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vyZ8U7Tx,comment-id=000100010000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T08:55:17.265+0000)

boy?

It's time to go to bed. You're clearly in over your head here.

Nurgle Prophet1 votes

{quoted}

It's time to go to bed. You're clearly in over your head here.

It's a common expression from where I'm from. Get over yourself

Battlecast Sona2 votes

it's almost like all people do on the boards is bitch, whine, and circlejerk about topics that aren't even worth discussing

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Elikain1 votes

Reddit is a much bigger community than here. It's a place where literally a subreddit for anything exists. These forums aren't as popular as that and i don't see how can they force the community to move. It's a preferred environment people chose to communicate from and it's not Riot's fault for that.

I guess people figured out that they don't want to be in different places when wanting to get information but they'd rather just switch a subreddit. And Riot devotes the most attention to the place where people chosen to communicate the most from and they are also here and on Twitter.

Serika Zero1 votes

you can find more information from rioters on their tweeter, on their ask fm, and on reddit than ON THEIR OFFICIAL FORUMS AND OFFICIAL WEBSITE.

that's the problem. A lot of information is given on 3rd party websites, not on OFFICIAL ONE(S). I don't care its more popular or not.

This is like USA going to Canada and having their government building and all official stuff happen from Toronto. While keeping radio silence in Washington and so on. Its like Russia moving their "official base" in germany, while leaving Moskov to random employees that check like twice per month.

Elikain1 votes

Reddit is the preferred site people chose to go to. No one is forcing them out of the official League sites but if that's where the party's at, Riot is there to answer the questions as the majority of people go there.

I don't use ask.fm, reddit, facebook or twitter. I browse the boards. There's a lot of information here as well.

Serika Zero1 votes

so, if the students of your school/university would rather go to the park or mall, should the adults running that place move their hq and most announcements there?

Elikain1 votes

Your analogy isn't correct. Riot doesn't have to more their HQ anywhere. People have chosen reddit because it's a hub and they can look up any information they want via subreddits that interest them.

Riot can simply deliver their information to League's subreddit digitally and they are pretty active there, as there are much more people there than there are here. They still don't neglect us on any platform. They answer the questions on any site in their own free time. This activity isn't in their job description at all, they do it because they want to do it.

And they do update all the things on their site, as PBE is the place where changes go first. Some early stuff goes to Dev Corner and is up for a discussion and iteration before it gets to PBE as well.

Serika Zero1 votes

the HQ for posting information in a school is: school website, school board that its either inside the school or ~10m outside the school building

my annalogy is correct. rito goes to the mall and posts it there. and just because 'most students go to the mall' is not a valid answer.

when my friends at university want to check what grades they got in exams they either: a) go to the building and look where the grades are being displayed or b) wait a few days and check online

sry, riot is one of the few and only company/institution in the world that takes their official business elsewhere. And that's just bad business conduct. Yet you, and a lot of other people are fine with it. Which is the main thing that amazes me. How can you approve and even excuse such an unacceptable behavior. I would get it if it were an indie company making barely 100k $ per year. But its not that. As for site upgrades, just go check euw and eune websites, go check any of the changes that happened in the last 6 months, you would see ooooooooooooold information

japhib16 votes

GIve them a break, guys. They are successfully running a game that has 100+ million (and counting!) players every month. That takes an incredible amount of work and coordination. The fact that this is THE most popular computer game in the world speaks to their foresight and hardworking character.

Just the cost of maintenance for this huge of a program is pretty amazing. The fact that they still innovate as much as they do, and keep the game fresh and the meta always changing, is awesome. They are rivals in size to companies like Apple and Walmart, and do you see those companies actively trying to participate in online forums and respond to every customer request? That's not really something that any huge company does, so I'm not sure why you expect Riot to try to cater to everyone's whims. They're doing a dang good job of catering to the vast majority.

sta supra3 votes

{quoted}

GIve them a break, guys. They are successfully running a game that has 100+ million (and counting!) players every month. That takes an incredible amount of work and coordination. The fact that this is THE most popular computer game in the world speaks to their foresight and hardworking character.

Just the cost of maintenance for this huge of a program is pretty amazing. The fact that they still innovate as much as they do, and keep the game fresh and the meta always changing, is awesome. They are rivals in size to companies like Apple and Walmart, and do you see those companies actively trying to participate in online forums and respond to every customer request? That's not really something that any huge company does, so I'm not sure why you expect Riot to try to cater to everyone's whims. They're doing a dang good job of catering to the vast majority.

Wow ive been trying to say somthing like this yet always stopped because i could never word it correctly

Well said well said

ModCaptainMårvelous27 votes

See, there are major differences.

  • Protobelt isn't raw AP. DFG was.
  • DFG's actives was far burstier on a single target (15% Max HP + 20% Increased Magic damage) vs. protobelt.
  • DFG was point and click instant burst. Protobelt is a dash + projectile that requires you to hug your enemy.
  • Protobelt's power is also in its movement. DFG is pure burst.

I'm not saying protobelt isn't kinda crazy right now but DFG was far more problematic than protobelt is.

AirKingNeo1 votes

DFG was it's active, so it protobelt.

Protobelt's power is in being a point-blank shotgun, not a movement effect like it should be.

ModCaptainMårvelous8 votes

And you have to sacrifice something to get that point-blank-shotgun effect (Your safety from range and hitting all your pellets.)

DFG -had- no such weakness. 750 range point-and-click. There was no thought to using it and no risk. It was an active that you could tack onto any spell rotation to thoughtlessly gib someone because it increased magic damage taken on top of 15% of your max HP in magic damage.

You can tone down Protobelt's power and still make it useful. You can't tone down DFG's power reliably.

Cryo0024 votes

You forgot about item 3147

BakedLotion4 votes

{quoted}

You forgot about item 3147

Don't even know why you're getting downvoted. It's not like Zed or Talon doesn't already 100-0 you lmfao.

AninLegions7772 votes

Zed can 100-0 Ahri, Anivia, Syndra? Argue this and make my evening funny.

Cryo009 votes

He actually can 100-0 all of them.....especially if he builds item 3156 which he should be if he is against AP. All of them can 100-0 a zed as well this goes both ways.

Catastrop2 votes

Well he could, he just needs to outplay them, the same goes for the champions in question as well.

AninLegions7773 votes

Mediocre item. Stay a mile away from it if enemy has more than one tank.

Tis a nice day2 votes

Yet prior to its release people were saying it was the most broken item in the game.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Well because 90% of the boards community and the community in general is bronze to gold. Should explain why.

Penta Penguin16 votes

You can't be serious

I mean really

DFG was a full-AP item one of the "big three" including Rabaddon and Zhonya, before the Zhonya nerfs and the addition of Luden's

Belt gives you some AP, some HP, and conditional damage rockets

DFG was literally like 120 AP, point-and-click "you deal more damage now", and fucking CDR. This directly favored burst champions that could slam their whole kit into your face during the DFG active

GLP-800 even has more AP than Belt

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